QE 2 a sad end

[loubetti]

I hate to say this but whenever I think of the QE2 I immediately have visions of a ship that was forever showing oodles of exhaust smoke from her funnel.

 

Yes she has a history but has anyone seriously considered the maintenance costs of just keeping any large retired ship looking ship-shape? I hear that it costs millions of dollars a year just to keep a retired US carrier looking presentable. To maintain a cruise ship in the conditions she would be in if operational must be scary expensive.

 

Once a ship becomes too expensive to operate then should it be disposed of in the most economical way?

 

I would love to see a warship preserved from the Falklands era but if we cannot afford that then what chance has a large cruise ship?

 

I don't recall oodles of smoke from her funnel, and I've sailed her over a dozen times.

 

We've saved a lot of war ships, just one example being the Intrepid in New York city. Also QE2 did serve in the Falklands war as a troop ship.

 

Click on this link:

 

http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/preserve.htm

 

Granted, most of these are small vessels, but look for the aircraft carriers and battleships on the list. There are 7 battleships and 4 aircraft carriers listed. There are 4 more aircraft carriers for which preservation is being attempted.

 

How about Queen Mary? Granted, many financial problems over the years, but she survives, and I spent a splendid 5 days on her.

 

How about Rotterdam 5? Recently sold, but not for scrap.

 

I think we can do better than sending her to the breakers!

[cruiser1955]

Cunard have posted this on their facebook page

 

"We have noted the messages of understandable concern with regards to the recent article in the Daily Mail with reference to QE2. We remain in close contact with Dubai and can reassure you that to the very best of our knowledge this story is pure speculation - one of a number of stories and rumours as we have seen over recent months. Our best advice would be to ignore the story.

 

Best regards,

Cunard Line."

[iandjm]

Cunard have posted this on their facebook page

 

"We have noted the messages of understandable concern with regards to the recent article in the Daily Mail with reference to QE2. We remain in close contact with Dubai and can reassure you that to the very best of our knowledge this story is pure speculation - one of a number of stories and rumours as we have seen over recent months. Our best advice would be to ignore the story.

 

Best regards,

Cunard Line."

 

Wouldn't it be great if Cunard/Carnival supported the bid to bring QE2 back to London. Great PR and the only responsible thing to do.

[glojo]

I don't recall oodles of smoke from her funnel, and I've sailed her over a dozen times.

 

We've saved a lot of war ships, just one example being the Intrepid in New York city. Also QE2 did serve in the Falklands war as a troop ship.

A sailor's slight exaggeration as any smoke is WAY, way too much smoke and in 1987 the QE2 was re-engined. I only ever saw her at sea during the very early 1970's and it was during this period my remarks are based.

 

America is now starting to struggle to pay for the upkeep of the 'museum' ships and we should remember that the US show a far greater interest in their military history and the conserving of iconic vessels, tanks or aircraft. The carrier in New York being an excellent example.

 

I have also heard how our government have suggested the Illustrious will be conserved but does anyone seriously believe this? That ship has no history, has not achieved anything and is not even a real aircraft carrier :)

 

I hate these 'through deck cruisers' To show how insane our government is, this ship is sailing the high seas devoid of any fixed wing aircraft!! She is in commission, operational and Great Britain does not have a single fixed wing aircraft capable of operating from her. To get around this embarrassing situation they have stuck a badge on the funnel of this warship and reclassified it as a Helicopter and Commando carrier.

 

If we are talking about conserving a troopship of the Falklands era then the Canberra deserves that honour and more besides. That ship went where others dared not tread and MUCH respect to her for this. Who will ever forget the amazing footage of that ship anchored in San Carlos Water with enemy aircraft roaring by overhead?

 

Why would I nominate Canberra over the QE2

 

At 0520 hours that morning, Canberra weighed anchor and entered San Carlos Water to begin disembarking her troops amongst repeated air attacks from Argentine aircraft. The men of 42 Commando were the reserve force for HMS Intrepid's 3 Para, and they began to leave Canberra just after 1000hrs that morning.

 

 

The air attacks on the ships in San Carlos Water continued until 1600hrs, after which time HMS Ardent had been sunk and HMS Argonaut damaged. At 1900 hours, the order was given to disembark the remaining troops from Canberra, and at 2242 hours she weighed anchor and headed out of San Carlos Water and North Falkland Sound. The troops were ashore and fighting to regain control of the British Islands. Canberra had done her job and landed around 2,000 troops without a casualty and without getting hit herself.

 

She was not finished yet, but she was lucky to be alive. How the Argentine pilots could have missed the ship was one of the day's mysteries. The QE2 had also been requisitioned as a troop ship and was heading south, as Canberra continued to steam in her 'box' 170 nautical miles north north east of Port Stanley. The order was given by the SNO to head for Grytviken in South Georgia to rendezvous with the Cunard flagship and cross-deck her troops. Canberra would be going back to San Carlos Water, whilst the QE2, considered too valuable to be send inshore, would be going back to Ascension or England.

 

During the afternoon of 27th May Canberra let go her port anchor at Grytviken. QE2 arrived at 2000 hours after being delayed by fog and ice, and shortly after the tug Typhoon began transferring. Cross decking continued for most of the following day, then, shortly before 2100 hours, Canberra again weighed anchor and headed back to the Falklands with the cavalry on board. It would take her until Wednesday 2 June to get back to San Carlos Water, over 1,500 miles through heavy seas.

 

As the day dawned foggy, the troops began to disembark in small landing craft assisted by four of the ship's own tenders. By the time darkness fell, destoring supplies had still not finished so the SNO made the unpopular decision to have Canberra remain at anchor overnight to finish off on the next morning. By the end of Thursday, there had been over 100 loads taken by helicopter and the ship was empty of stores as well as people. She weighed anchor and sailed at 1800 hours with just 620 souls on board headed for a large area of open ocean around 400 miles from the Falklands. On the 14th, she received orders to return to San Carlos Water to pick up prisoners of war (POW's). The Argentines had surrendered and the war was over!

 

Canberra entered San Carlos Water for the third time on Tuesday 15 June and let go both anchors. Just after 1400 hours, the first landing craft containing 100 Welsh Guards came alongside, followed throughout the remainder of the day by three more containing 1,121 POW's. By 0200 hours the next morning, all had been searched and processed and just before 0800hrs she weighed anchor and sailed for Port William (Canberra's draft was too deep to sail directly into Port Stanley) to embark the remaining prisoners. More troops were brought on board to act as guards, followed by the rest of the 3,046 POW's.

 

On Friday 18 June, she set course for Puerto Madryn, Argentina, where she arrived the next day and off-loaded her POW's.

She would then be taking as many UK troops back home from the Falklands as she could carry, meaning men of 40, 42 and also 45 Commando Royal Marines. Canberra reached Nab Tower, Southampton's pilot station, at around 0800 hours on Sunday 11 July 1982. At the Nab, small boats of every shape and size appeared to escort Canberra to her 106 berth home. Aircraft flew overhead, and the ship was briefly joined by the Prince of Wales and other dignitaries who arrived by helicopter on her midships flight deck.

 

More and more boats, firetugs, passenger craft and even canoes came out to greet the ship. Those on board the tired, rust-streaked Canberra climbed to occupy every possible vantage point, from sitting on lifeboats to hanging out of gun-port doors. Every few minutes Canberra's steam whistle would boom and a chorus of hoots and whistles could be heard among the now huge flotilla. Homemade banners were tied to railings and held up for the TV cameras, while those on the riverbanks and quayside waved and cheered. As the ship neared her berth, a mass of people (the police said later they lost count after 35,000 passed through the dock gates) could be seen along the quay, many relatives of returning marines, waving flags and crying. The band of the Royal Marines began to play Land of Hope & Glory as the ship got closer to 106 berth, making 2,500 Marines and those on shore waiting for them, very happy.

 

After 94 days at sea, Canberra had steamed 25,245 without a mechanical fault of any note, carried thousands of troops into battle, repatriated over 4,000 prisoners of war, treated 172 wounded soldiers and sailors, and won the hearts of a nation. She docked at 1100 hours, and within three hours all her passengers had disembarked. Two days later, P&O bid a fond farewell to the 129 British volunteer seamen who had replaced the Asian members of crew for the duration.

 

I stand by my nomination however of HMS Plymouth as being the most worthy Falklands ship that should be conserved but we just cannot afford it :(

[Finch]

I hope that the news from Stephen Payne is certain, and the QE2 will spend retirement as a hotel. It would even be better as a hotel in England, but anything but the scrap yard... I have wonderful memories of her...

[Cruachan]

If we are talking about conserving a troopship of the Falklands era then the Canberra deserves that honour and more besides. That ship went where others dared not tread and MUCH respect to her for this. Who will ever forget the amazing footage of that ship anchored in San Carlos Water with enemy aircraft roaring by overhead?

 

While I agree with almost everything you have written I'm afraid "conserving" Canberra is no longer an option. She was broken up at Gadani Beach in October 1997.

 

J

[loubetti]

A sailor's slight exaggeration as any smoke is WAY, way too much smoke and in 1987 the QE2 was re-engined. I only ever saw her at sea during the very early 1970's and it was during this period my remarks are based.

 

America is now starting to struggle to pay for the upkeep of the 'museum' ships and we should remember that the US show a far greater interest in their military history and the conserving of iconic vessels, tanks or aircraft. The carrier in New York being an excellent example.

 

I have also heard how our government have suggested the Illustrious will be conserved but does anyone seriously believe this? That ship has no history, has not achieved anything and is not even a real aircraft carrier :)

 

I hate these 'through deck cruisers' To show how insane our government is, this ship is sailing the high seas devoid of any fixed wing aircraft!! She is in commission, operational and Great Britain does not have a single fixed wing aircraft capable of operating from her. To get around this embarrassing situation they have stuck a badge on the funnel of this warship and reclassified it as a Helicopter and Commando carrier.

 

If we are talking about conserving a troopship of the Falklands era then the Canberra deserves that honour and more besides. That ship went where others dared not tread and MUCH respect to her for this. Who will ever forget the amazing footage of that ship anchored in San Carlos Water with enemy aircraft roaring by overhead?

 

Why would I nominate Canberra over the QE2

 

 

 

I stand by my nomination however of HMS Plymouth as being the most worthy Falklands ship that should be conserved but we just cannot afford it :(

 

Canberra is scrapped. Long gone. :(

[Salacia]

A report from Shipping Times titled "Ignore QE2 Scrapping Story Says Cunard"

can be found here: http://www.shippingtimes.co.uk/item_10443.html

 

But a story from Trade Arabia seems to indicates otherwise. See http://www.tradearabia.com/news/TTN_227867.html

[jenno10388]

why would Dubai reject an offer of 70 mil pounds to bring the ship back to london yet accept 20 mil pounds to have her scrapped? makes no sense..

 

The return to london offer has been the best offer yet as far as im concerned, Dubai needs to let go of their egos, admit defeat in successfully doing something decent with Qe2 and hand her over to the london bidder.

 

steve

[Ray66]

"According to reports, under the sale agreement, it cannot be re-sold for at least 10 years."

 

If that is true, then presumably it couldn't have gone to the "QE2 London" bid for another six years.

[glojo]

Canberra is scrapped. Long gone. :(

Yup and I am guessing the QE2 will beshortlyy joining her in that port up in the sky. Life goes on and we will see other great liners come and go. Can you imagine the following the Queen Mary 2 is getting? Are they already struggling to keep her well maintained whilst still in commission and generating oodles of money?

[mainelycruising]

It may sound daft, but to do for her what Rotterdam did for the Holland America 'Grande Dame' , SS Rotterdam, would be a fitting tribute to this ship and, dare I say it, to her Namesake? To be moored near the Houses of Parliament and used as London accommodation for all MPs and Civil Servants who receive Govenment Housing subsidies might give her a useful life, as well as serve as a meaningful tourist attraction and Maritime Museum.

 

After all, Britain did return the SS Great Britain to its shores............

 

"Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country"

[capnpugwash]

It may sound daft, but to do for her what Rotterdam did for the Holland America 'Grande Dame' , SS Rotterdam, would be a fitting tribute to this ship and, dare I say it, to her Namesake? To be moored near the Houses of Parliament and used as London accommodation for all MPs and Civil Servants who receive Govenment Housing subsidies might give her a useful life, as well as serve as a meaningful tourist attraction and Maritime Museum.

 

After all, Britain did return the SS Great Britain to its shores............

 

"Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country"

 

The nine fixed bridges across the River Thames to the east of the Houses of Parliament would prove quite an obstacle to your cunning plan.:eek:

[Cruachan]

...To be moored near the Houses of Parliament and used as London accommodation for all MPs and Civil Servants who receive Govenment Housing subsidies might give her a useful life, as well as serve as a meaningful tourist attraction and Maritime Museum.

 

Good idea - watching her go through Tower Bridge and under London Bridge, Southwark Bridge, The Millenium Bridge, Blackfriars Bridge, Waterloo Bridge and Westminster Bridge would really be fun. :eek:

 

J

[Cruachan]

Apologies Cap'n. I must have been composing my reply when you fired off your much more concise and accurate version :D

 

J

[jenno10388]

Not everyone knows London like the back of their hand Pugwash & crauachan..

[AstroExeter]

HMS Illustrious is indeed a "through deck cruiser" but suited the Harriers very well. I sailed several times on her and was responsible for the Digital Radio Direction Finding system on board. Happy days!:)

[capnpugwash]

Not everyone knows London like the back of their hand Pugwash & crauachan..

 

So it seems!:)

[pepperrn]

It seems to me that anyone suggesting that QE2 moor near the Palace of Westminster went to the Costa school of navigation...

[Jim Avery]

I vote for S'oton. Spend the night on QE2 then walk across the quay to QM2.:D

[pepperrn]

I vote for S'oton. Spend the night on QE2 then walk across the quay to QM2.:D

And see how Cunard's ships have improved over 40+ years :D :) :eek: .

[mainelycruising]

The nine fixed bridges across the River Thames to the east of the Houses of Parliament would prove quite an obstacle to your cunning plan.:eek:

 

Perhaps Baldrick will have an answer!

[retafcruiser]

And see how Cunard's ships have improved over 40+ years :D :) :eek: .

Just my opinion - the new ships pale in comparison to the QE2. In spite of what Carnival/Cunard want you to believe, the QM2 is no real ocean liner.

[pepperrn]

Just my opinion - the new ships pale in comparison to the QE2. In spite of what Carnival/Cunard want you to believe, the QM2 is no real ocean liner.

Then neither is/was QE2.

Both are liners, or neither are.

Both are also cruise ships.

The last major "pure" transatlantic liners included the SS France, and look how successful she was as a liner... Thankfully Cunard did not make the same mistake. They built a combination liner/cruise ship in reply and launched her as QE2.

Please tell me in which ways QE2 was physically superior to QM2 (other than top speed), thank you. I'd be interested to read of your personal observations onboard QE2 and on QM2, and how they differ, by way of comparison.

 

All best wishes.

[Louise D]

Then neither is/was QE2.

Both are liners, or neither are.

Both are also cruise ships.

The last major "pure" transatlantic liners included the SS France, and look how successful she was as a liner... Thankfully Cunard did not make the same mistake. They built a combination liner/cruise ship in reply and launched her as QE2.

Please tell me in which ways QE2 was physically superior to QM2 (other than top speed), thank you. I'd be interested to read of your personal observations onboard QE2 and on QM2, and how they differ, by way of comparison.

 

All best wishes.

 

Hello Pepper - I hope you had a wonderful voyage.

 

I think that the true liners were built mainly with an eye to speed, at the expense of stability, which explains the terrible seakeeping of the old Queen Mary in the first year after launch and the need for urgent modifications.

 

The QE2 was far less stable than QM2. I would never have travelled in the supplementary "dog boxes" added on to QE2 on the sun and signal decks because of the lack of stability, even though these were the top QG cabins. On the QE2, even down on deck one, the glassware and movable objects were regularly stowed on the floor by the stewardess during the turn-down service at night - I would say at least 30% of the time. On the QM2 this is very rare.

 

Louise