Channel 4, Monday 01 October 20:00, Cruises Undercover: The Truth Below Deck

[Sailaway487]

Dispatches next Monday on Channel 4 is about the workers on board a cruise ship, and the conditions they live and work in. Some info from Channel 4 here:

 

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/episode-guide/series-111/episode-4

 

Trailer:

 

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/articles/cruises-undercover-trail

 

It seems that the majority of undercover filming has been on board Celebrity Cruises' Celebrity Eclipse. They've responded, claiming it is a 'biased documentary':

 

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2012/09/27/41753/celebrity+cruises+saddened+over+biased+documentary.html

 

It seems that what they find is working conditions far below the minimum standard in the UK. I have always wondered what the crew areas are like, and how much time they do actually get off and are able to get away from the ship. As we know they do work very hard and always seem willing to help and provide and excellent standard of service, and always seem to have a smile on their faces. I for one will watch though and I hope that Thomson (or whichever company is responsible) treat their staff well on board. However, I have fears that perhaps this documentary will tell otherwise and that the amount they are told to work and the amount of money they receive for it is very low.

[kruzseeka]

I spotted this too and think it may provide some very interesting and perhaps some rather uncomfortable watching for us. whilst we all love our cruises and especially getting a good deal into the bargain, I don't think we would want that to be at the expense of exploitation of the crew.

 

I hope it's not too bad - and if so I sincerely hope it's rather better on Thomson (I've always thought so but may be deluding myself). No doubt it will generate some interesting debate on here after transmisssion. :rolleyes:

[geomagot]

we once met our cabin steward whilst ashore, the same cabin steward that is in the corridor ready and waiting to do our rooms at 6am in the morning and still there at 11pm at night 7 days a week....she said to me 'I get 2 hours off during the day between 2pm & 4pm and i can do anything i like during that time I can even go ashore if I want to' she made it sound like somehow she felt privileged for getting this amount of time off and being able to anything she wanted like go ashore...like this wasn’t the norm

 

another cabin steward we spoke to said to us 'Oh I'm going home tomorrow I've been onboard 10 months and my contract is up' I said you must be really looking forward to going home, he said 'no! not really, even if the the ship renews my contract in 2 months time (its not a given that they will) there’s no work at home for me

 

and a waiter once said to me 'I have been working on ships for 19 years as soon as i got married i started working on ships, ive only seen my wife and son for 8 weeks each year since then, he’s 19 years old now and grown up’

 

I once heard that thomsons have a crew welfare program, where they help a crew member who may have to return home suddenly, or they may purchase computers and Nintendo’s for the crew mess or a few bicycles so that they can get around while ashore, I also heard that the money raised from the weekly raffle for the illustrated chart of the cruise goes directly to this fund to help the crew…..dont know if this is true or not?

[Julessmiles]

we once met our cabin steward whilst ashore, the same cabin steward that is in the corridor ready and waiting to do our rooms at 6am in the morning and still there at 11pm at night 7 days a week....she said to me 'I get 2 hours off during the day between 2pm & 4pm and i can do anything i like during that time I can even go ashore if I want to' she made it sound like somehow she felt privileged for getting this amount of time off and being able to anything she wanted like go ashore...like this wasn’t the norm

 

another cabin steward we spoke to said to us 'Oh I'm going home tomorrow I've been onboard 10 months and my contract is up' I said you must be really looking forward to going home, he said 'no! not really, even if the the ship renews my contract in 2 months time (its not a given that they will) there’s no work at home for me

 

and a waiter once said to me 'I have been working on ships for 19 years as soon as i got married i started working on ships, ive only seen my wife and son for 8 weeks each year since then, he’s 19 years old now and grown up’

 

I once heard that thomsons have a crew welfare program, where they help a crew member who may have to return home suddenly, or they may purchase computers and Nintendo’s for the crew mess or a few bicycles so that they can get around while ashore, I also heard that the money raised from the weekly raffle for the illustrated chart of the cruise goes directly to this fund to help the crew…..dont know if this is true or not?

 

When we were onboard Celebration this year B2B, they did an auction both weeks of a the map that one of the Filipino crew had drawn some beautiful pictures on - the "proceeds" of this were to go to the Crew Welfare Fund - both weeks they raised over £500 for the map.

 

I work with a lot of Filipino staff and it is the same with them; they work for a whole year then take their 6 weeks off to go home to their families. There are no jobs - or very, very low paid jobs for them at home so they are grateful of the work so they can send money home to their families. They work as many hours as they possibly can and are always asking and willing to do overtime. We have a big Filipino community in the town where I live and they really do make the most of their lives here, as they do onboard ship; they are always having parties, enjoying their singing & karaokes and are very hospitable lovely people and welcome you into their homes.

 

One of our staff members who has worked in the UK for 4 years has recently married her husband who lives in the US and they are both living apart - they see each other only once or twice a year. Sad as it sounds, it seems to be a way of life for them. It saddens me when they first come over to the UK and have left their children at home with the grandparents to bring them up; it is often the women that do this & they also leave their husbands behind. It is not happening so much now of course with the tightening of the rules for overseas staff coming to the UK so I guess more of them will be going to other countries or to cruise ships.

[Noodlesoup]

On one of the cycle trips we did we were joined by 2 of the waiters who we had a great time with. It was lovely to spend some time with them - not sure how they then put in an evening shift after that as I was absolutely cream crackered!!!

[topsey130]

 

 

 

I once heard that thomsons have a crew welfare program, where they help a crew member who may have to return home suddenly, or they may purchase computers and Nintendo’s for the crew mess or a few bicycles so that they can get around while ashore, I also heard that the money raised from the weekly raffle for the illustrated chart of the cruise goes directly to this fund to help the crew…..dont know if this is true or not?

 

Before we left our cruise on the Dream earlier this year we made a point of going to reception and making a donation to the welfare fund, the reception staff seemed, lost for words as i don't think this happens to often....i know that we will make a point now of making a contribution on every cruise we take where the line operates a welfare fund.

[dpm dave]

I worked for a time at Dover Harbour as a baggage handler at the cruise terminal, as a perk we used to go to the crew mess for our breakfast and dinner and eat with the crew, on all the different cruise companies the vast majority of the crew are philipino. When we asked them about there life back home quite a lot of them told us that they earn enough money to buy their own property outright, have pools, gardeners and even maids. When we used to tell them how much money we used to earn doing the baggage they said they could live like kings on that amount.

Yes they work long hours, but those of us that still have jobs do aswell, i work 5 x 12 hour shifts sometimes even longer.

[kruzseeka]

I worked for a time at Dover Harbour as a baggage handler at the cruise terminal, as a perk we used to go to the crew mess for our breakfast and dinner and eat with the crew, on all the different cruise companies the vast majority of the crew are philipino. When we asked them about there life back home quite a lot of them told us that they earn enough money to buy their own property outright, have pools, gardeners and even maids. When we used to tell them how much money we used to earn doing the baggage they said they could live like kings on that amount.

Yes they work long hours, but those of us that still have jobs do aswell, i work 5 x 12 hour shifts sometimes even longer.

 

 

Yes, this is the impression we have too. Over the years we've got to know quite a few of the crew (especially the waiters and bar staff) and when we have returned and made enquiries about those who aren't on board of course some are on vacation but we've heard of so many who have stayed in the Phillipines and bought a business after working for years on the ship to earn enough to do that.

 

I'll never forget speaking to one of the classical musicians on Celebration years ago who told us he had previously worked for Holland America and was scathing about them in terms of employers. He said he was paid exactly double by Thomson. If I remember correctly that was £2000 p.m. all in and tax free because they were at sea - this was about six years ago. He was very satisfied with this although he admitted being away from home for long periods was hard.

 

Of course the musicians have different terms and conditions from the crew members who work so hard and have incredibly long hours but I always hope that they too are better treated and paid than on some other cruise-lines where I've heard horrendous tales about their remuneration (hence the practice of compulsory tipping).

 

It would be good to know just what they do earn and how that compares across cruise companies as I would feel very uncomfortable travelling on a ship where the work-force was being badly exploited and I must say it would affect my decisions in terms of who I'd choose to cruise with. I might be kidding myself - and I'm sure Thomson crew members do have grouses and complaints (don't we all when at work!) but I do hope the positive, cheerful and friendly atmosphere on board reflects a better treated and relatively happy crew because of better remuneration.

 

But as you say dave, pay is all relative and if they are prepared to make the sacrifice clearly their money goes a long way at home and I trust this makes it all worthwhile for them.

[geomagot]

If I remember correctly that was £2000 p.m. all in and tax free because they were at sea

 

TBH this is more than some British squaddies serving overseas are earning

[Scarey Mary]

Not long ago there was a program on - Undercover Boss which had one of the big bosses of Stenna Lines going undercover to see what conditions were like for the crew etc. He said that the Filipinos got paid £2.56 an hour for an 11 hour day :eek: did 6 months on and had 2 months off. This was the standard rate for the industry.

Just cannot comment on this it is so wrong. If they work on a British ship they should have the same rates of pay etc as people on shore or at least the minimum wage.

When we have spoken to different crew members they have all said that Thomson is a good employer so I really hope this is true.

When we were on the Celebraton this year Richard the CD mentioned something about the Crew Welfare Fund but I didn't take much notice but now after reading about being able to donate to it at reception we will do that in future.

[Grez]

Not long ago there was a program on - Undercover Boss which had one of the big bosses of Stenna Lines going undercover to see what conditions were like for the crew etc. He said that the Filipinos got paid £2.56 an hour for an 11 hour day :eek: did 6 months on and had 2 months off. This was the standard rate for the industry.

Just cannot comment on this it is so wrong. If they work on a British ship they should have the same rates of pay etc as people on shore or at least the minimum wage.

When we have spoken to different crew members they have all said that Thomson is a good employer so I really hope this is true.

When we were on the Celebraton this year Richard the CD mentioned something about the Crew Welfare Fund but I didn't take much notice but now after reading about being able to donate to it at reception we will do that in future.

Not sure there are any 'British' ships anymore.

[geomagot]

I dont think we even have an aircraft carrier any more do we?:(

[Scarey Mary]

Not sure there are any 'British' ships anymore.

 

True but you know what I mean.

[gunn3rs3]

Not long ago there was a program on - Undercover Boss which had one of the big bosses of Stenna Lines going undercover to see what conditions were like for the crew etc. He said that the Filipinos got paid £2.56 an hour for an 11 hour day :eek: did 6 months on and had 2 months off. This was the standard rate for the industry.

Just cannot comment on this it is so wrong. If they work on a British ship they should have the same rates of pay etc as people on shore or at least the minimum wage.

When we have spoken to different crew members they have all said that Thomson is a good employer so I really hope this is true.

When we were on the Celebraton this year Richard the CD mentioned something about the Crew Welfare Fund but I didn't take much notice but now after reading about being able to donate to it at reception we will do that in future.

 

Hi Mary,Nice to see your still around hows the knee? any way I believe all the profits from the Cruise Talent Show dvd go to the welfare fund, its the worse production wise dvd of the crew we have ever seen, but dont mind the money going to a good cause as you know all the crew are brilliant and if this helps them out in times of need so be it.

[geomagot]

I have noticed that on P&O you always see a long line of passengers queuing up on the last day to remove the $12 a day service charge.......maybe these passengers were tipping the staff individually in cash?.....maybe not?

[kruzseeka]

Just watched it. :( Please tell me Thomson treat their crew better than this (at least they don't hide behind tips being an element of their pay so that's to their credit!). We know crew work incredibly long hours but the rate of pay on this crusie line!! And the rip-offs too. Beggars belief.

[Sailaway487]

Just watched it. :( Please tell me Thomson treat their crew better than this (at least they don't hide behind tips being an element of their pay so that's to their credit!). We know crew work incredibly long hours but the rate of pay on this crusie line!! And the rip-offs too. Beggars belief.

 

Not watched it yet but recorded it. Guessing Celebrity Cruises haven't come out in a good light then. Hopefully Thomson are better employees. Wouldn't surprise me if a sudden change in the operation of tips is made by the industry as a whole.

[Julessmiles]

Absolutely shocking - not good PR / publicity for Celebrity! I wonder how many hours a day the staff work on the Thomson Ships as when we were on for 2 weeks, all the waiters we had worked every day without a day of - I really do hope they get some days off some times....

[Barb46]

I will find it very hard to enjoy myself on a cruise and i am now having second thought wether to book or not ? knowing that the staff are being exploted this way its horrendous that this can happen in this day and age and makes me think why thomson and other companys employ many of their staff from poorer countrys i dont think thomson are any different ? :mad:

[Sailaway487]

I suppose with Thomson, is it them themselves that are involved in the crewing of the ships? I know Thomson staff the Destination Services and Future Cruises departments and Peel do the Entertainment side of things, but what about the majority of the rest of the staff. Are Thomson involved in this side of things? If not, then I also fear that similar operations might be in use. By what people are saying on here regarding the show tonight, I do hope not.

[Sailaway487]

Out of interest, here is the thread on Celebrity Cruises currently regarding it:

 

http://cruiseforums.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1712448&page=5

[Barb46]

I suppose with Thomson, is it them themselves that are involved in the crewing of the ships? I know Thomson staff the Destination Services and Future Cruises departments and Peel do the Entertainment side of things, but what about the majority of the rest of the staff. Are Thomson involved in this side of things? If not, then I also fear that similar operations might be in use. By what people are saying on here regarding the show tonight, I do hope not.

 

ditto !!!!

[kalos]

Just watched it. :( Please tell me Thomson treat their crew better than this (at least they don't hide behind tips being an element of their pay so that's to their credit!). We know crew work incredibly long hours but the rate of pay on this crusie line!! And the rip-offs too. Beggars belief.

 

I would like to think so . Yes they all work long hours onboard Thomson ships but that seems to be an unfortunate part of most

of the hospitality industry.

A few years back my sister used to work in a top rated local hotel, she would head out for work around 5am and was lucky to be

back home this side of midnight .Granted she got a day off per week and was better paid under UK pay rules but was still on a poor pay .

I have seen cleaners in Benidorm hotels first thing in the mornings and amazed to see them later and the wrong side of midnight still working .

Mrs Kalos became friends with a waitress on the Destiny . She was on the poolside bars from the morning until mid afternoon then moving into the Can Can from it opening until it closed at night . When in port we would see her go off ship with her workmates ,so we know they got time off.

When the Destiny was going she told us ,she " would sign up for the Spirit , she had worked before but was not too keen on working the Majesty ."

Mrs Kalos was worried and asked her what she would do,should she leave the ships ?

She just laughed and told us not to worry as she had made good money and was going to enjoy herself for a while.

She has not gone on any ships but from what I see of my Mrs Facebook , when she logs onto her page ,She is traveling around Europe

and enjoying the time away from the ships .

She tells us if she goes back on the ships ,then chances are it would be Thomson again as she thinks they are good employers to work for . Which is more than can be said for others if tonights programe was a true account of how they operate :confused:.

[Gelbel]

Our lovely cabin maid on our recent Celebration cruise said she worked 10 hours a day and change over day was often 17.

 

I was chatting to her when we came back from being ashore and she was about to go for a kip. Judging the time I think her core hours must've been 07:30 to 13:30 then 18:00 to 22:00.

[geomagot]

all cruise ships crew are supplied by agencies, these agencies recruit in places like India and the Philippines, peel (a British agency) recruit dancers and musicians often in places like Brazil/Philippines How the agencies get paid I don’t know? but they do get paid someway or other?

 

But, don’t beat yourselves up about it, I’m not defending exploitation by cruise companies/agencies, everyone should earn a living wage, but it just a matter of perspective....yes the crew work hard sometimes in poor conditions, a wage of less than £400 a month sounds truly miserable to us by our perspective, there is no getting away from the fact that despite recession/unemployment etc we are a rich country

 

we have all read/heard about the garment industry in India/China but we still demand cheap throw-away fashion, you can buy a T shirt in primark for £1.50 taking in the cost of the cotton/transport/distributors/primarks profit margins this means that whoever is stitching this garment earns about 9p per shirt in India....we all know about this really don’t we? But, are we willing to pay more for a t shirt? One of my daughter’s school friends (a girl from Kosovo) once said to her ‘how come you own so much stuff? Do you need it all?’

 

most of us have at sometime suspected that cruise ships crew conditions are not great, haven’t we, however, the crew on cruise ships despite their long hours and low pay do feel that they are the lucky ones, how many garments would they have to stitch at home to earn that same wage?

 

the majority of the crew are very young, their culture dictates that the young ones go out and earn a wage to support their families, this sounds very harsh and unfair to us but does have benefits, a benefit that we don’t have here, for instance 'There is no such thing as an old folks home' in India or Egypt or the Philippines, when the time comes those young ones will (hopefully) expect to take their turns to be supported

 

have you noticed how the crew always seem to make the best of it despite the conditions (the kind of working conditions that if we had to endure it, we would all go down with stress & depression) they look after each other, they treat each other like they would family, they even refer to each other as cousins and they work hard to enjoy their lives, their own quality of life is often something money cant buy for them, only their communities can provide this.....another benefit that we don’t have much of here