Convoluted/deceptive promotion? - need help

[SailAwayInAugust]

There IS a confusing part about the NCL website...

 

When you price out a trip for 3 or 4 people, it will take the total cost and divide by the number of passengers and show you the per person cost. So, like in our case, if you have 4 people in the room, and the total cost is let's say $4000, then it will say the per person cost is $1000. Until you actually look at the details, you wont see the actual breakdown for passengers 3 and 4... Therefore you are mislead into thinking that the passenger 1 and 2 are always $1000 and you're not getting a break for 3 and 4. Online it spreads the discounts afforded to passengers 3 and 4 across all 4 passengers to give you an average per person price.

 

In the example above, with the promotions it might be that passengers 1 and 2 are $1500 per person and passengers 3 and 4 are $500 per person, which totals to the same $4000 total cost. You just have to keep in mind that until you see the confirmation summary, the price per person is an average.

 

 

This is what a ton of people DO NOT understand! All they have to do is indicate that on the website and that will cut out so much confusion. It makes sense to average the total price per person to get the big picture, but to those cruising NCL for the 1st time, they just wont see it that way until they really break everything down.

[phissy]

We are in a suite on the POA for January. We got all 4 of the promos for May. NCL is not going to give anything for free, we realize that we are really paying for all the perks we receive. When they added a $200 OBC later, I looked up the fare and it went up exactly $200! Since we are Platinum, the UDP will "cost" NCL less and they do not do the UBP, since it is Hawaii. They gave us $75 per port per cabin excursion credit. We probably won't use this either. But we plan on enjoying our cruise and enjoying the sunsets.:)

[SAILPRO]

People love "free" stuff. We always joke about that and how gullible people can be. It's not so funny when I'm the gullible one!!!

 

Pretty sure you've heard that there is 'No Free Lunch'. :D

[SissasMomE]

Fine, so there's TWO "deceptions" at work.

 

The first is the obvious one: calling 3rd/4th passengers "50% off," when almost ANYBODY confronting such language for the first time out is going to believe that's 50% off the only prices they have the ability to see: the brochure or website rate (for 1st/2nd passengers). Instead it's 50% off some imaginary other rate that NCL calls "rack rate."

 

Which brings us to the second "deception," which is the use of that term "rack rate." As I've already said that conjures up a vision of an invariant rate set in stone somewhere. Yet, as many here (including you, with your "you cannot book last minute and expect to get a rock bottom low rate") suggest, that rate is NOT set in stone and in fact varies over time and perhaps due to the ship filling up.

 

If NCL has full control over the "rack rate" and can change it at any time, and hikes it in response to the ship filling up, I will say again, that's headed directly toward "deception" territory. That the website obscures what you're paying for 3rd+ passengers doesn't help.

 

You can spin it anyway you like. I am an experienced cruiser, who sails almost the same time every year. I know what I normally pay. I am paying much less for this cruise, on a brand new ship with free UBP this year. Hardly a deception :rolleyes: The 3rd and 4th rate is always capacity controlled. Always. I don't know anyone who cruises often that would book a last minute cruise and expect #3 and 4 to be cheap. Last minute, they are almost always higher than pax 1 and 2.

 

It's really not rocket sceince. The web site shows the average cost for the total number of passengers. All you have to do is click "summary" and the breakdown of what each person is paying is clearly there. Wow - so difficult!

Edited May 13, 2015 by SissasMomE

[SissasMomE]

Funny side note, related topic.

 

A social acquaintance of ours builds custom homes. When he wants to boost sales, he advertises a 'free pool'. We were talking about business one night and I asked if it really was free or if they manipulated their prices prior to offering it. He said they jack up the base price of the home by MORE than the cost of the pool. He is immensely entertained by people that think they can get a free pool.

 

Buyer beware. Always.

 

Good Lord - I would hope that would be common sense to people. :eek:

[SAILPRO]

We are in a suite on the POA for January. We got all 4 of the promos for May. NCL is not going to give anything for free, we realize that we are really paying for all the perks we receive. When they added a $200 OBC later, I looked up the fare and it went up exactly $200! Since we are Platinum, the UDP will "cost" NCL less and they do not do the UBP, since it is Hawaii. They gave us $75 per port per cabin excursion credit. We probably won't use this either. But we plan on enjoying our cruise and enjoying the sunsets.:)

 

Yup, we think the same phissy.

 

NCL is not going to give anything for free, we realize that we are really paying for all the perks we receive. BINGO! (Just need some common sense and basic math).

 

But somehow, many think they got it for 'FREE' LOL :D :D

[rvsullivan]

Fine, so there's TWO "deceptions" at work.

 

The first is the obvious one: calling 3rd/4th passengers "50% off," when almost ANYBODY confronting such language for the first time out is going to believe that's 50% off the only prices they have the ability to see: the brochure or website rate (for 1st/2nd passengers). Instead it's 50% off some imaginary other rate that NCL calls "rack rate."

 

Which brings us to the second "deception," which is the use of that term "rack rate." As I've already said that conjures up a vision of an invariant rate set in stone somewhere. Yet, as many here (including you, with your "you cannot book last minute and expect to get a rock bottom low rate") suggest, that rate is NOT set in stone and in fact varies over time and perhaps due to the ship filling up.

Just to be clear. Many business's use rack rates which they set and adjust as needed. Hotels, cruise lines and resorts (both all inclusive and otherwise) utilize rack rates. They set and adjust as needed, both seasonally and as business dictates, i.e. as they fill up, the rack rate goes up. Nothing deceptive or deceitful at all. Rack rates are almost never published (partly because they change all the time).

 

If NCL has full control over the "rack rate" and can change it at any time, and hikes it in response to the ship filling up, I will say again, that's headed directly toward "deception" territory. That the website obscures what you're paying for 3rd+ passengers doesn't help.

 

[jennyfromtheculdesac]

Fine, so there's TWO "deceptions" at work.

 

The first is the obvious one: calling 3rd/4th passengers "50% off," when almost ANYBODY confronting such language for the first time out is going to believe that's 50% off the only prices they have the ability to see: the brochure or website rate (for 1st/2nd passengers). Instead it's 50% off some imaginary other rate that NCL calls "rack rate."

 

Which brings us to the second "deception," which is the use of that term "rack rate." As I've already said that conjures up a vision of an invariant rate set in stone somewhere. Yet, as many here (including you, with your "you cannot book last minute and expect to get a rock bottom low rate") suggest, that rate is NOT set in stone and in fact varies over time and perhaps due to the ship filling up.

Just to be clear. Many business's use rack rates which they set and adjust as needed. Hotels, cruise lines and resorts (both all inclusive and otherwise) utilize rack rates. They set and adjust as needed, both seasonally and as business dictates, i.e. as they fill up, the rack rate goes up. Nothing deceptive or deceitful at all. Rack rates are almost never published (partly because they change all the time).

 

If NCL has full control over the "rack rate" and can change it at any time, and hikes it in response to the ship filling up, I will say again, that's headed directly toward "deception" territory. That the website obscures what you're paying for 3rd+ passengers doesn't help.

 

I guess what I've learned today is there is no real "deception" as they never state what the 50% is off of. Maybe if I'd used my brain a little more I would have seen that. Again, you live and you learn, and I've been schooled on cruise pricing and gimmicks this morning. Thank you for your reply!

 

Oh and the NCL rep never used the term "rack rate". That was what I inferred she was talking about. But it's exactly what you explained in your reply and with any travel industry it fluctuates.

Edited May 13, 2015 by jennyfromtheculdesac

[conandrob240]

It's underhanded and deceptive at best. At worst, maybe something else. The day before the KSF promo, the price of the 3rd/4th guest doubled nearly across the board for most sailings. In many cases, the price of the 3/4th guest is considerably higher than the first two. This had nothing to do with the ship being full- it was almost solely a function of the KSF/50 promo. Smoke and mirrors.

[Casino Comp Chick]

Random date on the BA for August to Bermuda

 

Brochure Inside $1,999

Our Inside $949

You Save 53%

Brochure Oceanview $2,399

Our Oceanview $1,249

You Save 48%

 

Brochure Balcony $2,899

Our Balcony $1,349

You Save 53%

Brochure Suite $3,299

Our Suite $1,649

You Save 50%

[Maddysdaddy]

OP - as someone who has yet to take their first cruise on NCL and therefore much less versed on the history of the company than are most of the posters on CC, I sympathize with your confusion and would argue that the way in which the offer has been presented is confusing (at best).

 

I booked a 2016 cruise a few days prior to the Kids Sail 1/2 price offer, and spent hours on hold with NCL the Saturday the 1/2 price + UBP offer came out, only to find out that my daughter's 1/2 price fare was virtually identical (about $40 less) than what her full price fare had been prior to the sale.

 

To quote my late grandfather, "Figures lie and liars figure". Either way, we're getting a mini-suite with a large balcony for significantly less than what we would have paid for an oceanview room on DCL, so I'm not too fussed at the end of the day, but I have to say that NCL didn't leave a great first impression with me as a result.

[legion3]

Escape booking KSF promo

 

Passenger 1 $1489 Taxes $120.46

Passenger 2 $1489 Taxes $120.46

Passenger 3 $0 Taxes $120.46

Passenger 4 $0 Taxes $120.46

 

$3219.84

______________________________________

 

Same cabin type, same cruise, now promo is at 1/2 off 3/4

 

Passenger 1 $1529 Taxes $120.46

Passenger 2 $1529 Taxes $120.46

Passenger 3 $249 Taxes $120.46

Passenger 4 $249 Taxes $120.46

 

$4037.84

Edited May 13, 2015 by legion3

[legion3]

Is $249 half of $1529 nope An example of creative accounting. :cool:

[Demonyte]

Is $249 half of $1529 nope An example of creative accounting. :cool:

 

 

Nowhere does it say that it should be. Those two prices are in no way related to each other - promo or no promo.

[legion3]

Nowhere does it say that it should be. Those two prices are in no way related to each other - promo or no promo.

 

Nowhere does it say it shouldn't be.

 

What does 1/2 price mean?

[Demonyte]

What does 1/2 price mean?

 

 

If apples are advertised as 50% off, price of bananas have nothing to do with it.

[legion3]

If apples are advertised as 50% off, price of bananas have nothing to do with it.

 

Unless my shopping list included both apples and bananas then the price of both would dictate how I spend my money. clearly I might get more apples because of cost and the fact that bananas go bad faster. ;)

 

When my cruise shopping list includes 4 passengers the price of passenger 3 and 4 does matter to my overall cost. Unless of course 3 and 4 go bad faster.

[luvtheships]

Nowhere does it say it shouldn't be.

 

What does 1/2 price mean?

 

In the language of ncl it means half of the 3/4 pax brochure rate which we change at will

 

It also means

 

That we expect first time and still newish type cruisers to not catch on that nobody ever pays brochure anyway but we are hoping they wont figure it out but if they do who cares and since the seasoned cruisers who have figured it out are not are target group anymore we don't care if those seasoned cruisers come back

 

Oh and we here at ncl don't care what is being said on social media because that can't hurt us. Lol

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Edited May 13, 2015 by luvtheships

[tvguy72]

Someone please explain to me how a cruise line sale is any different from a retail store sale. When Kohl's has a sale on Levi jeans. The buy 1 get one at half price is ALWAYS off the MSRP.

 

These constant rants are without merit. If your going to have an intelligent discussion, at least has the courtesy to have a point. So idiots like me can figure out what your saying.

 

FU$K ISIS.[emoji35]

[insidecabin]

You can just ignore anything to do with pricing promotions with all cruise lines, meaningless marketing. They may hint which cruises to look to but usually not because they are cheaper but because the cruise line want more people booking them.

 

Just look at the cost of the cabins and if more than 2people look at cabin combinations.

 

prices are just made up as they go along.

 

You do have to look at the perks when comparing different grades/cruises as often higher grades get better perks but the value(to you) may be less than the price difference.

 

Our last NCL the upgraded cabin was $17pppd more but had the UBP and UDP as perks.

 

With all lines there are also the price inversions where the normal higher grade higher price broken and a grade may be significantly cheaper than lower grades so when price watching don't just look for drop on your booked grades

[conandrob240]

Someone please explain to me how a cruise line sale is any different from a retail store sale. When Kohl's has a sale on Levi jeans. The buy 1 get one at half price is ALWAYS off the MSRP.

 

These constant rants are without merit. If your going to have an intelligent discussion, at least has the courtesy to have a point. So idiots like me can figure out what your saying.

 

FU$K ISIS.[emoji35]

 

Nope. Here's what happened:

 

The price of jeans at Kohls has always been $29.99. For years. The night before the buy 1, get one 1/2 off, all the jeans were re-priced to $59.99.

 

Now, how does it sound?

[luddite]

Is $249 half of $1529 nope An example of creative accounting. :cool:

 

Only in the NFL and major league baseball.

[Demonyte]

Nope. Here's what happened:

 

 

 

The price of jeans at Kohls has always been $29.99. For years. The night before the buy 1, get one 1/2 off, all the jeans were re-priced to $59.99.

 

 

 

Now, how does it sound?

 

 

Price of 3rd and up passengers is never static for years unlike the price of jeans at Kohls so that comparison is invalid. Also, as said before, those kind of offers are often based on MSRP, not the actual price product has been sold.

 

But as said, marketing gimmicks? - yes, deceptive? - no.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Nope. Here's what happened:

 

The price of jeans at Kohls has always been $29.99. For years. The night before the buy 1, get one 1/2 off, all the jeans were re-priced to $59.99.

 

Now, how does it sound?

 

How about if when the sale started and when you got to the register they pulled out a brochure and said the first pair are indeed $29.99 but the second pair are $39.99 with the sale according to our brochure.

 

Bill

Edited May 14, 2015 by S.S.Oceanlover

[S.S.Oceanlover]

One last question (maybe, maybe not) for you seasoned cruisers. Long story, NCL's website states in more than one place "automatically get free or half price 3rd and 4th stateroom guests plus apply any promo code". That's directly from their website before the cabin selection screen (I've even screen shot multiple screens) a normal person would assume that means if the first and second passenger in an inside stateroom are being charged $829 a piece, the third should be $414.50, to sleep in a bunk hanging off the wall, right? No. The third person is being charged $999.50. I've been on the phone with NCL all this morning up the line to be told that the promotion is always off of their rack room rates, and that the third and fourth person always pay a different fare from first and second. In this case, from what she explained to me, the first and second passengers were already discounted and the $999 is based off of some elusive (my word, not hers) rack rate. Nowhere on their website are there disclaimers for that or any explanations. I think I really ticked her off when I said it was borderline deceptive advertising. I screen shot all of the promotions too which show no disclaimers. Does this sound wrong to anyone but me? Of course it's a last minute cruise and it's the last three person cabin on the ship and they have me. I need to book by today but where should I go to complain? Or am I wasting my time and energy?

 

I guess maybe count yourself lucky that you are getting the "sale price" during this never ending sale.

 

According to NCL the first 2 would be $899pp and the 3rd/4th would be $2000pp if not for "the sale".:rolleyes:

 

Bill