Costa Concordia SINKING

[rubrrick]

Rick, Concordia, and her sisterships do have stern thrusters. They're built into her keel. In conjunction with the bow thrusters, they can walk the ship sideways. Azipods are a completely different beast. They are the main propulsion for the ship, but are rotatable to provide steerage and act as very powerful thrusters.

 

I had just remembered that. Must be getting old, as the earlier ships required tugs to maneuver into dock, then bow thrusters came along, and then stern thrusters, elimination the use of tugs.

 

Thanks

 

Rick

[Silverado6x6]

 

This is a scene that is becoming very popular with older cruise ships, and that is lengthening them.

 

I am showing this as an illustration of what I believe is how the Concordia will be salvaged. Sliced into sections.

[galipemi]

I saw the following

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16575409

Where Rose Metcalf, part of the entertainment crew, speaks of her experience. At one point she talks of getting directions via ????inaudible

 

I would like your to hear from your or others who have worked as staff on cruise ships on the way that you, the staff, get your information during an incident. Is it via a pager?? or text message? Who gives those directions? Are those messages deleted? It could make for interesting/vital insight into the mis/information coming from those in charge.

 

 

Hi Oz,

 

Communication would depend on your role onboard. Many offices have mobile phones onboard for the sole purpose of communicating across departments. In an emergency, they would be used to disseminate information to various department heads. Since an evacuation is only possible (really) with the participation of the various hotel departments (we handle everything from searching cabins to make sure everyone is out, to fire crews to muster stations and boarding the life boats/rafts). These department heads in turn get the information to their teams. Once the abandon ship whistles are sounded, the crew have assigned stations to report to. Step one, down to your cabin (if possible) for warm clothes & your life jacket. Step two - to your assigned station. This could be the front office to get a briefing on what to advise passengers, this could be to various points around the ship to direct traffic, this could be direct to your muster station. All information the general crew gets is likely to come from their department head via the bridge or cruise director (who immediately reports to the bridge in any emergency).

 

Another source of info is the PA system below decks. The bridge does not have to send messages to the entire ship. Communication can be (and often is) limited to crew areas only. This would allow them to let the bulk of the crew know what is happening and how to proceed and this information would quickly (given the gossip system onboard) get above decks (and yes, slightly mangled since it's a game of telephone at that point).

 

As for alcohol - the rules allowed for officers and crew to drink as they saw fit. However, you could not ever be intoxicated to the point where you would be ineffective in an emergency (anything above 0.08 rings a bell as problematic) and were always subject to random drug & alcohol screenings. Further, any officer seen or reported drinking in the 2 (might have been 4?) hours prior to a shift on the bridge or engine room was pretty much toast and off in the next port. I never worked on NCL but have several friends who did. NCL does in fact allow drinking onboard for crew/officers, however there is no liquor - only beer/wine. They seem to feel this reduces the likelihood of incapacitating intoxication.

[IRL_Joanie]

..............

If others have similar plans it may be a good time to share with others.

I have discussed this with my hubby, after reading your original post on the Safety Kit and where to meet.

 

Since there are many times we are in Foreign Ports and might not be able to read/understand the language(s) we will be meeting up at the First Church we see. Everyone can recognize a church without a language barrier.

 

Just my thoughts on a post disaster meeting place.

 

Joanie

[SomeBeach]

The Scuba divers had found another body of a dead woman

 

So sad

 

Italian Coast Guard divers on Saturday found a woman's body in a corridor of a submerged section of the capsized Costa Concordia, raising to at least 12 the number of dead in the cruise liner accident.

Coast Guard Cmdr. Cosimo Nicastro told The Associated Press that the victim, who was wearing a life vest, was found during a particularly risky inspection of an evacuation staging point at the ship's rear.

"The corridor was very narrow, and the divers' lines risked snagging" on objects in the passageway, Nicastro said. To permit the coast guard divers to get into the area, Italian navy divers had preceded them, setting off charges to blast holes for easier entrance and exit, he said.

The woman's nationality and identity were not immediately known.

 

(from NBC)

[jopocop]

To marine experts in this forum, can you tell us lay people how long this ship would have floundered and sunk but for the ship being beached? Take into account the hole size and location and how water would spread in and up the ship levels.

 

Had the ship been stuck in deep water what was the approximate sinking time and describe how the sinking would have looked to observers.

 

How many more lives might have been lost in a sinking scenario?

 

Thanks for any and all opinions on that part of the disaster scenario that did not play out that night.

[astrocruises]

Many of the pictures I see seem to be of people in lifejackets waiting below deck for something...as I recall all my lifeboat drills have been on the open deck.

 

I've been on a number of cruises where the safety drill goes only to the muster station and not on deck. I've been told by ship's staff that it's because (1) in an actual emergency situation it may be hours before an abandon ship signal is given, and if the weather is bad it would increase the risk of exposure to be outside on deck that long, so they want you accustomed to thinking in terms of reporting to the muster station, and (2) in the case of an actual "abandon ship" your regular assigned lifeboat may not be available, and adjustments would be made at the time to fit the situation.

 

The BBC reports that the woman's body recovered at 1:30 this afternoon was wearing a life jacket and on Deck 4, but doesn't mention if it was at the muster station. At least five of the earlier bodies recovered were.

[IRL_Joanie]

Greta VanSusteren reported on the legal aspects of the rights of the passenger with a legal team on Fox News. It was reported that when the cruiser signs the agreement at check in, you waive your rights to file suit if you have a prob. on the cruise, and only required compensation from cruise line from possible damage or loss to your belongings is only $150.

 

I haven't looked at that cruise agreement in some time; could those two factors still be in place? even with Costa & Carnival?

 

Under normal circumstances, maybe. Under Gross Negligence I HIGHLY doubt these limitations would apply, no matter who is at fault.

 

Joanie

[dagmarnyman]

Graphic per National Post News (Assumes ship has rudder control and power to all thrusters).

 

 

If - if one only could reverse: I sailed those waters. If the Concordia meerly had waited another 10 seconds - the ship would have passed clear of the reef. The quick turn to starboard obviously caused midships to stern to touch and rip the hull. For a fact!

These huge ships have multiple GPS-systems. Unfortunately the person at the helmet might not have considered that 300 meters bis a big boat. So - 10 seconds! It´s all it took. Very unfortunately

[bobsig]

Under normal circumstances, maybe. Under Gross Negligence I HIGHLY doubt these limitations would apply, no matter who is at fault.

 

Joanie

 

Correct - all the waivers in the world do not waive your right to sue. Whether you prevail or not is another matter. I suspect most, if not all, judges would allow a case to be heard if gross negligence is involved.

[luckybogey]

If - if one only could reverse: I sailed those waters. If the Concordia meerly had waited another 10 seconds - the ship would have passed clear of the reef. The quick turn to starboard obviously caused midships to stern to touch and rip the hull. For a fact!

These huge ships have multiple GPS-systems. Unfortunately the person at the helmet might not have considered that 300 meters bis a big boat. So - 10 seconds! It´s all it took. Very unfortunately

 

As I understand this, the Captain was called to the bridge upon seeing Giglio lights. The Captain arrived, took the wheel and disengaged autopilot as well as other auto nav systems including collision avoidance charting software. He then was too slow to make the correction without slowing down.

 

I don't understand why they simply did not slow down when changing their track off the 278 turn. Where were all the other officers on the bridge doing? Why did not others see this? Where was the Nav officer? Why did not the software giving warning. Even on my small 30' sailboat, my track is clearly displayed.

 

Question: Is this common for a captain to take the wheel? Or does he normally simply give commands for a flyby? What is standard operating procedures for the captain piloting a flyby?

[gentlemancruiser]

BBC have reported that another body was found. A woman wearing a life jacket was found on deck 4. She is the 11th body to be recovered.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16666669

[jopocop]

To marine experts in this forum, can you tell us lay people how long this ship would have floundered and sunk but for the ship being beached? Take into account the hole size and location and how water would spread in and up the ship levels.

 

Had the ship been stuck in deep water what was the approximate sinking time and describe how the sinking would have looked to observers.

 

How many more lives might have been lost in a sinking scenario?

 

Thanks for any and all opinions on that part of the disaster scenario that did not play out that night.

[FrankNJ]

I totally agree and that's why I kept saying I don't know why people keep freaking out over the muster drill not happening yet. It really wouldn't have changed anything unless the ship hadn't listed, then possibly it would have made things more organized, but since it listed, then you can throw that all out the window.

 

Tell me , Have the airlines stopped doing that silly little oxygen mask demo yet ?

[wishful thinking]

BBC have reported that another body was found. A woman wearing a life jacket was found on deck 4. She is the 11th body to be recovered.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16666669

 

May her soul rest in peace and her family find courage. So very sad.

[Milaandra]

seemed to imply that once an SOS had issued and it was within the territorial and/or port authority waters, the Italian Coast Guard takes control of everything.

 

And that's backed up by the words of Mr. Obnoxious during the phone call.

[HelloHelloHola]

If - if one only could reverse: I sailed those waters. If the Concordia meerly had waited another 10 seconds - the ship would have passed clear of the reef. The quick turn to starboard obviously caused midships to stern to touch and rip the hull. For a fact!

These huge ships have multiple GPS-systems. Unfortunately the person at the helmet might not have considered that 300 meters bis a big boat. So - 10 seconds! It´s all it took. Very unfortunately

 

Thanks, makes sense to me. If the intention was to pass this close to that reef. Then might as well clear that reef before turning.

[Milaandra]

I want to know *why* the lifeboats were not launched ? .... that's about it for me.... why?

 

Am I right in assuming that you can't launch lifeboats when the ship is moving?

[IRL_Joanie]

I saw the following

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16575409

Where Rose Metcalf, part of the entertainment crew, speaks of her experience. At one point she talks of getting directions via ????inaudible

 

I would like your to hear from your or others who have worked as staff on cruise ships on the way that you, the staff, get your information during an incident. Is it via a pager?? or text message? Who gives those directions? Are those messages deleted? It could make for interesting/vital insight into the mis/information coming from those in charge.

 

On 18 September 2011, I was hosting a Cruise Critic Meet and Greet aboard the Holland America ms Zuiderdam in the Crow's Nest on Deck 10. This was a Vancouver, BC, Canada round trip, Inside Passage, to Alaska which began for most passengers the day before (17 September 2011)

 

In attendance were several Officers of the ship, to include the Captain, Captain Timmers.

 

We had a storm brewing off the coast and had been warned a couple of hours before by the Captain to expect some rough waters/seas. (I need to add that later in the cruise I discovered while talking with the Hotel Manager that ALL the Officers and Staff had Satellite phones and not cell phones because of the loss of reception with Cell phone towers.)

 

I wrote the following on a Thread that was Titled something to the effect of Almost live from the Zuiderdam during our cruise. This is what I posted of our harrowing experience during just ONE storm out of the 3 we experienced that week:

 

QUOTE: "Monday 19 September 2011

 

Well, it is now Monday 4:45 a.m., and I was unable to finish yesterday, post CC M&G, because of the very rough time that was had by 95 percent of the ship (including a large percentage of the crew and officers!!)

 

Our M&G started well enough, but by the forced end of it less than an hour later it was a total bust.....And I DO MEAN BUST!!!

 

We had such extreme seas that we were unable to pick up our Canadian Pilots as they were unable to fly into whatever point they fly into and then Pilot Boat out to meet the ship, so the Vancouver pilot had to stay onboard with us until we were able to pick up our Alaskan Pilot last night.

 

I was at the Crow's Nest at around 9:30 yesterday morning, with our M&G scheduled for 10:00 and all was almost completely set up, Appetizers, both hot and cold, beautifully carved fruits, Coffee, tea and water at the ready. Kees (pronounced Case) already there, overseeing everything, 2nd Head Chef (I will get his name today (He is a very sweet Indian gentleman who makes sure all of his staff takes good care of us *Got to love Holland America Line's Crew!!), The Event/Party Planner, Rene, her fiance the Cruise Director Shane were there as was a VERY DEAR old friend from our Nieuw Amsterdam cruise in November, Kenneth!! Kenneth came on board this past Saturday and I did not know it was he until he walked into the Crow's Nest and we immediately recognized each other and hugged like old friends meeting for the first time in years. ...Also there were The Public Relations Manager, the Head of House Keeping and the Chief Security Officer. Captain Turner was also in the Crow's Nest with his wife, but when all HELL broke loose only his wife stayed behind for just a couple of minutes. We never got the chance to have them introduce themselves to us or us to them.... Oh well....

 

Yes, you read the last paragraph correctly! All Hell broke loose aboard the ship at around 10:15 when we hit the roughest seas that even many of the Officers and Crew had ever seen or experienced in all their years at sea...Even Kees told me later that he was so seasick and he does not get sick............

 

The waves were so high and coming at us from the South and South West at about 8-10 (Can someone explain that for me please, that knows what they are talking about?? All I know is that normally these last 9 days, the seas have been at 2 or 3.) Kees informed me last night that the ship listed twice to 20 degrees both port and starboard and that the waves were coming up and over the bow. He said something about the bow being swamped *YIKES*

 

Right at 10:15 a.m., as we were getting ready to start the M&G and introduce all of the Officers, their phones started ringing and everyone started running (not literally, but...) Kees explained to me that they had emergencies to deal with and could he make one announcement and then he had to leave us. WE ALL understood that ship and safety was the first concern!! His announcement, JUST as the Truffles (one of our dessert appetizers) hit the floor literally, was that he wanted all of our names and stateroom numbers so that the ship could send us invitations to a Ship hosted Cruise Critic Only Cocktail Party - Question and Answer Session in the Piano Bar on Friday at 4:30.

 

There were 25 CC members in attendance and unfortunately I had to leave soon after the Officers did as I could not deal with the motion of the ocean by that time and did not want to become sick in front of everyone. From what I've been told, Butterfly Girl (In Real Life, Vicki) took over and managed quite well on my behalf (and this was/is her first cruise. WTG My New Best Friend!!)

 

By the time my hubby made it back down to our room the waves were so bad that he seriously contemplated getting out his cell phone and calling in a MAYDAY!! LOLOLOL!!! He collapsed on the bed and stayed there for at least 2 hours.

 

I do have to mention that not only were the barf bags out by the time he came down to the room, but Captain Turner also had half of the elevators shut down along with ALL outside decks. I tried to sit on my verandah in one of my chairs, I do better outside sitting and staring at the waves, but one of the times we listed to port I felt like I might be tossed over the aft port side, so decided the smartest thing was to literally crawl to the verandah door and be safe inside. I tend to think if I had not made it inside when I did, that next list, which came about 5 minutes later, would have made the headlines world wide as, "Passenger missing off of Holland America Ship in Alaska waters after attempting to host a Cruise Critic Party that was a Real Bust." And it would have been an accident, but who'd have known?? LOL

 

Apparently, shortly after I left the M&G, all of our Hot Appetizers hit the floor in the Crow's Nest and I believe it was right about then that our SMART CC members decided to retreat to the safety and beds in their staterooms.

 

The seas were back to their normal 2-3 by about 3 p.m. and we were able to go back into the Inside passage, Captain Turner had taken us out to sea and about 20 miles out into the Pacific for safety. He did make an announcement about 4 p.m. that the production show would be switched because of the danger to the singers and dancers and that the comedian would be performing instead. I think it was a very wise decision. Also announced was that we would not be going to Tracy Arm as we'd lost so much time battling our way through the storm and another that was going to be hitting us around 8 p.m. and would last until around 2 a.m. We are due to arrive in Juneau about 1/2 hour ahead of schedule today. As I type this now at 5:30 a.m. we are once again rolling a bit from port to starboard enough to make me a bit nauseated, and I do not get seasick!!

 

I am so glad that hubby and I did the cruise last week and I do feel sorry that those who've never done the Inside Passage before have missed so much of the beauty that we saw last week. But that is the way of Mother Nature."UNQUOTE

Our Captain kept us informed via the PA system as to what was happening and why, and most importantly, he kept us safe. For this I am very happy to say that I, while scared at the moment, am still happy to continue cruising, albeit, with more precautions and foresight in preparations than previously.

 

Joanie

[Loonbeam]

And as noted previous, the contract they signed precludes the class from being certified. This provision WILL be held up most likely as it doesn't prevent them from suing, just as a class and thus does not limit their right of recovery.

 

More than 100 passengers who were aboard the Italian cruise ship Costa Concordia say they're joining a class-action lawsuit seeking more than $15 million with Proner & Proner.

Each of the passengers would seek at least $154' date='660, with some planning to seek 10 times that amount, from Costa Cruises, the BBC reported. The passengers will seek compensation for medical care, loss of earnings and the psychological effects of the evacuation.

 

[left']

 

[/left]

[Loonbeam]

Not necessarily true. For the restrictions to be lifted it would have to be determined that the company (not the captain) was grossly negligent and that will be a high bar to reach.

 

What you are seeing now are 'settlement suits'. The objective is not to go to trial but to get the company to make an offer to settle to avoid bad press and extensive legal costs.

 

Under normal circumstances, maybe. Under Gross Negligence I HIGHLY doubt these limitations would apply, no matter who is at fault.

 

Joanie

[IRL_Joanie]

There didn't seem to be any coordinated organized effort by local authorities to aid in the evacuation. The passenger accounts all agreed that there was no authority on board directing the rescue. This accident took place within 30 or so miles from Rome and not in the middle of the ocean.

Read all of the official reports that have been released to include the Coast Guard Captain De Marco's recorded conversations.

 

Also look at the photos taken by loclals and other people. DEFINITELY local rescuers were activated and did one hell of a job in resuing those that they did!!

 

Joanie

[Milaandra]

My view is that there appeared to be no one taking charge for declaring 'Abandon ship' as he was ashore and only he can order it.

 

The captain wasn't ashore that early. Based on the suggested timelines, there were maybe 10 or 15 minutes between arriving at the shallow and the abandon ship order. I don't know why the delay...possibly to make sure the ship was at a full stop or couldn't go any further? Just a guess.

[kath00]

Once agains Costa tries to distance itself from this Rogue Captain, however I feel that they also are accountable in allowing the Captain to do these sail-bys previously without taking any action against him. He admitted by his own words that he had done it 4 times previously. They are as much to blame for this tradgic event.

 

rgds

:)

 

Completely agree. Hope people dont forget this in the months to come.

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

[cruiserfanfromct]

Is it possible the captain was trying to first and foremost save the ship? When the Concordia was safely lodged against the rocks did he believe that was the end of his duty as Captain thus abandoning ship? IMHO this would explain his actions. :confused: