Rape on Carnival

[MsTabbyKats]

I read this to mean that it is a lesson (or a caution) to any of us (women and girls no matter our age) to be even more vigilant as something like this could happen to any of us. Reading about this incident has prompted my travel companions and myself to revisit our rules for our own safety. Being on vacation, it can be easy to let one's guard down. We are very safety conscious, but this incident (although we are much older than the victim) has put the issue of safety on the front burner for our upcoming cruise in a few weeks.

 

Thank you for interpreting. I'll try to keep my responses very simple and to the point, in order to avoid "confusion".

 

I can guarantee that her parents (or whoever was responsible for her) are blaming themselves for allowing her to roam around freely; or, one parent is blaming the other. That's what all parents do when there is a tragedy with their child. They blame each other...because very few will accept the responsibility.

 

Nothing makes rape ok. But there are things one can do to avoid being in the situation.

 

People..would you walk around Ocho Rios by yourself, with a 3 ct diamond ring? Probably not...because it would just "invite" someone to rob you.

 

It's the same thing with a 15 year old roaming on a ship at 4 am. It's inviting trouble.

 

The lesson...to put it clearly and concisely....is that you should not invite trouble. You should go out of your way to avoid it. Because, even though you think "that's something that happens to other people", it can happen just as easily to you.

[Gailerina]

Thank you for interpreting. I'll try to keep my responses very simple and to the point, in order to avoid "confusion".

 

I can guarantee that her parents (or whoever was responsible for her) are blaming themselves for allowing her to roam around freely; or, one parent is blaming the other. That's what all parents do when there is a tragedy with their child. They blame each other...because very few will accept the responsibility.

 

Nothing makes rape ok. But there are things one can do to avoid being in the situation.

 

People..would you walk around Ocho Rios by yourself, with a 3 ct diamond ring? Probably not...because it would just "invite" someone to rob you.

 

It's the same thing with a 15 year old roaming on a ship at 4 am. It's inviting trouble.

 

The lesson...to put it clearly and concisely....is that you should not invite trouble. You should go out of your way to avoid it. Because, even though you think "that's something that happens to other people", it can happen just as easily to you.

 

I understood what you meant.

 

We have to always be aware of where we are.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ~ sign the awesome Gailerina!

[LOVECRUISING100%]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2192252/Girl-15-gang-raped-Carnival-cruise-cabin-man-31-teenage-boys.html

 

 

Just wondering if ya'll saw this.

so sad

[CBCGirl]

There is not a single person on this thread blaming that poor child. The blame is on the SITUATION. We as parents can direct until we are blue in the face about rules and regulations, and its all we can do.

 

I know I was pretty damn indestructible as a teenager... but in truth,

 

I was damn lucky. Plain and Simple. Took growing up and being an adult to realize it.

 

 

Maybe you need to reread what some of the people on here have said, not all but too many are putting some of the blame on the girl by saying a 15 year old should know better that to go into that room. That IS blaming the girl. You're right you can TALK to your kids until you're blue in the face and it doesn't make a difference, but what does is monitoring your children, specific to a cruise would include escorting them to and from activities in Club O2 (or whatever is the correct club for that age) and when they are not at one of those activities they are with you, the other parent, a grandparent... That is how my parents raised me and how I will raise my children. At the time I hated it, now I'm grateful.

[gfy012]

Thank you for interpreting. I'll try to keep my responses very simple and to the point, in order to avoid "confusion".

 

I can guarantee that her parents (or whoever was responsible for her) are blaming themselves for allowing her to roam around freely; or, one parent is blaming the other. That's what all parents do when there is a tragedy with their child. They blame each other...because very few will accept the responsibility.

 

Nothing makes rape ok. But there are things one can do to avoid being in the situation.

 

People..would you walk around Ocho Rios by yourself, with a 3 ct diamond ring? Probably not...because it would just "invite" someone to rob you.

 

It's the same thing with a 15 year old roaming on a ship at 4 am. It's inviting trouble.

 

The lesson...to put it clearly and concisely....is that you should not invite trouble. You should go out of your way to avoid it. Because, even though you think "that's something that happens to other people", it can happen just as easily to you.

 

I blame the rapist period.

[kr8z]

I blame the rapist period.

 

word

[Umbarger]

As people have said the man is scum. In my opinion so are the teenage boys. They are making excuses and blaming alcohol and the other man for telling them to do it .:confused: If the man told them to jump off the ship would they have done that too. Those teens boys knew exactly what they were doing and should be arrested as well.

[AZbeachboy]

And IMHO, if you tell a parent what time to have your kids back in the room. Carnival is parenting, they parenting the parent

 

Rules and regulations are set for the common welfare. So, it not parenting by Carnival, but setting a policy for the good of all.

 

On our trip in July, groups of teenagers were having races throughout the halls at 2 and 3 AM. The first night people compalined. The next night they caught them as they got started. I understand each was given a curfew. Nothing wrong with that. After 13 cruises I have also had many expiereces with kids hanging out on the stairs at night. That is both a nuisance and safety hazard. There is noting wrong to require that any under 18 be with parents after 10, 11, or twelve, whatever time might be deemed appropriate.

[AZbeachboy]

I wish we could get laws on the books that would render these criminals 'useless' if convicted. (useless means, cut the damn thing off!!) Sick, sick people!:mad: And to think, we have politicians who don't understand the word RAPE.

 

Just to make a note and be fair. You are the only one that has said anything about politics in this horible situation. It is not good to make everything in life about politics.

 

Second, the argument about people not knowing what rape is, but about a single word in a proposed law, "legitimate."

[patrick82]

Seriously a couple of years ago we were on a 5 day cruise on Inspiration out of Tampa...our roll call was small...but this guy came on and told us he was travelling with his wife and young family and his mother in law was also coming along to take care of the children....but they were interested in meeting some women who would be interested in joining them for some sexual activities.....now it actually infuriated me because CC is so quick to *** out words...but somehow doesn't see this as a problem.........we were offended and told him so..........but none the less......he sailed and although no one on our CC group agreed....I can only imagine if they found some inebriated women or actually helped some women to become inebriated to help their cause..........it happens folks........be aware........I actually found myself on this cruise looking for such a couple to see if I could warn people.....

 

Sorry I can't let this go:

 

First, it is presumptuous and irresponsible to suggest that a couple who has different proclivities from your own would also seek out and intoxicate women for the sole purpose of sex they would otherwise be unwilling to have (i.e., statutory rape). You presented nothing that would lead a reasonable person to this conclusion.

 

From what I can tell, there was a couple looking for a like-minded woman with whom to share a good night. Even though nobody in the roll call took him up on the offer, it doesn't sound like he tried to force himself on anyone. What's the actual problem here?

 

Also, what exactly were you going to warn people about if you saw "such a couple?" That there's a couple who want to share their bed with a another woman? What if another woman is like-minded and interested? Just because something isn't your cup o' tea doesn't mean you need to save the world from it.

 

Finally, sharing this story in a thread about a rapist is completely uncalled for. Don't lump someone who is merely different from you in the same category as a rapist. It's a dangerous way of thinking.

 

Ok, off my soapbox, back to arguing about how curfews are the magical rape prevention technique.

[ccarpenter1963]

Rules and regulations are set for the common welfare. So, it not parenting by Carnival, but setting a policy for the good of all.

 

On our trip in July, groups of teenagers were having races throughout the halls at 2 and 3 AM. The first night people compalined. The next night they caught them as they got started. I understand each was given a curfew. Nothing wrong with that. After 13 cruises I have also had many expiereces with kids hanging out on the stairs at night. That is both a nuisance and safety hazard. There is noting wrong to require that any under 18 be with parents after 10, 11, or twelve, whatever time might be deemed appropriate.

 

This. Our town of around 4500 people has a curfew for 11 pm for 16 and under. Would people say they are parenting our children? It is for the common good. As a previous poster said.

[Piggeldy]

I blame the rapist period.

 

This.

 

No matter how foolish or stupid you are, no matter what you wear, no matter where you go, it's not the victim's fault but the rapist's.

 

Had the victim not been there, the rape wouldn't have happened, yes. Victim's fault? Still: nope. Victims don't yell "Please rape me" - not through their looks, not through their actions or their behavior. Someone else might have ended up as a victim had they behaved differently or simply been somewhere else, maybe - unfortunately that would mean locking ourselves in an empty room with a shotgun, because you never know - and in the end that wouldn't change anything. Thus, as that's not an option: The rapist is to blame.

 

The rapist can controle its (read: hishers) actions. Nobody has to run around and rape people.

 

[i know, a perfect world without crime is illusionistic. I am also certain that in the end we'd all agree that rape should never happen, that it can always happen to anyone no matter how careful we are but that we have to teach our children to be as careful as possible to minimize the chances of anything happening to them and to keep them safe.]

 

And you can indeed get pregnant from legitimate rape. But that's a whole other story.

[hubofhockey]

I am so sorry for this young girl and her family.

 

 

I recently contributed to a thread on here about parents controlling their teens, in which I suggested a curfew imposed by Carnival, and asked why the teen activities finish so late, and why they serve teen's favourite food - pizza and ice cream all through the night. I was 'flamed' by other posters who accused me of being a bad parent for wanting the cruise line to parent my kids.

 

I recently returned from our 1st cruise on the Breeze with my DH and 2 teen DDs. Despite laying out the rules with my DD 14, which required her to return to her cabin 15 mins after the end of the teen activities, on several ocassions I had to go out looking for her in the early hours as she thought she would see how far she could push Mum and Dad as 'everyone' went for pizza after circle c and she didn't see why she should be 'the only one' who had to go to bed.

 

I thought I was being a good parent by giving her rules, and by walking the decks looking for her in the early hours when she broke them. It is not just 'bad' parents who's kids are out late. Sometimes it's frustrated parents with willfull kids who think rules are only there to ruin their holiday. More parents than will admit it don't have perfect kids!

 

If O2 and Circle C finished at midnight, bars and lounges went ' adult only' at midnight, late night snacks were only available from room service, and roaming teens were challenged by staff or security, it would force the 'bad' parents to enforce rules, and greatly assist the 'frustrated' parents to insist their kids are not out late.

 

My teen was not out late because we let her, or because we were too busy drinking or gambling to care where she was, we were in the cabin waiting for her to come back, and when she didn't I was out looking for her. (And yes, there were consequences for her disobedience)

 

I for one would welcome Carnival introducing some rules around teen curfews, and not making the ship so attractive to hang around in the small hours for everyone's peace and safety.

 

This post is reality as parents of young teens on Carnival ships know well.

 

The 14 to 15 year olds start off at Circle C and it's a meeting place. There's not much going on for them there. They break out into packs and find places to hang out. For the most part, it's harmless fun and they enjoy their new friends. When our daughter was 15 minutes late from our curfew time, we had to go out and find her. We wanted to go to sleep before midnight ourselves for early morning excursions in the Med.

 

I also know that older teens found ways to get alcohol and stay out.

 

My daughter is a good kid. But the lure of hanging out and staying up late with new friends made her late and us mad, anxious, and nervous. We're going on the Allure next April and it makes me feel a bit better knowing that Royal Caribbean has curfews, even if that curfew is a bit more liberal than our curfews.

[janetz]

This post is reality as parents of young teens on Carnival ships know well.

 

The 14 to 15 year olds start off at Circle C and it's a meeting place. There's not much going on for them there. They break out into packs and find places to hang out. For the most part, it's harmless fun and they enjoy their new friends. When our daughter was 15 minutes late from our curfew time, we had to go out and find her. We wanted to go to sleep before midnight ourselves for early morning excursions in the Med.

 

I also know that older teens found ways to get alcohol and stay out.

 

My daughter is a good kid. But the lure of hanging out and staying up late with new friends made her late and us mad, anxious, and nervous. We're going on the Allure next April and it makes me feel a bit better knowing that Royal Caribbean has curfews, even if that curfew is a bit more liberal than our curfews.

 

 

This I think happens alot. The kids will say, oh but everyone else can stay out..Why can't I? They do push the limits. On our first cruise so long ago our girl was 14. The teen disco for that age group started at 10:30 and ended at 1 on Celebrity. I dont know if those times have changed but she was so upset when we would not let her stay out until 1. We had to go through that every night of the cruise.

[fan1080]

Placing blame anywhere other than with the perpetrators is ridiculous.

 

Saying the girls were wrong to enter the cabin and partake in drinking serves no purpose because we all realize that. The girls might even have questioned their decision to enter. That does not place blame with them in any way, shape or form.

 

To those that say giving kids freedoms is irresponsible, I disagree. At some point, we all need to be given some freedom so we can venture out into the world and make our own decisions. As parents we teach our children right and wrong, and hope they will use what we've taught them to make the right decisions. We all make bad decisions now and then. Most times, we get away with a bad decision, while other times we don't.

 

We can't be there forever to protect our children from bad decisions. Anyone that thinks otherwise is misguided. It's impossible to be there 100% of the time.

[kerrytens]

I blame the rapist period.

Exactly!

[armywifefisher]

Ok the parents, so call not parenting, and the girl going into the room is no excuse for her being raped. While she made a bad judgement, and I am sure we all on this board have done at one time or another. How many of y'all as teenagers went to parties with friend, I know I did, did I know everyone there NO, could you have been raped at any point in time YES!

 

Rap happens every where it happen in our own school, at our own homes and even by ppl you thought you knew and trusted, in our own towns, malls, movie theater, church, and the list goes on.

 

The ones saying where are the parents when this happen or this is why my kid don't get to free rang of the ship. Do you go to school with your child? Why not, since rape happens at schools, by teachers and classmates? You cannot be with your kids 24 X 7.

 

What you do have to teach your child is rape can happen anywhere and everywhere. To be aware of there surroundings. Teach them to notice the ratio of guys to girls, or the other way around. Also make them awear even if they are a boy and around a bunch of other boys they can too be raped. They also need know told to never be afraid to tell someone if you are raped, even if it is by someone you know and love.

 

 

This is a very sad story that happens to much and the laws are not as harsh as they need to be.

[hubofhockey]

Placing blame anywhere other than with the perpetrators is ridiculous.

 

Saying the girls were wrong to enter the cabin and partake in drinking serves no purpose because we all realize that. The girls might even have questioned their decision to enter. That does not place blame with them in any way, shape or form.

 

To those that say giving kids freedoms is irresponsible, I disagree. At some point, we all need to be given some freedom so we can venture out into the world and make our own decisions. As parents we teach our children right and wrong, and hope they will use what we've taught them to make the right decisions. We all make bad decisions now and then. Most times, we get away with a bad decision, while other times we don't.

 

We can't be there forever to protect our children from bad decisions. Anyone that thinks otherwise is misguided. It's impossible to be there 100% of the time.

 

Agree and if the cruise lines can help us by providing a safer environment, that's great too. This is why I support Royal Caribbean's curfew. I won't suggest that it would have prevented a rape. But it gives me more peace of mind and more backbone behind our rules. Carnival should consider a curfew for teens and some security to enforce it. If it costs a bit, I would think it might lower their insurance risk and it would be popular with parents.

[gooselover]

That is just horrible. What is wrong with people?????

[MsTabbyKats]

To the people who think it's ok for 12-17 to have all this freedom (to roam the ship 24/7 and more):

 

Don't you teach your children life skills:

1-Look both ways before crossing a street

2-Don't take candy from a stranger

3-Wash your hands before you eat

The list goes on........

 

I don't jog around Central Park @ 4:30 in the morning. I'm a grown-up. It's not against the law. I've learned that I have a better chance of "not being victimized" by not putting myself into vulnerable situations.

 

Yeah...the rapist is to blame. But, don't increase your likelihood of being his victim.

 

I'm sure the parents of the boys feel that their little angels were also victimized by the adult. (I am NOT defending them!!!)

 

If their parents had taught the boys "life skills" (don't roam till 4:30 am; don't drink) then they also would have avoided being victimized. (I'm just saying how their parents will defend them...again I am NOT defending them.) Because, as we know from other threads...boys will be boys...and it was all "the other kids" fault.

 

IMHO...a few rotten apples spoils the fun for everyone :mad:

[kimmyg726]

This.

 

No matter how foolish or stupid you are, no matter what you wear, no matter where you go, it's not the victim's fault but the rapist's.

 

Had the victim not been there, the rape wouldn't have happened, yes. Victim's fault? Still: nope. Victims don't yell "Please rape me" - not through their looks, not through their actions or their behavior. Someone else might have ended up as a victim had they behaved differently or simply been somewhere else, maybe - unfortunately that would mean locking ourselves in an empty room with a shotgun, because you never know - and in the end that wouldn't change anything. Thus, as that's not an option: The rapist is to blame.

 

The rapist can controle its (read: hishers) actions. Nobody has to run around and rape people.

 

[i know, a perfect world without crime is illusionistic. I am also certain that in the end we'd all agree that rape should never happen, that it can always happen to anyone no matter how careful we are but that we have to teach our children to be as careful as possible to minimize the chances of anything happening to them and to keep them safe.]

 

And you can indeed get pregnant from legitimate rape. But that's a whole other story.

 

Wonderfully worded. I've been very upset by some of the comments that have been made about the girl and her decision to go to the room.

 

This whole story is so very sad. My heart breaks for this girl, her family and her friend who had to hear it happening. Having had to sit in a hospital with my best girl friend while they conducted a rape examination on her will always be stuck in my mind so I will never have sympathy for those who committed the crime.

 

I hope ALL of these predators get to spend a long time in jail. It's not just the adults fault. These young men made a choice too.

 

As for parenting, I will keep my thoughts to my self as I don't feel that's what this thread should truly be about. Everyone has their own opinions.

[hebbynan]

My question is for all the curfew supporters, other than maybe safety , why would you have one ? If it's truly for safety then kids should never be allowed out of the room. Crime is 24/7, if you make adjustments, predators and pedophiles make adjustments. Disney World doesn't even have a curfew, yes the parks close, but if you stay on Disney property they don't tell you when to make your kids go to the room.

 

What is there to do for a child or teen on the boat at say 3pm in the morning? Surely the kid/teen specific activities are closed. I know there are a lot of us out there who do parent our chirldren, but there are those who don't as I have seen this first hand on past cruises.

 

It's similar to when you go to a campground. Most of them have 'quiet hours'. One we frequent even has a rule that no one under 18 can be off his or her site after 11pm. This helps them avoid destruction to property, graffiti, etc.

 

I'm not saying that all kids will get into trouble, but a curfew sure might make it less likely. And let's be honest.....what kid really NEEDS to be running around at 3 in the morning?!!!?

[susie8862]

Wonderfully worded. I've been very upset by some of the comments that have been made about the girl and her decision to go to the room.

 

This whole story is so very sad. My heart breaks for this girl, her family and her friend who had to hear it happening. Having had to sit in a hospital with my best girl friend while they conducted a rape examination on her will always be stuck in my mind so I will never have sympathy for those who committed the crime.

 

I hope ALL of these predators get to spend a long time in jail. It's not just the adults fault. These young men made a choice too.

 

As for parenting, I will keep my thoughts to my self as I don't feel that's what this thread should truly be about. Everyone has their own opinions.

 

May I say...this is one of the few statements, I agree with. You can be the BEST parent in the world and still give birth to a "Jeffrey Daumer"

[Rocketlady]

I am wondering why the cruise ship didn't shut down the key to the room.

Ususally it is programed in the computer at the desk right away.

 

I really wish the cruise ships had more security on board. I never see

any one that truly looks like they are the law. Thank goodness for the

cameras. But they are good for after the fact.

[nitro2448]

What is there to do for a child or teen on the boat at say 3pm in the morning? Surely the kid/teen specific activities are closed. I know there are a lot of us out there who do parent our chirldren, but there are those who don't as I have seen this first hand on past cruises.

 

It's similar to when you go to a campground. Most of them have 'quiet hours'. One we frequent even has a rule that no one under 18 can be off his or her site after 11pm. This helps them avoid destruction to property, graffiti, etc.

 

I'm not saying that all kids will get into trouble, but a curfew sure might make it less likely. And let's be honest.....what kid really NEEDS to be running around at 3 in the morning?!!!?

 

 

First of all, nowhere in any of my posts did i say a kid NEEDS to be running around the ship at 3 AM. When my daughter was younger I NEVER let her run around the ship alone period, let alone 3AM. What I said was the parents need to set the curfew, not Carnival. In all of my posts these are MY OPINIONS, you do not have to agree, nor do I with yours. so in MY opinion, if you are a parent asking Carnival to set a curfew, it is because you dont have control of your kids and are asking for help in doing so, or you are a parent who is more of a friend than a parent, and do not want to make your child mad. So if Carnival sets the curfew, then it's " well i'm sorry but thats Carnivals policy". If you are a passenger with no kids, you want Carnival to set a curfew just to keep the kids away at night so you can enjoy it with no kids running around. While I do not think kids should be running the ship at even midnight, another parent might. Just because you and I do not agree with it, you and do not have the right to to tell someone else how to raise thier kids, as long as child abuse is not involved. Yes I agree, I see several parents who let thier kids run free, and I dislike it, but it's thier kids not mine. And if everyone would quit focusing on this one case and go read all stories on ************, it's not just girls, it's not just kids, it's not just early morning hours, it is all the time and everywhere. 65% of all sexual crimes are by ship empolyees, so yeah, lets have the employees bring our kids back at night because we do not want to be a parent.