Jackets and Dancing

[Jimmys Chippy]

Another thought has occurred to me. Can anybody not see the irony here? Even the slightest hint that Cunard are tampering with the dress code brings forth howls of outrage and indignation. People protest with cries of, ‘Cunard’s formality is why I cruise with them’. And, ‘It is what makes Cunard special.’ People are even advised to seek out another less formal vessel if they don't agree.

And yet, and yet, it would appear that all this goes by the board during the dancing in the Queens Room, probably the most formal space on the vessel after the restaurants. Sweat soaked jackets are cast off like clouts when May is out.

Sweat Soaked Jackets Indeed. Persiflsge! Balderdash! it is an air conditioned room on a modern ocean liner, not the African Queen. Ok,so it can get a little warm sometimes but for goodness sake it’s not the (insert jungle of choice) Jungle. Water is to hand as are other cooling beverages.

I notice that the Gentlemen hosts keep their jackets on and they dance virtually every dance all night and I have yet to see any of them collapsing with heat stroke crying 'Water! Water!' as the strains of the last waltz die away.

 

Although, in the interest of fairness, there is a point to the contrary which has just popped into my head. If one of those ladies who are absolutely bound to catch heel or toe in their long dress, (according to someone), then the presence of exposed braces could provide a means of succour by their graspability. And being elasticated would gently lower the lady to the ground safely. But she must remember to leave go at this point to avoid the bungy jump effect. Gives a whole new colour to the expression 'Man the Braces' does it not.

MM

 

 

I like this post solely for the use of the word persiflage.

[Slow Foxtrot]

But I worry, ladies of Cunard's vintage, falling and breaking a hip is quite serious. Foxy, fantasy, Q-step- do you think I'm over-reacting? ....

 

No, not over-reacting, it's sensible advice. As with all things, it's simply a matter of degree. If a lady's long ballroom dress is trailing on the floor they would be ill-advised to do anything other than slow dances. Generally, the experienced and keen ballroom dancers know this anyway.

 

As regards gentlemen removing jackets on the dance-floor; it's a fact that many dinner jackets/tuxedo's are tailored from quite heavy material and if one dances numerous jives, quicksteps, cha cha cha's etc then they become seriously uncomfortable. On the other hand, if just the odd waltz is your cup of tea then there's no problem.

 

Like many Cunarders I appreciate and enjoy the formality involved but a dance-floor is not the Britannia Restaurant and I'm sure that the dress-code police appreciate this.

[BobBranst]

No, not over-reacting, it's sensible advice. As with all things, it's simply a matter of degree. If a lady's long ballroom dress is trailing on the floor they would be ill-advised to do anything other than slow dances. Generally, the experienced and keen ballroom dancers know this anyway.

 

As regards gentlemen removing jackets on the dance-floor; it's a fact that many dinner jackets/tuxedo's are tailored from quite heavy material and if one dances numerous jives, quicksteps, cha cha cha's etc then they become seriously uncomfortable. On the other hand, if just the odd waltz is your cup of tea then there's no problem.

 

Like many Cunarders I appreciate and enjoy the formality involved but a dance-floor is not the Britannia Restaurant and I'm sure that the dress-code police appreciate this.

As you point out, it is a matter of degree. My DW usually brings 3 or 4 long evening gowns for a TA crossing. The length of her dresses is such that it may touch the floor, but not "trailing" or too restrictive. Since we enjoy dancing and only sit when we get tired or a dance that we have not learned, she would not even think about buying a dress that would not be suitable for dancing. Perhaps it makes a difference that we dance American Smooth Style as opposed to International Style ballroom dance.

 

I don't know about the dress-code police, but I've noticed that many long evening dresses are being sold as long "ballroom gowns". I've yet to find anyone advertising that they were selling "dining room gowns" :)

[fantasy51]

I talked this over today with my dance teacher after our lesson. His take on it is that you can dance in anything. I suspect it comes down to one's level of skill. Today he happened to be dancing in sandals and I did not notice any difference in his level of performance.

[Slow Foxtrot]

I talked this over today with my dance teacher after our lesson. His take on it is that you can dance in anything. I suspect it comes down to one's level of skill. Today he happened to be dancing in sandals and I did not notice any difference in his level of performance.

 

Well, good luck to your dance teacher if he enjoys dancing in sandals but I hope he doesn't recommend it to his pupils. Nothing to do with 'one's level of skill' but everything to do with ballroom safety, practicality and common sense.

[fantasy51]

Well, good luck to your dance teacher if he enjoys dancing in sandals but I hope he doesn't recommend it to his pupils. Nothing to do with 'one's level of skill' but everything to do with ballroom safety, practicality and common sense.

 

Also at times to do with allowing one's feet to recover from tight dance shoes worn for 13 hours of teaching that includes almost continuous dancing. :D

[Dancer Bob]

Can't say I've ever heard a Paso Doble on Cunard, when the QRO does play something recognisable as dance music it's likely to be a Quickstep- that's the dance I'm thinking of. So for the people who say it's just fine, taking something pretty basic like Quarter Turn To Right- do you expect the man to keep track of the lady's hem and to restrict her movement, or for the Lady, in which case how does she indicate her shorter step to the man? Done properly, American Smooth technique isn't a lot different from International except for the arm-waving, but it doesn't include Quickstep. If by "social" Mr Branst means, just ignore the band- around here ignoring what's being played is an insult one step removed from giving them the finger and saying, You incompetent idiots. If the QRO isn't doing anything useful , why are they there? If it's deemed to be Formal Night, shouldn't the music be formal too?

[fantasy51]

I've seen a paso doble a few times, but not often. Perhaps it was specially asked for. Generally only one or two people get up to dance it. It's always fun to watch.

[BobBranst]

Can't say I've ever heard a Paso Doble on Cunard, when the QRO does play something recognisable as dance music it's likely to be a Quickstep- that's the dance I'm thinking of. So for the people who say it's just fine, taking something pretty basic like Quarter Turn To Right- do you expect the man to keep track of the lady's hem and to restrict her movement, or for the Lady, in which case how does she indicate her shorter step to the man? Done properly, American Smooth technique isn't a lot different from International except for the arm-waving, but it doesn't include Quickstep. If by "social" Mr Branst means, just ignore the band- around here ignoring what's being played is an insult one step removed from giving them the finger and saying, You incompetent idiots. If the QRO isn't doing anything useful , why are they there? If it's deemed to be Formal Night, shouldn't the music be formal too?

OK Dancer Bob, here we go once again. You have been complaining about the Queens Room Orchestra for years now and have repeatedly proclaimed that you will never again step foot on the QM2 because of what you see as terrible, undanceable dance music being played by the orchestra in the QR. What has it been - 3 years? Strange that everytime I take a voyage on the QM2, the dance floor is usually full of dancers seemingly enjoying themselves on formal nights. I guess we can only assume that no one else can possibly know anything about either dancing or quality dance music since they do not appear to agree with your particular assessment.

[Q-step]

I have been on T/As where the QRO was great and ones where the QRO was (to be charitable) mediocre. The number of people out dancing on the floor was the same. It doesn't seem to make a difference, sad to say.

As for the level of enjoyment, I can only say that we are happier when they play on tempo. I can't speak for the others.

[fantasy51]

It doesn't seem to make a difference, sad to say.

 

I think that shows how versatile all the dancers are. We CAN adapt. (Dancers unite! :D)

 

However, I know that the good dancers are happier when the music is on tempo. The beginner dancers often just think it is their own lack of skill causing problems, and don't realise that a changing tempo makes a difference.

[tangoll]

For all this talk about males and their jackets, on or off, let me relate this tale from a QE cruise in March 2015, Hong Kong to Singapore. One Japanese lady came up to me in the QR one evening during the dancing, and asked me to explain why some other Japanese lady got so many dances from the Gentlemen Hosts, while others, like her, rarely get asked to dance. Because I speak Japanese and they speak no English, they were basically in their roundabout way asking me to intercede with the GH's (who all speak only English) and request that the GH's spread their "dancing talents" (Dancer Bob will appreciate the attempt at humour here) more equitably.

 

So, I sidle up to the GH's during one of the band recess periods, and tell the GH's of the request made by the Japanese ladies, and that the GH's should not, from the herd waiting around the QR, select only the filly but should select also the less young and those with little or no dance skill. Well, the GH's got their ire up, and told me that quite a number of the Japanese ladies had apparently not taken their daily ofuro (Japanese style bathing practice) for the day, and few seem to use underarm deodorant, shave their armpits, or use perfume to mask the body's various odours. It's true, I think, that most Japanese tend to take their ofuro just before bedtime, but on a cruise ship, who knows?

 

Anyway, I did not go around to the other Japanese ladies to verify the GH's claims about the body odours. So though I am not a GH, I gallantly danced one or two cha chas or rumbas with the other ladies, but no dances where I have to hold them tight to me.

Edited July 25, 2015 by tangoll
minor changes

[fantasy51]

A very important observation, Tangoll.

 

I am often a few minutes late to the 7.45 dancing session because I dash back to my room after dinner to clean my teeth. I wouldn't rush to do this at home but I think it's important when you are dancing. However, I often wish that the Dance Hosts would do the same!

[Q-step]

I tend to make friends with the Dance Hosts. I've done volunteer DH work from time-to-time at charity events in the area. And I sometimes go (with Mrs. Q's permission of course) to our local ballroom or swing dances solo as they usually need more leaders. So being a DH on the QM2 would not be a stretch.

 

While most say it's fun, they get to travel, they get to escort women on shore excursions, over the years I find that each group of DHs has similar complaints.

(1) Hygiene is sometimes not the best;

(2) Some ladies hang on with all their weight;

(3) people will complain to the Entertainment Director if they start to favor the better dancers;

 

When I ask if they'd do it again, it's about 50/50. And there are no maybes. It's either 100% yes or 100% no. No one is on the fence.

As a side note, I've noticed that most yes's are from British men, most no's from Americans. (My sample size is three T/A crossings.)

Edited July 25, 2015 by Q-step

[Slow Foxtrot]

....Well, the GH's ( Gentlemen Hosts) got their ire up, and told me that quite a number of the Japanese ladies had apparently not taken their daily ofuro (Japanese style bathing practice) for the day, and few seem to use underarm deodorant, shave their armpits, or use perfume to mask the body's various odours. It's true, I think, that most Japanese tend to take their ofuro just before bedtime, but on a cruise ship, who knows?

 

Anyway, I did not go around to the other Japanese ladies to verify the GH's claims about the body odours. So though I am not a GH, I gallantly danced one or two cha chas or rumbas with the other ladies, but no dances where I have to hold them tight to me.

 

Ho, Ho, Ho !! It's probably as well that most Japanese women don't read Cruise Critic (assuming they could understand the English language) otherwise there would surely be a predictable response to Tangoll's experience :)

And maybe some ladies are not too keen on dancing with gentlemen who have danced for several hours in a heavy tuxedo or dinner suit !!

Edited July 27, 2015 by Slow Foxtrot

[fantasy51]

And maybe some ladies are not too keen on dancing with gentlemen who have danced for several hours in a heavy tuxedo or dinner suit !!

 

I haven't noticed any increase in odour by the end of the evening. I'm more aware of odour that is there at the start - the smell of red wine on the breath, and occasionally a smell that indicates the need to spend a fortune in dental work or to floss or to use mouthwash.

[Slow Foxtrot]

.... I'm more aware of odour that is there at the start - the smell of red wine on the breath, and occasionally a smell that indicates the need to spend a fortune in dental work or to floss or to use mouthwash.

 

Many more comments like this and Cunard will be posting Public Health Warnings in the Queens Room!

Edited July 27, 2015 by Slow Foxtrot

[lido deck larry]

Is it really 2015 😂

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Haha!! I was just thinking that. The Carnival board would love this discussion. Forget about dancing and jackets, the debate over there is about whether people should wear shorts on "elegant night" hahaha

 

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

[tangoll]

Ho, Ho, Ho !! It's probably as well that most Japanese women don't read Cruise Critic (assuming they could understand the English language) otherwise there would surely be a predictable response to Tangoll's experience :)

 

Slow Foxy, not your usual keen reading of what's actually written. It's the GHs' claiming about the odours of the Japanese ladies; my not holding them tight is a preventive measure to avoid discovering whether the GHs' claims are true. I find some Japanese women have quite unique and wonderful fragrances, and have maintained contact with a few, both over the wires as well as in person, post cruise. The odours of Asian women are quite different than for caucasian women -- must be due to diet, genetics, hygiene and choice of perfumes. Anyone care to comment on this point? Need to hear from Dancer Bob, since he claims often that many women sag their weight on him while dancing, and so he must notice the odours of many of those women dancers.

Edited July 28, 2015 by tangoll

[Lakesregion]

Having had the "pleasure" (not really) of being a dance host on a Cunard ship, I found in a short 16 day sailing enough material for at least one book on psychological factors attributable to many (not all mind you) of the ladies that arrive in the Queens Room a full hour before the dancing begins in order to obtain a prime floor side seat which they do not willing cede to anyone. Then the hosts are required to dance with these ladies every dance and chat them up between numbers. Failure to do so results in being reported to the social director who on occasion can be the wicked witch from the west. As to odors I would say no particular ethnicity has a corner on offense.

 

My stint was many years ago and to this date the experience was the worst cruise I have taken. Between having to attend a morning single's meet and greet every day, assisting with the noon dance class, doing a tea dance twice a week and being on the dance floor from 7:30 - midnight every night and then not being allowed to dine in the main dining rooms but having to pay upward of $50 per day for a bare bones inside cabin shared with another dance host. It is a wonder that they can get anyone to do the job.

 

But then that is my experience. I know of many other hosts who love the job and keep returning numerous times every year. Some in the hopes of getting a "bought and paid for" situation whereby a wealthy solo lady passenger just happens to fall in love and they live happily ever after on her money.

[Seago2]

Haha!! I was just thinking that. The Carnival board would love this discussion. Forget about dancing and jackets, the debate over there is about whether people should wear shorts on "elegant night" hahaha

 

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

 

 

Don't worry, we're here watching and monitoring the fascinating discussion. Thankfully I'm not Japanese.

[fantasy51]

Hi Lakesregion. Very interesting to hear things from your point of view.

 

On occasion I have been one of those ladies in the front row seats (AKA Barracuda Alley), though I did not expect all the attention that you detail. I have found on some cruises that the Dance Hosts don't notice single women who sit elsewhere. I sat down near the band once and did not get asked to dance for the whole session. They had been dancing right past me but did not see me. They only scanned the front rows at the top of the ballroom. In desperation for the rest of that cruise I took my iPod to the ballroom with me and claimed a good seat between the early dance session and the late one. :D

 

On my last cruise (last leg of the world cruise), I was generally in the second row back and did not get terribly many dances. One of the Dance Hosts said that they had trouble getting past the ladies in the front row. :eek:

[Slow Foxtrot]

.....I have found on some cruises that the Dance Hosts don't notice single women who sit elsewhere. I sat down near the band once and did not get asked to dance for the whole session. They had been dancing right past me but did not see me. They only scanned the front rows at the top of the ballroom. In desperation for the rest of that cruise I took my iPod to the ballroom with me and claimed a good seat between the early dance session and the late one. :D

 

On my last cruise (last leg of the world cruise), I was generally in the second row back and did not get terribly many dances. One of the Dance Hosts said that they had trouble getting past the ladies in the front row. :eek:

 

Oddly enough, on one Cunard cruise one of the Dance Hosts approached me to ask permission if he could have the next dance with my wife ( a very accomplished dancer). Obviously no problem but as the floor was fairly busy at the time I did wonder if this was acceptable practice bearing in mind that there were a number of single ladies presumably without a partner. Anyone know what exact instructions the Dance Hosts are given?

 

As an afterthought, as the western world seems to be besotted by gender-equality and political correctness, should Cunard provide lady Dance Hosts to satisfy the requirements of single gentlemen who do not have a dance partner? An interesting thought!

[Lakesregion]

Oddly enough, on one Cunard cruise one of the Dance Hosts approached me to ask permission if he could have the next dance with my wife ( a very accomplished dancer). Obviously no problem but as the floor was fairly busy at the time I did wonder if this was acceptable practice bearing in mind that there were a number of single ladies presumably without a partner. Anyone know what exact instructions the Dance Hosts are given?

 

As an afterthought, as the western world seems to be besotted by gender-equality and political correctness, should Cunard provide lady Dance Hosts to satisfy the requirements of single gentlemen who do not have a dance partner? An interesting thought!

 

If I may - The instructions re "attached" ladies are to tred very carefully as mates can be overly protective or sensitive and it is really the unattached lady that are to be accommodated. During my singular time on board as a dance host I did approach a couple and did ask the spouse if I might have a dance with his lady. I did this because the music was right in my wheel house of 50's R&R and the lady was visibly feeling the music and her husband was not so I thought why not have two people enjoy the dance instead of three being miserable at that moment. All worked out well.

[Bell Boy]

Oddly enough, on one Cunard cruise one of the Dance Hosts approached me to ask permission if he could have the next dance with my wife ( a very accomplished dancer). Obviously no problem but as the floor was fairly busy at the time I did wonder if this was acceptable practice bearing in mind that there were a number of single ladies presumably without a partner. Anyone know what exact instructions the Dance Hosts are given?

 

As an afterthought, as the western world seems to be besotted by gender-equality and political correctness, should Cunard provide lady Dance Hosts to satisfy the requirements of single gentlemen who do not have a dance partner? An interesting thought!

 

We do have Lady Dance Hosts occasionally on Cunard QM2 . I've been on two voyages where there have been female dance hosts ( August 2014) and the other week on the WB 175 celebration transatlantic . ;)