Help! Are "X" liable for any compensation here

[Shorebirdee]

This is my first post on the Boards but I have been an ardent follower for a year or so. What brings me to this point is our experience on Celebrity's Baltic Cruise in June. Some of you may have read that there were real health problems on board the June 4 sailing. Many people on the ship had upper respiratory problems, some, including my husband got pneumonia. As a result we missed much of the cruise, unable to get off the ship and tour due to exhaustion, missed activities, meals etc. My question is - is there any sense pursuing this any further than I already have with Celebrity - do they bear any responsibility or are they likely to compensate us in any way. We have already received a negative response from them just on a request for ship credit or upgrades on another cruise we have booked. And I'm wondering if it is worth my while at least having a lawyer send them a letter. Their response actually went so far as to suggest that my husband was obligated to turn himself in to the medical department and be quarantined for up to 72 hours. About half the passengers on board were coughing their heads off and Celebrity did nothing to acknowledge it - as a matter of fact flatly denied that there was a problem - I overheard that conversation with another irate pasenger at the main desk. Perhaps some of you experienced cruisers can offer some suggestions on a possible approach, or are cruiselines just not liable for health problems like these that affect multiple passengers, and should I just forget it.:mad:

[teedee]

You have touched on a very hot topic here, be ready for some heated responses.

 

I'm sorry this happened to you, but I don't think you are going to get any compensation. Celebrity has no control over someone coming onboard sick and making others sick. Any time you get that many people in a somewhat confined space you are at risk of getting sick. Happens on airplanes all the time.

Any litigation against the cruise line must take place in southern Florida. Guess who they are going to side with?

Terri

[cruising with marti]

Why would the cruise lines in any way be responsible, for passengers catching the flu brought on board by other passengers????

 

Sorry no compensation is due.:rolleyes:

 

 

Phil

[mmp13]

Let me first say that I am so sorry that your vacation was ruined by illness. I think everyone can relate to that dissappointment. almost all of us have had some special event or trip ruined by illness at some point in our lives. That being said I wonder if you sue or expect compensation from your church or synogue if you become sick after attending a service? what about a theatre after a show if a cold sets in? A school after a child comes home with a cold? the airline you flew with if you become sick afew days after traveling?, your friends, if you go to their home and a few days later everyone has the flu? I could go on and on but the point is living life around other people is risky. Illness is carried by humans and wherever a group of us gathers there is the chance someone will get sick or has been sick and is carrying something. Like I said life is risky. Again I am sorry you had a bad vacation. Hope your next one is better. I don't really see that the cruise line owes you anything . In fact, the truth is many epople are carrying and spreading infections before they themselves become symptomatic. Some viruses and infections can be spread for up to 2 weeks before the carrier becomes sick. Your own husband could have been carrying the infection before he boarded the ship. Again sorry your husband had the bad luck to get sick. Hope you have many wonderful trips in your future.

[PeteMan]

Hi mmp13,

 

Slightly different but here in the UK we have had a number of stomach bugs on cruise ships and passengers are usually compensated. Google for "aurora cruise compensation" and you should find some interesting articles (e.g. this article from the bbc http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3238221.stm).

 

More importantly I live in somewhere called Cheltenham in the UK, freaky hey!

 

Pete

[wieslaw]

............. About half the passengers on board were coughing their heads off and Celebrity did nothing to acknowledge it - as a matter of fact flatly denied that there was a problem - I overheard that conversation with another irate pasenger at the desk.............................. offer some suggestions on a possible approach, or are cruiselines just not liable for health problems like these that affect multiple passengers, and should I just forget it.:mad:

 

Hi Shorebirdee and welcome to the board.

I similar to others feel sorry that your husband and others were so sick that could not enjoy the cruise but...........what would you suggest that needs to be done to protect 'us' from each other ???

Should the crew and or medical personnel 'check' every one of us as we are boarding ? Check us for some 'virus' and or 'bacteria' or just look if we look 'healthy enough' to board the ship ? Or what to do if we seem to be healthy but we cough anyhow (some smokers do) ? How about if we start getting sick a day or two, or three later ( from something that we were exposed on a plane, in a restaurant or any other place ? What should they do ???

 

My wife have been sick on a cruise before and I know that is not much fun........and I am not trying to be sarcastic here........but I am really wondering what can they do ? Let us board the ship, keep us in a cabin, take us off the ship, keep us in the hospital ?????? And who and how is going to decide who gets on a ship and who does not ? and who stays where ? and who stays and who 'goes' off the ship ???

I wish, I knew the answers........maybe someone else does.

 

Wes

[Happy ks]

I have to agree with the others who say your husband may have brought the upper respiratory infection along with him from home. I'm no medical professional, but typically, it takes 3 - 7 days after exposure to start feeling or showing any signs of a cold or the flu. It may have been coincidental that so many people were sick at the same time.

 

Upper respiratory virsuses are caused by viral germs, shared by handshake, doorknobs, countertops, elevator buttons, a person sneezing into the air. Unless the ships' personnel disinfected all surfaces the moment someone touched them, there is a possibility of these germs will be there. Scary world, huh? Colds and upper respiratory infections are not caused by cold temperatures, I read this every year during "cold and flu season", more correctly known as when people are inside together more, sharing more germs.

 

I'm sorry your vacation was ruined, but unless the illness was directly caused by something the ship did (ie. food poisoning from dirty kitchen or kitchen worker), there is little that can be done about it.

 

If he was coughing/sneezing the day of, or within the 7th day after, boarding, he may have shared his virus with others, should he be compensating them?

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Some of you may have read that there were real health problems on board the June 4 sailing. Many people on the ship had upper respiratory problems, some, including my husband got pneumonia. As a result we missed much of the cruise, unable to get off the ship and tour due to exhaustion, missed activities, meals etc. My question is - is there any sense pursuing this any further than I already have with Celebrity - do they bear any responsibility or are they likely to compensate us in any way. We have already received a negative response from them just on a request for ship credit or upgrades on another cruise we have booked. And I'm wondering if it is worth my while at least having a lawyer send them a letter. Their response actually went so far as to suggest that my husband was obligated to turn himself in to the medical department and be quarantined for up to 72 hours.

 

Short answer. No liability or responsibility has been determined by a court. Therefore, "X" has no legal liability.

 

Should you pursue it any further? That's entirely up to you. Can you afford to pay a lawyer and to travel to south Florida a few times for unknown number of days.

 

Are they likely to compensate you in any way? They already stated their position on that.

 

It certainly would be good customer relations if they would give all who were ill a ship credit or upgrade. If most people did as your husband did and failed to see the ship's doctor, how will they determine who to give these to. Some who did see the doctor may have received some compensation, who knows.

 

That said, I do hope you and your husband are able to sort this out and find a solution that you are comfortable with.

[b8tzm]

Chance for compensation= "slim & none" and Slim left town when you paid for the cruise according to the small print

 

 

 

Short answer. No liability or responsibility has been determined by a court. Therefore, "X" has no legal liability.

 

Should you pursue it any further? That's entirely up to you. Can you afford to pay a lawyer and to travel to south Florida a few times for unknown number of days.

 

Are they likely to compensate you in any way? They already stated their position on that.

 

It certainly would be good customer relations if they would give all who were ill a ship credit or upgrade. If most people did as your husband did and failed to see the ship's doctor, how will they determine who to give these to. Some who did see the doctor may have received some compensation, who knows.

 

That said, I do hope you and your husband are able to sort this out and find a solution that you are comfortable with.

[nu2sea]

Does anyone remember the Legionaire's disease that spread thru' a convention of American Legion members? I believe it was determined that the bacteria that caused the outbreak resulted from the AC unit at the hotel.

 

Unless your illness can be proven to have been caused by the cruise ship, it is unlikely that any compensation is or should be forthcoming. There are just too many other ways that a virus can be picked up and/or spread. Tying it to the ship would be difficult, if not impossible.

 

Sorry it interferred with your vacation. I once came down with pneumonia that required bed rest during my first two week vacation in Southern California. It always seems so unfair when we are sick on our own time. ;)

 

:)

Susan

[Char]

I got sick on my Alaska cruise in June and never gave it another thought! These things happen and we have to roll with the punches. I visited the infirmary after I started coughing-2 days after I started to get larangytis. I was treated and started to get better the next day.

 

My cruise was still wonderful, but I sought medical help as soon as I felt the need and our cruise insurance paid the $911 bill in full. If anyone is wondering about the high bill--full work up with blood labs to determine if it was viral or bacterial, 3 courses of IV antibiotic, oral antibiotic pills, 3 breathing treatments w/meds and TLC from the medical staff. I was very impressed with the quality of treatment on Infinity. One of the nurses had been under contract with Celebrity for 8 years and several others had been there more than 5 years.

 

Compensation never entered my mind.

[ingrid295]

There are a couple of long threads from travelers on the Celebrity Xpedition over the last year that discuss this issue extensively. Search the Celebrity forum for Xpedition posts.

 

We did not become unwell while on Xpedition to Galapagos, but on some sailings, as many as 40 or 50% of the passengers reported becoming ill for several days with some form of stomach ailment. On at least one sailing, the passengers described wearing towel diapers... it sounds like it was a pretty nasty illness.

 

There were varying opinions, regarding fault, but in the thread there is posted a telephone number for the Celebrity headquarters. There were so many posts re. the "Galapagos Gallop" that people were canceling their trips and it definitely got Celebrity's attention. I believe it was a Director by the name of Michael Sheehan who was contacting people to discuss their illness & asking passengers to call or email him to discuss it. There is contact information including an email address posted on that thread. (if you can't find it, email me -- jazz4az@yahoo.com)

 

I don't believe anyone received compensation, but at least someone heard their complaints..

 

As previous posters have indicated, it is very difficult to pinpoint the actual cause of a viral infection. They are common in large forums like hotels & cruise ships & college dorms. If sufficient people become sick during a sailing, it is supposed to be reported to the CDC. But the passengers must report to Medical in order to be counted.

 

We traveled to St. Croix once and there was an outbreak of Legionnaires Disease that was tracked back to the hotel where we stayed. The A/C had been noisy & ineffective in our hotel room, so my travel companion got up & turned it off early in the night. The couple who were in the next room left the hotel early, as we did, because the hotel was in poor repair. We flew to San Juan for the rest of our week & they presumably went home to the States. We had talked to this couple in the airport before boarding our respective flights...

 

About a week later at work, we were contacted by the CDC and learned that the guy we had spoken to in the airport had died from Legionnaires Disease that they traced back to that Hotel. The CDC was calling all the guests to determine if any one was or had become ill after staying at the hotel.

 

So if an outbreak is serious & gets reported, the CDC will contact the other guests who traveled from the U.S.

 

Ingrid

[lysolqn]

Sorry your husband fell ill on your cruise; it must have been terribly disappointing for both of you. I have to agree with the previous posters since I can't imagine how you can possbily hold the cruiseline responsible for your husband's illness any more than you can hold an airline responsible for a cold you might come down with after a flight, or your employer responsible for an illness you might very well have contracted in the office.

[daniela]

Many people catch viruses on their flights and get sick later on. You just never know. On two of our cruises Constellation (Med) and Infinity (South America) people were sick with either intestinal problems or viral. On the Infinity in Jan/Feb 2006 everything that was shiny on the ship was slathered with a goo kind of disinfectant. They really do try to contain germs but it's almost impossible since many people won't even admit they're ill. I know that cabin attendants have to be alert to illnesses and report them.

Hope everyone has safe and healthy travels :)

[Shorebirdee]

I really do appreciate all the responses and thank those of you who expressed concern and empathy for our spolied vacation. After Teedee's reply, I was beginning to feel sorry I had asked the question, and was bracing myself for an onslaught. But I'm happy to see that didn't occur. Instead, the responses were objective and helpful and I can certainly see the other side of the coin. Many of you are absolutely correct of course - we wouldn't look to our employer, our church etc. if a similar situation occurred there. It was really a case of not knowing what went on in the many situations that you read of, e.g. where ships are infected with the Norwalk virus or other similar ailments. I somehow assumed that passengers in those situations received some type of compensation, and felt that if that was the case, we should also. As I said, my initial request of Celebrity was simply for minor credits or upgrades, I really wasn't looking to own the ship.

 

I was also really interested in the reply from PeteMan in UK regarding the Aurora and was very surprised that there might be a more litigous society than ours. Although it seemed somewhat encouraging toward my point of view, it really was a different siuation. I guess I really never felt that Celebrity were totally responsible or that they could prevent something like this beginning, but I truly felt they never did enough to prevent the spread. As I said, there was never any acknowledgement that there was an epidemic on board, and people really felt they were trying to keep a lid on it. The only action that was taken was to increase the number of hand cleansing stations that were available, placing them at the entrances to the dining areas. But even with that, they never indicated that there was a purpose to it, and I felt that if they had publicised it in the daily blurb that more attention would have been paid to washing hands etc. and that it might have helped contain the problem. Of course as someone suggested it is possible that my husband may have been a carrier - would the fact that he didn't come down with symptoms until the 8th day exonerate him :rolleyes: - sorry, couldn't resist that! Again I appreciate the time everyone took to make some very sensible points, and I guess we can all be thankful that no one was very seriously ill, (although my husband and some of the others who were ill might disagree) or as Ingrid reported, no one died. That was a scary scenario. And I guess in view of all else that's going on these days, we can be glad no one was missing. Thanks again. No lawyer's letter this time!;)

[holomuku]

Just fyi- we took a 14 day Panama Canal cruise on the Infinity in Dec of 2003. My dh had an ear problem and we had to visit the dr.

 

interestingly enough, the dr happened to be of the same middle eastern ethnic background as my dh and they became "fast friends" (how many Lebanese do you find on a Panama Canal cruise?) and I think he felt comfortable talking to him. He told us that when we boarded in San Diego he had three people taken off before departure and refused them passage as he felt they were too ill to travel. He made it sound like he (or someone else) was standing there at the boarding area looking for passengers that might have illness problems so they could evaluate them. I have no clue how they compensated these people as I didn't ask. As was pointed out- it can take days for some illnesses to appear so it's very difficult to monitor. It was clear to us that they do try and prevent any obvious problems and that's all one can ask. Clearly the last thing they want is a bunch of sick cruise passengers....

 

I hope I'm never refused passage because of illness, however if I am perhaps I'll understand and appreciate the intention which is to keep the ship as healthy as possible for both passengers and crew.

 

And as earlier posters said- if you start to feel ill, go to medical asap and that way you can potentially prevent passing anything on.

 

we also noticed that on this trip (as well as others) the staff are constantly wiping down public areas, stairway banisters, etc. Bottom line- I think they do the best they can to try and prevent problems but when all is said and done- you're dealing with a very large group of people. Even with those precautions we missed one port due to a passenger having a heart attack (who could predict that?) causing us to return to a previous port to medi-vac him back to the U.S. ...unfortunately they still were not able to save him.

 

It was still a great trip, we were fortunate and stayed healthy and as for the missed port- hey, that's a reason to take another cruise so I can say I've been to Costa Rica. And to compare missing a port to what this gentlemen's wife lost- "no big deal".

[canderson]

Just fyi- we took a 14 day Panama Canal cruise on the Infinity in Dec of 2003. My dh had an ear problem and we had to visit the dr.

Any chance that would have been the 7 December '03 cruise (50/50, since there were only two that month!). I've never been on a cruise where so many passengers weren't alive to finish the cruise. Talk about ruining a cruise.

 

Our very first cruise was many years ago with NCL. My wife had invited her mother and aunt to come with us.

 

My wife's mother had a stroke a few weeks before the cruise, but was doing very well and expected to make a full recovery. She died at home during the cruise.

 

Her aunt, who had come with us, was tendered off at about 3:00am and sent back to the U.S. on a jet evac. She was suffering from serious internal GI bleeding and took two pints on the ride home. We didn't think she'd make it. As it happens, she lived on for a many years to see the age of 102.

 

Talk about the cruise from Hell. (No, we didn't ask for compensation.) This always tends to put things into perspective for us.

[susie Q]

On a recent European cruise on the Millenium, my husband was under quarantine...not his idea...it practically ruined our vacation.( Norwalk Virus) First time to Europe and he missed several ports. Celebrity gave us two fairly nice coupons to use on another cruise within a two year period. My son-in-law is a Maritime attorney and he said we should take what was offered..there are more loopholes that you could count. I truly know what a bummer it is to have a quaratined spouse when you feel fine!

[PeteMan]

I was also really interested in the reply from PeteMan in UK regarding the Aurora and was very surprised that there might be a more litigous society than ours.

 

Mmm, not sure we're more litigious, but us Brits like to ensure fair play. If the cruise line has acted inproperly or slowly and allowed an outbreak to happen then someone will sue. Cruise lines have certain legal duties, what they state in their contracts is often not worth the paper it's written on.

[LMKohler]

I have never been ill on a cruise until our Summit cruise in 2004 (our 6th). Toward the end of this 10 day cruise I came down with some sort of virus. Of course, my husband caught it (or maybe something else on the plane) and ended up in bed at home for almost a week. Compensation never entered our minds. We obviously caught something on board from another passenger.

 

On our cruise in 2005 also on board Summit -- we took special care to keep our hands clean (soap & water & purell) and even wiped down the cabin surfaces (from suggestions here on this board) every day with sanitized wipes. Also, noticed that Celebrity had added hand sanitizers. For whatever reason (and we may have just been lucky) we never got so much as a sniffle.

 

So, now I'm convinced, you have to do whatever you feel you can to ward off these pesky bugs. Celebrity is always cleaning their ships and wiping down surfaces. Hopefully, you won't get sick -- but -- who knows?

[Iamboatman]

On my cruise earlier this month on the Radisson Seven Seas Mariner they required each passenger to use an anti-microbial hand lotion before boarding the ship for the first time and had it available for all passengers at the boarding areas and entrance to the casual dining/buffet restaurant and elsewhere. They also had wipes available at the internet lounge and casino.

 

It was interesting to see how many people took the few seconds to grab that little automated squirt of lotion or a wipe!

 

Also, when we boarded we could smell bleach most everywhere on the ship.

 

These things won't prevent illnesses from passing, but it is a good assist...and much better than the silly little questionaires that the cruise lines were making passengers fill out at embarkation asking about recent illnesses.

[Begete]

We were on one the last, if not the last, Regent Sea Alaska cruises (1995?)before they went bankrupt. That was the infamous cruise where the ship got stuck on an icefloat, while at the same time almost the entire crew, followed by about half of the passengers got deathly ill with some sort of flu.

 

I do recall most of meals turning into buffets because there were not enough ambulatory waiters to serve the meals.

 

My husband, son and I were fine, but most passengers, sick as they were, missed their flights home because it took almost an entire day (at the end of the cruise) to free the stuck ship.

 

This was not a happy group of returning vacationers....

 

Since we did not have any problems, personally, we never had the need to investigate the legalities. But since the cruiseline went out of business shortly thereafter, I guess others passengers did.

 

Nonetheless, it has taken us a long time to get back on a ship (10 years starting Saturday on the Constellation).

 

On our first cruise, in 1977, in the Carribbean, we hit a storm. I was 4 months pregnant. The ship (Norweigan) broke some stabilizers and a number of passengers were eventually flown off the ship with broken bones. My husband was the only passenger that made it to every meal. There was eventually a pool going as to whether our son would be born with lungs or gills.

 

A few years later, we took a boat to the Isle of Capri. Said son (born with lungs) threw up all over me and we spent our entire time on the isle buying new clothes.

 

13 years later, we booked another Caribbean cruise where they did not look closely at teens for drinking age. Said son threw up all over the cabin.

 

At no time did we hold the cruiseline repsonsible. I am a lawyer.

 

3 years ago, we did a river cruise in China. It was wonderful. We didn't have a single complaint. Said son was not with us. Perhaps the curse has been broken?

[Iamboatman]

I am not sure if cruising with your son isn't the lawsuit waiting to happen! LOL

 

Maybe the cruise lines might consider suing you.:D

[teedee]

I really do appreciate all the responses and thank those of you who expressed concern and empathy for our spolied vacation. After Teedee's reply, I was beginning to feel sorry I had asked the question, and was bracing myself for an onslaught. But I'm happy to see that didn't occur.

 

Sorry if I scared you with my reply!:) I have seen this topic get a bit heated and wanted to prepare you. I am also very glad it didn't happen.

Terri

[WeBeCruisin']

Mmm, not sure we're more litigious, but us Brits like to ensure fair play. If the cruise line has acted inproperly or slowly and allowed an outbreak to happen then someone will sue. Cruise lines have certain legal duties, what they state in their contracts is often not worth the paper it's written on.

 

For the record, PeteMan is not exactly objective and unbaised. He has posted numerous times repeatedly and aggressively trying to convince everyone that he deserves a full day's rebate and future cruise credit because one of his ports was cancelled.

 

On our July 23 Med/Greek Isles cruise, we had Mykonos and Kusadasi, Turkey, cancelled and I heard no one grousing about how they deserved rebates and credit.

 

On a 2001 Legend of the Seas Mediterranean Cruise, I came down with bronchitis which later developed into pneumonia, thanks to the windy ash-laden air around the craters of Mount Etna. I don't think I've ever been that sick, yet it never occurred to me to demand compensation. Trying to wrangle luggage from the ship to Barcelona and then to Amsterdam and the international flight with a temperature of 103.5 and pneumonia was a nightmare.

 

Two years ago, we spent a week at The Paradisus, a 5-star all-inclusive resort in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic. Something like 95 per cent of the people there that week got stomach sicknesses for almost the whole week, and we even brushed our teeth with bottled water. There was no compensation, nor did anyone ask for it. On the flight back, we talked with people who had been to Aruba and the Yucatan, and apparently the same problem was very widespread in the Caribbean that week.

 

Stuff happens, and we aren't automatically "entitled" to have people give us money or rewards if it's an inconvenience for us.

 

Allen