Interesting article about the Haven

[cruisemainiac]

I think we'll all view the article differently than others who do not cruise or cruise once very infrequently. To a person working 3 jobs to keep their family afloat, a week in the Haven would be the royal treatment as written in the article. There are many (far too many) people out there who cannot afford to go on vacation at all, let alone a cruise.

 

If you're on CC, you cruise frequently enough to want to keep up with cruise news and chat about it, you're rich enough to travel once every couple of years or more, so we're viewing it with those eyes.

 

I call a lot of it BS in the article, but I can see how it would look from the outside.

 

I also remember my first Carnival cruise in Grade 12, and we were able to have quick look into a suite as it was being cleaned and thought you'd have to be a millionaire to be able to afford that! We were 4 to an inside and thought it was the best vacation ever.

 

Keep in mind the article was from the NY Times. I find it interesting that the article insults their prime demographic.

[rose102798]

When all is said and done, those who go for the Haven or other exclusive areas on other mass market lines are still just getting a penthouse on top of the ghetto low income housing.

 

Good for those who need that validation that they are "special," but laughable to those with self esteem.

 

For those who want to travel with others of their upper socio-economic background, there are other cruise lines where they can find that and have an entire ship to roam around in and not just a special "enclave" behind locked doors.

 

All in all, however, this is a slick marketing gimmick. These special areas are usually on the highest decks and all the forward or aft. These are the sections of the ships that for years were either open decks or had other public areas on them for the simple reason they were the area where the most movement would be felt on the ship and, therefore, unsuitable for passenger accommodations.

 

While the use of stabilizers can somewhat control roll but does nothing for pitch or yawl, many feel that ship movement is a thing of the past. That naivete plus the lure of "special" treatment has the gullible paying more for the worst cabin locations on a ship. Their mistake is realized when the top heavy cruise ship hits rough weather.

 

The passengers in the low and amidships cabins are enjoying the cruise while those in the upper cabins are barfing into the toilet.

 

 

Bahahahahahahahahaha!! I hope this was a joke.

[Larlin]

When all is said and done, those who go for the Haven or other exclusive areas on other mass market lines are still just getting a penthouse on top of the ghetto low income housing.

 

Good for those who need that validation that they are "special," but laughable to those with self esteem.

 

For those who want to travel with others of their upper socio-economic background, there are other cruise lines where they can find that and have an entire ship to roam around in and not just a special "enclave" behind locked doors.

 

All in all, however, this is a slick marketing gimmick. These special areas are usually on the highest decks and all the forward or aft. These are the sections of the ships that for years were either open decks or had other public areas on them for the simple reason they were the area where the most movement would be felt on the ship and, therefore, unsuitable for passenger accommodations.

 

While the use of stabilizers can somewhat control roll but does nothing for pitch or yawl, many feel that ship movement is a thing of the past. That naivete plus the lure of "special" treatment has the gullible paying more for the worst cabin locations on a ship. Their mistake is realized when the top heavy cruise ship hits rough weather.

 

The passengers in the low and amidships cabins are enjoying the cruise while those in the upper cabins are barfing into the toilet.

 

I have so much to say, but I must ask... Do you really think that you are sailing in "the ghetto low income housing"? Because, I think I would find another type of vacation if I were you.

[navybankerteacher]

What the article did not really get into was the undeniable fact that the food, service and accommodations available to the majority who pay "regular" fares have been continually downgraded as the bells and whistles offered to the prime passengers have been enhanced. The cruise industry, along with the airlines, are providing vivid evidence of the return of stratification to American society - after roughly a century of leveling which began with Teddy Roosevelt's fair deal days just over a hundred years ago.

[rose102798]

Ok so now I am looking forward to dining in the Haven Restaurant with the Clintons and the Clooney's, for a lot less than the +$300K to eat dinner with them at George's house.

[pokerpro5]

What the article did not really get into was the undeniable fact that the food, service and accommodations available to the majority who pay "regular" fares have been continually downgraded as the bells and whistles offered to the prime passengers have been enhanced. The cruise industry, along with the airlines, are providing vivid evidence of the return of stratification to American society - after roughly a century of leveling which began with Teddy Roosevelt's fair deal days just over a hundred years ago.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

 

Why should NCL worry about any of this?

 

If they can sell luxury rooms at a higher price because they come with extra privacy and services, why shouldn't they? They should refuse high-minded socialist concept of making everyone equal?

 

Give me a break.

 

I am the first to call out NCL when they do something stupid or unfair, or when someone doesn't get what they paid for, and NCL won't make them whole.

 

But I'll never criticize a business for selling a luxury product or adjusting their pricing or offerings to fit the market.

[pieshops]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

 

Why should NCL worry about any of this?

 

If they can sell luxury rooms at a higher price because they come with extra privacy and services, why shouldn't they? They should refuse high-minded socialist concept of making everyone equal?

 

Give me a break.

 

I am the first to call out NCL when they do something stupid or unfair, or when someone doesn't get what they paid for, and NCL won't make them whole.

 

But I'll never criticize a business for selling a luxury product or adjusting their pricing or offerings to fit the market.

 

I remember back in Hotel and Restaurant School and having a teacher ask us what is the correct price for selling a piece of prime rib on the menu, everyone came up with formulas such as labor cost, food cost, overhead, etc all factored in and I was the only one who got the correct answer which was as much as you can get away with. This is NCL's model for the Haven and Suites which We generally stay in. This is the perfect answer. If they were not getting away with it and selling them the product would either be discontinued or prices reduced.

 

We are sailing on the Star this December for a 14 day Asia cruise. There is no Haven on the star but the highest suite the 3 bedroom is going for 50,000 dollars for 2 people and is unsold, while most other suite categories are sold out. Makes you wonder how much that will drop of not sold

[renata102]

I know you're not the one who I replied to, but this proves my point. People who are upper middle class and wealthy have a skewed view on where they really fall. Hell, even your income isn't indicative of where you cruise. For example, I could afford the Haven the same way I could afford a bigger house, newer car, etc, but something else would have to give. Lots of folks out there living high on the hog who can't rub two nickels together.

 

I too realistically may afford the haven suite but I take several vacations a year.

 

The 10 day Gem cruise we had is not my " real vacation" for the year. So we had 4 of us in an ocean view cabin. We did it because we have 3 weeks planned in the summer (Italy and Poland. Staying with family and Airbnb flats and family hostels)

[Diane123boys]

We are among the "not "rich cruisers going in a Haven for the next trip. My thoughts on choosing this over a balcony room are primarily the time of year- We are going in August to Bermuda. The ship will be PACKED so we decided to get a spa Haven room , we are on the same deck as anyone else but we have access to the Haven and all that comes with having a suite in the Haven. Everyone chooses their rooms for many reasons , I dont plan on putting on "airs " but I will certainly enjoy my trip !

[rzivkovic]

After reading this article for the second time, I have come to realize how absurd the writer and paper are. Let's start with the fact that this article is published in a magazine that lives off of the real estate, style, and food sections. These only highlight runway designer items and 5 star cuisine. There are no Applebee's ads or Target clothing. The real estate section has not one listing under $1 million dollars, yet they believe they have moral authority to judge everyday Americans by what type of room they take when they cruise. Guess what NYT the 1,2,3 or even 4%ers don't cruise on Norwegian Cruise Lines. The wealthy have private yachts to cruise to St Bart's on. Just absurd!!!

[DMH15]

I am not the one that posted.

 

 

 

I won't divulge my income but I though it was middle class , but my accountant told us we are considered "upper middle class". I also live in northern NJ where cost of living is high, so to me I feel middle class. We have two school age kids

 

 

 

 

 

Below $20,000 = in poverty

 

Below $30,000 = working poor

 

$30,000 - $50,000 = working class

 

$50,000 - $75,000 = lower middle class

 

$75,000 - $100,000 = middle class

 

$100,000 - $250,000 = upper middle class

 

$250,000 and above = wealthy

 

 

 

In NJ

 

Below $30,000 = in poverty

 

Below $40,000 = Working poor

 

$40,000 - $55,000 = working class

 

$55,000 - $85,000 = lower middle class

 

$85,000 - $125,000 = middle class

 

$125,000 - $300,000 = upper middle class

 

$300,000 and above = wealthy

 

 

 

 

 

When we first started cruising we were in the lower middle class some 15 years ago.

 

 

Is this family income? Or per person income? I am divorced with no kids so of course I have more discretionary income than someone who is feeding, clothing and insuring multiples in a household. I know families whose earnings exceed mine who are amazed at my multiple vacations a year in suites.

[renata102]

After reading this article for the second time, I have come to realize how absurd the writer and paper are. Let's start with the fact that this article is published in a magazine that lives off of the real estate, style, and food sections. These only highlight runway designer items and 5 star cuisine. There are no Applebee's ads or Target clothing. The real estate section has not one listing under $1 million dollars, yet they believe they have moral authority to judge everyday Americans by what type of room they take when they cruise. Guess what NYT the 1,2,3 or even 4%ers don't cruise on Norwegian Cruise Lines. The wealthy have private yachts to cruise to St Bart's on. Just absurd!!!

 

No. This was front page of the nytimes NEWSPAPER not the magazine or travel section As in FRINT PAGE NEWS

 

I know. I have the paper (nytimes) delivered every day in all there are 1.1 million print-and-digital subscribers)

[renata102]

Is this family income? Or per person income? I am divorced with no kids so of course I have more discretionary income than someone who is feeding, clothing and insuring multiples in a household. I know families whose earnings exceed mine who are amazed at my multiple vacations a year in suites.

 

Married with 2 dependents

[rzivkovic]

No. This was front page of the nytimes NEWSPAPER not the magazine or travel section As in FRINT PAGE NEWS

 

 

 

I know. I have the paper (nytimes) delivered every day in all there are 1.1 million print-and-digital subscribers)

 

 

That makes it even more sad...

How is this news of any sort? The world is burning and the NYT is playing its fiddle.

Sad :(

[navybankerteacher]

That makes it even more sad...

How is this news of any sort? The world is burning and the NYT is playing its fiddle.

Sad :(

 

If you hadn't noticed some time ago - the N Y Times ceased being a legitimate news journal some time ago - and is now little more than a left-of-center multi-section political pamphlet - with a self-contradictory penchant for accepting ads for ultra high-end consumer gratifications.

[mrs and mrs]

We had never seen inside a suite until our last cruise,and the steward caught us lurking near the doorway,so we scurried away like naughty schoolgirls,laughing our heads off.This time we have booked our usual interior, right by a suite,just so we can maybe get a glimpse of the lifestyles of the rich and famous.We have read that some dismiss their canapé carrying butler,to pass on their fair to the peasants.:eek::eek:

[txagfan]

I too realistically may afford the haven suite but I take several vacations a year.

 

 

 

The 10 day Gem cruise we had is not my " real vacation" for the year. So we had 4 of us in an ocean view cabin. We did it because we have 3 weeks planned in the summer (Italy and Poland. Staying with family and Airbnb flats and family hostels)

 

 

 

I only spent a few days in Kraków, but I loved it. Beautiful city and many great side trips. Definitely go to the salt mines and auschwitz, incredible history.

[renata102]

I only spent a few days in Kraków, but I loved it. Beautiful city and many great side trips. Definitely go to the salt mines and auschwitz, incredible history.

 

I go to Poland every few years (plus I lived there as kid - I am american by default, born here but my parents went back to Poland with me , but then decided to come back to America).

 

We have spent weeks at a time in Poland (including my kids) the last few years (more when I was a kid, I would spend months at a time. ). My favorite place is krakow. We always go to the salt mines. Incredible. I rarely re visit the same place. But I always have to go to krakow! I love wawel castle. The history there is amazing. One of da vinci's painting hangs there "lady with an ermine". My then 9 year old son said he liked lady with the ermine better then the Mona Lisa (we went to paris after krakow last time, so he got to see two of his paintings in different countries ). Everytime I visit Poland it's with the kids and they were to young the last time to visit the death camps.

Edited April 25, 2016 by renata102

[Leavethekidswithmom]

I am not the one that posted.

 

 

 

I won't divulge my income but I though it was middle class , but my accountant told us we are considered "upper middle class". I also live in northern NJ where cost of living is high, so to me I feel middle class. We have two school age kids

 

 

 

 

 

Below $20,000 = in poverty

 

Below $30,000 = working poor

 

$30,000 - $50,000 = working class

 

$50,000 - $75,000 = lower middle class

 

$75,000 - $100,000 = middle class

 

$100,000 - $250,000 = upper middle class

 

$250,000 and above = wealthy

 

 

 

In NJ

 

Below $30,000 = in poverty

 

Below $40,000 = Working poor

 

$40,000 - $55,000 = working class

 

$55,000 - $85,000 = lower middle class

 

$85,000 - $125,000 = middle class

 

$125,000 - $300,000 = upper middle class

 

$300,000 and above = wealthy

 

 

 

 

 

When we first started cruising we were in the lower middle class some 15 years ago.

 

 

That's a lot of hot air coming from someone who must remove the DSC [emoji57]

[fatherlu]

If one looks at modern cruising in general from a 2/3 world perspective, everyone on a cruise is enjoying a fairly rich environment. Unless one wants to live in an ultra socialist type of society, a person shouldn't be begrudged by how they spend their hard earned money. It's the nature of a free society and working hard to better oneself and one's family (in the US, it's often called the American dream). Why work to better oneself and one's family if we can't live a better lifestyle than when we started?

 

With that said and I may get flak for this--but historically, the class designation is more than just having or spending money. There are a number of blue collar and general service businesses that can make just as much or more than the US Supreme Court justices but it doesn't mean that having or spending money puts a person in the same social class.

[kathybelcher2433]

I go to Poland every few years (plus I lived there as kid - I am american by default, born here but my parents went back to Poland with me , but then decided to come back to America).

 

We have spent weeks at a time in Poland (including my kids) the last few years (more when I was a kid, I would spend months at a time. ). My favorite place is krakow. We always go to the salt mines. Incredible. I rarely re visit the same place. But I always have to go to krakow! I love wawel castle. The history there is amazing. One of da vinci's painting hangs there "lady with an ermine". My then 9 year old son said he liked lady with the ermine better then the Mona Lisa (we went to paris after krakow last time, so he got to see two of his paintings in different countries ). Everytime I visit Poland it's with the kids and they were to young the last time to visit the death camps.

 

 

Fascinating. But what does this have to do with The Haven article?

[Crusin6]

I only spent a few days in Kraków, but I loved it. Beautiful city and many great side trips. Definitely go to the salt mines and auschwitz, incredible history.

 

 

My dd just came back from a study abroad in Kraków and auschwitz

 

 

She loved Kraków and was very moved by auschwitz

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[DMH15]

Married with 2 dependents

 

 

Thank you.

[AndyCapn]

On our last cruise on the Breakaway, we boarded in group 11. As we were walking up the gangway, a lady at the back was trying to get people to move aside saying "Haven. Haven! Are you in Haven? I'm in Haven. Could you move, I'm in Haven." I swear she said "Haven" about 20 times in the 60 seconds it took to board.

 

But that's the only time in our two cruises we've had any interaction with an entitled Haven guest. Most are like everyone else and just looking to have a great vacation, not flaunting their status.

[renata102]

Fascinating. But what does this have to do with The Haven article?

 

I was responding to someone