I’m Terrified!!!

[dogladyjw]

I fell in love with cruising on the ms Statendam (our first cruise and our 25th Anniversary). It was a moderate size ship and it was quiet and dignified. You could come back from a long day on shore and find a nice place to relax without excessive noise and bustle. On sea days you could get a glass of wine and contemplate the sea and life and not be overrun by glitz. Now Holland America has these mega ships named after the 4 points of the compass and I understand they are patterned after the Carnival ships, gaudy and lots of flashing lights. When you go to a dance area you have to scream at your partner to be heard over the music and the flashing lights are sure to give one of you a migraine before the night is over! Even in the staterooms. you had better bring a sleep mask because the colors of the decor will shout at you and keep you awake in the dead of night. If I wanted that much excitement, I would take an adventure tour shore excursion. Where oh where can I get the truth about these new “dam” ships? Of course, from Cruise Critics where as Chesterh says their cruise is ruined if the iced tea is not available from 3:30 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. They will tell me like it is. I pray I have not lost the peace of the Holland American ambiance in their search for younger and family pax. Don’t they know the largest growing group is the baby boomers, the 50 and 60 year olds? We don’t need loud music and strobe lights!

[gooselace]

I'm no expert, having been on only one of the new "dam" ships, the Westerdam. But I had good memories of the old-line ships, the earlier Rotterdam, even the Cunard line. I certainly didn't find anything in the decor of the Westerdam to keep me awake at night, and the only flahing lights I remember was in the disco area (don't recall what it was called) where I would expect it. Maybe there were some in the casino, but I didn't go there. There were plenty of quiet lounges and nooks, plus the library. I also enjoyed the internet room. I can't wait to go on another HAL ship -- am checking out the Oosterdam for a Mexican coastal trip right now. To me, one of the advantage of the larger ships is that you cn find nearly any kind of place you'd like.

[TedC]

We've been on all three Vista ships and some of the smaller HAL ships and enjoyed them all.

 

But no way do we consider the Vista ships "mega ships." Yes, they're larger than the other HAL ships and naturally carry more passengers. But with 1848 passengers, if there are two in every cabin, that figure seems relatively small compared to real "mega ships" - those carrying 2500 to more than 3000 passengers.

 

And the Vista ships carry fewer pasengers than many other ships of the same size on other mass-market lines. Vista's also have a favorable passenger to space ratio.

 

I don't recall ever seeing much, if any, "glitz" on any of the HAL ships we've been on. We haven't been in the disco, however, so perhaps we missed it.

 

HAL offers us a good selection of ships of various sizes. The Prinsendam carries just under 800 and the R and S ships carry a few hundred more.

 

The "big" question now is how big will the next generation of HAL ships be.

[Esme]

We were on the Westerdam last year and other than the Disco I didn't see any flashing lights. We were in the Casino every night - no flashing lights there. :confused: Where did you read/hear this.

 

You may have been reading reports of the Zuiderdam when she first came out - people were complaining about the decor and loud colours, but I certainly did not find this on the Westerdam. We had a lovely SS suite and there certainly was no need for a sleep-mask. The decor was very nice. Lots of nook and crannies to sit back, relax and read a good book.

 

I think you are getting yourself upset for nothing.

[Esme]

double post!

[K&RCurt]

Well...This was the loudest visual item in our Veranda stateroom on the Westerdam:

[gizmo]

I think dogladyjw is referring to the Zuiderdam also.

[dakrewser]

Now Holland America has these mega ships named after the 4 points of the compass and I understand they are patterned after the Carnival ships, gaudy and lots of flashing lights.

 

Don't know where you got this impression (certainly not from reading messages here), but your understanding is flat-out wrong.

[Randyk47]

Dogladyjw - I really don't think you'd find HAL to have changed much from your Statendam cruise. Yes, the new Vista class ships are larger but certainly not "mega" liners. Secondly, you'd find the lounges to be pretty much in the same relative place on the ship and about the same in atmosphere that you liked about the smaller S class. Yes, they added a disco to the Vista class but you don't have to go there....it's actually kind of easy to miss as you don't have to walk through it to get around. Yes, they added a few things to make HAL more kid friendly but in no form, shape, or fashion have they made HAL like Carnival. Same company yes, still pretty much a completely different product.

[peaches from georgia]

No matter what you heard, isn't being "terrified" a little bit of an overreaction?

[gizmo]

Don't know where you got this impression (certainly not from reading messages here), but your understanding is flat-out wrong.

 

Not exactly flat out wrong.

 

I have not seen anything about flashing lights, but I don't know if the disco has these types of lights or not. Someone else can answer that question.

 

There were posts about the Zuiderdam that some thought the decor was loud and outright ugly. Carnivel type references were made to that ship.

 

The other ships had better reviews on the decor.

[jhannah]

Yes, the Zuiderdam's color scheme is not traditional Holland America. But I didn't find it overpowering. The only flashing lights I saw were in the Northern Lights disco ... where you'd expect them. If you'll visit the Carnival website and see pix of their ships, I believe you'll see a big difference between their more "neon and chrome" look and the more understated elegance of the HAL ships ... even the Zuiderdam.

[zackiedawg]

I experienced my first HAL cruise a few weeks ago on the Zuiderdam, which has been stated by many to be the brightest, gaudiest, or youngest of the HAL ships, therefore the one that should most exhibit the manifestation of all your fears. However, while the decor in some lounges and rooms was definately brighter and bolder than typically found on the smaller HAL ships, and the crowd definately infused with younger folks, I can tell you that it in no way compared to Carnival or even RCCL in the overall 'youngness', 'loudness', or 'brightness' of the ship.

 

I happen to enjoy RCCL, Princess, Celebrity, and HAL...so I can't claim to have the same aversions as you do, and being 36 I may be considered one of the invading youth with a taste inclined towards the louder and bolder. However, I can only try to convince you that I am a very calm, relaxed person, who enjoys as much solitude and quiet as I can get on a cruise, and revel in those small, quiet areas on ships where I can relax with a book. I also happen to be a history buff, and admirer of architecture and art - my taste tends towards the impressionist/classical art and design as opposed to most modern schools - so I look for natural wood, brasswork, restrained and classical art and sculpture, and grandiose traditional 'liner' ship design. And despite the brighter decor and a younger crowd, I had no problems with the overall ambiance and atmosphere of the Zuiderdam nor did I ever struggle to find solitude and quiet.

 

You have to take these types of comparisons with a grain of salt - those who are unwilling to accept any alteration to their routine or their preferences tend to overexaggerate the impact of the changes. Are these vessels slightly more youth oriented and brighter than an uber-traditional HAL ship? Certainly. Are they comparable to a Carnival ship from the late 1980s? Not close. The average age on the Zuiderdam, purely speculative but based on observation, might have dropped from HAL's average of 60-70 to possibly mid-50s. Not exactly a college party ship. Age ranges went from the rare children belonging to mid-30s couples (no more than a handful), to nurse-assisted oxygen-toting nonagenarians.

 

What you also must consider is that the market is constantly changing, and a company unwilling to change with that market often finds itself uncompetitive and often finds itself out of business. Profits within the industry are narrowed, fuel costs are up, and port charges at home ports are higher. Despite this, the Caribbean cruise market is booming, and demand remains high for short cruises from local markets. It is no secret that HAL's traditional ships cater to not only an older crowd with a steady (read: low-growth) cruise booking rate, but that those cruises are generally the longer-itineraries and more diverse locations. Without catering to the smaller, shorter markets as well, HAL may not remain profitable. And if it doesn't remain profitable to parent Carnival, they may not want to be burdened with them anymore. And if they go out of business, then what becomes of your favored traditional ships?

 

Wouldn't it be better to simply accept the Vista class ships for what they are, simply don't book them if you don't favor their style or crowd, and continue to enjoy your more traditional and smaller HAL ships? Viewed from two different prespectives the Vista class ships take on two completely different images - from the HAL small-ship rigidly-unchanging traditionalists, they are loud, flashing, technicolor teen-dream mega-vessels; while the young party crowd of Carnival see them as a large floating nursing home entertained by knitting classes, early sitting dinners, and asleep by 8pm. Isn't it more likely that the Vista-class ships are somewhere between those two extremes? Especially considering that my mother (a HAL small-ship traditionalist of 23 HAL cruises and 98 overall) and myself (A veteran of Carnival, RCCL, Costa and the like on my first HAL cruise at 36) both found everything we wanted and had a wonderful cruise.

 

Despite the new style and direction of the new larger HAL ships, there has been no sign of the smaller HAL ships being infected with some transmittable disease from Carnival that will bleed down the HAL line from the Vista class bearing neon-colored vinyl, bright lights, and beer-drinking contests.

[zackiedawg]

duplicate post

[1drifter]

Garykool has some wonderful pictures of the Zuiderdam. You can judge for yourself.

 

 

 

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=116967

[1drifter]

http://www.cruise-addicts.com/photogallery/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=18843

 

This is a more direct link to the photos. There are 64 pictures of the ship.

[ESLO]

:) Dear dogladyjw,

 

My wife and I are very excited being booked on the New Noordam in March 2006 of next year.

 

Of course our decision was made since it will be the only HAL ship coming out of NYC next year, as we do not care to travel to meet ship. But we are returning because it is HAL.

 

After experiencing the Rotterdam for the last two times in 2003 and 2004 (this year taking a break - no HAL ship out of NYC) we did question would we like to experience a Vista Class Ship. With HAL choosing this style for the future and reading very favorable reviews, we chose to "dive in" to the opportunity.

 

We do not believe that the Noordam will resemble a "Mega Ship". True, the shape is not as sleek as a liner and also taller then the Rotterdam. The descriptions of the other Vista ships are very well appointed in style and decor.

 

We are eager and excited to experience Vista Class.

 

" Be Not Afraid..........."

 

Regards,

[Randyk47]

Gary is one of the better, if not the best, cruise ship photographers around. I truly appreciate his ability to shoot indoors pictures with great composition and color correctness. He and I have exchanged personal emails about his photography from a technical standpoint. There's no question in my mind you'll not find a better representation any ship than Gary's photos.

[ahoymatey3]

Garykool has some wonderful pictures of the Zuiderdam. You can judge for yourself.

 

 

 

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=116967

 

Very nice pictures, thanks. I thought the decor was more similar to the Maasdam, than say Fascination or Elation (the only 2 carnival I've been on). I was pleasantly surprised.

[zackiedawg]

Well I'm not Gary...but I also took a smattering of interior shots on the Zuiderdam a few weeks ago...I posted links to my album in my review. Here's the link to the album:

 

http://www.funtigo.com/zackiedawg?b=289048&c=177495&p=1.0&n=2&af=y&nav=prev&cr=1&rfm=y

 

I've got some shots of the cabin, some lounges, dining room, pool, hallways, etc which can give some help too.

[imsulin2]

Well, I've been on the Zuiderdam twice (by choice), and I never noticed any "glitzy" ambience or "flashing lights"....except when - occasionally....someone won in the Casino! On both cruises, I found the atmosphere to be very relaxing and "non-intrusive". Most recently, I did the Eastern on the Zui this past April, and had a wonderful time! My only disappointment was the Queen's Lounge theater (bad seating), but other than that, it was great! One thing I like about this ship is that it's very easy to navigate, and well-laid out. Large cabins, too. Yes, it's "Vista" class, but I never noticed any crowds or elevator lines. I was on the Caribbean Princess last month, and while it was a great cruise, this ship is really difficult to navigate, and there were many lines at elevators on certain floors. Just my thoughts!

[ahoymatey3]

zackidawg - nice pictures.

[mcfreda]

zackiedawg -- terrific shots -- what kind of camera did you use?

 

Maryann

[CPPADILLA]

Zackiedawg -- as stated above very nice pictures. Thanks for sharing.

[dogladyjw]

Thank you all! I think the only room on the Zuiderdam I could take is the Pinacle Grill. Otherwise, its way to RED and Gold! Sorry, but I think it is screaming at the top of its lungs! I will definately avoid that ship at all costs. I will check the gallery for the other 4. I just knew I could count on all of you!