Disney vs. Royal Caribbean

[pcl_cruiser]

I am not a new cruiser! Far from it! I just would rather ask some of the questions I have away from here. As far as the guidelines, if one chooses to use email then they should be able to. It is also, a faster more convenient way to communicate, at times, that's all.

[big al]

From the Guidelines:

Please try to answer message board posts on the boards instead of E-mail when appropriate. There is a lot of great information that we're all missing because it is passing through private E-mail. There are of course times when private E-mail is more appropriate but if you have information that would be helpful to many people, please try to come back to the boards and post it rather than replying to a posting through E-mail.

 

I do not give out my private e-mail easily..BUT sometimes, as you say, it is more appropriate when a poster needs info that is private...

[Icecoldcranberry]

We just did RCL Allure of the Seas with our two boys and loved it! They are 4 and 2 and had plenty to keep them busy. Plus we loved the variety of free food venues. We didn't eat in the formal dining room once! We are debating about sailing on the Disney Fantasy but I am worried that we were too spoiled by the Allure! Does the Fantasy have pizza, fries, fruit, snacks available 24/7? Is there more than just the camp, Disney movies and the water area for the kids? My kids LOVED the Aquanauts area on the Allure but they also liked the merry go round, the aqua theatre shows, Central Park, the cupcake decorating, the mini golf etc etc etc. Is the added Disney price worth it?

[moki'smommy]

We just did RCL Allure of the Seas with our two boys and loved it! They are 4 and 2 and had plenty to keep them busy. Plus we loved the variety of free food venues. We didn't eat in the formal dining room once! We are debating about sailing on the Disney Fantasy but I am worried that we were too spoiled by the Allure! Does the Fantasy have pizza, fries, fruit, snacks available 24/7? Is there more than just the camp, Disney movies and the water area for the kids? My kids LOVED the Aquanauts area on the Allure but they also liked the merry go round, the aqua theatre shows, Central Park, the cupcake decorating, the mini golf etc etc etc. Is the added Disney price worth it?

 

There are "fast food" type outlets on the pool deck that have pizza, fruit, fries, etc. available during the day. When they close in the evening, these goodies are available thru room service (no charge). There area also healthier options available at the fast food locations. The buffet (Cabanas) has generous hours.

 

Camp? The kid programming is likely what you mean. THere is that for various ages, but there are also family activities, pool, splash area, mini golf (deck above the pool deck aft), sports court area, etc. One "not to be missed" is the Mickey 200 where you make a race car out of vegetables and race the other teams (one adult per team required). Any activity listed in the "family" area of the Navigator is open to all. There is no reason for a kid to be bored on DCL.

 

Increased price "worth it" is a personal matter. You won't need to buy a soda card as soft drinks are available 24/7 from the beverage station at no charge as well as in the dining rooms. If you go to a bar and get a can, you'll be charged, but why do this? If it comes from fountain service, it is included. There is no casino on any DCL ship. Very few "upcharge" items. You'll pay for adult dining, specialty coffee, alcohol,(but you can choose to bring your own), smoothies...that's about it for things you consume. Of course you can spend nothing or a small fortune on excursions, spa, photos, shopping, etc.

 

DCL consistently wins awards for kid programming and entertainment. Don't know what that is worth.

[Friend100]

We just did RCL Allure of the Seas with our two boys and loved it! They are 4 and 2 and had plenty to keep them busy. Plus we loved the variety of free food venues. We didn't eat in the formal dining room once! We are debating about sailing on the Disney Fantasy but I am worried that we were too spoiled by the Allure! Does the Fantasy have pizza, fries, fruit, snacks available 24/7? Is there more than just the camp, Disney movies and the water area for the kids? My kids LOVED the Aquanauts area on the Allure but they also liked the merry go round, the aqua theatre shows, Central Park, the cupcake decorating, the mini golf etc etc etc. Is the added Disney price worth it?

 

Sounds like you will be happy for another cruise on the Allure of Oasis. Go for it!

[Icecoldcranberry]

Is juice available all the time? Is here a cost?

[moki'smommy]

Is juice available all the time? Is here a cost?

 

24/7 from room service, no charge. Obviously available in the dining rooms when they are open. And your server will happily pack up a "to go" cup that you can keep in the fridge in your room.

[pinkbarbie]

What are the upcharges for the specialty restaurants on the fantasy? Are they all adult only?

[A2Juju]

I am a Disney loyalist who just retruned from a Royal Caribbean 6 night W Caribbean cruise. I agree with much of what others have said but would add the following:

1. Cabins - Disney wins. Love the bathroom, rooms are pristine, and wave phones are free and very useful. Not being able to communicate on Royal Caribbean was tough.

2. Food - Disney wins and RCCL isn't even a close second. Nothing remarkable at all. I was impressed with food on Disney and appreciated that I could eat well despite food allergies (not true on RCCL).

3. Soft Drinks - Disney free soda was great for kids but my kids are water drinkers so that didn't matter to us. On RCCL you can go to any food location or bar and get water lemonade coffee or tea for free 24/7.

4. Pools - RCCL wins - no contest. Disney pools are stupid, way too small, have limited hours, and are designed for 4 year olds. RCCL had an entire deck of water options - pools, splash park, hot tubs, and many are open 24/7 and none were too crowded (we were on a sold out spring break cruise). Towels were free on both cruises and we never had to check them out so I don't think that's their policy anymore.

5. Entertainment for adults - RCCL wins, no contest.

6. Entertainment for kids - okay so here's where there big differences. Disney wins. .. sort of. For my 13 year old twins, Disney offered more structured activities and the club was open all day and night. They loved it and made tons of friends and we barely saw them the whole cruise. On RCCL, clubs were meeting places more than activity centers. There was little interaction with staff and clubs aren't open with structured activities in the same way as disney. My kids are independent and self sufficient so they enjoyed RCCL just as much as disney and met tons of friends. They also appreciated the RCCL activities such as sport court, flow rider, rock climbing, ice skating and pools that they can be in without toddlers. Note also that the RCCL teen clubs have soda fountains and all kids get soda (don't have to buy the plan).

 

For my 10 year old.... both RCCL and Disney totally miss the mark with the 9-10 year olds. On Disney they are mixed in with little kids and the activities are cookie decorating and crafts.... my 10 year old wants gross motor and sports. The plus is that Disney takes the kids to different parts of the ship - bingo in the lounge, scavenger hunt on different decks, etc. RCCL has a dedicated club for 9-11 year olds but they never leave the one room they have. There are no scavenger hunts or sport court times or anything. So that was a disappointment. Overall.... I was not wowed by either for this age. My son spent used the club to meet friends and they explored the ship on their own for hours at a time, went swimming etc. And one other difference - Disney clubs for the under 12 crowd stay open til midnight. On RCCL they charge you $7/or after 10pm.

 

Lastly... If price matters - ROYAL Caribbean is the clear winner. It was a difference of more than 30% in cost compared to the same cruise on Disney. I don't think Disney delivered $4000 more in value.

[GatorMomInNC]

I have an Allure cruise booked in December, but one of the things that bothers me is I have seen reviews and schedules of activities and while it appears there is a LOT for my husband and I to do at night, we would have to pay a hefty fee for our kids to be in kids clubs after 10pm so that we are "free" to do them.

 

My youngest son doesn't want to leave the kids club the whole time we are on DCL. When he sees me he slouches his shoulders, sighs and says "Do I have to go, can't I stay just a LITTLE bit longer?" :-). He wants to go back to the clubs after lunch, dinner and the shows. He will probably like RCCL just as much, but I will have to schedule my day around when he gets kicked out of the clubs - at lunch, at dinner, at night. Don't get me wrong, I don't let him spend the whole day there and we definitely do family activities, but since he is very content in the clubs I would like to be able to work around MY schedule, not the kids club hours. Of course my husband and I aren't going to want to go to bed at 10pm, so that is an additional $30-$40 for 2 kids, per night when we want to go out.

 

As for soda, we are not soda drinkers (I don't let my kids drink soda at all) but I love the free "soda" and milk and juice on DCL because 1) I drink lots of club soda 2) I do let them drink lemonade as a treat on cruises and my younger son drinks a lot of milk and 3) since DCL lets you bring on your own liquor I can bring on a bottle of vodka or Kahlua and mix it with juice or milk (or could do rum and diet coke, although I haven't tried that yet since I don't really like dc very much). I would probably have to get some sort of drink package on RCCL just so I don't spend a fortune on club soda, and of course I can't bring on liquor so I will be buying all my adult beverages. On DCL I do buy drinks, but I know that I can make my own adult beverage if I just want to hang on the balcony at night, or have a drink while the family is getting ready to go to dinner.

 

Last thing that I will mention that concerns me is all the extra dining charges. I know they have lots of free dining, but they seem to have just as many if not MORE for fee dining. Plus you have to pay extra to get a good steak in the dining room?? Apparently some of their restaurants charge a cover just to get in the door, and then additional for the food. And not fancy restaurants, just regular restaurants like their Mexican restaurant and Johnny Rockets, where you would go with your kids. For a family of 4, spending $5, $10 or $20 per person per meal per day will really add up. I really don't like to worry so much about how much extra all these things are adding up on a cruise. I don't like the little cash register in my head constantly going off - "ching ching" with every meal, every drink. I like to spend my money on "luxuries" on a cruise -a fancy drink, upscale dining, souvenirs, excursions - not the stuff I kind of assume I won't have to pay for after paying my initial cruise fare. And while AOTS may be "cheaper" than the Fantasy, that doesn't mean it is CHEAP.

 

I will say though, I like the idea of anytime dining. Flowrider, zipline and rock climbing look fun, but not sure if either kid will want to do that. I know that I don't want to wait in long lines to do it, and my younger may not be even able to do it because of height restrictions. And at least the entertainment looks like it will be good, although some of the primary entertainment (Chicago, comedians) isn't kid friendly, so once again, I will need to find something for my kids to do ($) while we go to some of these shows (I love doing the shows together as a family on DCL).

 

Don't get me wrong, from what I see about Allure she is a beautiful ship and I think if/when we go on her we will be "wowed" and have a great time, but I definitely see some things I will have to adjust to compared to being on DCL. I may end up putting it off a few years until both my kids are in their teens...

 

I love to read reviews like these from people who have been on multiple cruise lines and can compare and contrast. Thanks to the OP and other posters for giving me a pretty good idea of what to expect.

[purplethorn]

I also mostly agree with your comparison.

In November we sailed the Magic with our toddler and last week we sailed Liberty of the Seas with her as well (but we also had grandma with us). Had grandma not been with us we would not have been able to enjoy any of the adult fun... because there is really nothing for small children to do.

 

My DD had better fun on Disney hands down. There were plenty of children her age around , there was plenty to do , there was always something for her to see i.e characters (and for me as well bringing my inner child :D)

 

The entertainment at Disney for me was the best - we saw Saturday night Fever and Ice show on LOS , but they did not compare with the all the shows on the Magic.

 

Rotating dining with all different restaurants - the best! I didn't feel the need to go to a specialty restaurant. on RCCL two nights at the main dining room and i was bored - we also had any time seating , but still didn't help that we are mostly in the same space every night.

Food was better on the Magic hands down. Like somebody said above - shrimp, muscles and crab available every day for lunch yum

 

The nursery (and the area for 3-5 yr olds) on LOS was a joke compared to Magic. The Nursery (for non potty trained kids) was this dingy tiny space the hallway getting to it was bigger than the actual space.

In the 3-5 yr old are there was a window for some natural light and the space was bigger, but all they had the kids do is watch TV

 

Cabin on LOS vs Magic - we had a small balcony on the Magic and with the Pack n Play in the middle of the room it was kinda tight. But the bathroom/ tub separate was really nice and all the shampoo, lotion etc provided at Disney vs a shampoo dispenser at LOS which has some terrible shampoo , no conditioner.

The cabin on LOS was huge - we had delux ocean view and with the pack n play in the middle of the room there was still plenty of space to move around, but the shower/bathroom combo ...tiny

Storage - better on the Magic than LOS

 

 

If Disney was just a tad bit more affordable I will not look at another cruise line until my daughter is at least 10. lol

 

 

PS. I have to agree with A2Juju about the pools - LOS's H2O zone was amazing ... too bad we couldn't use it because my DD is still in diapers

Edited April 15, 2014 by purplethorn

[rktilleryj]

We priced 7 day E Carib cruises over our spring break next year. A balcony stateroom on the Fantasy is $6,400 for our family of 3. A balcony stateroom on the FOS is $3,200. We love DCL and have averaged about two cruises a year for the past several years (usually do a 7 day over spring break and a shorter one sometime in the fall). It is a great line and really meets our family's needs (especially our sons!) But honestly, is it really $3,200 better? As has been widely discussed here, DCL has been sharply raising their prices over certain peak times. The same category that we just sailed on the Fantasy this past March is now $1,500 more for the same week next year. So needless to say, we are now looking for other options for our spring break trips - RCL is definitely an option now so I really appreciate this thread.

[e2011]

We priced 7 day E Carib cruises over our spring break next year. A balcony stateroom on the Fantasy is $6,400 for our family of 3. A balcony stateroom on the FOS is $3,200. We love DCL and have averaged about two cruises a year for the past several years (usually do a 7 day over spring break and a shorter one sometime in the fall). It is a great line and really meets our family's needs (especially our sons!) But honestly, is it really $3,200 better? As has been widely discussed here, DCL has been sharply raising their prices over certain peak times. The same category that we just sailed on the Fantasy this past March is now $1,500 more for the same week next year. So needless to say, we are now looking for other options for our spring break trips - RCL is definitely an option now so I really appreciate this thread.

 

No it is not $3,200 better. The problem with Disney on holidays like Spring Break is supply and demand. They just have the 4 ships. In terms of actual cabins available RC dominates. Just the Oasis and Allure can have 10,800 guests in double occupancy. Thats more than all 4 Disney ships combined! And RC has I believe around 8 ships serving the Florida area.

[Irene7]

No it is not $3,200 better. The problem with Disney on holidays like Spring Break is supply and demand. They just have the 4 ships. In terms of actual cabins available RC dominates. Just the Oasis and Allure can have 10,800 guests in double occupancy. Thats more than all 4 Disney ships combined! And RC has I believe around 8 ships serving the Florida area.

 

One of things I really dislike about the mega ships is they put a ton of cabins for mass bookings. I can't stand an over crowed ship. I would rather sail on a ship with less cabins at a higher price, hands down. So for me, it is $3,200. better for many reasons.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Irene7

[A2Juju]

One of things I really dislike about the mega ships is they put a ton of cabins for mass bookings. I can't stand an over crowed ship. I would rather sail on a ship with less cabins at a higher price, hands down. So for me, it is $3,200. better for many reasons.

 

Good point Irene... the strange thing that I found on our cruise last week (RCCL LOS) is that despite being a sold out Spring Break cruise, I felt like it was much less crowded and definately less chaotic than our Disney spring break cruise last year. i think the difference is in the number of different locations available for gathering (Royal Caribbean had exponentially more options for hanging out alone or in groups) and apparently in the number of deck chairs available (we never had a problem getting a chair on RCCL and I remember feeling like I had to get out to the deck early to "save" a chair on Disney).

 

Just adding thoughts based on my cruise last week. I have to say, Royal Caribbean really impressed me in ways I was not expecting. Despite that, I'll be on a 12-night European cruise with Disney in July.

[e2011]

I have never felt crowded on the mega ships. I guess because they have the staff and real estate to provide for the large amount of guests. I hear that a lot but it just isn't the case from my experience. Sometimes people draw that conclusion having never stepped foot on a mega ship.

[Loonbeam]

The LOS is one of the better RCCL ships for passenger space ratio. The Enchantment for example felt much more crowded even with significantly less Pax. The LOS has a lot of spaces to go get away from the crowds if you want as you noted.

 

Good point Irene... the strange thing that I found on our cruise last week (RCCL LOS) is that despite being a sold out Spring Break cruise, I felt like it was much less crowded and definately less chaotic than our Disney spring break cruise last year. i think the difference is in the number of different locations available for gathering (Royal Caribbean had exponentially more options for hanging out alone or in groups) and apparently in the number of deck chairs available (we never had a problem getting a chair on RCCL and I remember feeling like I had to get out to the deck early to "save" a chair on Disney).

 

Just adding thoughts based on my cruise last week. I have to say, Royal Caribbean really impressed me in ways I was not expecting. Despite that, I'll be on a 12-night European cruise with Disney in July.

[Irene7]

I have never felt crowded on the mega ships. I guess because they have the staff and real estate to provide for the large amount of guests. I hear that a lot but it just isn't the case from my experience. Sometimes people draw that conclusion having never stepped foot on a mega ship.

 

True but there are people that have stepped foot on a mega ship and felt it was too crowded. I guess it depends on cruise to cruise and what people consider crowded.

[Host Mick]

One of things I really dislike about the mega ships is they put a ton of cabins for mass bookings. I can't stand an over crowed ship. I would rather sail on a ship with less cabins at a higher price, hands down. So for me, it is $3,200. better for many reasons.

 

When the Disney Dream was announced, I did the math on a simple comparison and I found that the gross tonnage/passenger was slightly higher on the Dream than on the Magic. So, in that metric, there's a little more room on the larger ships.

[DISNEY FANTASY]

To me when on RCI the good was hit and miss, they had the odd good meal but some real bad ones, normally a lottery which one of the offerings on the bland menu is actually good, RCL can't do deserts in the MDRs but can in Winjamma. Entertainment and the cruise director were terribly bad on the RCI ship I was on, he thought he was good, there was even a ten min video of him in one show one night talk about vanity, RCL treat you as a wallet, far more than other cruise lines, coffee is terrible forcing you to buy good stuff, Steak there is an upcharge for a good one, OJ I shipped away post breakfast to force you to buy after and you can't fill up another persons soda package container unless there there and treated like a criminal that you just nicked it. RCL do have good staterooms, there pools are better than DCL stateroom hosts same as DCL, And I like booking my shore trips further in advance and paying there and then to GRT them out of the way, Concierge lounge on RCI was good and perks like reserved seats for the show better than DCL. Disney have there rotational dining and themed nights which RCI can't do, but RCI think it's ok to sell you cook books whilst eating. Premium dinning on both is good.

 

 

Sent from my iPad.

[Irene7]

When the Disney Dream was announced, I did the math on a simple comparison and I found that the gross tonnage/passenger was slightly higher on the Dream than on the Magic. So, in that metric, there's a little more room on the larger ships.

 

I get that, but I don't consider the Dream to be a mega ship. She is Large, no doubt, and I love that ship. But I was talking about the mega ships as in Oasis class and Quantum class ships. Another poster wrote that they are not crowded but I disagree. Don't get me wrong, I like RCCL and they are my second favorite line, and they have a lot to offer. But IMO these type of ship are built to bring on the masses. When it comes to RCCL, I prefer the Voyager class (not much bigger than the Disney Dream) and when it comes to NCL, I prefer the Jewel class (not much bigger than the Disney Magic). The Breakaway is not a whole lot bigger and I have not sailed on her, but friends of mine complained that she was very crowded and that the public spaces were not big enough to handle it. I have been on the Epic and found her too crowded. I guess it all comes down to what we as individuals find comfortable.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Irene7

[TinyPinkBug]

I have sailed on both the Disney Dream and Fantasy. Last week we sailed on RCI's Enchantment of the Seas in their Royal Family Suite. The Enchantment is the slums compared to the Dream and the Fantasy. Don't get me wrong, we had a good time on our cruise but it was in spite of the ship.

 

Dining - Disney does a great job from the moment you walk onto the ship offering both Cabanas and one of the dining rooms, RCI only had Windjammers which was an absolute mess. No seating, lots of chaos, my kids wanted to get off the ship less than 30 minutes after boarding. We found the dining room food to be about the same on both ships, but the buffet food on Disney was fresher, better quality and offered much healthier options. Also, the ice cream machines rarely worked on the Enchantment, if we were lucky enough that one was working it was only one side of one machine and there was a line for it. Disney has multiple machines, never an issue. The Enchantment also ran out of apple juice the second day of our 4 day cruise. No problems with room service on DCL, always fast and efficient. On the Enchantment, our morning breakfast we ordered on the door hanging menu arrived over a half hour past the requested time frame and without the coffee we ordered!

 

Rooms - Disney. Disney. Disney. The beds are so comfortable in all rooms on DCL, the bathrooms are clean and well maintained. There are on demand movies and shows for the kids on TV. The shampoo, conditioner and lotion were top of the line and replenished as needed. On the Enchantment, we had the Royal Family Suite. The beds were harder than any bed I have ever slept on, pillows were just flat and hard. The master bathroom in our room was poorly designed, when we turned on the shower the water either pushed the too short curtain out of the shower spraying water directly on the floor or ran along the back rim of the tub, around the side and onto the floor. Either way our bathroom floor was always flooded after a shower. As suite guests were were supposed to have upgraded amenities which included just one small tube of shampoo and conditioner that were never replenished. Fortunately we did bring our own just in case. No in-room movies or on demand on the Enchantment, the only kids channel was Cartoon Network which does not have shows that are appropriate for small children. I am not even going to get into the issues of sewer smell through-out the ship, the orange shower water, lack of hot water and toilets not flushing on the Enchantment.

 

Pools - This one isn't as straight forward. DCL pools were good because they are fresh water, the depth is perfect in the mickey pool for younger kids but they were so packed you really couldn't enjoy them. Even though they were well monitored by pool staff, there were several instances of them being closed for hours due to 'potty accidents' on both our cruises. The Enchantment had a lot more pool space per passenger, but it was either one foot deep or 5.5 ft deep. Another issue on the Enchantment was that the splash pad was rarely opened even when it was supposed to be and none of the pool attendants could tell me anything more than to ask someone else who referred me back to the last person I asked. Repeat. Also, no one was monitoring activities at the pools at all on the Enchantment. There were toddlers and babies in swim diapers in the pools, one family even set up camp in the splash pad with a dozen or so sand toys spread around.

 

Private island - I actually enjoyed Cococay more than Castaway Cay. We ventured along the nature trail of Cococay and found barefoot beach. It was great, we were almost the only ones there. It was really nice and relaxing. Castaway has a lot of bells and whistles though while RCI charges for everything on their island.

 

Kids activities - Disney is Disney, no need say more. :-) On the Enchantment, who ever said Royal Caribbean was family friendly obviously did not sail on the Enchantment. The kids area is NOT what you see in the advertised pictures supplied by RCI. It is a long room with three dividers and a few TVs. They split the kids into 3 groups and I don't think I ever saw more than 3 youth staff members. RCI charges if you want to leave the kids over lunch, where the kids just sit at tables outside of Windjammers for an hour. There was only one family activity scheduled the entire cruise which was a 10 minute event where they made flubber. The only other family activities were shuffle board, the rock climbing wall and the bungee trampoline which requires participants to be over the age of 6.

[ilovetexas]

TinyPinkBug, You're comparing a ship that was built in 1997 (Enchantment) to ships built in 2011 and 2012 (Dream and Fantasy, respectively). A fairer comparison would be between RCCL Allure, which was built in 2011.

 

I've only been on one RCCL, which was Monarch of the Seas. It's not even in their fleet anymore. Even though I sailed on it just a few years ago, I've refrained from comparing it to DCL since it isn't really an apples to apples comparison.

 

FWIW, I didn't like the food. I'm hoping my next RCCL will be better and from what I've heard, it is much better on the newer ships.

[TinyPinkBug]

TinyPinkBug, You're comparing a ship that was built in 1997 (Enchantment) to ships built in 2011 and 2012 (Dream and Fantasy, respectively). A fairer comparison would be between RCCL Allure, which was built in 2011.

 

I've only been on one RCCL, which was Monarch of the Seas. It's not even in their fleet anymore. Even though I sailed on it just a few years ago, I've refrained from comparing it to DCL since it isn't really an apples to apples comparison.

 

FWIW, I didn't like the food. I'm hoping my next RCCL will be better and from what I've heard, it is much better on the newer ships.

 

This is true. But things like staff, service, amenities, food quantities and quality are representative of the cruise line regardless of the ship.

 

I have heard the Disney Magic has its own plumbing problems and that is about the ship itself so that could have been left out.

[Irene7]

TinyPinkBug, You're comparing a ship that was built in 1997 (Enchantment) to ships built in 2011 and 2012 (Dream and Fantasy, respectively). A fairer comparison would be between RCCL Allure, which was built in 2011.

 

I've only been on one RCCL, which was Monarch of the Seas. It's not even in their fleet anymore. Even though I sailed on it just a few years ago, I've refrained from comparing it to DCL since it isn't really an apples to apples comparison.

 

FWIW, I didn't like the food. I'm hoping my next RCCL will be better and from what I've heard, it is much better on the newer ships.

 

I would say a better comparison would be with the Freedom Class, since they are not old ships and the size is comparable and then the upcoming Quantum class, although that class is pretty big too but nothing compared to Oasis. The Oasis class is just so huge that it would be apple to oranges in that case, except for service which can be compared between any ship.