Why Ban e-Cigarettes?

[Paul65]

I am not a lawyer and I definitely don't know much about EU laws, but that would fit my definition of being compelled (required). In other words, they are saying that if you are going to use an ecig on their ship, you must do so only in a designated smoking area, where there will be smoke or face penalties/punishment.

 

 

Since you are not required to use e-cigs at all, then you are not being required to go to a smoking area. That's very different from examples of an employee being required to work in a smoking area. But I'm not a lawyer or an expert in EU laws, either. But it doesn't fit my definition of being compelled. Smokers are not compelled to be in the smoking area, either. They choose to go there, if they want to smoke (which is not a mandatory activity).

[Camlott]

Since you are not required to use e-cigs at all, then you are not being required to go to a smoking area. That's very different from examples of an employee being required to work in a smoking area. But I'm not a lawyer or an expert in EU laws, either. But it doesn't fit my definition of being compelled. Smokers are not compelled to be in the smoking area, either. They choose to go there, if they want to smoke (which is not a mandatory activity).

 

Good point. I'm not about to start a debate over a law that I have no knowledge of.

 

However, if the law was correctly characterized above. I would still argue that the "non-smoker" as an ecig user is defined is being compelled to be in a smoking area in order to use their non-smoking device as the policy states.

 

Again, either the EU law isn't applicable to RCI or there are some other types of loopholes. I'm fairly confident that RCI did their homework on this one!!!

[Paul65]

OK. I'm pretty sure that the fact that no one is required to use an e-cigarette is enough of a "loophole" to say they're not required to be in a smoking area. Seems entirely logical to me, but one person's logic doesn't always agree with another's.

[nomad098]

Since you are not required to use e-cigs at all, then you are not being required to go to a smoking area. That's very different from examples of an employee being required to work in a smoking area. But I'm not a lawyer or an expert in EU laws, either. But it doesn't fit my definition of being compelled. Smokers are not compelled to be in the smoking area, either. They choose to go there, if they want to smoke (which is not a mandatory activity).

 

RCI can not legally create a policy in the EU that says that a non smoker must only perform certain acts in a space designated as smoking area other than smoking

 

Extreme examples

 

children do not need to play yet if the only place that RCI policy makers said they could play was the designated smoking area this would be illegal assuming the kids are not smoking

 

Non smokers who drink coffee can only do so in the designated smoking area illegal

 

People who use an alternative form nicotine e.g patches, sprays, gum and e-cigs can only do so in the in the designated smoking area illegal

 

The designated smoking area is just what it says and RCI are in contravention of EU law by writing a policy that states anything other than smoking should be done there by non smokers

 

Of course non of this applies to cruises which do not come under EU law

[Paul65]

RCI can not legally create a policy in the EU that says that a non smoker must only perform certain acts in a space designated as smoking area other than smoking

 

Extreme examples

 

children do not need to play yet if the only place that RCI policy makers said they could play was the designated smoking area this would be illegal assuming the kids are not smoking

 

Non smokers who drink coffee can only do so in the designated smoking area illegal

 

People who use an alternative form nicotine e.g patches, sprays, gum and e-cigs can only do so in the in the designated smoking area illegal

 

The designated smoking area is just what it says and RCI are in contravention of EU law by writing a policy that states anything other than smoking should be done there by non smokers

 

Of course non of this applies to cruises which do not come under EU law

 

What if they said e-cigs were not allowed on the ship? Would that them put them back in compliance with EU law (assuming it applied at all).

[Camlott]

Companies in the EU have tried to introduce policies in the past to ban the use of e-cigs on their property and have succeeded after all it's their building where they came unstuck was when the policy stated that they could only use e-cigs in the designated smoking areas with the smokers.

 

OK. I'm pretty sure that the fact that no one is required to use an e-cigarette is enough of a "loophole" to say they're not required to be in a smoking area. Seems entirely logical to me, but one person's logic doesn't always agree with another's.

 

I would be willing to bet that was the stance of the employer's as well... By the way, it may surprise you that I actually disagree with that law or anything similar in the US. I think RCI should have the right to allow/disallow smoking or any other activity on their ships as they see fit.

 

As both a property and business owner, I don't agree that the government should tell me what I can/can't allow in my business or property so long as it is a legal activity.

[nomad098]

Again, either the EU law isn't applicable to RCI or there are some other types of loopholes. I'm fairly confident that RCI did their homework on this one!!!

 

Not really they got caught out by UK trading standards and the Advertising standard agency not so long ago

 

There are so many laws not just covering the EU but individual laws for all it's member states I do not think even RCI could hire enough lawyers to check on eveything:D

 

It's a bone of contention over hear that EU have more control over our laws than the Government does

 

Your talking about a country that could not deport a known terrorist because the EU said it would impinge on his human rights :confused:

[cruisegal3]

I'm leaving on Friday for a Princess cruise to Alaska. No problems with my ecigs there, I'm very happy to say. I'm hoping one or more of you very knowledgeable people can help me with a different concern.

 

I'm too scared to vape on the plane, (6 hour flight!) so I bought nicorette gum. Doesn't do it for me, nope. So I called my doctor, asked for a prescription for Nicotrol Inhalers (remember them?) I'll be picking them up tomorrow.

 

Do you think I'll run into any problems "smoking" them? No vaper, after all. But they do look like a tiny cigarette. After your discussion of legalities (VERY interesting) it made me wonder. They are a prescription, so, a medicine.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks!!

 

Linda

[nomad098]

What if they said e-cigs were not allowed on the ship? Would that them put them back in compliance with EU law (assuming it applied at all).

 

The crazy thing is yes they would then be complying with EU law

 

It's RCI's ship they can decide what is allowed and not allowed

 

as with the office policy I stated earlier they can have a policy that bans e-cigs from using them in the building but they cannot have a policy that states an e-cig user must only use it in the smokers designated area

 

The e-cig user in the EU is classed as a non smoker and as such has all the rights and protections afforded to a non smoker not to be exposed to second hand smoke

 

RCI have had to change policy before to take into account the local laws and regulations the one that comes to mind is the amendment of the age restriction for drinking in Europe from 21 to 18 so RCI introduced a waiver for parents/guardians to sign to allow drinking at 18 this was challenged as it did not comply with UK and EU law and RCI had to remove the waiver

 

Policies change and hopefully this one will

[nomad098]

I'm leaving on Friday for a Princess cruise to Alaska. No problems with my ecigs there, I'm very happy to say. I'm hoping one or more of you very knowledgeable people can help me with a different concern.

 

I'm too scared to vape on the plane, (6 hour flight!) so I bought nicorette gum. Doesn't do it for me, nope. So I called my doctor, asked for a prescription for Nicotrol Inhalers (remember them?) I'll be picking them up tomorrow.

 

Do you think I'll run into any problems "smoking" them? No vaper, after all. But they do look like a tiny cigarette. After your discussion of legalities (VERY interesting) it made me wonder. They are a prescription, so, a medicine.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks!!

 

Linda

 

A certain low cost airline with a bad reputation sells something very similar on their flights a dry cigarette for use on their planes

 

I would phone and tell them your Doctor has given you an inhalator to use on the plane and just ask if it is OK to take on board

[nomad098]

I though that any time a cruise ship was in a port they would fall under the law of the area they are in? Maybe after you get out to the 3 mile limit they dont have to follow a countries rules, but inside they do. Am I missing something as i normally do?

 

Thanks

 

Ships that sail from an EU port and call at all EU ports fall under the EU tax laws regardless of how far out to sea they are not the case if they call at a non EU port. When a cruise is considered to be an EU cruise staying within EU ports it is subject to International law, Maritime law, EU law and the law of the EU member state who's waters it is in

 

I am surprised with all these laws they have time to get anything done at head office :D:D

[tiessa]

A certain low cost airline with a bad reputation sells something very similar on their flights a dry cigarette for use on their planes

 

I would phone and tell them your Doctor has given you an inhalator to use on the plane and just ask if it is OK to take on board

 

 

I've never had the nerve to use an e-cigarette on a plane either. I do know a guy who says he stops the attendant at the beginning of the flight and speaks loud enough to her for everyone to hear him and lets her know he is using a nicotine inhaler. Then he uses his e-cigarette as he wishes. He swears he's never had a complaint.

[cruisegal3]

I've never had the nerve to use an e-cigarette on a plane either. I do know a guy who says he stops the attendant at the beginning of the flight and speaks loud enough to her for everyone to hear him and lets her know he is using a nicotine inhaler. Then he uses his e-cigarette as he wishes. He swears he's never had a complaint.

 

Ecigs and the nicotrol inhaler are 2 very different things. The inhaler is a prescription. You just "suck" the nicotine through the little plastic white fake cigarette; no vapor at all.

 

I use ecigs, but want to use the nicotrol inhaler on the plane.

[orville99]

Ecigs and the nicotrol inhaler are 2 very different things. The inhaler is a prescription. You just "suck" the nicotine through the little plastic white fake cigarette; no vapor at all.

 

I use ecigs, but want to use the nicotrol inhaler on the plane.

 

Once you understand how your e-cig works it's easy to use it without producing any vapor at all.

[tiessa]

Ecigs and the nicotrol inhaler are 2 very different things. The inhaler is a prescription. You just "suck" the nicotine through the little plastic white fake cigarette; no vapor at all.

 

I use ecigs, but want to use the nicotrol inhaler on the plane.

 

 

I know there is a difference but he uses the ecigarette and tells the attendant it is his nicotine inhaler.

[orville99]

I know there is a difference but he uses the ecigarette and tells the attendant it is his nicotine inhaler.

 

Which is exactly what it is. At least he's not telling her anything that's false.

[xpcdoojk]

Government entities won't endorse PV's until they can figure out how to tax them:)

 

Perfect

 

You have hit the truth

 

jc

[cropping cruiser]

I know this will not be a popular post and feel free to bash away but I will not respond. If it doesn't smell and there is no smoke, I don't care what you do on your balcony, I just want to be able to enjoy MY balcony. I am not a smoker (thankfully) I grew up in a house with two heavy smoking parents, cigarettes, cigars and pipe. Both parents ended up with cancer caused by smoking, throat cancer that ended with a trach and mouth cancer that ended with total removal of lower mouth, jaw and partial removal of tongue. I suffer from severe allergies, asthma and recurrent asthmatic bronchitis which I blame at least partially on second hand smoke exposure. I embrace no smoking policies for many reasons. I understand that nicotine addiction is a very real problem and actually one of the hardest to fight. However, in public areas I feel that e-cigs need to be treated the same as "real" cigarettes. Less hassle for the crew and the other guests. Why is there this overwhelming need to circumvent the rules ? If the e-cig is so safe, has no nicotine and not addictive why do you need to use it ? I can understand using it as a stop smoking tool but really years after you stopped smoking you are still puffing away on it ? Just saying.

[jstraw20]

If the e-cig is so safe, has no nicotine and not addictive why do you need to use it ? .

 

Since this poster has declared that they won't reply, let me ask the e-cig users out there: Have any of you suggested that e-cigs have no nicotine or are non addictive? I know that I certainly haven't.

[cruisegal3]

Since this poster has declared that they won't reply, let me ask the e-cig users out there: Have any of you suggested that e-cigs have no nicotine or are non addictive? I know that I certainly haven't.

 

The nicotine in ecigs is the reason for using them! They did not get me addicted-- smoking for decades did that. I freely admit to being a nicotine addict.

[jstraw20]

The nicotine in ecigs is the reason for using them! They did not get me addicted-- smoking for decades did that. I freely admit to being a nicotine addict.

 

Exactly. E-cig users tend to have more success in quiting because they mimick more of the behaviors associated with smoking in addition to being a nicotine delivery vehicle. What's missing is the tar and other byproducts of combustion.

 

While I realize that some are so anti smoking that they'll have a knee jerk reaction to anything remotely related to smoking, making stuff up doesn't exactly help thier case.

[Paul65]

While I realize that some are so anti smoking that they'll have a knee jerk reaction to anything remotely related to smoking, making stuff up doesn't exactly help thier case.

 

It's not really making stuff up, but more like assuming that the claims made by a few (who don't know what they are talking about) are extended to the broader group. You see this on both sides of the debate, but in this case, you have had people claim that these devices don't contain nicotine (which is true only in the sense that there are some cartridges that are nicotine-free) or even that they don't contain anything but water (which is not true in any sense that I know of).

 

Many people make the mistake of hearing/reading something like that and thinking it's the mindset of all defenders of e-cigarettes.

[orville99]

It's not really making stuff up, but more like assuming that the claims made by a few (who don't know what they are talking about) are extended to the broader group. You see this on both sides of the debate, but in this case, you have had people claim that these devices don't contain nicotine (which is true only in the sense that there are some cartridges that are nicotine-free) or even that they don't contain anything but water (which is not true in any sense that I know of).

 

Many people make the mistake of hearing/reading something like that and thinking it's the mindset of all defenders of e-cigarettes.

 

 

True - on both sides - whenever irrational fear intersects with the unknown - the outcome is predictable. Whenever lack of information intersects with misinformation or disinformation, confusion ensues. When confusion and fear collide, s### happens.

 

Realities (from a former two-pack a day smoker whose been on PV's for three years):

 

The amount of nicotine in a PV is user-determined. Concentrations range from 36mg/dl all the way to 0mg/dl. When DW and I switched, we started with the 36mg juice. We're down to 11mg juice now, and will continue to reduce the potency at our own pace. Even when we get to 0mg, we'll probably still use our PVs, because the activity itself is habitual.

 

What you see in the exhalant is not water vapor - a PV doesn't produce sufficient heat to vaporize water. What you see is a glycerin fog, because water molecules are attracted to glycerin, and a PV is sufficiently hot to atomize that mixture. This is also the reason why anything else that's attracted to glycerin will also be present in the fog, and where more study and information is needed.

 

Most domestic juices use vegetable glycerin (VG), most Chinese juices use PG, VG produces a more dense fog, and it lingers longer because VG is thicker than PG.

 

What you smell - if you smell anything - is a flavoring additive (usually food grade essential oils, alcohols, or flavorings). Unfortunately, those additives have a low flash point, and the aroma and fog from that exhalant will linger - not unlike walking into a kitchen where someone's been using vanilla extract to make cookies.

 

No, PVs are not completely safe - just a heck of a lot less damaging than cigarettes.

 

No juice is just glycerin, water and nicotine (unless you make your own). If it were there would be no odor, since all three are odorless when in a vaporized state. Anything you smell is either an impurity or a flavoring additive. All of which need to be much better understood and studied.

 

Finally, the reason my DW and I are using PVs is because they were recommended to us by our family physician as a safer alternative, not as a way to quit.

[GEORGET]

True - on both sides - whenever irrational fear intersects with the unknown - the outcome is predictable. Whenever lack of information intersects with misinformation or disinformation, confusion ensues. When confusion and fear collide, s### happens.

 

.

 

What you smell - if you smell anything - is a flavoring additive (usually food grade essential oils, alcohols, or flavorings). Unfortunately, those additives have a low flash point, and the aroma and fog from that exhalant will linger - not unlike walking into a kitchen where someone's been using vanilla extract to make cookies.

 

No, PVs are not completely safe - just a heck of a lot less damaging than cigarettes.

 

No juice is just glycerin, water and nicotine (unless you make your own). If it were there would be no odor, since all three are odorless when in a vaporized state. Anything you smell is either an impurity or a flavoring additive. All of which need to be much better understood and studied.

 

 

BAT have just launched an e cigarette in the UK and state the following :-

 

What ingredients are in ECOpure e-liquid?

In our classic flavour ECOpure, there are just three ingredients: nicotine, glycerol and purified water.

 

COST $9 FOR APPROX 130 puffs,called VYPE not cheap

 

But the big boys are moving in as so many smokers a changing to these.

Say they are safer as produced in UK.

Bet they are soon taxed

g

[orville99]

True - on both sides - whenever irrational fear intersects with the unknown - the outcome is predictable. Whenever lack of information intersects with misinformation or disinformation, confusion ensues. When confusion and fear collide, s### happens.

 

.

 

What you smell - if you smell anything - is a flavoring additive (usually food grade essential oils, alcohols, or flavorings). Unfortunately, those additives have a low flash point, and the aroma and fog from that exhalant will linger - not unlike walking into a kitchen where someone's been using vanilla extract to make cookies.

 

No, PVs are not completely safe - just a heck of a lot less damaging than cigarettes.

 

No juice is just glycerin, water and nicotine (unless you make your own). If it were there would be no odor, since all three are odorless when in a vaporized state. Anything you smell is either an impurity or a flavoring additive. All of which need to be much better understood and studied.

 

 

BAT have just launched an e cigarette in the UK and state the following :-

 

What ingredients are in ECOpure e-liquid?

In our classic flavour ECOpure, there are just three ingredients: nicotine, glycerol and purified water.

 

COST $9 FOR APPROX 130 puffs,called VYPE not cheap

 

But the big boys are moving in as so many smokers a changing to these.

Say they are safer as produced in UK.

Bet they are soon taxed

g

 

They conveniently neglect to mention the flavorings when they state things like bold mild and menthol however. And they're about 80 times the cost of buying the same juice in bulk and filling your own cartridges. But you have to factor in that it is a cigarette manufacturer trying to recoup lost revenue;)