Russian Homophobia

[ILUVMTL]

Apparently the Russian Duma is poised to pass a law outlawing "gay propaganda" which means gay venues, organizations, events, meetings, literature, etc. If this law is indeed passed I suggest writing to cruise lines that visit Russian ports and suggesting that if they want our business they should stop visiting Russian ports until this law is rescinded. Russia is a fascinating destination but not at the price of accepting its homophobia! We do have clout vis-a-vis our tourist dollars. Let's use it! You might copy your letter or email to the Russian Ambassador as well. Solidarity forever...the Russians should understand that!!!

[shepp]

Last year, RSVP ported in St. Petersburg, where a comparable law was already underway. I started a thread here about that and the reaction was...mixed.

 

I can't believe that cruiselines will change their itineraries on those grounds...after all, most still go to ultra-homophobic Jamaica. (Though, in fairness, the new PM there is pro-gay-rights.) Many cruisers, including not a few queer ones, are more concerned with their personal well-being than political principle. And we really don't make up that large a share of the cruise market.

[Wingtips56]

I really don't see the cruise lines changing any itineraries for this. The only thing I would expect would be the Atlantis, RSVP and other gay charters/gay group sailings would no longer pick itineraries that included such ports. Pity, as St. Petersburg is certainly the gem of the Baltic itineraries.

 

I'm glad we got there a year and a half ago, because I will not go to Russia now.

[skeptic49]

I'm glad we got there a year and a half ago, because I will not go to Russia now.

 

That's how I feel. We did the Baltic on Princess before the anti-gay crusade started. We love St. Petersburg but we won't be back unless and until they change their ways. Atlantis still visits homophobic ports in the Carribbean. I'm uneasy about that too but the argument is made that by doing so we can helpo break down barriers. I suppose there is merit to that.

 

Jim

[ONT-CA]

I find it interesting that those who have been to St. Petersburg and other locations in Russian are the staunches supports of preventing anyone else from doing likewise. Been there done that but you shouldn't...

 

Whatever the content of the laws that prevent gay "propaganda" which I believe do not criminalize homosexuality, I have to relate it to the posting below "More than a little disturbing" where 200,000 citizens of Puerto Rico demonstrated to deny gay rights. Should we not include Puerto Rico in our boycott? But then agan, I have been there...

[shepp]

I find it interesting that those who have been to St. Petersburg and other locations in Russian are the staunches supports of preventing anyone else from doing likewise. Been there done that but you shouldn't...

 

Whatever the content of the laws that prevent gay "propaganda" which I believe do not criminalize homosexuality, I have to relate it to the posting below "More than a little disturbing" where 200,000 citizens of Puerto Rico demonstrated to deny gay rights. Should we not include Puerto Rico in our boycott? But then agan, I have been there...

 

I believe that the not-insignificant difference is that the Russian government, up to the highest levels, is virulently homophobic and turning that bigotry into law. That's not the case in Puerto Rico. Surely you understand the distinction?

 

And you also understand the "I went there before this began, but wouldn't do it now" statements you've mischaracterized?

[freebygsy]

as far as Russia goes, don't Hate, Educate. The more gay people go there the more everyday it will seem for people who live there and have a vote.

 

Russian is far more diverse than the impression given by the few but very publicly loud anti-gay protesters out there, I was in Russia last year in St P and Moscow, had a great time, Helped a lot by the fact my partner speaks Russian. not an easy place to visit if you can't speak or even read the language.

 

Also a bit of a chore if you don't go by cruise ship, the Visa's are very red tape heavy still.

 

The UK had such a law in the 80s/90s thanks to the then Conservative government. It didn't last very long, I would say socially Russia is in the same place the UK was back then, I feel they will get past this dark time just as quick. The law is not intended to stop people being gay, bars and clubs are not getting shutdown (apart for financial reasons like anywhere else), it's more of a distraction tactic, how best to divert the attentions of the growing unemployment amongst the masses while the small handfull of people get rich quick off the back of the CCCP break up.

[ONT-CA]

... Surely you understand the distinction? quote]

 

Russia is trying to stifle dissemination of information (propaganda) the Puerto Rico demonstration was based on religious hate

[Rotterdam]

Here in the US there are now Republicans supporting Gay Marriage & the the Mayor of NYC is boycotting the NYC Fifth Avenue Parade due to its anti gay stance!!!!

 

Theres hope for everyone.....

[flag fan]

This is disappointing. I was thinking of a Black Sea cruise next year or the year after but I don't want to support a repressive government and I am not sure I buy the argument that going to countries like this helps change things. On the other hand I did go on a cruise to Jamaica and did get off the boat--justifying my actions as not holding the whole country responsible for the actions and attitudes of some (including the government).

[shepp]

Russia is trying to stifle dissemination of information (propaganda) the Puerto Rico demonstration was based on religious hate

 

Well, Russian homophobia has its roots, as I understand it, in rightwing nationalism and in - yes - religion, only Russian Orthodox, not Roman Catholic.

 

The purpose of boycotting Russia, as well as taking other actions, is to pressure the government back down, not to make irrational Christians see the error of their ways. While there may be an eventual sea change in attitudes, it's clear that the situation there is getting worse, not better, and I can't believe that queers going on shore excursions will improve things.

 

Since Puerto Rico is ultimately governed by the U. S. Constitution, draconian back-in-the-closet legislation being enacted in Russia would never fly. In fact, an anti-discrimination law backed by Puerto Rico's ruling party is making its way through the legislature, as is one against anti-gay violence. Gay parades have been going on in San Juan for 22 years, unmolested by government-approved thugs. In Russia, even small pro-gay demonstrations are attacked, while the police stand by. Despite the massive anti-marriage-equality demonstration in San Juan, equating what's happening in Russia with what's happening in Puerto Rico is nuts.

 

Last I heard, Russian gay activists - the ones who are actually suffering - are asking us not to go to their country. Much as I'd like to see St. Petersburg, I'll assume they know better than I about that.

[ONT-CA]

...equating what's happening in Russia with what's happening in Puerto Rico is nuts. .

 

Couldn't agree more. Two completely different happenings.

[ONT-CA]

As idiotic as it sounds, and is, the Russian laws, enacted and pending is an attempt at implementing a national “Don’t Ask-Don’t Tell” strategy. Most of us are well aware of that concept. Previously, their system just criminalized the gay question. But even though that has now changed their belief is that homosexual propaganda such as demonstrations, parades or otherwise, can recruit heterosexual youth into a gay life. Russian is in the middle of a population crisis at the moment having lost substantial numbers to emigration and wishes to at least maintain if not improve their birth rate. They find nothing wrong with chorusing gay youth into the heterosexual marriage norms no matter how unhappy the results as long as it produced children. So, no propaganda, no recruitment, fewer gays, more children. How idiotic. But this policy will of course laughingly work in that the gay community will not “recruit” any heterosexuals. As to the legitimate gay population, it is up to all of us to show up and show them we are out here.

What then of the religious zealots in Puerto Rico? This so-called moral authority derived from religion, any religion, goes beyond denying us rights; they have punitive objectives in mind in addition to the fire and brimstone promised us by them. Nothing new to most of us. But to be able to achieve a religious sponsored anti-gay demonstration rally against gay marriage, rallying two hundred thousand citizens from of a total population of fewer than four million people is most disconcerting to me. But as long as we are able to we will disembark as a gay married couple regardless of any homophobic achievements made by these zealots.

[freebygsy]

In 1986.the UK brought in a similar law. Clause 28 was finally repealed in 2000 in Scotland and in the rest of Britain in 2003.

No-one was ever prosecuted under this law in the UK, It was just a stupid law that split the then conservative government, the Wicked Witch may be dead but we so remember her legacy.

[Bramcruiser]

I'm too old to care anymore. Simply if I think the laws are stupid and its not my place to visit I simply won't go there. I can't rally around the crowd but if others feel the same then so be it.

 

This year's cruise is the UK, Denmark and Iceland and all places I don't have to be something other than myself. Going with my significant other we can just be ourselves - two guys who just like to travel and take lots of photos and eat. :D

 

As for Russia - you are not getting my money!

[TxnAquarian]

I am booked for a Black Sea cruise next year with an overnight call at Sochi, Russia. My partner and I were looking into getting visas, so that we can go off and explore on our own. But now after reading about the provision in Putin's laws about detaining gay foreigners for up to 14 days, we are nervous about going off and enjoying the town for 2 days. This is a cruise I have wanted to do for a long time, but the more I think about it, the more I think we would be better off switching to a Canary Islands cruise over the same time.

 

 

 

 

 

Michael

[wripro]

Many gay travelers are poised to boycott Russia, especially the 2014 Olympics in Sochi. I hope that's enough to get the message across though I doubt it.

[freebygsy]

Getting your own visa while on a cruise is not simple as you need sponsorship from a hotel , family or friend.

Normally this can be gotten around but more complicated if arriving off a cruise ship as you have no intention of staying on land.

[SakeDad]

This is an open letter from actor/playwright/activist Harvey Fierstein regarding Russia and her new laws.

 

It's time to start paying attention to what's going on in Russia in case you haven't yet. Putin has declared war on the gay community. He's made it illegal to promote homosexuality in theater, film, tv, print that in any way could be seen by youth. In other words anything gay is now pornography.

He's outlawed the adopt...ing of Russian children to any country that has legalized marriage equality.

And now it is reported that his next law will remove the children of GLBT families from their homes. This will apply to biological children as well as formerly adopted ones.

This is a horror. Not only for our community but even for straight families. Already divorced parents are threatening one another with blackmail to tell authorities that their ex is now gay just to control parental rights.

Putin wants this attack against human rights to be his legacy. He believes he can get the backing of the Vatican as well as all other conservative religious leaders to join his cause.

 

What can we do? Make his actions and his plans public. Shine the light of public opinion on this evil doer.

Boycott the Winter Olympics in Russia. Believe me, Putin will use the Olympics as proof that the world backs up his action. There are only two ways to deal with a tyrant: Starve out the rat, or destroy him.

 

So, my friends, do your research and then GET LOUD AGAINST PUTIN AND HIS ANTI-GAY POGROM. This is a very small world. Our brothers and sisters in Russia need us NOW!

 

Makes sense to me! I was blessed to work on HAL a few years ago and see St Petersburg. Yes, it was wonderful to be able to walk around on my own and experience it. But I wasn't in fear of violence or being arrested for being who I am at the time. Today I would NEVER support any gay cruise company that goes there. The straight cruise lines aren't expected to fight our battles....but RSVP/Atlantis/et al ARE expected to.