Costa incident: Return to Professional Muster?

[Emilija]

"this, but all 3 of our carnival cruises out of san juan held muster the next morning due to its late departure time."

 

Late departure should not dictate time of muster drill. On the Pacific Jewel Oct. 2011 the departure was slated for 4 pm and the drill 1 hour before the departure. As it happened we didn't leave until 3am the next morning(while most were sleeping). The muster drill had been held 1 hour before the scheduled departure.

 

I must say, though, that this drill was not as professional as the one the previous year on a sister ship.

[Vanessa L]

i wouldn`t focus on the jackets. they are symbolic.

 

it`s the lack of attention that bothers me. you used to be able to hear a pin drop at these things. the only thing missing at them now is an open bar.

 

Absolutely agree. I was on the "duh" sailing of the Victory (maybe they say that at every muster drill on the Victory, not sure). But I was appalled at how many people were drinking, laughing, not paying one iota of attention to what was being said. DH and I did go back to the room and make sure the jackets were as they should be. But as many others have noted, in a real-life true emergency, there is absolutely no guarantee that panic and mayhem wouldn't prevail. I would like to say, after 40 some cruises that I would simply run to my room, get my jacket and head for the life boat but, I've never been on a sinking ship. I cannot tell you with any certainty what I would do exactly.

[H82seaUgo]

"this, but all 3 of our carnival cruises out of san juan held muster the next morning due to its late departure time."

 

Late departure should not dictate time of muster drill. On the Pacific Jewel Oct. 2011 the departure was slated for 4 pm and the drill 1 hour before the departure. As it happened we didn't leave until 3am the next morning(while most were sleeping). The muster drill had been held 1 hour before the scheduled departure.

 

I must say, though, that this drill was not as professional as the one the previous year on a sister ship.

 

i've since learned that maritime law states the drill must be conducted within 24 hours of sailing.

 

time to change the law.

[19snapshot]

All this talk of life jackets is sort of moot for the venue that the Concordia was in. The water is freezing. Hypothermia would kill you fairly quickly (relatively speaking). Floating around until you were picked up by a life boat doesn't work in waters that cold.

 

I too am saddened by this and will keep all involved in my prayers.

 

Good point. The early reports were that the first confirmed death was a 70 year old man whose heart stopped from the shock of hitting the "icy water". Hypothermia most likely would have been a huge concern. Still, more complete muster drills wouldn't hurt.

[big_duck]

i've since learned that maritime law states the drill must be conducted within 24 hours of sailing.

 

time to change the law.

 

That is kind of like saying flight safety briefings must take place within 1 hour of take off isn't it.

[Emilija]

Running aground in a well traveled route is a mortal sin. Cruise ships should NEVER run aground. Worst case scenario, stop and drop the anchor if the ship controls are compromised until repairs can be made. Since no distress call was sent the captain must have thought the situation was under control. His bad. The safety drill; I get irritated at the dumb @#%$# that laugh, talk, and pay no attention to instructions. Bringing the life vests (IMO) is unnecessary. Most cruisers are repeat. People should check them in their cabin and if a newbie put it on. This incident should be a wake-up call for a lot of folks.

 

That's and interesting statement "most cruisers are repeat"? To be a repeat cruisers you have to have been a first time cruises! a newbie! a person who is not familiar with life vests

[frito58]

The knee jerk reaction of course is going to be we need to do the proper drill. My thing is I want to know how well is the crew trained , I have said for years everytime we go to one of these things , yea right if there is a real emergency this 21 year old is going to calmy stand here and say this way folks. I doubt we will ever know , as it will only depend on the person and what and how they have grown up , no one hour training course is going to make someone put your life ahead of thier own.

[jmcancruise]

Haven't read the entire thread, but how about everyone gather in the theatre to watch a few clips of this disaster, and then announce muster. Perhaps then people will take it more seriously.

[ilovetexas]

Haven't read the entire thread, but how about everyone gather in the theatre to watch a few clips of this disaster, and then announce muster. Perhaps then people will take it more seriously.

 

Much like the videos they used to show us in Drivers Ed....

[msstarr22]

Carnival is the only line that I am aware of that has done away with the "professional" safety drills. The problem is that no matter how professional the drills are too many people are already drunk and don't pay a bit of attention.

 

If you want a proper safety drill do them before any bars open, otherwise they are a waste of time anyway. Also don't allow people with mobility issues on board. Heck if we are going to make it professional let's make everyone pass a fitness test before they can board the ship.

 

As an aside looking at the pictures in the hull of the Concordia I suspect that the deceased and missing were trapped below the water line and no amount of drills or anything else could have saved them.

 

So you are saying that anyone who isn't physically fit can sail. This means no one takes children, or has the family cruise, or the person who has saved their entire life can enjoy a cruise. Look around you not everyone is so fit that the human mind will not make them completely unsure of themselves in a crisis. Mobility is not the issue. These people become as much a priority as the smallest child. And everyone deserves to have as wonderful a time doing whatever it is that makes them happy.

[westview1]

Here is a thought, bring passengers on board in groups of 100, take them directly to an area set up to teach the procedures including the donning of lifejackets, point out that their actual muster station is on their S&S cards then turn them loose on the bars and buffet.

 

Definitely something to consider. Maybe they could have a crew members give demonstrations on how to put on the life jackets while everyone is waiting to board or right before you take your picture for your sail and sign card.

[H82seaUgo]

they just reported on cnn that the captain was off the ship before some passengers. (Barbie Nadeau)

 

now they are saying the captain has been arrested.

[Nanaimobound]

I agree with everyone that the true muster drill needs to return, and they need to conduct the drill as soon as possible once the last passenger is on board.

People who are determined to be inebriated before sail time will make sure they are regardless of what the rules are, besides, can you imagine the drinks sold in that time period before sail away? :rolleyes:

Adults are in charge of their own sobriety or lack thereof.

That doesn't mean the line should slack off in any way in implementing all safety measures.

[Vanessa L]

now they are saying the captain has been arrested.

 

Manslaughter and abandoning ship. Wow.

[gusandgidgetsmom]

I have always felt that muster drill should be done before the bars opened up. I have been to so many where there are drunk people falling over, talking loudly and quite frankly just being a pain. I am a person that attends each muster drill as if it were my first. I am platinum on CCL and have been on other lines as well. I hope that Carnival and other lines will go back to the original muster drills of the 80's. The crews were serious about safety and not having to spend their time quieting the misbehaving passengers.

[morrieb1]

Maybe now people will take the drill more seriously-- not trying to get out of it, or showing up in their bathrobes drinks in hand.

 

It's the same thing on airplanes-- no one listens to the instructions.

 

Everyone should take this a lesson-- both the cruiselines AND the passengers have responsibilities.

 

I think that's really what it comes down to. The cruise lines provide the information to the passengers - but it is up to us to listen and learn. I see no need to bring lifejackets to the drill as long as the use of the jackets is demonstrated by the crew - and having the drill in a lounge or restaurant doesn't trouble me either because I have an easier time paying attention when I'm not crushed in the back of a mass of other passengers on an outdoor deck especially in extremely hot/cold/wet conditions.

 

But I do think this shows that its important for the drill to be held before the ship leaves port. From whats been reported so far, it sounds as if there hadn't been a drill at debarkation so when the emergency happens people were confused about how to proceed.

 

You might be able to force people to attend the drill, but you can't force them to pay attention....about all you can do is hope the majority of passengers take the drill seriously. And chances are those who are already drunk by the time it takes place probably weren't going to pay attention even if they were sober.

 

Em

[Zoedokey]

Are that many passengers really that drunk by the time of the muster drill?

 

I stated on a previous thread that the drill should be conducted with everyone wearing life vests at your evacuation point. It is imperative, though, that crew be trained, trained and then trained some more. Crew on aircraft are very well trained about how to react in case of an emergency. They are trained to take charge, forcefully if necessary, to get people to comply to their orders and they are very sure as to what those orders need to be. Crew at sea should be held to the same standard.

[kerrytens]

The knee jerk reaction of course is going to be we need to do the proper drill. My thing is I want to know how well is the crew trained , I have said for years everytime we go to one of these things , yea right if there is a real emergency this 21 year old is going to calmy stand here and say this way folks. I doubt we will ever know , as it will only depend on the person and what and how they have grown up , no one hour training course is going to make someone put your life ahead of thier own.

I totally agree with you. I don't think any of us could say with certainty that we know how we'd react in this sad situation, crew included.

 

I also totally agree with Mr Pete, I do hope that the cruiselines bring back a more meaningful muster drill. No doubt all lines are now re-evaluating how this procedure will be done in the future ... and more importantly, working on ways to ensure that folks understand the need to pay attention.

 

My heart is breaking over this tragedy. So very sad.

[scomar]

There are many safety rules and procedures in place for ships, buildings any place there is a large gathering of people. Most of them are common sense. I bring this up to ask you to be as calm as possible in emergency situations. This will save your life faster then anything. My thoughts go out to the family of those who lost a loved on on Costa.

[rutgersgirl27]

Here is a thought, bring passengers on board in groups of 100, take them directly to an area set up to teach the procedures including the donning of lifejackets, point out that their actual muster station is on their S&S cards then turn them loose on the bars and buffet.

 

I like this plan. At the least, a smaller group is easier to shush.

 

I was thinking that if it is possible, perhaps cruise lines could have video information playing while passengers wait for check-in/boarding the ship, in addition to a formal muster drill that requires passengers to try on the life-vests. This way, even those who talk through the drills can have a chance at getting the information.

 

I also feel that drastic action should be taken for passengers who deliberately skip the drills. Take mandatory attendance and call names. Have a second drill for the no-shows. If they still don't show, then kick them off at the next port. It's a mandatory drill, not a suggested activity. At least then you can be sure that you are sailing with passengers who were instructed on what to do.

 

Being on a cruise ship can be wonderful. For sure, it's my favorite way to travel. But you are out on the ocean, and anything can happen. My prayers are with those passengers, crew and family.

[pe4all]

I still think passengers who skip muster should get a hefty fine for doing so. I also like the idea of them being put off at the next port.

[ninneman]

Unfortunately no matter how lax or tightly run the passenger musters are when the brown stuff hits the fan very little will be retained by the average passenger from one training. This is why professional crews train and train and train. Nothing is any use it unless it comes as second nature and this is just not going to happen with the average cruiser - whether they cruise once a year or once a month.

 

I do strongly disagree though with the life jackets being left in the room, they should always be fitted/tried on by each passenger. The crews training being maintained is the only thing that is going to help in a major incident.

 

So the next thing you will say is there should be no safety videos or briefings on airplanes. Passengers who care about their safety will retain this information if it's on a ship, train, airplane or a hotel.

 

BTW- I'm one of those people who counts the number of doors to an exit in a hotel. The number of seats to an exit on an airplane. That's because safety was drilled into me as an airline crew member. :)

[Ladysilver]

The knee jerk reaction of course is going to be we need to do the proper drill. My thing is I want to know how well is the crew trained , I have said for years everytime we go to one of these things , yea right if there is a real emergency this 21 year old is going to calmy stand here and say this way folks. I doubt we will ever know , as it will only depend on the person and what and how they have grown up , no one hour training course is going to make someone put your life ahead of thier own.

 

 

I like what you said here, and I TOTALLY agree. Unfortunately, the world is increasingly full of "me, myself, and I" people. Those people who would choose to help their fellow man are dwindling every day. They are angels in disguise. :)

[GlendaleCruiser]

Thank you for posting on this subject. I couldn't agree more!!

 

I get so irritated with people who nonchalantly walk in to the drill and chat like they are in a bar while they are there. I want to be able to hear the guide.

 

I make it my personal responsibility to know how to put a life jacket on and make sure everyone in my cabin knows, too. We check the map/instructions on the back of the door and physically walk the route to our lifeboat. I take a flashlight with me on every cruise and spare batteries. We know to grab our passports and money if we have time and our lives if we don't.

 

I am an experienced cruiser and not a pessimist (I would have made a good Girl Scout)

 

I hope those partiers don't expect me to save them when the time comes.

 

And don't get me started on the drill in the dining room where people put their hands all over the napkins, glasses and plates that others are expected to eat off of later....................

[GlendaleCruiser]

So the next thing you will say is there should be no safety videos or briefings on airplanes. Passengers who care about their safety will retain this information if it's on a ship, train, airplane or a hotel.

 

BTW- I'm one of those people who counts the number of doors to an exit in a hotel. The number of seats to an exit on an airplane. That's because safety was drilled into me as an airline crew member. :)

 

Glad I'm not the only one who does that. I count exactly how many seats I will need to touch and what direction to turn to get out the exit. I sometimes sit in the exit row and will throw anyone out the door before I exit that needs a push.