JPEG or RAW

[hockeyguru32]

I have been doing some reasearch on these techniques. I wonder how many people use JPEG and how many use RAW? From what I've seen you more experienced photographers use RAW because you may want to edit them later in your editing software program. My understanding JPEG saves space on your card but you are limited in the editing process?

 

If I choose to do RAW when I shoot on my upcoming trip how many memory cards should I carry (shooting in fine mode) and how many GB card is good? I now have 2 8GB and 2 4GB should I be upgrading to 16GB?

 

Is it wise to bring my Laptop to D/L the photos and edit them later? I have a blackberry playbook as well I could bring but not sure how or if I can D/L the photos to them to save luggage space and not carry a laptop.

 

Sorry for all the questions.

[pierces]

You had to do it....

 

 

*sigh*

 

 

Here are a few threads on the subject. Most pros and cons are covered pretty well.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1860281&highlight=pros+only+shoot+raw

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1899214&highlight=pros+only+shoot+raw

 

 

It is ultimately up to you. RAW has it's place and can be useful, but it is not the Holy Grail that some make it out to be.

 

Dave

[hockeyguru32]

You had to do it....

 

 

*sigh*

 

 

Here are a few threads on the subject. Most pros and cons are covered pretty well.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1860281&highlight=pros+only+shoot+raw

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1899214&highlight=pros+only+shoot+raw

 

 

It is ultimately up to you. RAW has it's place and can be useful, but it is not the Holy Grail that some make it out to be.

 

Dave

 

LOL sorry Dave TGIF to you too If i ever see you on a cruise I'll buy you a drink

[pierces]

LOL sorry Dave TGIF to you too If i ever see you on a cruise I'll buy you a drink

 

No worries! It's just that there is very little left of that horse, what with all the flogging! :D

 

TGIF to you too!

 

Enjoy that new camera!

 

Dave

[zackiedawg]

That was my very first thought too, Dave - 'here we go again'! No fault to the OP - but this is probably one of the most contentious things you can ask in online forums - and the debates from either side are as bad as Democrat vs Republican.

 

The basics that cut through all the noise from either side are that you just choose which one works best for you - BOTH can give great results, both can be used by pros and amateurs alike, and both can be edited and manipulated...it's mostly down to how much you like the post-processing work on computer. If you enjoy it, RAW gives you more overall latitude to play around, alter, or recover, but JPG can still be edited as well. If anything, JPG is the more difficult format for less skilled photographers, because there's less overall ability to fix mistakes made when shooting...ie, it requires you to work harder and apply more skill towards getting it right when you shoot it.

[hockeyguru32]

My apologies for beating a dead horse I should have searched it. Could you tell me about the memory cards and downloading preferences?

Edited November 22, 2013 by hockeyguru32

[zackiedawg]

Nowadays, memory cards are cheap enough where that's not too much of an issue for most folks - you can get big enough memory cards to handle plenty of RAW. The only issue you might need to be aware of is the speed of the memory card and your camera's speed in clearing the buffer with RAW if you intend to shoot a lot of fast burst shots. Download times will obviously be much longer with RAW then JPG...though even with JPG I typically plug in my card or camera and start loading to computer, while going off to do something else for a little while - rather than sitting there watching thousands of photos transfer.

 

Personally, If I were going to be shooting RAW, I'd be more tempted to upgrade in memory cards to 16GB at least - maybe 2 or 3 cards. I like the ability to store my photos across a few memory cards rather than just one big one - so I typically go with 8GB or 16GB cards and run through 2 or 3 of them on a trip, rather than a big 32GB card or something. Also, I always download my photos to my laptop/tablet during a trip for backup protection...but I don't delete them from the memory cards. My idea is to keep all my photos on memory cards, bring enough memory cards to handle what I need to shoot for that trip, and also back everything up nightly to tablet/laptop so I have duplicate copies of all photos in case of a card failure. I don't bother to do any editing while I travel, mostly because I'd rather be relaxing or seeing sights and not sitting on my computer! When I get home, I download all photos from my memory cards onto my desktop and backup drives - the copies on my tablet/laptop are typically deleted as they aren't needed...they were just there as redundant backups for emergencies or problems.

[pierces]

Memory: The fastest you can afford. SanDisk Extreme cards are faster than most cameras can make use of at 45Mb/Sec. That said, I have mostly SanDisk ExtremePro with Extremes as secondary cards not because my cameras can use the extra speed (95MB/Sec) but because the download speed to the computer with a USB 3.0 reader is phenomenal. I mostly shoot with a Sony A77 and a NEX-7 so both produce fairly large files. My main (fast) cards are 16GB and the secondaries are either 16GB or 8GB.

 

Downloading: I don't have any profound reason for why I always use a card reader to download. Whether it is the one built into the laptop or the one on my desk, I just prefer the convenience and the fact that I don't have to fiddle with another cable to connect the camera.

 

Dave

[TruckerDave]

The OP could have asked the other question...."Nikon or Canon" ;)

 

But, kidding aside, OP it is up to you. You can shoot each and see how big each file is and go from there as to how big of a card(s) you need. I use a D7000 and it has dual cards and I use 2 16gb cards and I download every night to my laptop. (I use a 13" MacBook Pro so it doesn't take up much space. Also have a portable external hard drive for backup)

 

 

Sent using a small piece of fruit.

[AlkiRagdoll]

I shoot with a Nikon and a Sony NEX-7. In both, I shoot RAW and JPEG. JPEG just in case I want to use the photo right away, and RAW so that I can play with the photo in Lightroom. I would encourage you to get the fastest card and biggest card you can afford. I usually get the Extreme Pros. On a 3 week vacation, I have been known to fill four 32GB cards.

[glojo]

Not wanting to get into the NEF or RAW debate :) but I will be taking our laptop with us and downloading my files from the card onto the laptop as no doubt there will be any number of non keepers on your, or my card.

[Colorado Ken]

Bigger memory cards don't always seem to be the best option. When I got my D800 it came with a 64 GB card. I can't get it to read on my computer that I do my pictures on. I have to connect it to my laptop and load the pictures on a flash drive to move the pictures. I have no issues with the 32 GB or smaller cards. I also take a Epson card reader that stores pictures on a hard drive. This gives me one more level of backup when I travel. I have never had a failure on a memory card, but have helped friends with theirs because they never format the cards when they move pictures. 8 or 16 GB will work for most of what I do, it all depends on the dead horse JPEG or RAW. The D800 consumes about 100 MB per picture when I record RAW and JPEG. If I am doing exposure brackets for HDR it really eats up the card capacity. As many posters have stated, buy a card that is fast as you can afford. You won't be disappointed. :)

[chipmaster]

Memory: Yes its so cheap so it shouldn't limit you raw versus jpeg. But if you shot 36Meg and like crazy do the math what a few hundred per day or a few thousand over a vacation might do to your HDD/memory needs.

 

JPEG/RAW: Hmm comes down to how good a photographer you are. Get exposure and WB right very little reason to shoot raw unless you plan to print poster sized pictures. RAW is to the digital photographer what the darkroom was to the film fanatics.

 

Laptop/tablet: if you shoot raw, highly recommend a laptop with 1TB :D Tablets are fine for viewing but I'd say plan to have a system to backup your pictures; memory cards+ laptop or HDD is a good idea.

 

Shoot 5000 raw pictures and boy do I have a new computer with the most awesome computational power to sell you too ;)

[glojo]

 

 

 

 

Memory: Yes its so cheap so it shouldn't limit you raw versus jpeg. But if you shot 36Meg and like crazy do the math what a few hundred per day or a few thousand over a vacation might do to your HDD/memory needs.

 

JPEG/RAW: Hmm comes down to how good a photographer you are. Get exposure and WB right very little reason to shoot raw unless you plan to print poster sized pictures. RAW is to the digital photographer what the darkroom was to the film fanatics.

 

Laptop/tablet: if you shoot raw, highly recommend a laptop with 1TB Tablets are fine for viewing but I'd say plan to have a system to backup your pictures; memory cards+ laptop or HDD is a good idea.

 

Shoot 5000 raw pictures and boy do I have a new computer with the most awesome computational power to sell you too

I think I see where you are coming from?? Most modern laptops will have ample hardrive space and of course RAM for our digital needs. I do accept that some folks might take 5000 images on a holiday but are we suggesting your average person on holiday would not just take that number of pictures... They would actually keep them?

 

Again I accept there might be someone out there that does take that number of images and also keep them but......... Would someone on holiday take that number??

 

I am clearly out of touch with the real world as I feel it is perhaps 'slightly' excessive! That would relate to my having 42,126 images that I would not just take, but keep for the holiday I am about to go on.

 

Just imagine me saying....'would you like to look at the pictures I took on our recent holiday!!! :eek::) One minute per image equates to 702 hours of uninterrupted, scintillating viewing!!

 

We all have different views\opinions and respect to everyone and I for one will not say who is right, who is wrong.

 

On my sea days I will be looking at the images I download, I will then sort them and make that decision regarding what ones are worth keeping. The laptop gives me far more flexibility to check these images, zooming in to clarify anything that might catch my eye.

 

If we cannot take a laptop, or the latest technology that is available onto our cruise ship, then are multiple SD cards a great option?

 

I personally would go for the fastest card I could afford after making sure it was compatible with my camera. I also agree we might not want to go too big in storage size. Should we then be worried about both storage and security?

 

I would NEVER take my laptop ashore but where would we carry our spare SD cards and how many would we take? 5000 RAW files... On some cameras is that at least 180 Gb??? That is 6 x 32gb SD cards for that one single holiday. In the UK are we looking at approximately £150 for that one holiday compared to an external 2 tb hardrive for £60 (or cheaper) plus a couple of very fast comparatively small SD cards.

 

Apologies for all these daft facts and figures that may well be totally inaccurate. , I guess I am just loathe to use SD cards as a storage source (I am obsessed with a safe back-up capability for my images)

 

SD cards for cruise holidays is definitely a worth while option. My laptop suggestion is really more for those that do not have to worry about weight restrictions and want to check out their efforts whilst on the ship?

 

Is it also horses for courses and for those that like taking the unexpected action shots, they are possibly not going to either worry, or have the time to touch any white balance setting, let alone alter it!!! 'Ooh look at that whale breaching!!!' 'Quick there is an albatross passing the ship'

 

Two different settings where the shot has to be taken instantly otherwise we loose the chance' Look at the camera settings and very quickly make that decision as the whale will disappear under the waves and within one or at most two seconds, that albatross will be gone.

 

I am NOT disagreeing with those that set white balance, speed, aperture before every shot. That is their style of photography and I am certain, their results speak for themselves.

 

 

I am in the corner that enjoys shooting what they shoot (although portrait type photography would bore the pants off me!!!) :eek::o

 

[peety3]

How much control do you want in the image-making process? If you start with RAW, you'll still end up with JPEG later, but you can tell the editing software how much quality to keep in your final JPEG. If you go straight to JPEG, you'll be trusting the camera's quality setting from the start.

 

How good are you at setting white balance? If not good, RAW provides significantly more latitude to fix it afterwards, along with more ability to adjust it in one shot then copy that setting to a batch of shots.

 

How good are you at nailing the exposure, and how often do you shoot images that push the dynamic range of the camera? If your exposures often need adjustment, RAW provides more latitude to fix them, and captures more dynamic range without rounding off in the compression algorithm.

 

My wife and I shoot a lot. On our last Alaska cruise, we shot about 165GB. With two new cameras shooting bigger files than before, I'm hoping to take at least 250GB of storage in various forms on our next cruise. My biggest thought is don't buy one huge card and rely on it - if it corrupts, you're toast. If you lose it, you're toast. If it fills up, you're toast.

[hockeyguru32]

That was my thought on cards is usually I shoot about 500-700 pics on a 7 day cruise and with a new dslr not sure how many images I would get on a card and I have decided to shoot in jpeg. I wnated to save the pics on another source for back up but didnt want to lug a laptop around and have to worry about it. I was hoping to bring my Blackberry Playbook and download onto there for safe keeping not sure if I can do that or not. I have a beginners camera course I am going to this Saturday and I will bring my camera and playbook to see if it is doable

[zackiedawg]

I do accept that some folks might take 5000 images on a holiday but are we suggesting your average person on holiday would not just take that number of pictures... They would actually keep them? Again I accept there might be someone out there that does take that number of images and also keep them but......... Would someone on holiday take that number??

 

Well try looking at it a slightly different way...it's actually quite possible for someone to take that number of images, but highly unlikely that number would represent their slideshow of keepers to friends. In modern digital photography, there are many reasons people might take multiple images of the same subject; for example: wildlife and bird shooters often have to take a burst of shots - maybe 3-8 shots of the same bird in flight, because only one of those may have the perfect wing position, shadow, head position, eyes not blinking, etc. / People who like HDR photography need to take 2-10 shots of a subject with the intention of stacking those frames together into a single photo that captures a very wide dynamic range / Taking photos of family or friends, it's often safer to take 2 or 3, so if anyone was blinking or making a stupid face you have 2 more chances to get a good one / And the most simple reason - because it's digital it doesn't cost you anything to snap another shot or two just to increase your chance of a keeper - a little camera shake in one shot, a person walking into the frame, a bad cloud shadow that moved right across a subject, etc. can all be eliminated by taking a few shots.

 

So by that measure, many folks can come back from a trip - and let's use your number of 5,000 shots - right off the bat, they can probably go through their photos and reduce that number to 2,000 or less, just getting rid of the duplicates and picking the best of each bunch. Then, you might go through the remaining 2,000 and decide that even though there's nothing technically wrong with some of them, they just aren't interesting enough to be worth showing to friends or family...so you filter through and pick the shots you feel are worth sharing - you might easily eliminate another 50% of the shots right there. Now you're down to 1,000 or under. As you go through those, you might find that you consider them 'keepers' for yourself, but when trying to plan out what photos are worth uploading to an online gallery and sharing with the world, you might pick less than half of your keepers to upload - bringing your total down to 500 or less. And so on.

 

I personally wouldn't shoot that many photos in a 7 day trip...but I do shoot far more than I end up sharing. My trip last week saw me come home with about 1,200 total photos in 7 days from two cameras. My first purge of photos saw me down to 400 or so, after eliminating duplicates from a lot of birding photos, and merging HDR and panorama frames into one. Of that 400 I deemed worth holding onto, only 200 made my slideshow with family and friends. Of THAT remaining total, I only uploaded 160 onto my cruise gallery, as being those worth sharing with the wider world to tell the story of the trip in my eyes. I'd venture to say most photographers who vet through their photos, and decide what to share with others, end up with 10-20% or less of their total photos in their public gallery.

 

Apologies for all these daft facts and figures that may well be totally inaccurate. , I guess I am just loathe to use SD cards as a storage source (I am obsessed with a safe back-up capability for my images)

 

I also wouldn't think to rely on SD cards alone for storage...but multiple cards PLUS a good harddrive backup or two is a great solution. The multiple cards for me are just insurance against one individual card failing, even while out shooting...it reduces the number of photos you might lose in that event. And though the laptop is generally safe back in the cabin/room, you never know if thievery might hit you that trip, or something stupid like a plumbing error that floods your room, or smoke triggering the fire suppressants and flooding your poor laptop...or a wavy night at sea causing it to fall off the desk and break. In that event, I find it nice to have the extra security of knowing all my photos are still spanned across all the SD cards, which are small enough to store in the room safe, or bring with you in a camera bag. I go so far as to bring a small portable harddrive too - so my photos are in 3 locations - the SD cards, the laptop, and the harddrive. You can never be too backed up, in my opinion!

[glojo]

Hi zackie,

I think you are basically confirming what I said, the number of pictures we take usually bares no relationship to the number we eventually keep.

 

Backing up our images.

 

I am very concious regarding this issue and hind sight is an absolutely useless talent.

 

At home my hard drives duplicate nominated folders and every day all my images are copied across to an external storage system away from the computer. I am lucky to be able to be driven to the ship and be collected when we return. No weight restrictions so I will take a laptop and download all new images daily.

 

For those with a restriction on what they can carry onto the ship is there an easy option for backing up our jpeg or RAW files? I just don't like the thought of keeping files on SD cards but I suppose they are very small and don't take up much space :)

[zackiedawg]

My home system is similar - my desktop has twin mirrored drives, plus those back up to an external harddrive daily. And on top of that, I copy all images, music, video, and documents onto separate external harddrives manually about once a month. So I've got two mirrored HDs, one external HD with my entire system stored, plus a 4th external detachable HD with all personal files.

 

Like you, I can drive (or be driven) to the ports for most of my cruises, so rarely have to worry about packing or weight restrictions. That said, I have cruised where I needed to fly to another port, and in those cases, I still took a computer with me. My recommendation would be to consider netbooks/tablet hybrids. They're half the size and weight of typical laptops, even compact laptops, yet can handle at least the basic functions on a trip, like storing photos, copying out to an external harddrive, accessing e-mail, and basic internet surfing. I used a tiny netbook for years, and it worked perfectly for backup. I've since upgraded to a Windows8 hybrid tablet/laptop - it's actually thinner than my netbook was, the same dimensions (about 1/2 that of most laptops), and can fit inside my camera bag or carryon luggage easily. It can store and backup photos, has USB ports so I can copy off to external passport drives, and has a detachable screen that can pull away from the keyboard and base to become a touch tablet computer. It's also great because the battery life is over 20 hours, meaning I can go an entire 10 day cruise without needing to recharge. My heavier laptop can stay home, and the superlight and thin tablet hybrid does all the travel duties now.

[peety3]

Well try looking at it a slightly different way...it's actually quite possible for someone to take that number of images, but highly unlikely that number would represent their slideshow of keepers to friends.

So by that measure, many folks can come back from a trip - and let's use your number of 5,000 shots

Early on, I figured out that my "keeper rate" was usually 10-25%. On our first Alaska cruise, it was closer to 3.5%, but there was a lot to see and we prefer to capture "everything" then trim out what doesn't make sense. Our second cruise was <3% that made the slideshow.

 

That said, I've long been a proponent of keeping everything. Disks are cheap, even though we burn through about 1TB/year. You never know what you might remember. There was a great story of a photographer who had a classic shot of Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. He'd been shooting for TIME, and all of his memory cards were shipped directly to the magazine who had rights for a year (I think). After that, the cards were returned to him and went into his archives. When the scandal broke, it took an intern 3 days to find the image, but sure enough he had a winner (ML was underneath a light, centered in the shot, and she was visible over BC's shoulder, with a big grin). It was "just another shot" at first, but later became an icon.

[Cyclebum]

Bigger memory cards don't always seem to be the best option. When I got my D800 it came with a 64 GB card. I can't get it to read on my computer that I do my pictures on. I have to connect it to my laptop and load the pictures on a flash drive to move the pictures. I have no issues with the 32 GB or smaller cards. I also take a Epson card reader that stores pictures on a hard drive. This gives me one more level of backup when I travel. I have never had a failure on a memory card, but have helped friends with theirs because they never format the cards when they move pictures. 8 or 16 GB will work for most of what I do, it all depends on the dead horse JPEG or RAW. The D800 consumes about 100 MB per picture when I record RAW and JPEG. If I am doing exposure brackets for HDR it really eats up the card capacity. As many posters have stated, buy a card that is fast as you can afford. You won't be disappointed. :)

 

Most 64GB cards and larger are ExFAT format. That will not work in all cameras and computers. e.g. My SonyA77 is tested by the factory to handle SDXC cards of that size and my iMac can read it. Older PCs on XP would need update KB955704 to support the card. Not sure about new Windows software.

 

I gave up hauling a download drive or PC as camera gear is plenty to keep track of. I just take twice the number of memory cards I expect to use. Shoot Jpeg plus Raw if your not sure what will do with the shot later. I mostly shoot Sony's Extra Fine on the A77 and Fine plus RAW on the A350. Just my 2cents.