Help (!) with 9 days in French and Italian Riviera

[Millenia98]

I like to do as much as possible in a short time, and I like to move and see everything!

 

I have a rough plan to do:

 

1 night and day in Montpellier

2 nights in Provence/Marseille

2 nights in Nice Cannes St Tropez

3 nights in Genoa, Liguria region- Cinque Terre, La Spezia

 

Are these good hubs for apartment renting- meaning- Montpellier, Marseille, Nice and Liguria? We'll be driving throughout, walking around the towns, going to the beaches, pools, people watching, just soaking up the energy.

 

Any feedback is welcome. Thanks.

[Hlitner]

We have a substantial amount of experience with long European driving trips where we love to use the "hub" concept. But we would never consider a "hub" for anything less than 3 nights....and forty+ years of extensive travel has taught us that when we want to explore an area from a hub and apartment...1 week is ideal. The problem with moving from place to place is that too much time is lost checking in and out of hotels/apartments, packing/unpacking, getting from Point A to Point B, and just driving around with luggage and valuables locked in our car (something we try hard to minimize in Europe).

 

As to Hubs, we have rented apartments in smaller towns (such as St Remy de Provence) and larger cities (i.e. Avignon, Paris, etc). Many of the best apartment deals are for 1 week rentals and we have never been bored spending a week in a good area. In France we absolutely loved staying right in the walled part of Avignon as a hub (have done that twice) as we had many dining venues within walking distance. Although we always have a car on these type trips, I prefer to walk (or even taxi) to our evening dining venue so I can freely enjoy wine (we are Oenophiles) without having to drive after dinner.

 

We would suggest eliminating Marseille as a hub and using a city such as Avignon or Aix en Provence....depending on where you want to drive during the day. For the French Riviera we prefer Nice (if you want a city) and would consider a village like St Paul de Vence if you are looking for more of a country setting. Luguria is tough because of the all the mountains and tunnels. We are not big fans of Genoa and honestly cannot see ourselves spending more than 3 nights in Liguria (although we met a happy traveler who rents an apartment for 1 week (every year) in Riomaggiore). La Spezia might be a decent hub (we have never stayed in this small city). But DW and I tend to choose Provence (over Liguria) as a Hub where we have used both Florence (lots of apartments and for shorter stays the Hotel David has free parking and is a good option) and the area around S. Gimignano. We once spent a week just outside Siena and were not nearly as happy as when we are closer to Florence.

 

But the key to using a Hub concept is having a rental (or leased) car. Depending on public transit to explore any of these areas is not a good option. One can certainly use tours every day, but we are not big fans of being stuck in large groups and find that most tours spend too much time in places we do not like and not enough time in places we love. So with a car we love the freedom of being able to go where we want, when we want, by ourselves. And we do not have to waste lots of time waiting for the slowest person, the next bus or train, etc.

 

Two places we absolutely do not want a car are in Rome and Paris....but otherwise have found a car the most convenient and efficient form of transportation to truly see a region.

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

Forgot to mention another important facet of planning which are the days of the week! All days are not equal so, in order to avoid disappointment, you need to give it consideration. For example, on CC we have often touted the huge Sunday market Isle sur la Sorque! So when we are planning to be in that part of Provence we try to make sure we include a Sunday (and pray for good weather). In Italy, Sundays and Mondays (especially the first half of the day) can be dreadful for a tourist...depending on where you are located. So if you are planning on visiting museums or markets (we love the outdoor markets in France) make sure to check for the active days (and times) and plan accordingly.

 

Another important factor has to do with rental or leased cars. One-way drops in a different country can prove to be very expensive or sometimes not even possible. So on our many driving trips we often think in terms of a somewhat circular route that allows us to begin and end in the same country (one way drops within a country are less of an issue).

 

Hank

Edited March 7, 2016 by Hlitner

[CruiserBruce]

What time of the year? Where are you flying in and out of?

 

For the Italy portion, I would give thought to train, particularly into Cinque Terre.

 

Hard to pass up spending a couple of nights in Cinque Terre.

[Millenia98]

What time of the year? Where are you flying in and out of?

 

For the Italy portion, I would give thought to train, particularly into Cinque Terre.

 

Hard to pass up spending a couple of nights in Cinque Terre.

Summer. We don't mind crowds. Why train rather than driving? We'll already be driving through from the French side. But we're not glued to one way or another.

[CruiserBruce]

Train- particularly in the Cinque Terre, because you can only drive into part of one town, and then park. You will be training, taking a ferry, or walking through out the Cinque Terre, so you will be just paying for a car you won't use for the period of time you are in the Cinque Terre.

 

We did a 15 day Italy only land trip in 2014, using trains only, with just carry ons. One of our best Europe trips ever. Trains are very efficient in Europe. Best if you can travel light, if possible, but not required. We have also driven through much of Europe, and like doing that as well.

 

Flying home from Milan is a relatively inexpensive flight, usually.

Edited March 7, 2016 by CruiserBruce

[Hlitner]

CruiseBruce brings up a terrific issue which is trains vs cars. While we think trains are often a terrific option to get from Point A to Point B (assuming they both have train service and decent service). But just like in the US, trains do not go everywhere :). They are fine for cities and we would always use the train if we were simply going from London to Paris. But if you want to see Liguria, Tuscany, or even one of the rivieras, a train is not very useful. For example, you can easily use a train to get from Avignon to Nice, but then what if you want to visit Eze Village, St Paul de Vence, etc. You can certainly use local buses, but you will often find that you spend several hours a day just waiting for buses, making connections, or having to vary your itinerary just to fit a bus schedule. And lets assume you take a train to Florence (an absolutely wonderful city) and then decide you want to go to explore the Chianti wine area along the S222 route, then perhaps stop at San Gimignano for a couple of hours and then perhaps stop at Colle val d'Elsa for an hour to see the town. Try doing that with a train or even buses and you are in for a rude awakening.

 

So to sum up, if you want to simply visit cities then trains (and sometimes air) are often the best options. But if you truly want to see part of country outside the major cities, then a car is the best option.

 

As to Cinque Terre, we do agree with CruiserBruce that once at a village the best means of transport is the local train and/or the small ferry boats. However, the train does not run very often (about once an hour) and if there is a large cruise ship in La Spezia...good luck even getting on a train. But lets assume one decides to stay in Lucca (as a hub) and go to Cinque Terre for the day. The train takes about 1:40 min each way (it varies) and would cost a couple about 38€ round trip.. With a car you can make the drive in about 50 minutes, so instead of spending about 4 hours of your day dealing with trains the car only takes about 2 hours of your day. And when you are playing "tourist" those extra 2 hours are pretty important. And what if you decide to stay at a B&B outside a town, or perhaps an Agritourismo (these places can be very interesting). You cannot do it without a car. And what if you later decide you want to visit the cute village of Bagni di Lucca? And we could fill volumes with the cute villages (not to mention the countryside) throughout Italy and France that cannot be reached by any way except a vehicle.

 

We should also point out that rental cars are not for everyone. If you are over 70 it can be difficult to even rent a car. And in Europe it is very helpful (and a lot less expensive) if you can drive a stick shift. But consider the port of Livorno. With a rental car (delivered pier side) one can be off the ship and on their way by 8. Without a car your first problem is simply getting out of the port! If we want to go to Cinque Terre we would be parked in Riomaggiore by 9:30! Or perhaps we will go to Volterra, San Gimignano and a couple of nearby small villages...all of which can easily be done with a car (or a more expensive private tour). But a train would be totally worthless for this kind of itinerary.

 

Hank

Edited March 7, 2016 by Hlitner

[John Bull]

Just a thought..........

 

Can I suggest you don't spend all your time on the coast, especially if you enjoy relaxed & scenic driving.

 

Perhaps up through the hills of Provence to Gap & Geneva, then across and up into the Swiss Alps via Interlaken & Lucerne before turning south through the Italian Alps to Lake Maggiore, & pick up the Med coast again at Genoa.

In the Alps the trucks & through traffic use the excellent modern motorways & tunnels, meaning that the older mountain roads & passes through spectacular scenery are virtually traffic-free - only used by tourists & a few locals.

On the slow & scenic minor roads that's about 15 hours of driving, so allowing for exploration as well that'd need about four days. Or could be trimmed to two or three days as an out-and-back from Genoa, again keeping mainly to slow & scenic roads.

 

Like I said, just a thought.

 

JB :)