Concordia News: Please Post Here

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Is it within the realm of possibilities that the officers are simply telling the truth??

I never said they werent telling the truth, just that they are all watching out for themselves now. Its a case of everyone for themselves and dont worry about the flak or fallout...

 

Rgds

[MDSue]

I never said they werent telling the truth, just that they are all watching out for themselves now. Its a case of everyone for themselves and dont worry about the flak or fallout...

 

Rgds

 

I think the officers are making themselves look even more culpable. At what point do second or third in command decide that in the event that a distracted captain without his reading glasses crashes a ship into a rock and puts a gash in the ship that will most certainly sink the ship decide to override the orders of the captain and make a common sense decision for themselves? They simply should have refused to lie.

I can just imagine the judges thoughts when he asks the other officers if they knew the ship was sinking and they answer: "Oh yes, there is no doubt that the ship was sinking and sinking fast, but I was told to lie so I just told the Coast Guard that everything was fine." Judge:"What did you suppose was going to happen the the crew and passengers onboard?" Second in command: "Well, the safety of the crew and passengers was the responsibility of the captain, sir. It was not my job to worry about their safety. I did my job honorably because I followed the captain's orders exactly. The accident was not my fault."

Obviously this is just speculation on my part, of course, but their argument doesn't fly with me. They didn't crash the ship, but clearly took no actions to prevent the crash or save the passengers once the disaster unfolded.

The crusing industry and most certainly Costa cruiselines needs to have a policy in place where the safety of the ship and the passengers becomes more important than following the orders of an errant captain in extreme cases such as this one.

[CruisingMouse]

i think the officers are making themselves look even more culpable. At what point do second or third in command decide that in the event that a distracted captain without his reading glasses crashes a ship into a rock and puts a gash in the ship that will most certainly sink the ship decide to override the orders of the captain and make a common sense decision for themselves? They simply should have refused to lie.

I can just imagine the judges thoughts when he asks the other officers if they knew the ship was sinking and they answer: "oh yes, there is no doubt that the ship was sinking and sinking fast, but i was told to lie so i just told the coast guard that everything was fine." judge:"what did you suppose was going to happen the the crew and passengers onboard?" second in command: "well, the safety of the crew and passengers was the responsibility of the captain, sir. It was not my job to worry about their safety. I did my job honorably because i followed the captain's orders exactly. The accident was not my fault."

obviously this is just speculation on my part, of course, but their argument doesn't fly with me. They didn't crash the ship, but clearly took no actions to prevent the crash or save the passengers once the disaster unfolded.

The crusing industry and most certainly costa cruiselines needs to have a policy in place where the safety of the ship and the passengers becomes more important than following the orders of an errant captain in extreme cases such as this one.

 

 

love it!!

[CruisersNC]

I think the officers are making themselves look even more culpable. At what point do second or third in command decide that in the event that a distracted captain without his reading glasses crashes a ship into a rock and puts a gash in the ship that will most certainly sink the ship decide to override the orders of the captain and make a common sense decision for themselves? They simply should have refused to lie.

I can just imagine the judges thoughts when he asks the other officers if they knew the ship was sinking and they answer: "Oh yes, there is no doubt that the ship was sinking and sinking fast, but I was told to lie so I just told the Coast Guard that everything was fine." Judge:"What did you suppose was going to happen the the crew and passengers onboard?" Second in command: "Well, the safety of the crew and passengers was the responsibility of the captain, sir. It was not my job to worry about their safety. I did my job honorably because I followed the captain's orders exactly. The accident was not my fault."

Obviously this is just speculation on my part, of course, but their argument doesn't fly with me. They didn't crash the ship, but clearly took no actions to prevent the crash or save the passengers once the disaster unfolded.

The crusing industry and most certainly Costa cruiselines needs to have a policy in place where the safety of the ship and the passengers becomes more important than following the orders of an errant captain in extreme cases such as this one.

 

Saying the Captain gave the order to lie won't relieve those officers of the consequences of lying.....but if that is what happened that night then that's how they have to answer the questions....truthfully. They're actually implicating themselves by admitting they knowingly lied.....even if ordered to do so....and I would think that there will be consequences for them.

[Max49]

I think they will say none of them knew for sure the seriousness of the damage to the ship, and then when Schettino suggested they would beach the boat and let it sit on bottom, they may have thought he was a wise man and that is why he was captain.

I mean, come on, how many ships that have just crashed into the rocks putting a 160' gash into it, do you think these subordinates have been on? My bet, is 'never' , they don't have schools for this real stuff.

In hindsight, I bet they would all do something different.

[nealstuber]

What an interesting article! Other officers seem quite justified in their "throwing of knives into the back of Schettino"

The knives have to land in his back because he is still running away. :rolleyes:

[Rochesterboatingdotcom]

Good article on the possible salvage - looking more likely that they will cut her up rather than trying to refloat.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=raise-it-or-raze-it-how-will-italian-cruise-ship-be-salvaged

[TheBestIsYetToCome]

I think they will say none of them knew for sure the seriousness of the damage to the ship, and then when Schettino suggested they would beach the boat and let it sit on bottom, they may have thought he was a wise man and that is why he was captain.

I mean, come on, how many ships that have just crashed into the rocks putting a 160' gash into it, do you think these subordinates have been on? My bet, is 'never' , they don't have schools for this real stuff.

In hindsight, I bet they would all do something different.

 

It's one thing to say "At my level of training and experience, it was not possible for me to grasp the seriousness of the situation. As such, I relied upon the Captain and his orders to bring the ship and passengers to safety." It's quite another thing to say "We gave information to the Coast Guard that I knew was a lie." (And they knew it was a lie - within a few minutes after impact, they had assessed three compartments as flooded. They knew they were not simply having a power problem.)

[MDSue]

It's one thing to say "At my level of training and experience, it was not possible for me to grasp the seriousness of the situation. As such, I relied upon the Captain and his orders to bring the ship and passengers to safety." It's quite another thing to say "We gave information to the Coast Guard that I knew was a lie." (And they knew it was a lie - within a few minutes after impact, they had assessed three compartments as flooded. They knew they were not simply having a power problem.)

When I watched one of the crew being interviewed on one of the specials (can't remember which one), she said that another crew member told her early on that the ship was going to sink because of the amount of flooding in the compartment. This makes me think that if a lower level crew member from the engine area knew the ship was sinking then the higher-ups must have known early on also. My guess is that they were all hoping that they could safely ground the ship before that happened and perhaps that's why they didn't order the abandon ship earlier.

I'm sure we are all quite eager to find out how such a breakdown of communication and chain of command could happen on such a huge/modern cruise ship.

I just know that if my superior ordered me to lie about a situation as dire as this, I would have refused. I mean, obviously the coast guard is going to find out sooner or later- you can't hide a 160 foot gash nor a sinking ship.

I can understand how complete and total shock could render one person useless and incapable of command, but not the whole fleet of officers.

I do hope the whole truth comes out one day- it will be a lesson in psychology.

Edited March 6, 2012 by MDSue

[greg-nc]

Note - this Financial Times artilce is only available to subscribers directly at the FT site. However it is available to everyone who does a Google News search on "Costa crew facing alleged settlement pressure".

 

Costa crew facing alleged settlement pressure

 

Highlights:

 

If crew members on the Concordia want any further work with Costa then they must forfeit their right to claim psychological and physical distress from the wreck and accept a settlement offer that would cover personal money lost on board, personal items lost – up to a maximum of $3,750 – and pay for the remainder of their contracts.

[MDSue]

Note - this Financial Times artilce is only available to subscribers directly at the FT site. However it is available to everyone who does a Google News search on "Costa crew facing alleged settlement pressure".

 

Costa crew facing alleged settlement pressure

 

 

I wish I could access the article- when I google search the article- it just takes me to the Financial Times link which won't allow access without registering. How did you get to the link?

[greg-nc]

I wish I could access the article- when I google search the article- it just takes me to the Financial Times link which won't allow access without registering. How did you get to the link?

 

I got the link via a Google News Search... this is usually the best way to get access to articles from FT and some other publications. They allow anyone coming directly from Google access to the article. My link will not work directly except for FT subscribers.

 

Note that if you are in the UK.... you may be blocked to the FT article even via Google.

[GranysT]

Note - this Financial Times artilce is only available to subscribers directly at the FT site. However it is available to everyone who does a Google News search on "Costa crew facing alleged settlement pressure".

 

Costa crew facing alleged settlement pressure

 

Highlights:

 

If crew members on the Concordia want any further work with Costa then they must forfeit their right to claim psychological and physical distress from the wreck and accept a settlement offer that would cover personal money lost on board, personal items lost – up to a maximum of $3,750 – and pay for the remainder of their contracts.

 

Well that kind of sucks for the crew. A max of $3750 plus pay for rest of contract. That would probably be around $200 per mo, or even less. They lived for their tips, didn't they? Even so, I'll bet most of them will take it, because it's better than nothing. :(

[Max49]

It's one thing to say "At my level of training and experience, it was not possible for me to grasp the seriousness of the situation. As such, I relied upon the Captain and his orders to bring the ship and passengers to safety." It's quite another thing to say "We gave information to the Coast Guard that I knew was a lie." (And they knew it was a lie - within a few minutes after impact, they had assessed three compartments as flooded. They knew they were not simply having a power problem.)

 

I'm certainly no expert and you may be right; however seeing the video on the bridge after the collision, they all looked pretty stumped and did not know what to do. Translated, I thought some one theorized (to the capt , I guess) that he thought there may be massive amounts of water coming in and flooding the electronics of the ship. I believe it was about this time that Schettino was asking how deep the water was and decided to try to get to shallow water and beach the boat. I did'nt see any monitors hanging showing the 3 compartments flooding. It's hard to believe on a modern ship that they din'nt have technology to let them know immediately how severe the damage was but I believe at that time they may really have thought "they had an electrical problem, for sure".

I also noticed that all the bridge personell stayed at their positions. Someone asked 'what should we do, general emergency?', when Schettino finally said 'wait, abandon ship', they then flew out of there. That shows me that either they had respect for the capt. or they knew they would be in big trouble for insubordination, disrespect, mutiny or what ever.

If Schettino told them to tell the coast guard they had an electrical problem and they took it on their own to tell the CG they were sinking, and the ship did not sink but safely beached itself, I bet that person would be out of the entire cruise industry.

I don't think that they absolutely knew the seriousness of the situation at the time they told the CG they had an electrical problem and the Captain of the ship is "the Captain" chosen by their employer.

I absolutely don't think Schettino deserves this credit after he smashed the ship into the rocks, but if the ship would have beached and stayed pretty much straight up, some people would be calling him a daredevil and a genius, I'd think he just turned his luck around , kinda like when he 'fell into the lifeboat'. He should have bought a lotto ticket in Giglio when he bought his dry sox.

[TheBestIsYetToCome]

Four minutes or so into the bridge video they had confirmation that three compartments had flooded, so they knew very early on that the situation was very, very serious. To clarify, someone physically assessed the situation and spoke to the bridge.

Edited March 7, 2012 by TheBestIsYetToCome

[judyzoo]

Good article on the possible salvage - looking more likely that they will cut her up rather than trying to refloat.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=raise-it-or-raze-it-how-will-italian-cruise-ship-be-salvaged

 

Interesting article; thanks for posting.

[kingcruiser1]

Headline from today's Repubblica:

"So I saved 1.2 million euros"

The business manager had the task to salvage the money from the coffers of the ship: "I threw the bag on the cloth of a boat"

 

http://firenze.repubblica.it/cronaca/2012/03/06/news/concordia_il_racconto_del_contabile_cos_salvai_1_2_milioni_di_euro-31066227/

[Uniall]

Headline from today's Repubblica:

"So I saved 1.2 million euros"

The business manager had the task to salvage the money from the coffers of the ship: "I threw the bag on the cloth of a boat"

 

http://firenze.repubblica.it/cronaca/2012/03/06/news/concordia_il_racconto_del_contabile_cos_salvai_1_2_milioni_di_euro-31066227/

 

 

Uh, say again. What the heck does that mean?

 

John

[kingcruiser1]

Uh, say again. What the heck does that mean?

 

John

 

The translation is from Bing translator. The translation attempts to tell the amount of money and how it was rescued by being thrown into the lifeboat in a bag........

I provided the link so that you could read further. Unfortunately, my Italian is not great, but sometimes the translations are not so good, either. The article does give some basics about the attempt to save the money aboard the ship, though. If you possess the capability, a better translation would be welcomed! :) Thanks!

Edited March 7, 2012 by kingcruiser1

[SomeBeach]

Headline from today's Repubblica:

"So I saved 1.2 million euros"

The business manager had the task to salvage the money from the coffers of the ship: "I threw the bag on the cloth of a boat"

 

http://firenze.repubblica.it/cronaca/2012/03/06/news/concordia_il_racconto_del_contabile_cos_salvai_1_2_milioni_di_euro-31066227/

 

While the Costa Concordia was wrecked on the Island of Giglio, there were some who, for his part, had to use the money to rescue the banks of the ship, one million and 240,000 euros in total between salaries of employees and revenue of businesses on board, including those of the casinos and restaurants. The task of taking away the money belonged to the Administrative Director John Nonnis and his superior, the hotel director Giampredoni Manrico, the purser was imprisoned and later rescued by speleologists days after the ??. They gathered together the money from the safes of the ship and put him in a bag then Nonnis Orange, landed at Giglio, delivered to an armored car.

 

On the evening of January 13 Nonnis was activated just heard the signal of 'hole board', about at 21.45. "I made ​​the bag with all the currency kept in two safes in my office, mandatory step for me in case of breach," says Nonnis heard in recent weeks by the police as a witness. Also collected more money from the ship, put on hold the money in the bag were the safes of services for passengers on deck 3, the type of change, for a total value of 28,000 euros, the money from the safe casino , to deck 5, containing a sum between 100 and 200,000 euros, the money wages and other money classified according to the source. "After about an hour I heard the general emergency signal and, as per procedure, I

went on deck to deliver the bag with the currency - also tells Nonnis - He entered the bridge left the bag over to Giampredoni, then went to the muster station 4 of the bridge to assist passengers. It was 23, came over the loudspeaker at about 23:15 the order to abandon ship. "Nonnis recalls having participated in the rescue and evacuation of passengers, the decrease of the boats at sea and rescue operations until about midnight, remembers, "Once secured on deck 4 and exhausted my job I went back to the bridge wanting to take away the bag with cash before 1.240000000 delivered to Giampredoni." On the bridge, about midnight, and 10 minutes, Nonnis Schettino said they recognized the captain, other officers (Bosio, Canessa, Coronica), the maitre Onorato and Giampredoni. "After a few minutes Schettino ordered to leave the bridge," he continues, while the bag "and I Giampredoni we went to Deck 4 to board. "But their raft had problems, the two drifted apart and went to the bridge Nonnis 3 where he jumped on a spear." Because of the money - remembers - first threw the bag on the helo of the spear that is was approached and after I threw myself on the canvas. "On the ground, guarded Nonnis money in the office of the crisis until the operation ended on the day after the transfer of money in Florence, in the offices of a company valuables, and then escorted to the transport in the offices of Coast to Genoa.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

This takes the Buscuit............How can Costa stoop so low !!!

 

Crew members who survived the deadly wreck of the Costa Concordia cruise ship in January have felt pressure to accept cash settlements quickly in order to return to their jobs, lawyers advising on possible claims against the ship’s owners have told the Financial Times.

Costa Crociere, the Carnival subsidiary that operated the Concordia, and Cruise Ships Catering International, a subsidiary that hired food and beverage workers, have offered crew members a payout for losses that also requires them to forfeit their right to claim psychological and physical distress from the wreck.

According to a copy of the settlement contract seen by the FT, the offer would cover personal money lost on board, personal items lost – up to a maximum of $3,750 – and pay for the remainder of their contracts.

 

“Most of the ones who have signed did not have the opportunity to review the terms or have the assistance of counsel,” says Monica Kelly, who represents crew member Gary Lobaton. Mr Lobaton has filed a suit in Chicago federal court against Carnival Corp and seeks class-action status to represent Concordia victims, crew and passengers. The suit seeks compensation for alleged breach of contract, negligence and unjust enrichment as well as punitive damages.

Ms Kelly, of Ribbeck Law, said some crew in Indonesia reported being told that if they hired a lawyer, they might no longer be rehired. “Our strategy is to challenge the validity of the release,’’ she said. She said she was planning to file further individual suits for crew members.

Costa Cruises and Cruise Ships Catering International said no crew were under pressure to accept a settlement. “On the contrary, we’re receiving requests from the majority of them to shortly return onboard our ships,’’ Costa Crociere said in a statement.

A statement from the company said that “issues relating to settlements are private between Costa, its customers, and crew”. No one from Costa had threatened or pressurised any member of crew, who were being treated fairly, the company said.

The company declined to say whether any crew who had not signed the release had been rehired and whether they had received their compensation.

More than 4,200 people were aboard when the ship hit rocks off the coast of Italy. Thirty-two people are reported dead or still missing.

One Indonesian crew member from the Concordia spoke to the FT on condition of anonymity and said he signed papers from the company but was not sure what he had agreed to. “My monthly salary of about $600 is a lot of money. I have to go back to work. But I am still traumatised.”

Marc Bern, a lawyer who has joined with Italian consumer association Codacons in pursuing negligence claims against Carnival in the US for at least $528m in damages, said his firm had been retained by about a dozen crew.

“These are individuals with some limited skill and are intimidated by a multi-million dollar multinational corporation. It’s David vs Goliath,’’ said Mr Bern, a senior partner at Napoli Bern Ripka Shkolnik.

Additional reporting by Giulia Segretti in Rome

 

 

Im sorry but I feel that Costa have gone beyond a joke on this one, its nothing more thank blackmail.

 

 

As the people who take the cruises onboard this companies ship it is up to us to make our voices known to Carnival and Costa of our disapproval and make them reconsider their actions regarding the pay towards the crew from the Costa Concordia. Why should the lower staff be penalised due to actions of the rogue Captain and mismanagement at Costa

 

 

Do you agree with telling Costa you dont agree !!!

Edited March 7, 2012 by Davyjonesrugrat

[Rochesterboatingdotcom]

That should dim the hopes of the Mafia looters we were hearing about last month...

[CruisersNC]

This takes the Buscuit............How can Costa stoop so low !!!

 

[/i]

 

 

Im sorry but I feel that Costa have gone beyond a joke on this one, its nothing more thank blackmail.

 

 

As the people who take the cruises onboard this companies ship it is up to us to make our voices known to Carnival and Costa of our disapproval and make them reconsider their actions regarding the pay towards the crew from the Costa Concordia. Why should the lower staff be penalised due to actions of the rogue Captain and mismanagement at Costa

 

 

Do you agree with telling Costa you dont agree !!!

 

I have to agree that it is a terrible offer and Costa should be ashamed of themselves. Talk about treating your employees like crap...this takes the cake. :mad:

[SomeBeach]

This takes the Buscuit............How can Costa stoop so low !!!

 

[/i]

 

 

Im sorry but I feel that Costa have gone beyond a joke on this one, its nothing more thank blackmail.

 

 

As the people who take the cruises onboard this companies ship it is up to us to make our voices known to Carnival and Costa of our disapproval and make them reconsider their actions regarding the pay towards the crew from the Costa Concordia. Why should the lower staff be penalised due to actions of the rogue Captain and mismanagement at Costa

 

 

Do you agree with telling Costa you dont agree !!!

 

I have to agree that it is a terrible offer and Costa should be ashamed of themselves. Talk about treating your employees like crap...this takes the cake. :mad:

 

Next you must ask if this had been Princess, HAL, Cunard or even a RCI or NCL ship, would it have been any different.

 

Oops. Better add this. I am NOT defending Costa or Carnival Corp. Just expanding on the subject.

Edited March 7, 2012 by SomeBeach

[Uniall]

Next you must ask if this had been Princess, HAL, Cunard or even a RCI or NCL ship, would it have been any different.

 

Oops. Better add this. I am NOT defending Costa or Carnival Corp. Just expanding on the subject.

 

Micki

 

If NCL had done this (and I doubt they would) I'd be sending "shame on you" emails to top Execs in their corporate offices.

 

John

PS

I don't know such people at the other cruise lines