Fascination Man Overboard 8-27-12? (MERGED THREADS)

[lovesublime]

The way I see it there is more to this story...I like to hear exactly what did happen between his "confrontation" with the woman employee and he...there is a piece or two missing to this story.

 

He obviously was in his right frame of mind when he grabbed the life preserver and jumped overboard, it seems to me that he did something that was wrong as a result he had to flee from the security officer...his only way of not getting caught or perhaps knowing his career was on the line was to get away in hopes nobody identify him so he jumped overboard. Also military personnel are trained to act on situations so I feel he knew exactly what he was doing. There are cameras that I am positive caught it all and e are not getting all the information about everything and not sure if we ever would.

 

It appears to me he was not traveling with family, because the news articles the past few days stated that they were trying to contact the family....they would not say that if the family were right there unless it was used as a stall tactic on Carnival to hold information to the public.

 

For those who say he ruined everybody's cruise shame on you!

 

1- He is a military officer served our country and still was....

2- I know if I were on that cruise my only concern was that he be found and alive I wouldn't care about Key West for a few hours.

3- These things happen everywhere all types of situation, plane cancellations and delays, trains derail, planes have issues, cars break down, emergencies happen, we just need to know its part of life and there is no way to avoid such things...so deal with it. Stressing that one's vacation is ruined is totally heartless, a situation happened a man died, something happened, his family is hearbroken, and your worried about a few hours in Key West? Im sorry thats plain heartless!

 

 

 

Ummm...NO! Shame on him! I don't care what his problems were, he jumped off a ship in the middle of the ocean. Most normal people don't do this. He deserved whatever he got. Yes, it's unfair to so many others that their cruise was disrupted because of this loser idiot. I would be pissed as well.

[cellyml12]

Where are the bleeding hearts in support of the SUSPECT in other cases that involved mental instability? When someone murders in cold blood, or commits HORRIBLE sexual acts, or animal cruelty... ummm, NORMAL people don't do those things. But in those cases we ALWAYS empathize with the victims (as we SHOULD) and cry for the public hanging, castration, and humiliation of the perp. Why in this case, without even knowing WHAT he did, is everyone giving him a 'pass' of "....ohhh, he was mentally unstable...". So if as the story unfolds, we find out that he did something unspeakable, will his 'mentally unstable' pass be withdrawn?

 

It appears that some here seem to think there were no victims (or perhaps the other cruisers don't fit your description of a victim), or some of you may even see HIM as the victim - but in my eyes, he was the PERPETRATOR and his actions impacted thousands of others. Why do we pick and choose when someone gets to use mental illness as an escape?:confused::confused::confused:

 

I agree with this statement 100%. I've been following this thread for several days. This guy jumped because he was avoiding security for something that was obviously going to get him into trouble & everyone is "awww, the poor guy". I have no pity for criminals, who try to escape punishment & kill themselves in the meantime. And I'm hear to tell you that perfectly mentally healthy people can do REAL STUPID S*** if they are drunk enough. Just saying...

[DragonMouse]

For those that think a vacation is not important...that people shouldn't whine because they missed Key West. What it it was a vacation they saved long and hard for, making a lot of sacrifices, what if they were celebrating being cancer free, what if this were going to be one of their LAST vacations, what if they were going to be married in Key West, what if someone was going to propose...you don't know how important Key West may be to other people.

 

The ol' boy screwed up! I'm sorry his family has to deal with this and I'm sorry for people who lost a good chunk of their plans because of darwinism...IF they find him (which it doesn't seem likely unfortunately) I hope they make him pay all these people restitution for his stupidity.

 

I'm sorry but I admit I'd be pretty upset too. Vacations don't come cheaply to me or two some of my friends who may work two or three jobs so the family can do something nice. I have a problem with people who are so disrespectful to OTHERS that they do something to screw it all up. Now I might have more sympathy for perhaps someone who became deathly ill or injured...that's a bit different...He might have been a "good guy" but he did something very selfish and stupid.

[grand isle joe]

for those that think a vacation is not important...that people shouldn't whine because they missed key west. What it it was a vacation they saved long and hard for, making a lot of sacrifices, what if they were celebrating being cancer free, what if this were going to be one of their last vacations, what if they were going to be married in key west, what if someone was going to propose...you don't know how important key west may be to other people.

 

The ol' boy screwed up! I'm sorry his family has to deal with this and i'm sorry for people who lost a good chunk of their plans because of darwinism...if they find him (which it doesn't seem likely unfortunately) i hope they make him pay all these people restitution for his stupidity.

 

I'm sorry but i admit i'd be pretty upset too. Vacations don't come cheaply to me or two some of my friends who may work two or three jobs so the family can do something nice. I have a problem with people who are so disrespectful to others that they do something to screw it all up. Now i might have more sympathy for perhaps someone who became deathly ill or injured...that's a bit different...he might have been a "good guy" but he did something very selfish and stupid.

 

.......bravo..........

[davids68girl]

While I will reserve comments on what actually happened... I know alot of soldiers (Army or Marine) that have PTSD.

Im glad the VA is recognizing PTSD more so than it did in the past.

 

A Marine is NOT a soldier. He is a Marine. :D (Wife of 20 yr retired Marine :p;))

[davids68girl]

I really get tired of folks giving military people a "pass" simply because they might suffer from PTSD. I don't know how much military service you have or how much combat you've seen but I've been involved in my share and I think PTSD is an excuse that has really been worn out. I know it happens but feel it is much more rare than Hollywood and the news media would have you believe. It seems now days whenever someone in the military does anything wrong everybody wants to blame PTSD when "stupid" or "drunk and crazy" might be the more likely cause.

 

Wow. I read through pages of heartless statements but this one takes the cake. I'm not saying that in this case the guy wasn't "stupid" or "drunk and crazy" but PTSD is real. You are blessed if you were AD and had combat duty and do not know anyone who has suffered or is suffering from PTSD.

[thistimeplease]

For those that think a vacation is not important...that people shouldn't whine because they missed Key West. What it it was a vacation they saved long and hard for, making a lot of sacrifices, what if they were celebrating being cancer free, what if this were going to be one of their LAST vacations, what if they were going to be married in Key West, what if someone was going to propose...you don't know how important Key West may be to other people.

 

The ol' boy screwed up! I'm sorry his family has to deal with this and I'm sorry for people who lost a good chunk of their plans because of darwinism...IF they find him (which it doesn't seem likely unfortunately) I hope they make him pay all these people restitution for his stupidity.

 

I'm sorry but I admit I'd be pretty upset too. Vacations don't come cheaply to me or two some of my friends who may work two or three jobs so the family can do something nice. I have a problem with people who are so disrespectful to OTHERS that they do something to screw it all up. Now I might have more sympathy for perhaps someone who became deathly ill or injured...that's a bit different...He might have been a "good guy" but he did something very selfish and stupid.

 

Again, there are no guarantees you will make a certain port on a cruise. If a port is that important fly there.

[travler27]

How do we know he "grabbed a life ring and jumped over the rail" ? Because CCL said so? Maybe the CCL security person had something to do with him going over the side? Wouldn't that change everything? If that's the case there will be no video tapes.

[Aquahound]

How do we know he "grabbed a life ring and jumped over the rail" ? Because CCL said so?

 

That part is true. Besides, I don't think that was part of CCLs official statement.

[Cruisegirl6]

thistimeplease- so true it states in our cruise contract changes can be made and ports can be missed and substituted..... if somebody truely wants to take a cruise to see a particular place then they should take a land based vacation to make sure they get to see it. Look at those other ships that missed their ports or itineraries were altered due to hurricane....same thing here they had to make changes and we were told.

 

Has anybody seen an official announcement of this situation on Carnival besides people that writing on its blogs about it?

 

I find it odd cruise critic not have this in its news either....like I say, more to the story than what we know.

[TGHRS]

Aquahound this one is for you. Not meant to hijack a thread but the topic fits and you would be an educated source for an opinion.

Do ships have a man overboard kit for this kind of situation? Something that would have salt water activated light, a Phosphorescent die packet, and an EPIRB unit. The security could have chucked this into the water along with the life rings.

If they don’t and it seems like they don’t. Would not a kit like this make sense to expedite the SAR of the victim?

Or, am I way off base?

[GraNanny]

thistimeplease- so true it states in our cruise contract changes can be made and ports can be missed and substituted..... if somebody truely wants to take a cruise to see a particular place then they should take a land based vacation to make sure they get to see it. Look at those other ships that missed their ports or itineraries were altered due to hurricane....same thing here they had to make changes and we were told.

 

Has anybody seen an official announcement of this situation on Carnival besides people that writing on its blogs about it?

 

I find it odd cruise critic not have this in its news either....like I say, more to the story than what we know.

 

Cruise Critic news from yesterday

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4965

[Aquahound]

Aquahound this one is for you. Not meant to hijack a thread but the topic fits and you would be an educated source for an opinion.

Do ships have a man overboard kit for this kind of situation? Something that would have salt water activated light, a Phosphorescent die packet, and an EPIRB unit. The security could have chucked this into the water along with the life rings.

If they don’t and it seems like they don’t. Would not a kit like this make sense to expedite the SAR of the victim?

Or, am I way off base?

 

I wouldnt call it a kit, but they do have a list of procedures. To start with, the life rings have strobe lights that activate in the water. If you ever noticed these before, they hang upside down. They activate when floating causes them to turn right side up.

 

Life rings also serve another purpose. The man overboard position is immediately saved on the bridge GPS. After a period of time, rescue boats mark the position of the floating rings. This determines set and drift and aids search efforts.

 

Problem is, if someone jumps from as high as the Lido deck holding a ring, there is no way he would be able to hold on to it upon impact and entering the water.

 

Here is a picture for reference.

 

[grand isle joe]

A Marine is NOT a soldier. He is a Marine. :D (Wife of 20 yr retired Marine :p;))

 

 

....Semper Fidelis.......and thank him for his service from all of us on CC. Check out www.marineheritage.org where you can get your loved on an engraved brick which will be installed at the musuem park in Va. Happy sailings.

[aurelius180]

Problem is, if someone jumps from as high as the Lido deck holding a ring, there is no way he would be able to hold on to it upon impact and entering the water.

 

Here is a picture for reference.

 

 

 

Thanks for the info Paul! What would happen to the person who jumped from the moving cruise ship? Are they pushed away or pulled towards the hull? How long does it take the cruise ship to adjust course and return to the area where the person jumped?

[TGHRS]

Thank you,

 

I figured the they would try to track via GPS I glad to hear it is an accepted procedure.

 

I noticed the 35 hour and reported 2700+ Square mile search. Is that an accepted search for all instances?

 

It is sad to say but I would think there is a lot to take into consideration before ending a search. Waves, water temperature, currents, wind.

I am sure there are more. But 2700 Sq Mi seems like a huge amount of area to be looking.

[IAMCRZIN]

I'm eager to read passenger accounts of what they saw and heard aboard. There is a roll call, so there are CC members aboard. I'd like to know what buzz circulated around the ship.

 

On another note, I urge folks to have a little better understanding of one another. It is perfectly natural to have different reactions to this. Anger, sorrow, whatever. One is not wrong for these feelings, only wrong when bashing others for theirs.

 

Looking for the *Love* button on this one!!!

[Cruisegirl6]

GraNanny yes I had a senior moment, the head is already forgetting lol thanks

 

Thanks Aquahound!!

[Aquahound]

First delay would be the amount of time it takes to get the word to the bridge. I imagine this case would have been very quick via the security's radio. The turn around takes time. I really don't know how long it takes, and I don't know if Fascination has the more maneuverable azipods. I know some ships in that class have them, but don't know which ones.

 

Weather is a huge factor. The white caps caused by rougher seas really impede the rescuers views and if the victim is wearing dark clothes, forget it.

 

Search efforts tend to go above and beyond. The search area doesn't surprise me knowing the seas and currents in that area. This would have been near or in the Gulfstream.

 

As far as go under or float, good question. It depends where he entered the water alongside the ship. Your thoughts, Ed, are on track. It is possible he went under the ship.

[cruzn buckeye]

I am sure his family is grieving. However, only one person is responsible for their pain. Only one person caused it.

 

Of course he was selfish and his act affected the lives of 2000 other people.

You know, you really are not worth any response from anyone here on this board... you are disgusting to put a few hours on an island above someones life... very disgusting.

[gliner]

You know, you really are not worth any response from anyone here on this board... you are disgusting to put a few hours on an island above someones life... very disgusting.

 

I do believe there is this thing called an ignore button. I suggest you use it since you have such delicate sensibilities.

[grand isle joe]

You know, you really are not worth any response from anyone here on this board... you are disgusting to put a few hours on an island above someones life... very disgusting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

............but YOU responded?........................hmmmm......:cool:

[cruzn buckeye]

I'm sorry but I totally disagree.

 

While it is a sad situation and I can feel for the family, there are so many people on board whose vacation was ruined. And no, I don't mean those people on their 59th cruise who will just rebook next month to see the missed port. I'm talking about the family that saves money for years to take their only vacation. Or the older couple on their last trip together. Whatever the reason most people work extremely hard for their money and their well deserved vacation time was tainted by this person's stupid and thoughtless decision. If this were a suicide it would obviously still put a damper on everyone's trip and tug and their heartstrings, but it sounds like this was NOT the situation.

 

Anyway say what you will about "coldhearted selfish insensitive jerks that missed a couple of hours in Key West" but it is possible to have compassion for the loss of life and still be utterly upset by the situation that ruined their cruise.

And I am sorry that missing a couple of hours at one port would actually ruin the cruise. Seriously?? Not much of a cruise if that is all it takes to ruin it... now is it??

[jonathansburden]

As far as go under or float, good question. It depends where he entered the water alongside the ship. Your thoughts, Ed, are on track. It is possible he went under the ship.

 

This sound like the most terrifying thing imaginable.

[grand isle joe]

I do believe there is this thing called an ignore button. I suggest you use it since you have such delicate sensibilities.

 

 

 

 

...it may be too tough for Woody Hayes to figure out in his "advanced" years.......;):D