Liberty problems

[devinc]

Solid information, chengkp75. Thank you for that.

[lacruisinfan]

Review my new post from this morning.

[heath_delphin]

Just got home from this cruise. Staff and CD were fantastic. Ship was very clean and well maintained. I was disappointed that we missed Cozumel but felt that Carnival compensated the passengers very well with the $100 credit per person.

 

There was a lot of discussion onboard that we were denied our spot in Cozumel due to the Liberty knocking loose a Mexican military vessel from its mooring while leaving Progresso. Our aft portside thrusters pushed a large military ship away from the dock and broke all but one of its lines. The gangway fell into the water and the ship almost went into the rocks before a second, smaller boat came to push it back. At the same time a waiting tug helped push the Liberty away from the dock. It was quite a sight and I felt sorry for all of the Mexicans who were scrambling on board and on the dock trying to secure the ship.

 

After we discovered that we wouldn't dock in Cozumel all heck broke loose with large groups of passengers berating and yelling at any and every Carnival employee they could find, at one point even chanting REFUND, REFUND at the Hotel Director in the Lobby. Petitions were passed around and there was a constant line of irate guests at the guest service counter for the remainder of the cruise.

 

I can understand being disappointed, but I have never experienced this kind of disgraceful rude behavior by guests towards ANY cruise staff. I was ashamed as a Texan that this was the perception that Carnival team members will have of us now.

[Thorncroft]

Just got home from this cruise. Staff and CD were fantastic. Ship was very clean and well maintained. I was disappointed that we missed Cozumel but felt that Carnival compensated the passengers very well with the $100 credit per person.

 

There was a lot of discussion onboard that we were denied our spot in Cozumel due to the Liberty knocking loose a Mexican military vessel from its mooring while leaving Progresso. Our aft portside thrusters pushed a large military ship away from the dock and broke all but one of its lines. The gangway fell into the water and the ship almost went into the rocks before a second, smaller boat came to push it back. At the same time a waiting tug helped push the Liberty away from the dock. It was quite a sight and I felt sorry for all of the Mexicans who were scrambling on board and on the dock trying to secure the ship.

 

After we discovered that we wouldn't dock in Cozumel all heck broke loose with large groups of passengers berating and yelling at any and every Carnival employee they could find, at one point even chanting REFUND, REFUND at the Hotel Director in the Lobby. Petitions were passed around and there was a constant line of irate guests at the guest service counter for the remainder of the cruise.

 

I can understand being disappointed, but I have never experienced this kind of disgraceful rude behavior by guests towards ANY cruise staff. I was ashamed as a Texan that this was the perception that Carnival team members will have of us now.

 

Did you get video? :D

[Hog Rider]

The problem with the propulsion that caused the slowdown earlier has already been repaired, as reported by Carnival.

 

LOL,

 

how many times have they used that line.

[loubetti]

LOL,

 

how many times have they used that line.

 

Exactly what is your point?

[chengkp75]

LOL,

 

how many times have they used that line.

 

Considering the ship made about 22 knots getting back from Cozumel to Galveston (22.5 is rated top speed), I would say the propulsion problem was repaired.

[webzila]

This story made the news in Houston:

http://www.click2houston.com/news/carnival-liberty-having-problems-with-ship-bow-thrusters

[Hog Rider]

Considering the ship made about 22 knots getting back from Cozumel to Galveston (22.5 is rated top speed), I would say the propulsion problem was repaired.

 

 

Thrusters are the problem. Running into other boats is not repaired.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Hog Rider
Z

[chengkp75]

Thrusters are the problem. Running into other boats is not repaired.

 

Well, since I was responding to a poster who asked whether "all the problems" would be fixed, and I had already posted about the thruster, I was mentioning the propulsion as one of "all" the problems.

 

Now, even based on a poster who witnessed it, the Liberty DID NOT "run into other boats". The surge from the ship's propellers or thrusters stressed the Mexican "large military ship's'' (the description from the eyewitness, not a boat) mooring lines which caused them to snap. This is in fact a fairly common occurrence, even with ships with full maneuvering capability. You may have noticed that when a ship passes another ship that is docked, they will slow down, to prevent the wake from moving the docked ship and breaking mooring lines.

[loubetti]

Indeed, Chief.

 

Two notable ones were when Titanic snapped the lines the the City of New York when she was departing on her maiden voyage (left out of the film). The other was with her sister ship, Olympic, and an actual collision with HMS Hawke. No thrusters there, just the mass of a large ship displacing water and coming near another ship at close proximity. Titanic was moving slowly at the time too, but was the largest ship in the world at that time.

Edited May 8, 2016 by loubetti

[Hog Rider]

Lets not forget Triumph floating down the channel in Alabama. They really need to spend a little more on maint and less on CEO bonus.

[chengkp75]

Lets not forget Triumph floating down the channel in Alabama. They really need to spend a little more on maint and less on CEO bonus.

 

Let's see, a "dead ship" with no power other than a small, low voltage shore power line, breaks free in a storm. How is this a maintenance issue? Even the fire that left the ship without power and having to be towed to Mobile, was not a "maintenance" issue, since the part that failed and caused the fire had been renewed (maintenance) less than 6 months prior to the fire, and typically have a life of 10-20 years.

[oldvato]

Something does not make any sense. Did the thrusters break after leaving Progresso?

 

If the thrusters caused a Mexican ship to break it's mooring lines, then were the thrusters really broken?

 

Were tugs used in Progresso?

 

Were tugs used in Galveston?

 

ON another note. I wonder if those with insurance, can get some kind of compensation for trip interruption.

 

Also, most credit cards have trip insurance. If you paid with a credit card, it might not hurt to look into it. This might not qualify as trip interruption, but it won't hurt to ask.

Edited May 8, 2016 by oldvato

[chengkp75]

Something does not make any sense. Did the thrusters break after leaving Progresso?

 

If the thrusters caused a Mexican ship to break it's mooring lines, then were the thrusters really broken?

 

Were tugs used in Progresso?

 

Were tugs used in Galveston?

 

I believe the report was that the thruster (one of six) failed at Progresso.

 

The failed thruster was a bow thruster, and the Mexican ship was astern. Loss of maneuvering power at the bow may have required more power from the stern thrusters or propellers as I stated. This higher power would cause a larger surge against the Mexican ship.

 

Tugs were not used in Progresso, and are only required when necessary based on the port conditions and regulations.

 

The article linked from the Houston paper showed a tug in standby, which is normal, until actually needed.

[oldvato]

 

Tugs were not used in Progresso, and are only required when necessary based on the port conditions and regulations.

 

The article linked from the Houston paper showed a tug in standby, which is normal, until actually needed.

That was my point. That's what made me question if there was really a thruster problem. I've been to Progresso and Cozumel several times on different Carnival cruises, and I have never seen them use a tug. What I have seen is a Mexican Navy ship watching as we pull away from the dock to get underway. Normally Carnival does a full circle before docking, and the stern is towards the landing and the shops when moored. Edited May 8, 2016 by oldvato

[chengkp75]

That was my point. That's what made me question if there was really a thruster problem. I've been to Progresso and Cozumel several times on different Carnival cruises, and I have never seen them use a tug. What I have seen is a Mexican Navy ship watching as we pull away from the dock to get underway. Normally Carnival does a full circle before docking, and the stern is towards the landing and the shops when moored.

 

I think the thruster failed either arriving or departing Progresso. Even without one thruster, they may have been able to depart without tugs. As I've said, it all depends on port regulations and weather conditions. This Mexican Navy ship you've seen, is it docked and watching, or waiting to dock until the cruise ship leaves? This could be indicative that the normal docking causes excessive surging and the Navy tends to undock or wait to dock until a cruise ship leaves or docks, and would indicate that the Navy didn't get away before the Liberty started maneuvering, not that anything unusual caused the popped lines on the Navy vessel.

[oldvato]

I think the thruster failed either arriving or departing Progresso. Even without one thruster, they may have been able to depart without tugs. As I've said, it all depends on port regulations and weather conditions. This Mexican Navy ship you've seen, is it docked and watching, or waiting to dock until the cruise ship leaves? This could be indicative that the normal docking causes excessive surging and the Navy tends to undock or wait to dock until a cruise ship leaves or docks, and would indicate that the Navy didn't get away before the Liberty started maneuvering, not that anything unusual caused the popped lines on the Navy vessel.

All the times that I've been to Progresso, the Navy ship is not docked. It is cruising around as we are pushing away from the pier and as we get underway. I don't remember a hundred percent, but it might have escorted us out of the port area. Could be like you say that they are waiting to dock.

 

There have been a few times in Galveston, when we pulled away and got underway, there was always a Royal Carribbean cruise ship moored behind us also waiting to get underway. Their mooring lines didn't break. This was during the Sunday 7 day cruises, before Carnival had three ships.

Edited May 8, 2016 by oldvato

[sheryl_s_68]

Keep us updated if you do hear anything. We don't sail on it til June, but obviously are concerned.

[chengkp75]

All the times that I've been to Progresso, the Navy ship is not docked. It is cruising around as we are pushing away from the pier and as we get underway. I don't remember a hundred percent, but it might have escorted us out of the port area. Could be like you say that they are waiting to dock.

 

There have been a few times in Galveston, when we pulled away and got underway, there was always a Royal Carribbean cruise ship moored behind us also waiting to get underway. Their mooring lines didn't break. This was during the Sunday 7 day cruises, before Carnival had three ships.

 

The power required to get away from a dock varies by the dock, and the surge varies by the depth of the docking area. Also, the cruise ship is larger than the Navy vessel, so requires more energy to move it, and the lines are typically stronger the larger the vessel gets. If the RCI ship was waiting to leave right after the Carnival ship, they may have had their thrusters going to keep the ship against the dock, which would also affect the amount of motion the wake from Carnival would cause.

[oldvato]

The power required to get away from a dock varies by the dock, and the surge varies by the depth of the docking area. Also, the cruise ship is larger than the Navy vessel, so requires more energy to move it, and the lines are typically stronger the larger the vessel gets. If the RCI ship was waiting to leave right after the Carnival ship, they may have had their thrusters going to keep the ship against the dock, which would also affect the amount of motion the wake from Carnival would cause.

 

Plus the cruise ship was probably further away from the one getting underway.

[Hog Rider]

Was the thruster broke in Baltimore today😀

[Snowrose]

Video for the Mexican military boat. I can see why the Mexican captain would be a bit upset.

 

[Steve Dore]

Was the thruster broke in Baltimore today😀

 

You are quite the troll. How do you and your multiple accounts get to stay while others get banned for much less?

[BallFour4]

There have been a few times in Galveston, when we pulled away and got underway, there was always a Royal Carribbean cruise ship moored behind us also waiting to get underway. Their mooring lines didn't break. This was during the Sunday 7 day cruises, before Carnival had three ships.

 

 

Galveston has two ships on Sunday, and two Carnival every other Saturday. In the past we've had three different lines on a few days.

The difference is they are against solid docks, same side and some distance apart. The force of the thruster wash is against the bulkhead and not another vessel. That's a very different scenario than what happened in Progreso.

 

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