New poll regarding the “Affluent” and cruising

[Wordzz]

Border Reiver, I agree with your previous comments 100% and couldn't have put it any better - well done.

 

David

 

Me too. Well put.

[Cruachan]

Is this the same suit you wear to remove the Pol Acker from your cabin when embarking?

 

Oh dear no - if it only it were that simple. Pol Acker disposal requires the full EOD equipment

 

J

 

[Cruachan]

Are you looking for a new job? You would be well suited for a position with Silverseas.

 

Louise

 

Silverseas? I don't think so! :eek:

 

How do you suppose that would play with Saint Peter now that he's gone to all this trouble to get me a Q1 on Queen Victoria out of Soton on 13 Sep this year?

 

J

[pepperrn]

oh dear no - if it only it were that simple. Pol acker disposal requires the full eod equipment j

:) :) :)

[Louise D]

Silverseas? I don't think so! :eek:

 

How do you suppose that would play with Saint Peter now that he's gone to all this trouble to get me a Q1 on Queen Victoria out of Soton on 13 Sep this year?

 

J

 

So your upgrade was confirmed then, without my first knowing about it. Heads will roll.:eek::eek:

[Cats2010]

An interesting article regarding a cruising trend among the US “affluent” population. Could this be a reason for the “watering down” of the dress code? Also are more changes to come to attract a new Cunard demographic?

http://www.seatrade-insider.com/news/news-headlines/study-finds-affluent-less-likely-to-cruise-during-next-12-months.html

 

Many studies tell many things. This one reflects the replies of only 467 male and female potential passengers. It could be that at this particular time they may have represented a certain tendency, however, I doubt whether they can be considered to be decisive in the long run.

 

:(

[Cruachan]

So your upgrade was confirmed then, without my first knowing about it. Heads will roll.:eek::eek:

 

Well, ok - it hasn't actually been confirmed as such. But my faith in Saint Peter is beyond boundless and I just know that he will be waiting there at the check-in desk on 13 September to personally hand over my keycard for the Q1. How could it possibly be otherwise?

 

J

[Jimsgirl]

If that took place in a U.S. port, the fault would have been that of the overzealous Department of Homeland Security, and not Cunard. I have memories of exactly the same thing happening on QE2 in Los Angeles on a regular basis.

 

No, Homeland Security had nothing to do with telling in transit passengers to assemble in a designated room on board at 8a.m, then not allowing them to leave the ship until almost 10a.m.

Going through Immigration took less than 5 mins, then it was Cunard who insisted we sit in the terminal until gone 12.30p.m.

 

This is only difficult to understand if you insist that Cunard is 100% perfect, and if something does go wrong it has to be the fault of some one else.

 

I read on a thread from someone who boarded in New York to go through the canal to LA, On the way they had a port day at Ft Lauderdale, and they insisted that there was "no delay" there fore I was wrong.

 

On that cruise Ft Lauderdale was merely a port to be visited there would have been no "in transit" passengers.

 

On my cruise, Ft Lauderdale was the FIRST US port after the ship had visited "foreign ports", some passengers were getting off there and some getting on.

 

A totally different scenario.

[seasidegal]

Don't do it Salacia - imagine if the sheets blew over onto an adjoining balcony.

 

A true story: I know that some here might think Silverseas is more upmarket than Cunard, but the most icky thing that ever happened to me on board a ship was on the Silver Whisper when I went out on my balcony and found a pair of some man's underpants had miraculously appeared on my lounge chair. I decided I had better telephone to reception to report the wayward underpants and so I did so. The conversation went something like this:-

 

Me: There are a pair of underpants on my balcony and I don't know how they got there. Please send someone to take them away.

 

Reception: What are underpant?

 

Me: Men's undergarments.

 

Reception: What are undergarment?

 

Me: Clothing. Just get someone in to take them away.

 

Reception: You want your clothing removed?

 

Me: Just the underpants.

 

Reception: We send someone to remove clothing.

 

15 minutes later a steward appears with a stick.

 

Steward says: "You need your clothing removed".

 

I said "just remove these men's underpants lying on the balcony".

 

Steward says: "why you have men's underpants on your balcony?"

 

I said "they must have flown there from another balcony."

 

Steward looks at me with strange look. He goes out to balcony and closely observes the underpants, and prods them with the stick.

 

He says "You sure they are not yours?"

 

I say "No they are not mine - they are men's underpants. Just remove them."

 

He says, (with further strange look) "I suppose I take them away" - then carefully places the stick under the underpants and drapes them over the stick.

 

He then leaves the cabin with the underpants balancing from the stick.

 

(I have said before that Silverseas is a weird cruise line).

 

Louise: One of the funniest stories I've read on CC. I was laughing:D so hard my husband wanted to know the reason for my outburst and I tried reading it to him but had to start over twice as I couldn't stop laughing. Thanks for posting!

 

Posted by mercury51

After reading the posts you are all nutty as a fruitcake. I was booked to cross the pond on a cargo ship out of Valencia, it went out of service so I needed an alternative and booked Curnard not giving any thought other then that it was a way to get back to the U.S without waiting until the fall. It is a mode of transportation I am happy if you want to fantasize dream play dress up or whatever but cut out your own paper dolls and leave the rest of us alone. I plan to spend the nine days in the casino bar and cabin I won't be playing dress up I have no dress up clothes with me so Bon Voyage I am sure the "liner" will survive my stench

 

"you are all nutty as a fruitcake"

 

How kind of you to notice and thank you for the great compliment. Humour is a marvelous thing. Did you know that having a good sense of humour actually improves your life and your health:

 

"Humor is infectious. The sound of roaring laughter is far more contagious than any cough, sniffle, or sneeze. When laughter is shared, it binds people together and increases happiness and intimacy. Laughter also triggers healthy physical changes in the body. Humor and laughter strengthen your immune system, boost your energy, diminish pain, and protect you from the damaging effects of stress. Best of all, this priceless medicine is fun, free, and easy."

 

Which means that those on the Cunard Forum ( i.e. fruitcakes) will probably live longer and thus have the opportunity to make many more sailings on the QM2 to parade about in our 'finery'. Chalk one up for the 'dress-code' keepers.:)

 

BTW, Welcome back. I thought you had given up on trying to rehabilitate us. You will be pleased to know that I'm still playing 'dress-up in front of my mirror'. So much fun...I would recommend it to you!

 

Also I would recommend picking up some "cut out your own paper dolls" in the gift shop on board. I do hope they sell them on the QM2 as they did on QE2 as they will help you pass the time while you 'stay in your cabin' to avoid us well-dressed fruitcakes.

 

No need to put 'liner' in ' ' as it is actually an ocean liner as you will discover

when crossing the Atlantic. Believe me, having crossed on a cruiseship and the QM2, "It's not the only way to cross, but it's the only way to cross"-(pepperrn.) ;)

 

Best regards to you, Mercury51, and I hope you find your 'funny bone' as it is very therapeutic to better health and, of course, happiness,

 

seasidegal

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.helpguide.org/life/humor_laughter_health.htm

[lucky white heather]

No, Homeland Security had nothing to do with telling in transit passengers to assemble in a designated room on board at 8a.m, then not allowing them to leave the ship until almost 10a.m.

Going through Immigration took less than 5 mins, then it was Cunard who insisted we sit in the terminal until gone 12.30p.m.

 

This is only difficult to understand if you insist that Cunard is 100% perfect, and if something does go wrong it has to be the fault of some one else.

 

I read on a thread from someone who boarded in New York to go through the canal to LA, On the way they had a port day at Ft Lauderdale, and they insisted that there was "no delay" there fore I was wrong.

 

On that cruise Ft Lauderdale was merely a port to be visited there would have been no "in transit" passengers.

 

On my cruise, Ft Lauderdale was the FIRST US port after the ship had visited "foreign ports", some passengers were getting off there and some getting on.

 

A totally different scenario.

 

As a former in-transit passenger ( doing B2B2B several times ).....in Fort Lauderdale but with Celebrity cruises...we endured similar poor arrangements there for" in- transits".....which I mentioned on another recent thread to support an experience described by Jimsgirl although her experience was with Cunard .

As "Alien" fare paying passengers in our personal case ( can't recall if the other B2B pax were US nationalities or whatever ?) we had to report early, wait for a long time to be escorted off, put in a room where we hung around without refreshments, wait for almost 2 hours before being re-boarded etc and we felt it was all a bit of a waste of our tiime .We had complied with all requirements we thought, so what was the delay?

We felt there needed to be a policy that offered a better experience for passengers who had given and presumably satisfied all the necessary information the US required, and should have been offered a much swifter process.

[3rdGenCunarder]

As a former in-transit passenger ( doing B2B2B several times ).....in Fort Lauderdale but with Celebrity cruises...we endured similar poor arrangements there for" in- transits".....which I mentioned on another recent thread to support an experience described by Jimsgirl although her experience was with Cunard .

As "Alien" fare paying passengers in our personal case ( can't recall if the other B2B pax were US nationalities or whatever ?) we had to report early, wait for a long time to be escorted off, put in a room where we hung around without refreshments, wait for almost 2 hours before being re-boarded etc and we felt it was all a bit of a waste of our tiime .We had complied with all requirements we thought, so what was the delay?

We felt there needed to be a policy that offered a better experience for passengers who had given and presumably satisfied all the necessary information the US required, and should have been offered a much swifter process.

 

Being "in transit" seems to come with difficulties regardless of the line. We had an in transit day on HAL, but we used the time to go ashore and sightsee, so we had no problems. I believe we had to indicate in advance if we'd be staying on the ship or spending the day off the ship. We left the ship early, had our day out, and had no issues when we returned. Someone had a list, we were on it, and we boarded. Later, we talked to passengers who'd opted to "stay on the ship." They had been walked off the ship, processed, parked in a room, and seemingly forgotten for a while.

[lucky white heather]

Being "in transit" seems to come with difficulties regardless of the line. We had an in transit day on HAL, but we used the time to go ashore and sightsee, so we had no problems. I believe we had to indicate in advance if we'd be staying on the ship or spending the day off the ship. We left the ship early, had our day out, and had no issues when we returned. Someone had a list, we were on it, and we boarded. Later, we talked to passengers who'd opted to "stay on the ship." They had been walked off the ship, processed, parked in a room, and seemingly forgotten for a while.

 

If you are the owner of a US Passport perhaps there are different initial arrangements?

 

As. far as I can recall we could have left the ship to visit ashore after the processing had been done, but we were at the mercy of the the intransit arrangements before being returned to the ship.

 

We could not avoid the process and had to comply in every respect possibly because we were on non US passports.

[fantasy51]

Well, ok - it hasn't actually been confirmed as such. But my faith in Saint Peter is beyond boundless and I just know that he will be waiting there at the check-in desk on 13 September to personally hand over my keycard for the Q1. How could it possibly be otherwise?

 

J

 

He will only be waiting if you wear the t-shirt we designed for you on another thread - but then the Fashion Police will be waiting too.

[glojo]

Well, ok - it hasn't actually been confirmed as such. But my faith in Saint Peter is beyond boundless and I just know that he will be waiting there at the check-in desk on 13 September to personally hand over my keycard for the Q1. How could it possibly be otherwise?

 

J

:)I have just checked my calendar and the 13th September falls on a Friday!!:eek::eek:

 

No doubt you aren't superstitious and this may well indeed be your lucky day :)

[Dancer Bob]

I don't think citizenship makes any difference, everybody has to get off in a US port. I've been (Costa) walked off as a group, then walked back on as a group, about as painless as they could make it. Cunard in Los Angeles, there was indeed over a long delay to get back on, nobody ever bothered to say why.

The rule seems to be a Customs form is required to leave the terminal, so that's what they mght be asking.

[Chelsea1]

No, Homeland Security had nothing to do with telling in transit passengers to assemble in a designated room on board at 8a.m, then not allowing them to leave the ship until almost 10a.m.

Going through Immigration took less than 5 mins, then it was Cunard who insisted we sit in the terminal until gone 12.30p.m.

 

This is only difficult to understand if you insist that Cunard is 100% perfect, and if something does go wrong it has to be the fault of some one else.

 

I read on a thread from someone who boarded in New York to go through the canal to LA, On the way they had a port day at Ft Lauderdale, and they insisted that there was "no delay" there fore I was wrong.

 

On that cruise Ft Lauderdale was merely a port to be visited there would have been no "in transit" passengers.

 

On my cruise, Ft Lauderdale was the FIRST US port after the ship had visited "foreign ports", some passengers were getting off there and some getting on.

 

A totally different scenario.

 

I agree it depends on the circumstance. We had a chaotic boarding for the Diamond Princess at Singapore during the terminal upgrade, which the Captain apologised for in his first announcement - we were parked on buses right by the ship due to congestion for over an hour before being allowed to board, and that was after spending 3 hours in the terminal. But the attitude of Cunard's security staff at Sydney annoyed me more - it was obvious they were far more concerned with travel agents and VIPs than their loyal paying passengers who had traveled a long way. That said, the crew were absolutely fantastic and it was an amazing holiday.

[bazzaw]

The vast majority of people in the world couldn't possibly afford to take a Cunard cruise. Those that do are "affluent" in my book. And based on my recent experience it is still a great way to travel in comfort with minimal stress.

 

There are many people in Mumbai, India for whom I am wealthy/affluent beyond their wildest dreams!! There are also many other people in Mumbai, India who are wealthy/affluent beyond MY widest dreams! I don't think that either group will be seen on a Cunard ship. (except perhaps, for the first - as workers)

 

Barry

[bazzaw]

I am so glad Cunard still have steerage (britannia) and I am proud to take my place and enjoy myself, in my M&S tux , sipping gently at the house wine.

 

Pish - you won't need an M&S tux down in steerage -- but a bodhran and/or a tin whistle would come in handy for the parties.

 

Barry

[bazzaw]

Well.

 

Where is the slot for the educated, professional, comfortable-but-less-than-affluent class who have no desire to talk about affluence and cruise ships?

 

What is wrong with you people?

 

Every time I want to come back to Cunard I come to this board and I realize it's not an option. DH is English and we would love a crossing but honestly- you do realize the way you sound, correct?

 

Hi Seago2

 

Don't let this place put you off!! I was horrified by what I found here a few years ago (pomposity, pretentiousness, snobbery -- have I missed anything??) prior to our first Cunard cruise. It hasn't changed much over the years - but I am pleased to tell you that, after 4 cruises now with Cunard, I have never found the attitudes displayed here actually onboard the ships. As members of the educated, professional, comfortable-but-less-than-affluent class who have no desire to talk about affluence and cruise ships, you will thoroughly enjoy a cruise on any of the Cunard ships. :) I know that we (wife and I) have.

 

Barry

[bazzaw]

By some people, yes. I've met people who wouldn't sail with Cunard because they're offended by the "class system." Considering how few areas are off-limits to the Rowers, I find this attitude baffling. Even more so now that the people who wouldn't sail on Cunard do sail on the ships that have added special enclaves like the Haven. That's a restricted area, but it is not perceived by the people who stay there as "undemocratic."

 

Where I live, Cunard is certainly perceived to have a "class system" -- however Royal Caribbean is not perceived that way. BUT, RCCL has theatre seats and poolside seats reserved for Gold Pass holders only - Cunard has nothing like this. Unfortunately, perceptions are everything. Don't tell me the facts -- I've already made up my mind!! :)

 

Barry

[bazzaw]

After reading the posts you are all nutty as a fruitcake. I was booked to cross the pond on a cargo ship out of Valencia, it went out of service so I needed an alternative and booked Curnard not giving any thought other then that it was a way to get back to the U.S without waiting until the fall. It is a mode of transportation I am happy if you want to fantasize dream play dress up or whatever but cut out your own paper dolls and leave the rest of us alone. I plan to spend the nine days in the casino bar and cabin I won't be playing dress up I have no dress up clothes with me so Bon Voyage I am sure the "liner" will survive my stench

 

Gee-- I wish you had been on any of our Cunard cruises. Not that there was anything wrong with our dinner companions, but I think you would have been more interesting :)

 

Barry

[mercury51]

Ever go to stony bridge hotel I usually stop there for a few days they used to have a eating place deeries or something well I will stand u a meal of course you'll have to come penguin style or I won't recognize you

[old nutter]

Very entertaining discussion. And it is so much easier to write words with one's tongue in one's cheek!

 

From my perspective, there is often little or no correlation between wealth and class. One of the reasons that the affluent are often affluent is that they are good at making the most of a bargain, so high pricing is not necessarily the way to attract the affluent - often quite the opposite in fact!

 

What is thought of as "class" by the British is frequently much more to do with internal confidence and being comfortable in one's skin. Those who do not have to prove anything to anyone do not have to dress up in finery and jewels because they can live without having to demonstrate their standing at every turn. Equally, they instinctively know when to behave and dress properly and when to appear elegantly casual. Post Industrial Revolution, there was a term used to describe an element of society that had made lots of money within their lifetimes (often not always either morally or legally!) but did not know how to behave properly because they were essentially under-confident. These people were known by the pejorative term "Nouveu Riche" and frequently felt it necessary to behave in a conspicuously ostentatious manner in order to appear Upper Class when in truth they were far from it and moving further away with every obvious unjustified demonstration of their new wealth. Thus, it would be easy to assume that increasing prices and separating these individuals into small areas at the top of a ship would be a very good idea for the well being of the rest of humanity.

 

Fortunately for everyone, that is not necessarily the case and it is easy to fall foul of brash ostentation from keel to mast these days.

 

Personally I like my comfort and am prepared to spend a little more cash on a cruise so that I can enjoy it. Even more fortunately, I have just about enough hard-earned cash to do it when I cruise. I just go a little less frequently than some others. I do not like sitting or standing queuing in a big port lounge waiting in turn with hundreds others if there is a way to avoid it. I also like a bit of space and some peace and quiet in my cabin/stateroom and if I can eat well in a peaceful room with friendly companions, so much the better. To satisfy those and a few other aims, I tend to book with cruise lines that will provide me with those little luxuries. It doesn't necessarily mean that I will always cruise with Cunard, but when I do I like to book in one of the Grills. Equally, when I cruise with NCL I like travelling in a penthouse suite, better still in of the the Haven suites for the same reasons. Interestingly, the approach taken by Cunard is to have two Princess categories and six or seven in the Queens Grill whereas NCL have just suite and non-suite with a smaller range of choice than Cunard. The effect of this appears to make the lower grade suites more expensive on NCL. I only make this comparison to point out that price and perceived "Class" are not particularly connected and that lines other than Cunard have cost/value segregation without being accused of being elitist. It just seems to be an issue for Cunard and some Cunard passengers. And from what I have seen, cost comparisons do not show that the cost of Cunard cruises are particularly higher than others in the mass market.

 

Positioning your cruise line in a crowded market is a marketing decision. Cunard has positioned itself as being very British and in order to appeal to the American market, it leans on history (particularly maritime history) more than most. Whether true or not, Americans are assumed to like the Britishness that comes with history and that is why the Cunard ships are built as they are with lots of apparent opulence, lots of mahogany panelling, an excess of Victoriana around them and Enrichment Programmes rather than Entertainment!

 

All of the above should mean that if the original thread article is true, it should be good news for the cruise businesses (and the rest of us) because there will be less of the Nouveu Riche looking for a bargain and less good for us, prices can be increased. (tongue removed from cheek now so I can eat good, wholesome, humble home cooking).

 

By the way, it is great fun trying to guess the social strata of fellow passengers on cruises just by employing a bit of intelligent people watching:D. And having done it, I feel safe to say that the top and bottom ends have a great deal more similarity in how they behave badly than the massive middle majority.

[Thaxted]

Very entertaining discussion. And it is so much easier to write words with one's tongue in one's cheek!

 

From my perspective, there is often little or no correlation between wealth and class. One of the reasons that the affluent are often affluent is that they are good at making the most of a bargain, so high pricing is not necessarily the way to attract the affluent - often quite the opposite in fact!

 

What is thought of as "class" by the British is frequently much more to do with internal confidence and being comfortable in one's skin. Those who do not have to prove anything to anyone do not have to dress up in finery and jewels because they can live without having to demonstrate their standing at every turn. Equally, they instinctively know when to behave and dress properly and when to appear elegantly casual. Post Industrial Revolution, there was a term used to describe an element of society that had made lots of money within their lifetimes (often not always either morally or legally!) but did not know how to behave properly because they were essentially under-confident. These people were known by the pejorative term "Nouveu Riche" and frequently felt it necessary to behave in a conspicuously ostentatious manner in order to appear Upper Class when in truth they were far from it and moving further away with every obvious unjustified demonstration of their new wealth. Thus, it would be easy to assume that increasing prices and separating these individuals into small areas at the top of a ship would be a very good idea for the well being of the rest of humanity.

 

Fortunately for everyone, that is not necessarily the case and it is easy to fall foul of brash ostentation from keel to mast these days.

 

Personally I like my comfort and am prepared to spend a little more cash on a cruise so that I can enjoy it. Even more fortunately, I have just about enough hard-earned cash to do it when I cruise. I just go a little less frequently than some others. I do not like sitting or standing queuing in a big port lounge waiting in turn with hundreds others if there is a way to avoid it. I also like a bit of space and some peace and quiet in my cabin/stateroom and if I can eat well in a peaceful room with friendly companions, so much the better. To satisfy those and a few other aims, I tend to book with cruise lines that will provide me with those little luxuries. It doesn't necessarily mean that I will always cruise with Cunard, but when I do I like to book in one of the Grills. Equally, when I cruise with NCL I like travelling in a penthouse suite, better still in of the the Haven suites for the same reasons. Interestingly, the approach taken by Cunard is to have two Princess categories and six or seven in the Queens Grill whereas NCL have just suite and non-suite with a smaller range of choice than Cunard. The effect of this appears to make the lower grade suites more expensive on NCL. I only make this comparison to point out that price and perceived "Class" are not particularly connected and that lines other than Cunard have cost/value segregation without being accused of being elitist. It just seems to be an issue for Cunard and some Cunard passengers. And from what I have seen, cost comparisons do not show that the cost of Cunard cruises are particularly higher than others in the mass market.

 

Positioning your cruise line in a crowded market is a marketing decision. Cunard has positioned itself as being very British and in order to appeal to the American market, it leans on history (particularly maritime history) more than most. Whether true or not, Americans are assumed to like the Britishness that comes with history and that is why the Cunard ships are built as they are with lots of apparent opulence, lots of mahogany panelling, an excess of Victoriana around them and Enrichment Programmes rather than Entertainment!

 

All of the above should mean that if the original thread article is true, it should be good news for the cruise businesses (and the rest of us) because there will be less of the Nouveu Riche looking for a bargain and less good for us, prices can be increased. (tongue removed from cheek now so I can eat good, wholesome, humble home cooking).

 

By the way, it is great fun trying to guess the social strata of fellow passengers on cruises just by employing a bit of intelligent people watching:D. And having done it, I feel safe to say that the top and bottom ends have a great deal more similarity in how they behave badly than the massive middle majority.

 

Your observations about the subtleties of class are very much on the mark, old nutter. Although society on this side of the pond has never been as stratified as it is in Britain—Hyacinth Bucket is uniquely English—we too have long understood the distinction between "old money" and "new." As for the efforts of the nouveau riche in days gone by to impress the ever effortless upper classes, I'm reminded of what the eccentric Countess of Warwick (one of Edward VII's mistresses) once said: "The middle classes may have manners, but they have no manner."

[Salacia]

Your observations about the subtleties of class are very much on the mark, old nutter. Although society on this side of the pond has never been as stratified as it is in Britain—Hyacinth Bucket is uniquely English—we too have long understood the distinction between "old money" and "new." As for the efforts of the nouveau riche in days gone by to impress the ever effortless upper classes, I'm reminded of what the eccentric Countess of Warwick (one of Edward VII's mistresses) once said: "The middle classes may have manners, but they have no manner."

 

...nor Manor!:D