Any advice given these circumstances?

[needabreakcanada]

I haven't seen that link before very handy.

 

Based on Janxx to feb 2nd total flight cost $940.32; tax and fee $165.32 (both quoted for 2).

 

Keep in mind they were multiple carriers which would not necessarily work for point comparison.

 

But I was glad to see lower flight costs.

 

The mechanics of the point comparison is so confusing to me. ugghhhh

[cruising cockroach]

Most frequent flyers will use the miles for international business or first class travel. I burned up all my Aeroplan miles over a decade ago but it used to be Economy to Europe ran 50-60,000 miles, and business 80,000 and first 100,000 (I think BC must be 90-100k now and first at least 125k). The fare differential between EC and BC/FC is probably in the order of 3-4x if not a lot more and taxes/fees tend to be fixed for the most part so it's much better to redeem for premium classes. I'm not sure how many miles you have but I'd blow them on a business or first class ticket to Europe or Asia rather than use them for economy within North America.

[needabreakcanada]

I have no intentions of ever going to Asia or Europe. So unfortunately I guess I have to pick from the best of the evils.

 

Thanks though,

[kenish]

So just when is it worth it never? We have to use the points sometime.

 

There's no hard and fast rule. Very generally, you should not redeem miles for anything less than 2 cents per mile, and redemptions at 3 cents or more is a good value.

 

I realize not everyone is a math whiz, but don't get intimidated by all the facts and figures. It's really quite simple. Convert the cost of what you want to redeem to cents (just remove the decimal). In your case of the Expedia cruise credits, $1000.00 = 100,000 cents. Then divide by the number of miles (133,000). 100,000 / 133,000 = 0.75 cents/mile, or less than 1 cent!! A very poor deal...and most third parties make sure that it is! Also, you may get the credit, only to pay more thru Expedia after the credit compared to other cruise sellers. I'd only buy the vouchers if you do the math and will get a good bottom-line deal. Don't buy the credits and hope something good pops up!

 

Many award flight redemptions require that you pay the taxes and fees. Since you're out of pocket for that, *only* the base fare should be used.

 

All this said, you mentioned you will "never" go to Europe or Asia. Your Aeroplan might make that possible, and it will be a far better use for them. No worries if you're sure all your travels will be in and around North America....you have to predict your future travels, then decide whether to use the miles now or later. (Hope this is never you, but a couple used their miles to take one last vacation. The husband had terminal cancer and the miles were the only way they could afford to go at all. In their situation the miles were priceless.)

 

Hope this helps!

[Gardyloo]

Let me use some real numbers to illustrate the "value" equation. I know these aren't your dates, but I'm just making a point here.

 

On Feb. 4, 2014, US Airways, an AC partner (for the time being) has award space available in business class from Toronto to San Juan, via Charlotte. (I get this information from a paid service called Expert Flyer.)

 

I don't know how long your cruise will be, but I'm assuming - for the purposes of argument only - that it's 12 days. Now, I can't yet see US Airways' award availability for Feb. 16 or 17, but let's just assume that there will be some.

 

The round trip price in business class - if you paid money to US Airways for those flights - is CA$1800 per person. Of that, CA$78 is taxes and fees, so the actual fare is CA$1722.

 

The price (in Aeroplan miles) for that ticket is 60,000 miles round trip. You'd still have to pay the taxes, so dividing 1,722 by 60,000 gives you a "value" of 2.8c per mile.

 

But wait, there's more... ;)

 

By flying in business class, you get, in addition to a much more comfy seat, free baggage, free food and drink on board, "fast track" through security, and other perks. Just guessing, but I'd imagine you're saving maybe $25 or $50 per person for the luggage, and - what? - $20 per person for food en route? So while you're paying the taxes, you're not paying the other fees. So I'd argue that when it's all said and done, you're back to $1800/3c per mile in value. In terms of comfort, well, once you start flying up front (business or first) it gets habit-forming.

 

That's what mileage junkies do - leverage their miles to get the best return - value for money, and the ability to arrive at a destination (or home) feeling like you're on vacation instead of out on parole.

[FlyerTalker]

Longish post to follow. If you don't like math or economics and prefer Sesame Street or Jersey Shore, hit the page down key now. (Although those who shun economics probably would benefit the most.)

 

(MEA CULPA - in a prior post, I transposed numbers, resulting in an incorrect calculation. Please replace the 24,000 number with 6,000. We now return you to our original posting.)

 

Frequent flyer miles are nothing more than an alternative currency. Just like how the natives on Yap use huge stones for currency, FF miles serve as a storehouse of value. And the value is a function of both acquisition cost and comparable cost upon redemption.

 

Given your current card, your points each year cost you two ways. First, there is the $120 "vig" that you pay for the right to earn miles. So that impacts the value of your miles. The second is the opportunity cost of other value you could receive from spend on other cards instead of the Aeroplan one. Let's say you could have gotten a 1% rebate for a $50 fee (hypothetical). Now let's do a sample number crunch assuming a $30k annual spend.

 

You have received 30k Aeroplan miles for a cash cost of $120. Had you been with the other card, you would have gotten a rebate of $300 minus the fee for a net of $250. So, your acquisition cost of the miles was $120 plus the $250 you could have received with a different card. Now divide the $370 by 30,000 and we get an acquisition cost of $0.0123 per mile.

 

Now on to redemption value. This is a simple one to figure. Take the number of miles needed for an award and divide that into the dollar value of the award. And remember, the actual value of the award is the NET you receive. For an air ticket, that's the all-in price of the ticket MINUS any fees or surcharges or taxes on the award ticket.

 

So, let's assume you use 40k miles to redeem a $500 ticket. However, there are $125 in fees on the redemption. So, the net value of your redemption is $375. Divide that by the number of miles used and you come up with a redemption value of $0.0094. If you compare those two numbers, you find that you have actually LOST on this transaction. You "paid" 1.23 cents per mile and only got back 0.94 cents in value.

 

To break even (given these specific acquisition costs), your 40k mile ticket needs to have a net value of $492 after all taxes/fees are calculated. With $125 in fees, that would be a gross cost of $617.

 

Thus.....when you redeem miles, you want to at least get back what you paid. And for most FF junkies, you want to make a bunch on the transaction. The least I've ever cashed in for was 2.58 cents per mile for a SEA-ANC roundtrip ($645 divided by 25k miles) Usually I score international business for value of at least 3.5 cents up to 12 cents per miles (into the Seychelles - frightfully expensive tickets). Thus the attraction of mileage runs...you earn miles for less cost than what you redeem them for. The airline version of "Buy low, Sell high".

 

Getting back to the economics part. Only you can determine if it's a fair "trade" of miles for ticket value. Everyone has their own "marketplace" price for their miles. Many will undervalue the acquisition cost of their miles and many never stop to figure our if they are getting "their money's worth". Which is what the airlines hope you do. They'd much rather have you cash in miles for a low value ticket - it's a net win for them.

 

As long as you are at break even or better, it's a win for you. Only you can determine if it is enough of a win or if you want to try for a better return. Ah, the joys of capitalism!!

 

As I have been known to say, all life is a continuing series of cost/benefit calculations.

[calliopecruiser]

As I have been known to say, all life is a continuing series of cost/benefit calculations.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, but I also have to point out there are also non-monetary benefits (and costs) in all such "calculations" we make in life, and those vary from person to person. My cost:benefit analysis might be different than yours (or hers, or theirs).

 

Just in case someone take it too literally ;)

[FlyerTalker]

One of my most frequent cost-benefit calculations regularly came about shortly after waking up in the morning. Should I get up and go to class/work/whatever or should I roll over and get some more sleep? Call in sick? Play hookie? Definitely "costs" and "benefits" on both sides of the decision. Plus a little game theory as well.

 

Buehler? Buehler?

[brazilgirl]

 

 

Enviado via iPad

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[needabreakcanada]

Brazilgirl you are too funny.

 

So after reading all your posts I think I have figured it out somehow.

 

First off - I would like to tell you that we don't have an enormous amount of points only 142, xxx.

 

But what I have figured out is that the cruise credit of 133, 000 pts for $1000 certificate is a value of 1.33 cents.

 

Now upon looking at available dates end Jan - early Feb (not our actual dates) I see flight that have a base cost of $996 for two (not including taxes and fee's). Those flights are 80,000 pts.

 

Do I have this part right they are worth .08 cents?

(never get the darn decimals right).

 

But if I can knock $200 of actual flight then the points become worth 10.05 cents (is this finally right am I getting it now?)

 

????

[FlyerTalker]

But what I have figured out is that the cruise credit of 133, 000 pts for $1000 certificate is a value of 1.33 cents.

Nope...it's value PER POINT. So you take the value ($1000) and divide by the number of points it takes to get that. So $1000/133,000 equals $0.0075 per point. You can check this by saying "If I have 133,000 points and each is worth $0.0075 per point, then my total value is what each point is worth times the number of points I have". Which checks the calc.

Now upon looking at available dates end Jan - early Feb (not our actual dates) I see flight that have a base cost of $996 for two (not including taxes and fee's). Those flights are 80,000 pts.

 

Do I have this part right they are worth .08 cents?

(never get the darn decimals right).

One big issue....it needs to be clear if the 80,000 points is for one or two tickets. Often, to keep things straight, it's better to talk in terms of price per person/ticket.

 

Assuming that the 80k is for TWO tickets with a value of $996, then the value PER POINT is $996/80,000 or $0.01245. Which makes this a better redemption than the $1000 credit, though still nothing to write home about.

 

And it is nowhere near eight cents per point. Or 0.08 cents. Or 0.08 dollars.

But if I can knock $200 of actual flight then the points become worth 10.05 cents (is this finally right am I getting it now?)

I have no idea what you mean about knocking off $200. And there is NO way you are going to be getting ten cents per point on any redemption to San Juan.

 

Go back and try the arithmetic again. Remember, it's value PER POINT. Which means you divide value by the number of points needed. And using the same number of points for less value means that the points are now less valuable.

 

Let's try this with a theoretical example. You can get an business class award ticket to Europe for 100k points. If you have choice of redeeming those 100k for a ticket to ABC worth $3000 or a ticket to XYZ worth $4000, which is the better value for the points? Or let's say you can redeem the 100k points for a television worth $3000 or one worth $4000. Which is the better value for the points?

 

Be sure you get the arithmetic down straight. Sometimes it can get twisted, so double check by working the problem backwards and see if it's logical. And be sure to use the same units with dollars to dollars.

[Gardyloo]

Brazilgirl you are too funny.

 

So after reading all your posts I think I have figured it out somehow.

 

First off - I would like to tell you that we don't have an enormous amount of points only 142, xxx.

 

But what I have figured out is that the cruise credit of 133, 000 pts for $1000 certificate is a value of 1.33 cents.

 

Now upon looking at available dates end Jan - early Feb (not our actual dates) I see flight that have a base cost of $996 for two (not including taxes and fee's). Those flights are 80,000 pts.

 

Do I have this part right they are worth .08 cents?

(never get the darn decimals right).

 

But if I can knock $200 of actual flight then the points become worth 10.05 cents (is this finally right am I getting it now?)

 

????

Sadly, you're dividing the wrong way. Divide the money by the points, so $1000 for 133,000 points is .007519 cents per point (3/4 of a penny.) Multiply .00752 times 133,000 and you get 1,000.00.

 

$996 for 80,000 points is 1.245 cents per mile.

[needabreakcanada]

Yep told you it was not my strong suit. But I can write a novel if that helps.

 

Hubby does the math in this house - but didn't want to bother him as he was doing the taxes.

 

Well the points are going to have to be used at some point.

 

The way he looks at it is, if we don't have money for a trip and this gets us one - well then the points are worth alot more to us at that time!

 

But I know what you all mean by best use of points and will try to do the best I can - thanks for the formula's and math lessons!

[kenish]

Yep told you it was not my strong suit. But I can write a novel if that helps.

 

Hubby does the math in this house - but didn't want to bother him as he was doing the taxes.

 

I'd connect you with my friend, but she lives in far-away Vancouver. She used to work for Revenue Canada and now has her tax preparer license, which she mainly uses to help friends. :)

[brazilgirl]

Yep told you it was not my strong suit. But I can write a novel if that helps.

 

Hubby does the math in this house - but didn't want to bother him as he was doing the taxes.

 

Well the points are going to have to be used at some point.

 

The way he looks at it is, if we don't have money for a trip and this gets us one - well then the points are worth alot more to us at that time!

 

But I know what you all mean by best use of points and will try to do the best I can - thanks for the formula's and math lessons!

 

I know how you feel! I love literature , geography , history , languages , biology ...but math ? Yucka!

 

I have the same attitude towards miles. I try to use them as wisely as possible and get the most bang for my buck.

 

However , there are times getting a good deal is not possible and I just bite the bullet and use the miles to go off and relax.

 

Hope it works for you and that you have a wonderful vacation!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[travelplus]

Having a bit of dilemma. We booked this cruise with the intention of using our aeroplan points for the flights. Have been saving them for quite a few years.

 

Long story short - 20 flights came up for our intended day before flight on February 8th. Sure out of toronto fly to Ottawa sit for 12 hours, then fly to Montreal and have to stay overnight. Then following day (now +1 day into February 9th day of cruise) flights don't arrive in San Juan until 3:30pm!

 

All the flights are gone already (not that we could have booked any of those) and now I am waiting for the airline partners to list theirs (US Air and United) sometime this month.

 

This is for our 30th wedding anniversary and we saved and saved our points to do it. Hubby is not thrilled as the card to collect points costs us $120 a year.

 

Apparently Air Canada and Aeroplan are no longer part of same company and Aeroplan is having to chase them to honor contracts.

 

What to do any suggestions? Did I miss something?

 

Thanks,

 

Could you try using your miles on United(Air Canada Partner). For my return flight from Rome-San Francisco I'm on Lufthansa under a Untied Ticket. So you may see Air Canada 33222 operated by United 3223.

 

Try a flight from Ottawa-Newark-San Juan Ottawa -Washington DC Air Canada Washington DC-San Juan United.

 

Hope this helps.

[needabreakcanada]

Whether I get the best deal for the points or not at least i understand their usage alot more.

 

So thank you for that.

 

Thanks for the laugh brazilgirl and the support.

 

Still no flights yet - but it is early - so checking everyday.

 

To complicate my life more - we also have airmiles - enough for 1 flight. So may send hubby on aeroplan pts and me on airmiles (I can get westjet direct!) Too bad we don't have enough airmiles for both of us!

 

Also checked out hotel using aeroplan pts - yikes - one night at sheridan for 15,500 pts! May use some airmiles for that as well. geeeez

[kenish]

Whether I get the best deal for the points or not at least i understand their usage alot more.

 

So thank you for that.

 

Also checked out hotel using aeroplan pts - yikes - one night at sheridan for 15,500 pts! May use some airmiles for that as well. geeeez

 

You can get good hotel deals using (and earning) points through their own program. Also, you can earn points in your airline program from stays at hotels that participate as partners...usually the miles earned are meager (like 500 per stay not per night) but it does reset the clock on the airline miles expiring. So it's a great value if the 500 miles credited "rescues" 25,000 miles about to expire.

 

Sounds like you realize this... 15,500 points times 2 cents per point for a minimum "acceptable" redemption value means they need to save at least $310 in hotel costs to be a good use of Aeroplan points.

[needabreakcanada]

I see on aeroplan that some flights outbound are coming up for my dates.

 

Unfortunately so far they are still +day. We may have to fly down 2 days early at this rate.

 

I think it will be a few more weeks before the return dates come up - or who know when.

 

Wish me luck!

[needabreakcanada]

After alot of back and forth and doing my homework we booked our flights this morning.

 

We had aeroplan points for flights and we were just short on airmiles for two flights.

 

Aeroplan had our date going down - but not coming back (it was 3 days after our return date).

 

Airmiles had our date going down and one day later coming back, or so I thought. After alot of homework and some advice from airmiles - we applied for the air miles world mastercard with annual fee of $99 which would reduce the points needed for a flight by 25%. We had 5769 points and needed originally 7600 pts(they call them miles). So with the 25% reduced mile rate the flights were now 5700 miles. When we applied for the card our bank manager gave us a 100 mile bonus card. Yes that brought our point total to 5869!

 

The funny part is the card was in the airmiles system this morning and I don't even have the physical card yet - so I was able to get the discount and pay with our aeroplan visa!

 

Another surprise this morning was they had flights for our exact dates Feb 8 -16th. We do have two stops down but only one on the way back.

 

Happy camper here for sure. What a relief!

 

Thanks all,

[mic74]

After alot of back and forth and doing my homework we booked our flights this morning.

 

We had aeroplan points for flights and we were just short on airmiles for two flights.

 

Aeroplan had our date going down - but not coming back (it was 3 days after our return date).

 

Airmiles had our date going down and one day later coming back, or so I thought. After alot of homework and some advice from airmiles - we applied for the air miles world mastercard with annual fee of $99 which would reduce the points needed for a flight by 25%. We had 5769 points and needed originally 7600 pts(they call them miles). So with the 25% reduced mile rate the flights were now 5700 miles. When we applied for the card our bank manager gave us a 100 mile bonus card. Yes that brought our point total to 5869!

 

The funny part is the card was in the airmiles system this morning and I don't even have the physical card yet - so I was able to get the discount and pay with our aeroplan visa!

 

Another surprise this morning was they had flights for our exact dates Feb 8 -16th. We do have two stops down but only one on the way back.

 

Happy camper here for sure. What a relief!

 

Thanks all,

 

I just starting reading this thread today, congrats on getting flights via airmiles! I live in Canada as well and feel your pain with Aeroplan. My hubby is from Nfld and good luck with trying to use our Aeroplan points to fly there from Calgary in the summer :(! I actually just cancelled our Aeroplan Visa and have now went with Scotia Bank Gold American Express. With this card you earn reward dollars that can be redeemed as a credit on your American Express card when you purchase any type of travel (car rental, airline tickets, etc). I think it will benefit our family much more than our Aeroplan points were IMHO. Just wanted to share that option with you :). We are as well trying to decide if we should just cash in our Aeroplan points for an Expedia Cruise certificate..

[needabreakcanada]

It was a long hard battle but I finally won!

 

I hear you on the aeroplan - my friend has the scotia card and swears by it. She can book a flight anytime with her points. Something to consider for sure.

 

Now we are down to 104 airmiles but have 145,000 or so aeroplan points. I will definatley use 23,000 to get pre cruise hotel in San Juan with Best Western certificate. Can you believe that is still a better deal than the expedia cruise credit?

 

I feel your hesitation on the cruise credits. But if you have cancelled your card - what the heck!

 

After all the reading of formulas etc. I decided in the end it is what benefits you the most. Alot of people will never travel to Asia or Europe so that point can become moot.

 

If we wanted to fly from Toronto to Florida or Myrtle Beach we would probably not have any issues with aeroplan - but San Juan - well they still don't have our return dates available and I have been checking daily since February 16th. Grrrrrr.

 

It was alot of work to figure out how to make it work and thank goodness the young guy at airmiles mentioned the card. Wish I got his name. Then our bank manager rushed it through and the card was approved and recognized on airmiles within two days. Not sure if that is the norm but sure worked for us!

 

Good Luck and thanks

[mic74]

I think we have a bit over 150,000 aeroplan miles. Will have to periodically fill up at Esso to keep our account active now that we have cancelled our Aeroplan Visa. I looked a few times for flights from YYC to FLL for our cruise next Feb, but didn't see anything that would work. Maybe we'll keep the poinyd and use them for flights sometime when we can plan our trip around Aeroplan and not the other way around??? The Scotia gold Amex we now have I understand only came out last fall.. You earn 4 times the points at grocery, gas stations, and restaurants. We love it so far!!! We got $200 in rewards for signing up and now have a total of $435 in rewards since mid-Jan when we signed up. A couple of big purchases on the card which has helped earn points quickly... namely 4 flights to Nfld that we had to pay for cause there was no availability thru Aeroplan ha ha! Enjoy your cruise!

[needabreakcanada]

You have a good trip also - no matter how you get there:p

[FlyerTalker]

I think we have a bit over 150,000 aeroplan miles. Will have to periodically fill up at Esso to keep our account active now that we have cancelled our Aeroplan Visa.

ALERT!!

 

I am not 100% certain (not being involved with Aeroplan), but at one time recently, Aeroplan had a absolute 7 year expiration on points. Seven years after earning, the points died. Took a flight on May 1, 2006, those points die on May 1, 2013. This was in addition to any "recent activity" that was needed to keep things "alive".

 

I would be sure to check the Aeroplan terms and conditions - I wouldn't want you to think that a fill-up would be enough and then find out that they all went "poof" without you using them.