Underage Drinking Onboard

[nitro2448]

I don't remember reading where the OP blamed carnival for anything other than not checking her ID. The OP fully admits that her daughter drank even though she shouldn't have, the question is why was she allowed in to begin with? It does sound like she had something slipped into her drink and in these times I believe it does happen, even on cruise ships. Hopefully this experience will show the OP's daughter that she needs to be much more careful and thank goodness nothing worse happened.

 

When she said she may never cruise again, and will not cruise with carnival, that lays blame. And when another poster says carnival shared 20% blame and she says carnival is more than 20% to blame That says she blames carnival. And if it's an 18 to 20 club, I don't really think checking Id's is that big a deal I am fully aware things get slipped in to drinks, but usually by other people in the bar, I'm not saying the bartender or waitress couldn't have done it. I'm just going by probability

[thistimeplease]

When she said she may never cruise again, and will not cruise with carnival, that lays blame. And when another poster says carnival shared 20% blame and she says carnival is more than 20% to blame That says she blames carnival. And if it's an 18 to 20 club, I don't really think checking Id's is that big a deal I am fully aware things get slipped in to drinks, but usually by other people in the bar, I'm not saying the bartender or waitress couldn't have done it. I'm just going by probability

 

As I said she blamed Carnival for not checking ID's. If the club is for 18-20 yr olds I think they should check ID's and if it is for the younger crowd why did they serve alcohol without checking ID's. Hopefully, they won't let my 15 yr. in and if they do I hope someone doesn't serve him a shot.

[nitro2448]

I will say that there were other problems on the entire cruise that may keep her away from carnival But she still places a percentage of blame on carnival, and that is her right, I'm trying to take it away I'm just like everybody else here, and giving MY. Opinion :)

[nitro2448]

As I said she blamed Carnival for not checking ID's. If the club is for 18-20 yr olds I think they should check ID's and if it is for the younger crowd why did they serve alcohol without checking ID's. Hopefully, they won't let my 15 yr. in and if they do I hope someone doesn't serve him a shot.

 

If it was an 18 to 20 club there should not have been alcohol period. That's why I said checking the ID should not be a big deal If a 17 year old or a 21 year old slips in, so what, there should have been NO alcohol If there was alcohol then it clearly was not a 20 year old age limit. You and I do not know the real story, and quite honestly the mother may not either, just what she was told. I'm not saying that at 17 she should be served at all, but do you know 100% she was ?

[Westtxgal]

The very fact that the security guard who was standing at the door of the club carding people tried to tell me there was no way she had gotten in that club tells me that she should not have been allowed in... It also shows that Carnival believed it was important to check ID's... that's not MY policy... It's theirs... And then to see her dancing in that club on the video they made verifies that she was, in fact, in the club. So there is no way around blaming Carnival for that.

 

My intention was not to start a debate about who was right and wrong in the situation... My daughter was at fault for her part... Carnival was at fault for their part... And I can share some responsibility because she is my daughter and I am ultimately responsible for her for a few more months... So there is blame to go around. And if you want to blame my daughter or myself and say that Carnival acted appropriately in allowing her in the club and serving her drinks at the age of 17, that's fine too. It's not logical to me but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

Had that been the only thing that went wrong on this cruise, I would have been upset but might have considered it a one time, albeit very bad, experience and left it at that... but it wasn't the only thing that went wrong. When the spa employee told me she would come find me if she got fired... well, that was the end of my respect for Carnival. Just like I am responsible for what my children do, Carnival is responsible for what their employees do... End of story.

 

I have cruised on NCL, RCCL & Disney as well 4 Carnival. I'm not a "loyal" follower of any one cruise line, though I tend to prefer NCL. I choose based on where they leave from, where they are going, price and a few other factors. I did this particular cruise because it was a newer ship and I thought it would nice... though even the ship was rather disappointing. And I am sure that Carnival could care less whether or not I ever step foot on one of their ships again so it's not like they are being punished. But I do believe that parents have the right to know that a 17 year old can go into a club and be served alcohol by a Carnival employe. It may not happen every time or on every ship... but it CAN and DID happen... And some parents may be fine with that and that is their choice as well... But they at least have the right to be aware that it happens.

[Westtxgal]

If it was an 18 to 20 club there should not have been alcohol period. That's why I said checking the ID should not be a big deal If a 17 year old or a 21 year old slips in, so what, there should have been NO alcohol If there was alcohol then it clearly was not a 20 year old age limit. You and I do not know the real story, and quite honestly the mother may not either, just what she was told. I'm not saying that at 17 she should be served at all, but do you know 100% she was ?

 

Just to clarify, it was not an 18-20 year old club... it was an "18-20's meet and greet" in an adult club that does serve alcohol. And yes, I know 100% that she was served. She did not order or pay for the drink. A guy in the club ordered it and asked the waitress to give it to her from him... just like people do in bars every day. And if the waitress would have asked my daughter for her ID before giving her the drink, she would have been kicked out of the club and the entire episode would have been prevented. That is EXACTLY what should have and is supposed to happen.

[nitro2448]

The very fact that the security guard who was standing at the door of the club carding people tried to tell me there was no way she had gotten in that club tells me that she should not have been allowed in... It also shows that Carnival believed it was important to check ID's... that's not MY policy... It's theirs... And then to see her dancing in that club on the video they made verifies that she was, in fact, in the club. So there is no way around blaming Carnival for that.

 

My intention was not to start a debate about who was right and wrong in the situation... My daughter was at fault for her part... Carnival was at fault for their part... And I can share some responsibility because she is my daughter and I am ultimately responsible for her for a few more months... So there is blame to go around. And if you want to blame my daughter or myself and say that Carnival acted appropriately in allowing her in the club and serving her drinks at the age of 17, that's fine too. It's not logical to me but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

Had that been the only thing that went wrong on this cruise, I would have been upset but might have considered it a one time, albeit very bad, experience and left it at that... but it wasn't the only thing that went wrong. When the spa employee told me she would come find me if she got fired... well, that was the end of my respect for Carnival. Just like I am responsible for what my children do, Carnival is responsible for what their employees do... End of story.

 

I have cruised on NCL, RCCL & Disney as well 4 Carnival. I'm not a "loyal" follower of any one cruise line, though I tend to prefer NCL. I choose based on where they leave from, where they are going, price and a few other factors. I did this particular cruise because it was a newer ship and I thought it would nice... though even the ship was rather disappointing. And I am sure that Carnival could care less whether or not I ever step foot on one of their ships again so it's not like they are being punished. But I do believe that parents have the right to know that a 17 year old can go into a club and be served alcohol by a Carnival employe. It may not happen every time or on every ship... but it CAN and DID happen... And some parents may be fine with that and that is their choice as well... But they at least have the right to be aware that it happens.

 

If you read what I said, I said in fact at 17 she should not be served, but just because the video shows her in the club does not mean an employee served her. If it does they are wrong for that. If the 18 to 20 meet an greet was in that club, then clearly people under 21 were in there The only blame I would definitely put on carnival at this point would be putting an 18 to 20 meet an greet in a bar

[T. Advisor King]

I have a very different view, I'm from Ontario where the drinking age is 19 however most kids are starting way before that ( including myself). I think 21 yrs to drink is ridiculous. I don't for a second believe one shot would make someone that sick, something's up there. But maybe if people were so uptight about the 21 drinking age maybe 17 - 20 yr olds wouldn't be making such bad choices and having to be so sneaking. My kids and most of their friends started drinking at 16 ( I was much younger), we knew where they were and how much they had to they didn't have to be sneaking and make bad choices. Being old enough to vote, drive ( much more dangerous) and go to war but you can't have a drink, wierd in my book. Sorry to upset people with my opinion. I will be cruising in Dec with my 17 yr old daughter and 20 1/2 yr old son. They will both be drinking in the ports, my daughter more limited then my son. I can't imagine telling my 6"5 son that he can't have a beer !!!

 

Thank you for a dose of common sense. The problems with strict enforcement of a 21-year drinking age are multiple.

 

First, it implies that there is some magic to turning 21 that you go from being incapable of drinking responsibly to fully capable. In fact, the ability to drink responsibly is a learned behavior. If someone wants a driver's license, most jurisdictions require a form of learners permit and a period of practice driving under adult supervision. Why do we think that someone, solely by virtue of turning 21, will suddenly be capable of making good decisions when it comes to alcohol.

 

Second, by maintaining such a high threshhold, it encourages binge drinking -- drinking to get drunk. If you've been drinking occasionally and progressively for 3-5 years, you don't generally have any particular desire to go out and get drunk the moment you turn 21. Alcohol is no big deal when it is treated with respect.

 

The US is way out of whack with the rest of the world on this one. Check out this link to the Wikipedia page on "legal drinking age". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age. And don't just look at the chart (which shows both a "drinking" and "purchase" age, which is often different). Read the notes -- many of which explain that minors can legally consume alcohol in private. Note that in the UK the consumption age in a private home with parental consent is 5.

[nitro2448]

You can blame whoever you want to whatever degree you want, it's your daughter and your situation. Nobody can fault you for doing what you think is best for your daughter. But when you start a thread your going to get variations of opinion, and that's all anyone here has rally given. If carnivals policy is all you wanted then You should probably call or go to their website. Even tho people on CC. May think they are, nobody is a carnival expert

[nitro2448]

Thank you for a dose of common sense. The problems with strict enforcement of a 21-year drinking age are multiple.

 

First, it implies that there is some magic to turning 21 that you go from being incapable of drinking responsibly to fully capable. In fact, the ability to drink responsibly is a learned behavior. If someone wants a driver's license, most jurisdictions require a form of learners permit and a period of practice driving under adult supervision. Why do we think that someone, solely by virtue of turning 21, will suddenly be capable of making good decisions when it comes to alcohol.

 

Second, by maintaining such a high threshhold, it encourages binge drinking -- drinking to get drunk. If you've been drinking occasionally and progressively for 3-5 years, you don't generally have any particular desire to go out and get drunk the moment you turn 21. Alcohol is no big deal when it is treated with respect.

 

The US is way out of whack with the rest of the world on this one. Check out this link to the Wikipedia page on "legal drinking age". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age. And don't just look at the chart (which shows both a "drinking" and "purchase" age, which is often different). Read the notes -- many of which explain that minors can legally consume alcohol in private. Note that in the UK the consumption age in a private home with parental consent is 5.

 

I agree 100% US way of base on alcohol usage And I think thats why we have the drinking problems we have. In the old days, all I can do is guess about now, but Germany had beer machines like we have pop machines

[govgurl]

Thank you for a dose of common sense. The problems with strict enforcement of a 21-year drinking age are multiple.

 

First, it implies that there is some magic to turning 21 that you go from being incapable of drinking responsibly to fully capable. In fact, the ability to drink responsibly is a learned behavior. If someone wants a driver's license, most jurisdictions require a form of learners permit and a period of practice driving under adult supervision. Why do we think that someone, solely by virtue of turning 21, will suddenly be capable of making good decisions when it comes to alcohol.

 

Second, by maintaining such a high threshhold, it encourages binge drinking -- drinking to get drunk. If you've been drinking occasionally and progressively for 3-5 years, you don't generally have any particular desire to go out and get drunk the moment you turn 21. Alcohol is no big deal when it is treated with respect.

 

The US is way out of whack with the rest of the world on this one. Check out this link to the Wikipedia page on "legal drinking age". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age. And don't just look at the chart (which shows both a "drinking" and "purchase" age, which is often different). Read the notes -- many of which explain that minors can legally consume alcohol in private. Note that in the UK the consumption age in a private home with parental consent is 5.

 

And note that alcoholism and binge drinking are just as rife in the UK as they are in the United States, maybe more so.

 

I agree it's strange that you can do many things in the US more dangerous than drinking (drive a car, serve in the military, own a gun) before you can drink. But there's this persistent fantasy with some that kids in other countries, especially in Europe, are better users of alcohol because they start earlier and drink "more gradually". As someone whose spent a lot of time in Europe recently as a young person I can tell you that European kids are just as prone to binge drink, drink to get drunk, drink to get messed up before/after/while clubbing, get drunk on the weekends, as American kids. Maybe the one difference is they're less likely to get into a car and try to drive after doing it, because not as many of them have licenses or cars. Starting drinking younger doesn't necessarily teach you to moderate your drinking. In some cases it can just further encourage alcoholism.

[lizjoemom]

Wow, I can't believe she got into the club, AND GOT SERVED!!! Carnival dropped the ball. When I was 17, granted this was on RCCL, I tried, HARD, to get into the clubs and to get served with zero luck.

 

:D

 

 

.

 

I am amazed that they let her the club! We just got off the Legend and one night we went to the nightclub "Medusa's Lair" for an 80's dance party for 18 and up. My very young looking 20 year old came with us and they made her go up to the room to get her drivers license to prove that she was over 18, even tho. she had her sign and sail AND her mother and father standing there vouching for her! They were very strict about it. Turns out we didnt even stay at the dance party it was a dud!

They had security at all the adult venues so after that she always carried her license with her sign and sail.

Personally, I believe if they are over 18 and the parents decide that it is ok they can sign a waiver for wine and beer just like on NCL. But it is the cruise ships rules, my daughter did not drink on the ship, but when we went into port she had a couple of drinks but always with us. Even at the clubs on the ship we would not let her go alone, one of us was always with her.

Sorry to hear that story from the OP. it definitely sounds like it was a reaction from more than one drink. Usually drugs mixed with alchohol cause a violent reaction like that one.Someone may have spiked her drink. I am glad to hear that your daughter is OK.

[BallFour4]

I guess it's just me.

 

A 17 year old knowingly went where she was not permitted, she knowingly accepted an alcoholic drink and armed with that knowledge she drank it. After one drink this person makes it back to her cabin in a lucid state of function and is found by a parent.

 

Now the parent has full knowledge of the following:

• her child only had one drink
  
• a bartender served it to her child
  
• a stranger "sent" the drink over to her child
  
• that one drink caused her to be intoxicated
  

Is it possible... the child consumed more than one drink, either in someone else cabin, given to her by someone of age, is not telling the entire story? Nah...

I know if I had done this at that age I'd be perfectly forthright with my parents. Yea, that's it...

Now, replies want to divide 100% up over the blame. How about this, if the 17 year old had not knowingly entered a venue where she was clearly not supposed to be or at the least not taken a drink from a stranger, a bartender or Funship Freddy the odds are at 100% she would have a better memory of this cruise.

I'd even wager the rest of the cruise "problems" wouldn't be her on Cruise Critic. Dear parent, your problem didn't end when the ship returned to port. I'm still confused that you found an obvious medical situation and instead of reaching for the in-cabin phone you left your daughter again and ran to another deck seeking out security guard. I am sure it's only me...

.

[Westtxgal]

I guess it's just me.

 

A 17 year old knowingly went where she was not permitted, she knowingly accepted an alcoholic drink and armed with that knowledge she drank it. After one drink this person makes it back to her cabin in a lucid state of function and is found by a parent.

 

Now the parent has full knowledge of the following:

• her child only had one drink
  
• a bartender served it to her child
  
• a stranger "sent" the drink over to her child
  
• that one drink caused her to be intoxicated
  

Is it possible... the child consumed more than one drink, either in someone else cabin, given to her by someone of age, is not telling the entire story? Nah...

I know if I had done this at that age I'd be perfectly forthright with my parents. Yea, that's it...

Now, replies want to divide 100% up over the blame. How about this, if the 17 year old had not knowingly entered a venue where she was clearly not supposed to be or at the least not taken a drink from a stranger, a bartender or Funship Freddy the odds are at 100% she would have a better memory of this cruise.

I'd even wager the rest of the cruise "problems" wouldn't be her on Cruise Critic. Dear parent, your problem didn't end when the ship returned to port. I'm still confused that you found an obvious medical situation and instead of reaching for the in-cabin phone you left your daughter again and ran to another deck seeking out security guard. I am sure it's only me...

.

 

Is there a reason you feel the need to be rude and insulting to me? Does it make you feel bigger?

 

If you had read my posts you would see that I have already responded to the vast majority of the things you said...

 

1.) I clearly acknowledged that my daughter was wrong in what she did. She has lost her car keys, her phone, tv, computer and is grounded for the time being. Plus she lost out on any freedom for the rest of her cruise. What more would you like for me to do? I have 3 kids... one will be 20 next month... This was the first incident even remotely like this from any of them. So I am not quite the horrible mother you are trying to make me out to be... Plus 2 of my children (including the one this post is about) have Cystic Fibrosis and I have managed to keep them healthy but life has not been easy. So why don't you find something other than my parenting skills to insult me for.

 

2.) I also clearly stated in a post above that it is likely that my daughter drank more than she is telling me.

 

3.) I also explained why it was almost impossible that my daughter had met someone and gone to a cabin to drink prior to going to the club. Maybe you should try reading the posts before you respond to them.

 

4.) I know that I should have grabbed the phone instead of running to the club. I made a mistake because I was terrified out of my mind and not thinking clearly. If that makes me a bad mother, than I guess you got me.

[ronrythm]

For all of you that are saying one drink couldn't make the daughter that sick, yes, it does happen. I work at a college where the underclassmen are required to live on campus. We have about the same thing happen once or twice a year; someone, typically a young female, without much body mass, who has never had alcohol before in their life, gets a "present" and quickly gets deathly sick. We know the person has only had one drink, because they have typically been with other people (like their roomate) all day. Typically the idiots who give such a "present" give something with a high alcohol content, which makes it that much worse. There's a lot of difference between a beer and a shot of Barcardi 151. So I will believe the young lady until proven otherwise.

 

One thing that was said earlier by the OP was she told her daughters was never take anything from someone other than a staff member. We tell our students don't take an open container from ANYONE, no matter what you think is in it.

 

On Monday night our incoming students will be attending a program called "Drunk Sex or Date Rape". It's a true story with no winners and a bunch of people who lose a lot. It's possibly the best program we do for the students as far as making them think about the consequences of their actions. Here's a link. http://ncherm.org/services/student-programs/drunk-sex-or-date-rape/ Any of you with children should think about taking them to it if you ever can.

 

West Texas Gal, I think you are doing a good job of being a parent. She told you she had been in the club and accepted a drink from a stranger, both of which she knew you did not want her to do. That she told you speaks of good trust in you. Part of being a parent is seeing your kids make mistakes, they could have avoided. It's how you and your kids deal with it that will define how they turn out. Some lessons are more painful than others, but this could have turned out a lot worse.

 

Again thank you for bring this out into the public. Don't let the negativity bring you down.

Ron

[HarpHarp]

Yes people can get sick from one drink. Here is a summation of studies I worked on.

Ethanol, which is found in alcoholic beverages is metabolized at different rates among humans due to genetic variation within the metabolizing enzymes. Ethanol is broken down into water and acetic acid by a two step process:

Alcohol is first converted to acetaldehyde by an enzyme called alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH). This enzyme consists of two subunits. The subunits are encoded at five different gene locations (for example, location a,b,c,d,e). ADH may consist of any two subunits from any of these locations. These are termed 'isozymes' of ADH. It has been found that there is an unusually high rate of enzyme activity when the isozyme contains at least one subunit from location 'b'. This is one basis for variation in ethanol metabolism among genetically diverse people. Unusually high activities of ADH have been found among 85% of the Japanese and Chinese population. The high activity occurs to a lesser degree among caucasians, less than 21%; African Americans, less than 10%; Native Americans, 0%; and Asian Indians, 0% (3).

Next, acetaldehyde is broken down to acetic acid and water by an enzyme called acetaldehyde dehydrogenase 2 (ALDH 2). It has a high affinity for acetaldehyde and will rapidly convert it. 45 - 53% of Japanese, Chinese, and Vietnamese populations are deficient in ALDH 2 activity due to a point mutation; the replacement of one amino acid for another (GLU487 to LYS487) (3).

The rapid conversion of alcohol to aldehyde coupled with the slow conversion of aldehyde to acid can cause a build up of aldehyde in the blood. This results in dilated blood vessels and obvious flushing of the face. The build up of these metabolites can cause severe illness.

 

http://extoxnet.orst.edu/faqs/senspop/genetic.htm

[jules815]

Yup....they are not buying it them self. A S&S card for someone under 21 will not allow an alcoholic charge, it is locked out in the computer system.

 

Unless the cruise line screws up. In 2009, our 20 year old daughter, just 3 months shy of her 21st birthday, was given the "adult" Sea Pass card on our Mexican Riviera cruise. We noticed when we got up the buffet that her card looked different from her younger sister's, and the same as ours.

[nitro2448]

Unless the cruise line screws up. In 2009, our 20 year old daughter, just 3 months shy of her 21st birthday, was given the "adult" Sea Pass card on our Mexican Riviera cruise. We noticed when we got up the buffet that her card looked different from her younger sister's, and the same as ours.

 

I've never known them to have a different card for kids vs adults. My daughters has always looked the same as mine She was 7 in our first cruise. Just when they swipe it do they know the age

[nitro2448]

I'm guessing your talking about the S&S card. The only difference I seen in cards was 1st sailing to 2nd then to platinum. Was that your youngest daughters 1st sailing and your oldest daughters 2nd ?

[wentworth]

OP, sorry this happened to your daughter. Must have been a terrifying

nite for you. A couple of questions, when the nurse came to your cabin

to check your daughter, was a report written up? You said the security

guard called for medical, did anyone show up from his call or just the nurse

from your 911 call?

 

I agree that an 18-20 meet and greet sponsored by Carnival (?) and

posted in the daily schedule should NOT be held in any bar/club that

is open and serving alcohol!!! A safer place would have been Camp

Carnival.

 

No judgement here, you've had plenty.

[Westtxgal]

Thanks, guys. Constructive criticism and differing opinions are great... but rude and hurtful comments to people you don't even know are beyond my comprehension. I just can't understand why some people feel the need to be so ugly. I'm sure they get something from it... it's just not in my nature to be that way so I don't understand it. What I have learned from this site, however, is that it's typically the same people over and over who like to make personal attacks on people even when they really don't have anything to contribute to the conversation. As my mom always said, it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

 

As far as the alcohol goes, I have said all along that I don't know for sure how much she drank... nor does she. And she is on several medications including pancreatic enzymes. That may or may not cause alcohol to affect her differently... I honestly don't know. Fortunately it's not something I've had to deal with before... though we will be discussing it at our next checkup so the doctor can have her input with my daughter. She, naturally, takes her doctor more seriously than her mom :-)

[jules815]

I've never known them to have a different card for kids vs adults. My daughters has always looked the same as mine She was 7 in our first cruise. Just when they swipe it do they know the age

 

In 2009 the RC cards had a different design for minors. That's how we noticed. And when she ordered a Pina Colada and they swiped her card and it worked. :eek:

[Westtxgal]

OP, sorry this happened to your daughter. Must have been a terrifying

nite for you. A couple of questions, when the nurse came to your cabin

to check your daughter, was a report written up? You said the security

guard called for medical, did anyone show up from his call or just the nurse

from your 911 call?

 

I agree that an 18-20 meet and greet sponsored by Carnival (?) and

posted in the daily schedule should NOT be held in any bar/club that

is open and serving alcohol!!! A safer place would have been Camp

Carnival.

 

No judgement here, you've had plenty.

 

Thank you. You're very kind. Yes, the nurse did write up a report. When I spoke with her on the phone she told me she would have to charge me to come to my room. I told her I did not care but I needed her to get there ASAP. When she got to my room she had two security officers with her (well, I say that... I know one was a security officer... I'm honestly not sure who the other one was)... The officer came in the room with her and was there the entire time. The other man stood outside my door and just watched what was going on. The one who came in the room checked the mini bar to see if it was open (thinking maybe she had gotten alcohol from there) but it was locked. It was never unlocked during the entire cruise. After the nurse was finished checking out my daughter, the officer told me there would be no charge and not to hesitate to call them at any time if I needed further assistance. He was very nice about it all and handled the situation with great compassion... which I very much appreciated. I wish the entire crew had been like him.

[Rottweiler Puppy]

Since you know the drinking age on Carnival is 21 that should be the end of it unless you are trying to find a way around it.

 

Or maybe they are just curious. Its an interesting question I wondered about as well.

 

Too many of you on here assume the worst in people.

[Geezers]

Or maybe they are just curious. Its an interesting question I wondered about as well.

 

Too many of you on here assume the worst in people.

 

I might be guilty as charged on this one. We all know that most of these post about teens and alcohol end up with trying to figure out how to let the kids drink since they are off shore. That's where my thoughts went with the op's cryptic first post. If this thread had started with post 21 with more info then my mind wouldn't have wandered to the dark side of the topic.

 

My apologies to the op and all offended here. I do hope her daughter is well even after learning a valuable lesson the hard way.