Am I wrong?

[Donder1]

I wonder how many threads there are on these boards around the issue of tipping and wages?

Enough, already! We know all of the arguments for and against.

I personally pay the auto tip, tip on tours and other port venues and am thankful that I am able to do so.

[Taxguy77]

Same thing happens in restaurants. Laws allow waiters to be paid well below minimum wage assuming that tips will make up the diff. So, do you see that in the same light?

 

The law in most, if not all, states requires the employer to make up any difference to the minimum wage.

Some restaraunt owners do not, of course, but that's a different problem.

Also, the IRS assumes tipped people in the U. S. make at least 8% of the bill in tips. If they do not report at least that much, the employer has to calculate the correct amount and report it.

That's why I tip 10% for bad service, not to penalize the person.

[luddite]

Regardless of method, customers always pay 100% of all company salaries.

 

We have a WINNING entry!!!!!!!!!

Customers also pay all the taxes,fees,and sundry overhead that a company encounters.

Congratulations on your winning entry !!!!!! First prize is a Sledgehammer of Enlightenment to use on people you meet.

[luddite]

You may be right on a few points but the OP isn't wrong, do you know what waiters who are American and live in America and pay taxes make? Most make about $2 an hour, and rely on their tips to bring their wages up to minimum wage. This is the point he is trying to make that they should make a decent wage and be rewarded for good service. The way the are paid now there is no reward for good service it just brings their salaries up to minimum wage. Which also lets the companies off the hook for their share of those taxes, leaving the responsibility soley on the worker where it comes out of their tips. Also just because these workers aren't American do they not deserve to make good wages? That seems a little prejudiced to me. Just my opinion.

 

OP you are not wrong.

 

I know a lot of waiters and bartenders who are perfectly content with their $2 /hr salary. Changing the system would cut into the 40 bucks an hour that they earn.

[luddite]

I did not base the wages on any currency. I simply think that companies no matter where the workforce comes from should pay a fair wage. they then could pass the cost along to us in the cruise fare instead of auto charging it to c&sail acct. that would allow the consumer to actualy give tips.

 

As it is now all our tips do is help pay salary.

 

This is the kind of thinking that has the country doomed.

It didn't wotk for the Soviet Union and it won't work for the other countries doing it.

[johneeo]

Regardless of method, customers always pay 100% of all company salaries.

 

Well said.

 

Kinda like corporations paying taxes. They don't. They just collect the tax in the form of their pricing.

[johneeo]

This is the kind of thinking that has the country doomed.

It didn't wotk for the Soviet Union and it won't work for the other countries doing it.

 

But Socialism and Communism word so well. Look at Russ... er ... Gree ...

er ... Czech .... North Kor ....

 

Well, somewhere it works really well. Who knows better than government how to run an economy?:rolleyes:

[tercar]

You are wrong because you are basing their wage on US standards. The tipped persons in question are not American and they do not live in America or pay taxes in America. They are paid a wage PLUS room and board and basic medical. The truth is, compared to your local wait staff that do live in America, they are coming out ok with only the basic wage compared to the basic wage in their country for unskilled labor. They are making a killing relatively speaking to what they would be making at home doing the same tpye of job.

 

Don't believe me, do a quick google search for min wages in a part of the world your servers came from. You will probably be quite shocked.

yes they may get a better wage than what they would get in their own country, however would they work 7 days a week and between 12-14 hours a day for months on end, with out a break?????? personally I dont know how they keep smiling xx Carol

[Dayenu]

Let's do simple math. Let's say, I will pay $120 per person per night plus $10 mandatory tips - $260 for 2 people goes to cruise line and employees.

 

If I'd pay for the cruise with tips included, it won't be $260 per night - add more taxes on payroll, port fees, and more travel agent fees - doesn't matter if I have a travel agent.

 

So it seems, I win with the current system.

[johneeo]

Let's do simple math. Let's say, I will pay $120 per person per night plus $10 mandatory tips - $260 for 2 people goes to cruise line and employees.

 

If I'd pay for the cruise with tips included, it won't be $260 per night - add more taxes on payroll, port fees, and more travel agent fees - doesn't matter if I have a travel agent.

 

So it seems, I win with the current system.

 

Maybe. Maybe not.

 

You did not take into account those that do not tip, and you are making up for them.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

yes they may get a better wage than what they would get in their own country, however would they work 7 days a week and between 12-14 hours a day for months on end, with out a break?????? personally I dont know how they keep smiling xx Carol

 

Carol,

 

Please stop! Nobody forces them to do this work, they choose it.

 

I mean really! You're making them out to be martyr's. Sheesh!:eek:

 

Bill

[luddite]

Let's do simple math. Let's say, I will pay $120 per person per night plus $10 mandatory tips - $260 for 2 people goes to cruise line and employees.

 

If I'd pay for the cruise with tips included, it won't be $260 per night - add more taxes on payroll, port fees, and more travel agent fees - doesn't matter if I have a travel agent.

 

So it seems, I win with the current system.

 

Another winner! Congratulations!

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Let's do simple math. Let's say, I will pay $120 per person per night plus $10 mandatory tips - $260 for 2 people goes to cruise line and employees.

 

If I'd pay for the cruise with tips included, it won't be $260 per night - add more taxes on payroll, port fees, and more travel agent fees - doesn't matter if I have a travel agent.

 

So it seems, I win with the current system.

 

I agree with 2 out 3.

 

Why would port fees be more though?

 

Bill

 

 

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[ithaca gal]

Carol,

 

Please stop! Nobody forces them to do this work, they choose it.

 

I mean really! You're making them out to be martyr's. Sheesh!:eek:

 

Bill

 

Yes, they chose this work, but as a way of feeding their kids, buying shelter, etc. AND, in addition to working this hard and being away from their loved ones, they have to put up with attitudes of some very nasty people with no consideration for their well-being whatsoever.

 

I would "snap" very quickly, after dealing with some of the people I've seen on cruise ship!

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Yes, they chose this work, but as a way of feeding their kids, buying shelter, etc. AND, in addition to working this hard and being away from their loved ones, they have to put up with attitudes of some very nasty people with no consideration for their well-being whatsoever.

 

I would "snap" very quickly, after dealing with some of the people I've seen on cruise ship!

 

I was being facetious. i agree with you 100%. see post #24 where i agree and somebody told me i was making the staff out to be martyr's.

 

Bill

[bus man]

I would LOVE to see tipping abolished everywhere -- cruise lines, restaurants, taxis, etc. etc. etc. -- and just build the fee into the price. It's not that I'm trying to weasel out of paying the employees what they're worth. It's just that doing away with tips -- and yes, raising the prices to compensate -- would be MUCH easier to tell at a glance what you're REALLY going to pay for the product or service in question.

 

I understand the psychology behind listing things for $99.99 instead of $100, but I just find it annoying. Besides, is that $999 cruise really going to cost $999? No, of course not, you're going to have to add the tips in! Yes, I know, technically tipping is not required. Sure, if you don't mind your stateroom attendants and restaurant servers starving because you stiffed them on their tips, then yes, your cruise will cost $999. But realistically, it costs $999 PLUS tips ("service fee" would be more appropriate, since it's about as "required" as it could be, without actually being required), to equal . . . whatever it would equal. Just tell me up front, so I'll know how much it REALLY costs!

[bus man]

The last time we were in Sydney we had a delightful dinner the outdoor section of a decent restaurant near the opera house. After we had finished our main course we waited more then 30 min to order dessert and coffee, but we did not see our waiter. The same happened to the next table who had the same waiter. Finally, I went inside the restaurant and quietly asked to see the manager who quickly came over to talk. I told him that two tables outside had been waiting for service for more then a half hour but we did not see our waiter. The manager then explained that our waiter had gone home because his shift was over and he (the manager) had neglected to assign other staff to our tables. This is what Australia calls good service and we are sure our waiter was paid a fair wage. We had no way to protest since that same waiter did not expect any tip,,,nor did he care that he left us out there with no service (not his problem). Enough said.

 

Hank

 

"We had no way to protest"? Sure you did. You could complain to the manager, and demand that he manage his staff in whatever way is necessary to provide service to his customers. If he won't, you tell him that you won't patronize his restaurant again, and you'll spread bad reviews all across the Internet. Then do it.

 

What happened to you was not the result of no tipping, but rather the result of poor service and sloppy management. Really, the primary failing is on the manager's part, for it's his job to ensure that all customers are being served, regardless of by whom. I would hope that he apologized to you, and did something for you (such as give you your dessert for free) to compensate for your inconvenience.

 

Chasing after tips may provide some incentive for workers to offer a higher level of service, but a better determinant of how good your service will be is the work ethic of whoever is serving you. In your example, if the waiter had a good work ethic, he would have either stayed past his shift end to ensure that his customers were served, or he would have discussed the situation with his manager before leaving, so that the manager would be aware that there were customers sitting outside, and could arrange the other waiters to cover them.

 

Southwest Airlines employees aren't tipped, yet they nearly always provide excellent service. Ditto for Nordstrom's, and Chick-fil-A. Why? Because that's the corporate culture; because these companies seek out people who already possess a good work ethic, and then train them to perform their specific jobs.

[Hlitner]

Bus Man, Sure, the manager did appologize and personally waited on our table (and the other 2-top) for dessert and coffee. But you cannot apply our cultural mores to every other culture. Australia has a strict non-tipping culture that is based on the premise that if workers are paid an appropriate wage there is no need to tip (nor should they expect tips). But there is no incentive for a worker to work past the end of his/her shift unless they are paid for that additonal time by their boss. Otherwise, they go home. We live in Puerto Vallarta in the winter (am there now) and ran into an interesting tipping issue here where tipping in restaurants is the norm. We were at a popular restaurant for happy hour and dinner and got there about 5. At 6, our waiter (who had served a couple of rounds of drinks) came over and asked for his tips! He explained his shift was up and he had to go home :). Of course we did take care of him and everyone had a decent laugh (we invited him for drinks but he declined).

 

Hank

P.S. Count us as big SW fans. But keep in mind that the employees do get profit-sharing and many own stock. Their profit sharing plan was the first in the industry and part of the genius of their founder.