Does the $12.95/day auto-tip ALL goto staff?

[LMaxwell]

In NCL's guest ticket contract it pretty clearly spells out that NO, the entire DSC does not go to the staff.

 

-First, some portion is deducted to go into a general crew welfare fund. Percentage unknown.

 

-Secondly, NCL state that they have their own performance metrics for staff to meet and it is NCL's sole discretion how much of the remaining pile someone gets based on those internal metrics.

 

Here is the NCL guest ticket contract. Page 2. Section 3C.

 

http://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/Guest_Ticket_Contract_03_2014.pdf

 

 

The real question - Why are people vital to hotel operations, yet are NOT guest facing, such as people in laundry services, being made to be dependent on a discretionary service charge when they never see a single guest? Before this auto-tip stuff no one ever suggested to tip them, because they earned a wage commensurate with their job.

[LMaxwell]

I am amazed at how many scummy people this has brought out. Punish the workers for what the corporation does.

 

A way of protest if you want is not to cruise NCL, a way of being an A*^ is to not pay the DSC. Again as has been said before even if you remove and tip cash (don't believe you will anyway) you will still miss the behind the scenes people who participate in the DSC.

 

Having worked for NCL I can attest that 100 percent goes to the staff, not all as gratuities, some goes to things like staff parties, promotions for the staff, etc.

 

Why don't you stop calling people scummy? First of all, NCL gives people the option what to do. Can't be wrong for selecting any of the options. Secondly, NCL clearly state that not all of the DSC goes directly to crew as payment. No one is taking anything out on the crew by tipping directly with cash. You are severely misguided and you are not gaining support by calling people insulting names either.

 

Your last paragraph actually AGREES with the fact that NCL doesn't give ALL the money, which if you bothered to read the title of the post rather than just use it as an excuse to dump on people, you might have realized this. You said a whole lot just to end up verifying the OP's question as YES, not ALL of the DSC goes to crew. I've never heard of any other industry taking an employees gratuities, holding them, divvying them up as the company sees fit, and using it to pay for crap like parties or giveaways. Those are usually paid out of revenues, not out of discretionary charges for service. If that happened at a US based company, ownership taking tips and giving someone a cake instead, the attorney general in whatever state that happened would be wetting his bed and waking up doing the happy happy joy joy dance. :rolleyes:

Edited April 1, 2015 by LMaxwell

[LMaxwell]

Are you going to hand cash to the lady who is scrubbing the public restroom or the fellow vacuuming the corridors?

 

Honestly? No. No one would. That's abnormal. They should be paid a livable wage for their work supporting hotel functions that are not guest facing. Just like they always were when

A - Staffing levels were higher

B - Before Auto-tips

 

The compny is not supposed to profit from the DSC, only the employees.

 

Good Morning Barb Nahoumi, let's leave ideals alone for a moment and deal with realities...

 

When people pre-pay DSC it goes into an NCL account; there may be millions of dollars in there at any given time, and with millions of bucks it is easy to make quite a big chunk of interest on short term investments. Furthermore, even DSC charged on the ship isn't disbursed right away, that may take weeks or a month, or MORE, to be paid out. NCL holds that money and profits off it to some extent as well; yet NCL keep those profits and do not pass on that earned interest to it's employees.

 

If you hold a mortgage and put money for taxes into escrow, your mortgage lender does the exact same thing. They hold the money for the taxes as long as possible and use that money to earn interest, which they keep. They don't give it to the government and they don't give it back to the borrower. It is a profit center for them. Any CFO that let piles of money sit without trying to earn interest would lose their job. But it's not for employee benefit either.

Edited April 1, 2015 by LMaxwell

[rochelle_s]

I was talking about people worrying about what other make and how it is distributed to them in the above, not about tipping or being charged a fee to go there.

 

I did not see any reference in this thread about anyone asking how much anyone made. Just questions about if the entire DSC goes to the crew.

 

The first fee I mentioned was in reference to the DSC. The tipping is in reference to the automatic 18% being added on and the final fee was in reference to room service fees we will be seeing very shortly.

 

As to where you quoted me above; At no point have I ever mentioned or agreed with removing all of the DSC. In rare circumstances adjustments should be made for unacceptable service.

 

I believe our thoughts on the matter are very similar but your earlier comments are appearing as if everyone is the same, regardless of the reasoning behind the adjustment or removal of the DSC and that is a little unfair.

 

 

Rochelle

[maywell]

In NCL's guest ticket contract it pretty clearly spells out that NO, the entire DSC does not go to the staff.

 

-First, some portion is deducted to go into a general crew welfare fund. Percentage unknown.

 

-Secondly, NCL state that they have their own performance metrics for staff to meet and it is NCL's sole discretion how much of the remaining pile someone gets based on those internal metrics.

 

Here is the NCL guest ticket contract. Page 2. Section 3C.

 

http://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/Guest_Ticket_Contract_03_2014.pdf

 

 

The real question - Why are people vital to hotel operations, yet are NOT guest facing, such as people in laundry services, being made to be dependent on a discretionary service charge when they never see a single guest? Before this auto-tip stuff no one ever suggested to tip them, because they earned a wage commensurate with their job.

Maybe its because were using stuff that are cover by it like public restrooms, linens for your cabin(s), sundeck, Atrium, public areas of the ship - if you don't like that policy of a cruise line passing the cost for $12.95 a day for that, then don't cruise with them.

 

Personally, I think those that want to know how thier DSC is use/spent along with how much DSC-cover staff make are either have control-freak issues and/or super nosy. Because if the DSC-cover staff wasn't from third-world countries like the Philippines or Cambodia but from the United States or Canada - would you be asking those MYOB questions?

 

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[LMaxwell]

but when it is not there must be some recourse to the customer and when that customer does something about it they do not deserve to be called out for doing so.

 

 

Rochelle

 

It is called tip guilt. You find it in many servers these days in restaurants who instead of being mad at management for not paying them, have a chip on their shoulders towards customers the moment they walk in the door, and pretty much expect 20%+ regardless of services provided. They are "owed" 20% minimum just for you taking up space and they will provide bad service, holding hostage good services, until you prove you will pay them.

 

There are lots of web forums for restaurant workers and almost universally you find attitudes like that. Seldom do you ever see people discussing how they can provide good service and earn a good or great tip, they just hate the customer before the customer ever shows up and do the bare minimum and believe they are entitled to 20%+.

[AEckhardt]

Honestly? No. No one would. That's abnormal. They should be paid a livable wage for their work supporting hotel functions that are not guest facing. Just like they always were when

A - Staffing levels were higher

B - Before Auto-tips

 

 

 

...

 

 

There are compensated for their work in a base wage. The DSC is not a tip, but a service charge, and NCL may do what they wish with the charge. They choose to use it towards an incentive program for better performance, much like tips are also an incentive for better performance. Therefore, they tell passengers need not tip these employees. They have another way to motivate their crew.

 

Many corporations have bonus or incentive programs. Some have prizes for hitting sales goals, etc and, at the end of the year, bonuses are considered part of your gross income.

 

By removing or reducing your DSC, you are negativity impacting this incentive program.

 

Also, when NCL says they withhold for "crew welfare" it has been stated that this can come in forms of crew parties or other things meant to improve moral. The crew works long and hard, far away from their families. Any good employer would want to keep up staffs moral. You can't blame them for doing so.

[sundercruiser]

I really think the anger expressed here is misplaced.

 

NCL wrote the Contract. They clearly derive some benefit from the way its written, otherwise they'd rewrite it. Per that Contract, pax have the clear right to adjust DSC according to their own discretion. END OF STORY!

 

If you don't like this you have choices. If you work for NCL, you can find another cruise line to work for. If you cruise with NCL, you can find another cruise line to cruise on.

[rochelle_s]

There are compensated for their work in a base wage. The DSC is not a tip, but a service charge, and NCL may do what they wish with the charge. They choose to use it towards an incentive program for better performance, much like tips are also an incentive for better performance. Therefore, they tell passengers need not tip these employees. They have another way to motivate their crew.

 

Many corporations have bonus or incentive programs. Some have prizes for hitting sales goals, etc and, at the end of the year, bonuses are considered part of your gross income.

 

By removing or reducing your DSC, you are negativity impacting this incentive program.

 

Also, when NCL says they withhold for "crew welfare" it has been stated that this can come in forms of crew parties or other things meant to improve moral. The crew works long and hard, far away from their families. Any good employer would want to keep up staffs moral. You can't blame them for doing so.

 

On another thread I had worked the numbers for the Getaway sailing full. That ship alone takes in $137 million a year in DSC...that is some great incentive and they must be some pretty awesome parties!

.

 

 

Rochelle

[LMaxwell]

 

Personally, I think those that want to know how thier DSC is use/spent along with how much DSC-cover staff make are either have control-freak issues and/or super nosy. Because if the DSC-cover staff wasn't from third-world countries like the Philippines or Cambodia but from the United States or Canada - would you be asking those MYOB questions?

 

I would ask the same questions regardless where the crew member is from. That is an insult to hardworking Filipino's and Cambodians. When a company takes MY money and says they may or may not give it to the people that provided me services, I do think it is my business. And if the same company gives me the option to remove the charge (and then I can tip cash to whoever I want) I shouldn't be called scummy for it.

 

Seems like maybe you and this pieshops guy are the ones that should be minding your own business and not be berating people for selecting one of the options NCL offers. Furthermore, you also danced around answering OP's question correctly. NO. ALL of the DSC does NOT go to crew. The answer is plain and simple.

 

Oh, you don't like that NCL offers those options to guests? Maybe take it up with NCL. Or, follow your own advice, and don't spend money with a company who has a particular policy that you don't 100% in total lockstep agree with. :rolleyes:

[Viv0828]

Obviously every cruise line could add the DSC into the cost of the cruise, thus eliminating the problem of folks removing it. So why don't they? There clearly is some big financial advantage to the cruise line to structure things the way they are.

I just look at the DSC as part of the cost of the cruise and tip extra to those that give exceptional service. Last year we cruised on voyages to antiquity where the DSC was included in the cruise price and I liked that waaaay better.

[buckirj1]

Not my business how they divvy it up. I'm good, so long as I don't have to go back to the awkward business of handing out tip envelopes like I'm Lord of the Manor. What others might choose to do isn't my business either.

Edited April 1, 2015 by buckirj1

[LMaxwell]

 

Also, when NCL says they withhold for "crew welfare" it has been stated that this can come in forms of crew parties or other things meant to improve moral. The crew works long and hard, far away from their families. Any good employer would want to keep up staffs moral. You can't blame them for doing so.

 

That should come from revenues, not from discretionary service charges. When you go to a restaurant and leave a tip on your credit card does the restaurant hold that tip money and then decide if they are going to give that to the server, or give them a cake? Of course not. And let's not forget NCL in the same breath say they are the ones that reserve the right to decide based on their own internal metrics how that money is distributed, and how much. I will be more inclined to tip in cash so I know people that work hard and provide me great service have cash in hand when our engagement is through. Then they are not subject to the company holding the money for X amount of time, or only giving them Y% of the money (some amount below 100%). Because I have a much harder time believing that crew must turn in cash tips throughout the cruise than I do believing the company holds automatically charged gratuities and does not disburse them 100%.

 

We all agree NCL allows guests this option.

[LMaxwell]

 

By removing or reducing your DSC, you are negativity impacting this incentive program.

 

 

Possibly.

 

But there is little better incentive program than cash in hand...

[AEckhardt]

On another thread I had worked the numbers for the Getaway sailing full. That ship alone takes in $137 million a year in DSC...that is some great incentive and they must be some pretty awesome parties!

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

Rochelle

 

 

On that same thread I also replied to you comment. If you take $12.95 x 7days x 4000 passengers and divide that by 1500 crew, it comes out to a little more than $240 a week. That's not really a huge amount. It's not exactly distribute like that, but consider NCL takes some off the top for "crew welfare" and it's divided based of performance, perhaps goals met, etc, some get more than others, it doesn't seem so unfair to me. I know I have had to reach certain sales goals to get my monthly bonus and that bonus fluctuated based on overall profits. It doesn't seem much different.

[backsbanny]

cash is the best tip you can give them...

[triptolemus]

I can't speak to the 18% as I am not working there currently.

 

Again can't speak to the 18% for same reason as above

 

Too bad, because that's what all the "trailer park" folks have been discussing over the last few days. All these 18% and convenience fees are exactly the subject of the conversation.

 

And all the DSC cheerleaders take it so seriously... so easy to bait you guys. I've been saying I will remove it for the last few days if they charge me for room service. Truth is, I'll be in a suite where the fee doesn't apply. You won't find me at guest services dicking with the DSC.

 

Just try to stay on topic. The discussion is about the NEW stuff, not the crusty old DSC.

[LMaxwell]

On that same thread I also replied to you comment. If you take $12.95 x 7days x 4000 passengers and divide that by 1500 crew, it comes out to a little more than $240 a week. That's not really a huge amount. It's not exactly distribute like that, but consider NCL takes some off the top for "crew welfare" and it's divided based of performance, perhaps goals met, etc, some get more than others, it doesn't seem so unfair to me. I know I have had to reach certain sales goals to get my monthly bonus and that bonus fluctuated based on overall profits. It doesn't seem much different.

 

The DSC compensates hotel staff. Not engineering, maintenance, officers, guest services. Nowhere near 1500 people are in the pool. I would estimate the pool is nearer to half that number.

[backsbanny]

we need to tip the guest services staff as well and dont forget the captain and the officers???why do we not tip these guys???we must all tip atleast 20% of the fare paid to the officers on board

[maywell]

I would ask the same questions regardless where the crew member is from. That is an insult to hardworking Filipino's and Cambodians. When a company takes MY money and says they may or may not give it to the people that provided me services, I do think it is my business. And if the same company gives me the option to remove the charge (and then I can tip cash to whoever I want) I shouldn't be called scummy for it.

 

Seems like maybe you and this pieshops guy are the ones that should be minding your own business and not be berating people for selecting one of the options NCL offers. Furthermore, you also danced around answering OP's question correctly. NO. ALL of the DSC does NOT go to crew. The answer is plain and simple.

 

Oh, you don't like that NCL offers those options to guests? Maybe take it up with NCL. Or, follow your own advice, and don't spend money with a company who has a particular policy that you don't 100% in total lockstep agree with. :rolleyes:

 

Oh so you ask the supermarket, Bloomingdale, Macys, the auto repair shop, Amazon, McDonald etc what they do with your money before or after you paid for it? Like I said, control freak and/or nosy issues.

 

I call BS on asking Americans how much they make working for the cruise lines because if you're not asking over in Walmart or Target how much they're making, you're never going to anyway - I calling it out even if it is un-PC.

 

The DSC tips and pays whatever incentives NCL likes to threws - that was already answer by other people. Am I going to removing it? No, because 1) I paying for myself and 2) it covers wide of stuff that I do or use on a cruise like a room steward, MDR, buffet, walking along the deck -cheaper to pay the DSC than bring stacks of dollar bills plus envelopes in my purse. Are going to tip every staff member that serve you, even the guy that made your eggs in the buffet? Be honest- answer is no, you're not....

 

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[AEckhardt]

That should come from revenues, not from discretionary service charges. When you go to a restaurant and leave a tip on your credit card does the restaurant hold that tip money and then decide if they are going to give that to the server, or give them a cake? Of course not. And let's not forget NCL in the same breath say they are the ones that reserve the right to decide based on their own internal metrics how that money is distributed, and how much. I will be more inclined to tip in cash so I know people that work hard and provide me great service have cash in hand when our engagement is through. Then they are not subject to the company holding the money for X amount of time, or only giving them Y% of the money (some amount below 100%). Because I have a much harder time believing that crew must turn in cash tips throughout the cruise than I do believing the company holds automatically charged gratuities and does not disburse them 100%.

 

We all agree NCL allows guests this option.

 

 

NCL chooses to have different incentive structure for most of their employees rather than cash tips from passengers. If you choose to continue tipping in cash, I'm sure the staff won't complain, I do so also ( on top of the DSC) but don't knock a business for trying to come up with what they see as a better approach to incentivizing their staff, especially those who do not interact with passengers as much, but do make a great impact in our enjoyment. Perhaps they believed this was a more fair way to go about it.

 

I believe there must be some tax purpose or legality that keeps the DSC separate. It is a rather large corporation and as we all know, every penny counts. But the crew seem to be somewhat happy with how they are compensated or they would move on. I doubt that, due to these legalities, NCL could just keep a piece of that pie for pure profit, but there are always loopholes.

 

Yes, there is much speculation, but I, for one, do not want to hurt the crew that works so hard to make my vacation enjoyable. I don't want to be spiteful or vindictive. I want to have a pleasant time. If I have a complaint, I will not brood over it, I will speak up at that time, direct it to the appropriate person and move on. And if I come across a staff member that makes me feel special, I will tip them cash and show my greater appreciation. I will consider the specialty restaurants and know their auto tip before eating. if I find service lacking, I will speak up and handle it on the spot, and if I find service above and beyond, I will leave more than the auto tip, just as I would do at the bar.

 

If you are mad at the way NCL handled the DSC, direct your complaint to corporate, but don't hurt those who work hard and cannot control corporate policy.

[punkincc]

Many corporations have bonus or incentive programs. Some have prizes for hitting sales goals, etc and, at the end of the year, bonuses are considered part of your gross income.

 

By removing or reducing your DSC, you are negativity impacting this incentive program.

 

Also, when NCL says they withhold for "crew welfare" it has been stated that this can come in forms of crew parties or other things meant to improve moral. The crew works long and hard, far away from their families. Any good employer would want to keep up staffs moral. You can't blame them for doing so.

 

 

The only reason, IMO, that how NCL pays it's crews is any of our business at all is that they tell us that the DSC and auto grats we pay make up the "incentive" portion of their pay. The only thing I need is some reassurance that this is indeed where the money goes. If NCL is collecting some interest off the pot before disbursement, more power to them. If some of it goes into a Welfare Fund, I have no problem with it. These ships are "home" to these employees for months at a time. The other crew are their "families". I imagine the crew lounges, parties and activities offered are a welcome respite. Happy crew make happy cruises.

 

As far as the DSC being discretionary, yes you have the technical right to adjust or remove it. But to do so ends up penalizing the guys who are doing a fabulous job as well. And sometimes I feel like poor service is not necessarily the waiter's fault, but is a result of things controlled by those above him. So should I penalize him because management is to blame for poor staff planning or whatever? And it is difficult for me to reconcile penalizing most of the staff on the ship just because one dinner in the MDR was slow. Better to complain to those above so that your displeasure is noted and maybe something will improve for the passengers who come behind you.

 

In the US any employer who dipped into employee tips would be in hot water. Surely there is some Maritime equivalent that governs crew pays in these types of situations. And if so, I can't believe NCL or any other cruise line would risk being in violation. So if they are using the DSC for crew pay and "welfare" that is all I need to know.

Edited April 1, 2015 by punkincc

[LMaxwell]

If you are mad at the way NCL handled the DSC, direct your complaint to corporate, but don't hurt those who work hard and cannot control corporate policy.

 

I have directed complaints at NCL. They do not care and they do not listen. In the thread asking if I would remove DSC all I said was that with all the additional service fees NCL is charging, I will be very mindful of receiving great service and I will be much less tolerant of poor service. NCL are raising MY expectations as to the service I should expect.

 

In the end, *IF* I find the need to reduce (though probably never remove) DSC (poor service, onboard management ineffective at resolving service problems) that is an option provided by NCL and I would still be working within the framework of their rules. And I would not feel guilty because I would still be providing cash to those who provide great service. Just how it should be; the customer choosing who receives the biggest reward for services based on the quality of that service.

[LMaxwell]

 

In the US any employer who dipped into employee tips would be in hot water. Surely there is some Maritime equivalent that governs crew pays in these types of situations. And if so, I can't believe NCL or any other cruise line would risk being in violation. So if they are using the DSC for crew pay and "welfare" that is all I need to know.

 

These ships are not flagged in the US. US laws regarding labor do not apply. Look at whatever location the ships are registered in and you will find very loose labor standards. I agree, any company in the US caught dipping into employee tips would be in big trouble.

[AEckhardt]

The DSC compensates hotel staff. Not engineering, maintenance, officers, guest services. Nowhere near 1500 people are in the pool. I would estimate the pool is nearer to half that number.

 

 

That was a rough number. On the mega ships, they actually upward of 1600 crew. And you're right, not all the staff is included, but either way, Rochelle's assessment was not taking into account that bonuses and other compensation is given to the crew out of it, perhaps even holiday bonuses, not just one giant annual party. I would think they would have small parties on the ship rather regularIy, perhaps even weekly, but who knows.

 

Point is, when divided up weekly, it's not as massive as it seems.