jackjia199637 Posted February 26, 2014 #1 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I know this is a hot topic. But my curiosity is in the legal aspect of the smoking on cruiseship. Shouldn't casino and most spaces on board be considered as Public Space, so isn't it illegal to smoke in public spaces when ship docked in ports like Vancouver in Canada where smoking in public space is illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubechick Posted February 26, 2014 #2 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Being that the casino is closed when in port, I don't believe that's an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
che5904 Posted February 26, 2014 #3 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Well at least this is a new angle :rolleyes: Check out the flags that fly on the ships, they are not property of any provice or city, therefore do not fall under our bylaws. Smoking is not a criminal offense in Canada it is still legal here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garycarla Posted February 26, 2014 #4 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I know this is a hot topic. But my curiosity is in the legal aspect of the smoking on cruiseship. Shouldn't casino and most spaces on board be considered as Public Space, so isn't it illegal to smoke in public spaces when ship docked in ports like Vancouver in Canada where smoking in public space is illegal. I am not a lawyer, and have not recently slept in a Holiday Inn, but... I think they are not considered as part of the "city" and therefore may not be tied to those rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasinoCruzGirl Posted February 26, 2014 #5 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I know this is a hot topic. But my curiosity is in the legal aspect of the smoking on cruiseship. Shouldn't casino and most spaces on board be considered as Public Space, so isn't it illegal to smoke in public spaces when ship docked in ports like Vancouver in Canada where smoking in public space is illegal. Good lord Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackjia199637 Posted February 26, 2014 Author #6 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Well at least this is a new angle :rolleyes: Check out the flags that fly on the ships, they are not property of any provice or city, therefore do not fall under our bylaws. Smoking is not a criminal offense in Canada it is still legal here. Not a criminal offense, but isnt still baned in the public space, and who ever breaks it will receive a fine for up to $300? I mean if they close casino due to laws, doesnt that mean public health laws should apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
time2cruise1 Posted February 26, 2014 #7 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Not a criminal offense, but isnt still baned in the public space, and who ever breaks it will receive a fine for up to $300? I mean if they close casino due to laws, doesnt that mean public health laws should apply. Relax there is no indoor public space that anyone can smoke in while docked in any city except the isolated cigar bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
che5904 Posted February 26, 2014 #8 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Not a criminal offense, but isnt still baned in the public space, and who ever breaks it will receive a fine for up to $300? I mean if they close casino due to laws, doesnt that mean public health laws should apply. You are arguing against yourself, since the casino is closed there is no "public place" on NCL that is open in Canadian waters. So even if you had a point there would be no fines levied because no "public place" is open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SissasMomE Posted February 26, 2014 #9 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I know this is a hot topic. But my curiosity is in the legal aspect of the smoking on cruiseship. Shouldn't casino and most spaces on board be considered as Public Space, so isn't it illegal to smoke in public spaces when ship docked in ports like Vancouver in Canada where smoking in public space is illegal. It is not a US or Canadian flagged ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackjia199637 Posted February 26, 2014 Author #10 Share Posted February 26, 2014 You are arguing against yourself, since the casino is closed there is no "public place" on NCL that is open in Canadian waters. So even if you had a point there would be no fines levied because no "public place" is open. I See now, haven't thought about that, not sure about others, but when casnio is closed, isnt its still "open" where people walk through it to go to places they want to go. Thats the case i saw on the last time i cruised on pearl, although no body was smoking in the casnio when its closed(docked at Vancouver port). If they were to smoke in casnio when it was closed as people walking by to go to restaruants, would that be illegal in this case. Just a curious question, thats all. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garycarla Posted February 26, 2014 #11 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Actually, the casino area is open. But the machines and tables are not operating. During the boarding and debarkation, you will find people hanging out in there. So, legal types.. is the casino open? Or is an area of the ship sometimes acting as a casino open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
che5904 Posted February 26, 2014 #12 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I See now, haven't thought about that, not sure about others, but when casnio is closed, isnt its still "open" where people walk through it to go to places they want to go. Thats the case i saw on the last time i cruised on pearl, although no body was smoking in the casnio when its closed(docked at Vancouver port). If they were to smoke in casnio when it was closed as people walking by to go to restaruants, would that be illegal in this case. Just a curious question, thats all. :) If it's closed it's no longer a "public place", it would be like sneaking into your local Timmies if the restaurant is closed. It would then be up to management to call the cops for breaking and entering :rolleyes: :D Seriously, you are now making yourself look silly. Unless you intend to get off the ship and call the bylaw officer of Vancouver, I really wouldn't waste any more thought on this. As they would then need Canadian Border services and our Canadian security for permission to board the ship to check out the complaint. As you can see it is a ridiculous argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SissasMomE Posted February 26, 2014 #13 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Actually, the casino area is open. But the machines and tables are not operating. During the boarding and debarkation, you will find people hanging out in there. So, legal types.. is the casino open? Or is an area of the ship sometimes acting as a casino open? Not open. The common area is open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackjia199637 Posted February 26, 2014 Author #14 Share Posted February 26, 2014 If it's closed it's no longer a "public place", it would be like sneaking into your local Timmies if the restaurant is closed. It would then be up to management to call the cops for breaking and entering :rolleyes: :D Seriously, you are now making yourself look silly. Unless you intend to get off the ship and call the bylaw officer of Vancouver, I really wouldn't waste any more thought on this. As they would then need Canadian Border services and our Canadian security for permission to board the ship to check out the complaint. As you can see it is a ridiculous argument. I see now. that question just strike me, now looking back, you are right. But i am not trying to argue at all. Its just a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SissasMomE Posted February 26, 2014 #15 Share Posted February 26, 2014 If it's closed it's no longer a "public place", it would be like sneaking into your local Timmies if the restaurant is closed. It would then be up to management to call the cops for breaking and entering :rolleyes: :D Seriously, you are now making yourself look silly. Unless you intend to get off the ship and call the bylaw officer of Vancouver, I really wouldn't waste any more thought on this. As they would then need Canadian Border services and our Canadian security for permission to board the ship to check out the complaint. As you can see it is a ridiculous argument. It's like standing outside of a closed restaurant. The restaurant itself is closed. Can't utilize it; however, the common area, being the sidewalk and/or walkway is, of course open. Silly comparison, but I can't think of a logical way to answer :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
che5904 Posted February 26, 2014 #16 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) It's like standing outside of a closed restaurant. The restaurant itself is closed. Can't utilize it; however, the common area, being the sidewalk and/or walkway is, of course open. Silly comparison, but I can't think of a logical way to answer :o :D :D Well if nothing else, it probably gave a few of us a good laugh for today, I'm still shaking my head. :confused: ;) Edited February 26, 2014 by che5904 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare kjbacon Posted February 26, 2014 #17 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Well, there is a difference here and a big one. Since the casino is open air (no doors) being closed only means that you cannot gamble. But you can go in ad smoke, which happened frequently when we were on the Gem last week. The casino, even when open, has more smokers on the sides like a smoking lounge than smoking gamblers. If you could go into the closed restaurant to smoke but not eat, now you have a comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garycarla Posted February 26, 2014 #18 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Not open. The common area is open. If you can sit in a chair at a slot machine, is that still a common area or casino? Just a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban trekker Posted February 26, 2014 #19 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Here's the solution - the next time the OP is in Vancouver on a cruise ship phone the City's 311 service and tell them you want a by-law officer to come onboard and issue a ticket for each and every smoking offense they spot - the city can use the money to pay for bike paths and chicken coops. Given that we can't even get them to come by some of the outdoor cafes where people smoke in open defiance of the law perhaps your charm and wit will get them to come. Cheers! Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paraveina Posted February 26, 2014 #20 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Well, looking at Saint John NB Canada, there's a pedway system that connects several buildings together in the downtown area. Even when those businesses are closed, you can still walk through the hallways to move through the pedway system. Smoking is not allowed even though it is "closed". I think you might have an argument to prohibit smoking in the closed casino while in port, but it would be a nightmare to police. Each city would have to enforce it separately, and each city would have to be contacted in the first place, they'd have to rely on self-reporting because they can't really go on the ship anyways, right? I don't think any city would consider policing it worth their while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreestyleNovice Posted February 26, 2014 #21 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Ship is considered private and not public, defined by fare paying pax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SissasMomE Posted February 26, 2014 #22 Share Posted February 26, 2014 If you can sit in a chair at a slot machine, is that still a common area or casino? Just a discussion. Good point! I would say yes - since the intent for which the chairs are to be used is not present at that time. If you were to sit in the chair when the casino was operational, and not gamble, is that a common area? I would say no because the chair, at that time, is intended to be used for slot machine play. If there is no slot machine play offered at the time, it's just a chair ... IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
che5904 Posted February 26, 2014 #23 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Ship is considered private and not public, defined by fare paying pax. Well that actually does not hold any water where the provincial guidelines are concerned for bylaws. No different than our restaurants being privately owned but the OP doesn't have a case, since no one would actually act on this whether the OP is right or wrong. And the bylaw officer has to actually see the infraction to be able to ticket it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
che5904 Posted February 26, 2014 #24 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) If you can sit in a chair at a slot machine, is that still a common area or casino? Just a discussion. For discussion purposes the casino is closed "as per my dailies". The fact that there are no doors to keep those who feel to wonder in and out, or the fact that NCL doesn't encourage or discourage those who choose to "trespass". So my answer to that would be it is not a public space. Our bylaws state "public space" not common area. Edited February 26, 2014 by che5904 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
che5904 Posted February 26, 2014 #25 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) Well, looking at Saint John NB Canada, there's a pedway system that connects several buildings together in the downtown area. Even when those businesses are closed, you can still walk through the hallways to move through the pedway system. Smoking is not allowed even though it is "closed". I think you might have an argument to prohibit smoking in the closed casino while in port, but it would be a nightmare to police. Each city would have to enforce it separately, and each city would have to be contacted in the first place, they'd have to rely on self-reporting because they can't really go on the ship anyways, right? I don't think any city would consider policing it worth their while. Is that pedway system not owned by Saint John, if so there is your answer, it is an enclosed city public space. I'd have to bet that if you looked up your bylaws they have included that space in their write up. Because technically it doesn't fall under the current ban for Canada or the ban for the province of N.B., so I'd bet the city has it somewhere in their paperwork. Edited February 26, 2014 by che5904 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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