Possible missing passenger - Liberty

[Elaine5715]

LOL - This is not in any way accurate.

 

When he says something, bank on it.

[jonboy9756]

LOL - This is not in any way accurate.

 

Dora, Dora, Dora.

 

Nothing to LOL about here.

 

He knows exactly what he is talking about.

 

Unless you have some evidence you wish to share?

[Raxter54]

LOL - This is not in any way accurate.

 

Sorry, Dora, unless you have some actual facts to back up your claim, I'm going with Cheng. He's proven his maritime knowledge time and again. You, not so much.....

[Dave994]

Care to elaborate? :confused:

 

 

She is correct, he is not right according to this....

 

 

Florida’s Third District Court of Appeals decided in a landmark case in 2004, that cruise lines can be held liable for over-serving their passengers to the point of intoxication if they sustain injuries caused by their alcohol-related impairment.

[kitty9]

Maritime law can be murky as many countries have different interpretations. But basically, if a crime is committed on a ship while its in a bay or docked, the laws of that country are followed. Also, when you're in a country's territorial waters (12 miles or less from that country's coast) the laws of that country are followed. There are also provisions and some laws that must be followed in what's called a contiguous zone, which is 12 to 24 miles off a country's coastline. But once you're 25 miles out to sea, the laws of country of the ship's registry apply. So, if your ship is registered in Liberia, 25 miles out and farther, Liberia's laws are followed.

[Raxter54]

She is correct, he is not right according to this....

 

 

Florida’s Third District Court of Appeals decided in a landmark case in 2004, that cruise lines can be held liable for over-serving their passengers to the point of intoxication if they sustain injuries caused by their alcohol-related impairment.

 

And you, of course, have a link to this legal decision?

[triptolemus]

And you, of course, have a link to this legal decision?

 

Wasn't hard to find... on another Cruise Ship Lawyer blog no less...

 

http://www.cruiseshiplawyersblog.com/2012/02/liability-of-cruise-line-for-serving-alcohol-to-cruise-passengers.html

[Dave994]

And you, of course, have a link to this legal decision?

 

 

http://www.3dca.flcourts.org/Opinions/3d03-2132.pdf#search=Cruise%20ship%20intoxication

 

http://www.cruiseshiplawyersblog.com/2012/02/liability-of-cruise-line-for-serving-alcohol-to-cruise-passengers.html

 

I do :)

[Steve Dore]

And you, of course, have a link to this legal decision?

 

It's Hall v. Royal Caribbean Cruises - http://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-district-court-of-appeal/1402331.html

 

Judge Schwartz reversed the lower court’s decision ruling that the defendant cruise line has an established duty to exercise reasonable care for the safety of its passengers, a duty couched in general maritime law.

 

Royal Caribbean had argued that the Court of Appeal should look to Florida’s dram shop act as the governing law to resolve that case and not general maritime principles.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Steve Dore
Didnt mean to pile on. People are faster than I am. :-)

[Susieq0102]

Did they find her?

[Susieq0102]

Anyone on Liberty right now?

For the past two hours they have been paging a passenger every 5-10 mins. Has anyone experienced this before on a cruise?

They are now paging all guests asking if anyone has seen her recently to call security. We have seen several security personnel walking around as well.

I certainly hope she is ok.

 

Not trying to cause a panic on the forums, but I've never heard of this before

 

Did they find her?

[Diane123boys]

Did they find her?

 

 

ummmmm no :eek:

[tiggerkaj]

We left the following week. That's an amazing story- can't believe that someone survives such a fall!

 

Here's a link, it was also posted by someone on cc. http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2015/06/articles/rescue-1/norwegian-getaway-passenger-overboard-rescued/

 

She jumped in where the life boats were so luckily she wasn't all the way at the top.

 

If the reports are valid, it's a shame this woman fell backwards and no one was there to help.

[Dave994]

Did they find her?

 

 

No. Search was called off today.

[Maryscooking]

If the reports are valid, it's a shame this woman fell backwards and no one was there to help.

 

We likely won't ever know (unless it can be discerned from the video and is made public) but that may have been exactly how she wanted it. It actually seems like a much more likely scenario than a 33 yr old woman wanting to sit up on a railing so badly that she arranges equipment (a speaker?) in a way that she can get up there - by herself, at 2am, just to sit.

 

I hope for her children's sake that it is ruled an accident.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Maryscooking

[Susieq0102]

Thank you for that thoughtful insight. I totally understand what you're saying.

 

Thank you for you compassionate post. What could've/should've have been in place does not help this family. They are hurting and their loss should be respected. No one knows (on CC) how much therapy she had before deciding to end her life. My bother-in-law had all the mental help that was available, but he still followed through with his threats.

 

It is unfortunate it has effected so many passengers. Many people scrimped and scraped to pay for their much anticipated cruise. It is totally understandable about their disappointment. I would have been disappointed too.

 

Saying that, the cold and callous comments on here just blow my mind. :mad: Usually people who are so insensitive and rude have never experienced trauma in their lives. Count yourself fortunate. At least you are not one of her innocent family members left to pick up the pieces - selfish act on her part or not!! :(

[Susieq0102]

ummmmm no :eek:

 

 

ummmmmm I just found the rest of the posts. A simple no would have been appreciated.

[CruiseCrazyCouple0611]

As sad as this story is, it's another example of someone making bad decisions and paying a huge price for it. Whether she was intoxicated or not, we may never know. She may have simply went out on deck to smoke a cigarette and very foolishly thought she could climb up and sit on the railing. Again, we can all try to speculate what happened but the sad truth is, she was someone's wife, daughter, sister and mother. The one thing that bothers me is why a woman would be out on a deck by herself at 2 am. I think sometimes we use poor judgement when it comes to personal safety. If anything good can come from this horrible accident, is hopefully, people will think twice about making sound choices when on vacation.

[Raxter54]

http://www.3dca.flcourts.org/Opinions/3d03-2132.pdf#search=Cruise%20ship%20intoxication

 

http://www.cruiseshiplawyersblog.com/2012/02/liability-of-cruise-line-for-serving-alcohol-to-cruise-passengers.html

 

I do :)

 

Thank you. Hmmm, something to look into.....

[NoobCruise]

It's not the coast guards job beyond 1-2 miles from the coast. There have been people recovered from the ocean that have been out for many hours beyond 12 before. It's kinda silly to not make an attempt.

 

Carnival must not want to pay out everyone's FCCs of 20-30% from people whining about missing a port.

 

I'm very late to this thread and just now reading through, but wanted to respond about the coast guard. They don't just patrol 1-2 miles off the coast. My husband was on the US Coast Guard Cutter Morgenthau and then the Munroe for several years. These ships travel around the world and often do large organized training exercises with other countries. My husband spent some time in Japan and Australia while training with their coast guards. They stop and help for emergency situations regardless of location and regardless of what country the ship or missing person is from.

Edited May 16, 2016 by NoobCruise

[NoobCruise]

Well then, we might as well take all guns away, pills away, booze away, close all bridges, stop all trains from running, etc. Those objects all contribute to someone doing themselves in. The Golden Gate Bridge is now equipped with a netting barrier to prevent people from jumping off, but it doesn't prevent them from jumping in front of a car or train. A member of our family blew his brains out with a gun, and the other one OD'ed. Where there's a will there's a way.

 

/just saying

 

The nets don't work on the Golden Gate either. A friend's son jumped from it in March. It was verified by checking the video cameras, but they still haven't found his body. They not only have the nets to prevent jumpers, but they don't allow pedestrians on the bridge at night, and they have locked gates to block access, and they have volunteers patrolling the bridge all night every night. Yet they still have jumpers weekly. If a person is determined, they'll find a way.

[beerman2]

As sad as this story is, it's another example of someone making bad decisions and paying a huge price for it. Whether she was intoxicated or not, we may never know. She may have simply went out on deck to smoke a cigarette and very foolishly thought she could climb up and sit on the railing. Again, we can all try to speculate what happened but the sad truth is, she was someone's wife, daughter, sister and mother. The one thing that bothers me is why a woman would be out on a deck by herself at 2 am. I think sometimes we use poor judgement when it comes to personal safety. If anything good can come from this horrible accident, is hopefully, people will think twice about making sound choices when on vacation.

 

They will be able to tell how much alcohol was consumed that day/evening by checking he S&S card. Agree we have all used poor judgement at one time or another.

 

This very well could have been one!

 

Unfortunately this will not be the last of someone going overboard, whatever the case may be.

[mmckm]

The reason ships are foreign registered is because of US taxes no other reason. The movies stars and rich all register there toys in foreign counties also for the same reason.

[chengkp75]

The reason ships are foreign registered is because of US taxes no other reason. The movies stars and rich all register there toys in foreign counties also for the same reason.

 

That may be why corporations like the cruise lines are incorporated in foreign countries, but registering ships in flags of convenience results in many, many other benefits than just taxes.

[Bookbug53]

No, what I am saying is that the laws of Panama apply to a Panamanian flag ship. So whatever the liquor laws or liquor liability of bar owners are in Panama, that is what applies. This is one of many reasons that ships are flagged in "countries of convenience".

 

Of course laws are different on cruise ships, they are not US territory, they are foreign territory. When the ship is in international waters, only the laws of the flag state, which in this case is Panama, apply (few exceptions), and the "dram shop laws" of the US don't apply.

 

 

But the drinking age in Panama is 18. On Carnival it is 21.

 

And to be flagged US the ships must have been built in the US. The 'convenience' part is just an added benefit as I doubt they would choose to do so even if they could.