Crown Princess Alaska RT Vancouver 5/6

[CU64]

I sure hope Friday goes way faster. We were lucky compared to most! Our balcony was directly across from the glass hallway leading to the ship.....by 6pm people looked they had been dragged thru the desert and ready to jump.

 

We told the Customs Agent they must be really tired (we were in the last group #91 at 6:50PM). He said that they had to go through 8 days of what happened May 6.

[Magellan321]

I'm actually putting together a FOIA request to compare 2015 and 2016 staffing levels on selected one ship, two ship and three-ship days (both scheduled and actual), as well as documents related to the implementation of Global Entry for admissibility screening at Canada Place. My working hypothesis is that there is simply no way to accommodate enough officers at Canada Place to clear more than 4000 or so passengers between 11 and 4, and that staffing reflects this.

 

The local port of entry operations people have actually been pretty responsive to requests in the past, such as providing evidence that nobody has actually paid a PVSA fine in the Seattle region (including Alaska) between 2008 and 2013. So they're at least willing to talk about what they do.

 

I think you are right....for the number of people they have to clear with 3 ships there did not appear to be enough work stations or space. I really think if the self service kiosks we open the bottle neck wouldn't have been so extreme for some passengers.

 

We told the Customs Agent they must be really tired (we were in the last group #91 at 6:50PM). He said that they had to go through 8 days of what happened May 6.

 

Ugh....8 days of that:eek:

 

 

Putterdude....I hope you did not take my posting as an intention to whine about it. Yes, I have forwarded our experience. I have every intention to sail out of Vancouver again...it is a lovely city and the views while cruising the inside passage are not to be missed.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Magellan321

[LoveThisCruisingThing]

I'm sorry there were issues, already discussed. However, I take issue with your comment "I will not tolerate this..." Things do happen when you travel, either by air or ship, or car... How exactly would you not tolerate something if and when unexpected events occur? The only way of that happening is to stop traveling altogether....:eek:

 

I find it amazing that a threat can be said without hesitation. Things happen. I have learned to live with, there is nothing I can do, and it makes for a story when I get back home.

[VibeGuy]

The APC kiosks still require a stop and possible questioning by the officer. They just allow the officer to concentrate on the cognitive portion of the entry interview and automate the data collection. Published data show that officers clear roughly 4x as many people per hour with the kiosks as with conventional document review. Overall it cuts total waiting times 33% for all passengers and a whopping 89% for passengers eligible to use them. More on this in a moment.

 

Where they really EXCEL is that the interface is available in many languages. I was actually impressed with the build quality and software interaction design. Turns out the most popular brand of terminals in the world for US entry is actually made by the YVR airport authority.

 

Where they don't work well: the US entry version of the software for the brand of kiosks installed at Canada Place only takes passports from the US and Visa Waiver countries. No passport cards, no NEXUS cards, no US Enhanced DLs. If it's not a passport book, it's useless. So now we optimally need five queues: GE/NEXUS. US/CA nationals where everyone in the party has a passport book, US/CA traveling with other documents, visa waiver countries, all others. And here lies chaos, because you either need perfect sorting into the queues or you put everyone to the machine and it ends up sending people to the lowest common denominator for the party.

[Putterdude]

I'm actually putting together a FOIA request to compare 2015 and 2016 staffing levels on selected one ship, two ship and three-ship days (both scheduled and actual), as well as documents related to the implementation of Global Entry for admissibility screening at Canada Place. My working hypothesis is that there is simply no way to accommodate enough officers at Canada Place to clear more than 4000 or so passengers between 11 and 4, and that staffing reflects this.

 

The local port of entry operations people have actually been pretty responsive to requests in the past, such as providing evidence that nobody has actually paid a PVSA fine in the Seattle region (including Alaska) between 2008 and 2013. So they're at least willing to talk about what they do.

 

Go get them tiger, however I suspect that it's going to take a lot of letters from a lot of people to effect a significant change in CBP staffing levels.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Putterdude

[Putterdude]

 

 

 

Putterdude....I hope you did not take my posting as an intention to whine about it. Yes, I have forwarded our experience. I have every intention to sail out of Vancouver again...it is a lovely city and the views while cruising the inside passage are not to be missed.

 

No, not at all. I just think if affected people spent as much time writing the appropriate people as they do moaning on a thread like this changes may be effected. However, I can assure you nobody at DHS or CBP is going to do anything about posts on CC.

[just hooked]

Hi would like to know what's it like getting off the ship in Vancouver, we dock at 7.30 and will do walk off luggage. What's it like at customs and immigration getting off the ship

 

Thanks

[Urban trekker]

The answer will depend somewhat on where you last stop before Vancouver was - if you stopped in Victoria - you will clear immigration there and just have to hand in your customs form in Vancouver.

 

Otherwise you clear CANADIAN Customs etc in Vancouver - my personal experience has been positive - very little delay etc - however I have not disembarked on a three ship day so it might be a little different.

 

I suspect you are asking this because you have transportation or a flight booked fairly early because you mentioned early walk off.

 

Let us know you travel plans and we can advise you whether they are practical or not.

 

Hope this helps

 

Cheers!

 

Dennis

[abbydancer2003]

Last Friday, we didn't do immigration - just picked up our bags and turned in our customs forms. There was a snaking line to turn in the forms, but it only took about 10-15 minutes. I think maybe it was because a lot of people in line didn't do it right. For example, one guy left his wife waiting for another bag. The agent made him wait. The problem might have been that many people were not fluent in English (or French the other language on the form).

[Gibby]

We were on the May 6 Crown as well, and I feel guilty that we got there what I would have said was way too early.

 

We arrived at the port around 0945, drove right down and was able to drop off our bags. We then went upstairs to the "Holding Room" only to find about 10 people in it. The number of chairs they had set out gave me a cause to worry though.

 

After a quick run to the wine store, we got number 4 (around 10:30) and proceeded to wait, for 10 min. only. Down an elevator (mobility issues), in a door to security, right on to customs, 3 min. in customs (if that), down the hall to Princess Check in, and we were in the Platinum/Elite lounge by 11.

 

We had to wait till about 11:45 when the ship began to board, but were one of the first on.

 

I knew there were 3 ships in port, knew there would be delays, but what happened was way beyond what even I expected. As I said, I feel guilty that I was so early.

 

As for disembarkation, Canada Customs just took the card (5 seconds, US customs could learn something!). The big problem, and this is what I heard, was that a large tour group of Asians (and there were lots on the ship) got off before they were supposed to and this clogged the baggage area as they were all standing around with no luggage to pick up (as it was not out yet).

[CU64]

I find it amazing that a threat can be said without hesitation. Things happen. I have learned to live with, there is nothing I can do, and it makes for a story when I get back home.

 

sorry you interpreted it that way.

[Pierlesscruisers]

It is not Canadian customs and immigration, it is US ICE that is the problem there. They clear the passengers before boarding so they don't have to clear the passengers at an Alaskan port.

 

They (US ICE), or someone, also required all of the passengers boarding the Ruby, which was going only on to Seattle, to go through them to, even though they had to go through US ICE again once they reached Seattle! I can see no reason for that. That caused another 3400 +/- passengers to go through through them.

 

Tom

[RDC1]

I'm actually putting together a FOIA request to compare 2015 and 2016 staffing levels on selected one ship, two ship and three-ship days (both scheduled and actual), as well as documents related to the implementation of Global Entry for admissibility screening at Canada Place. My working hypothesis is that there is simply no way to accommodate enough officers at Canada Place to clear more than 4000 or so passengers between 11 and 4, and that staffing reflects this.

 

The local port of entry operations people have actually been pretty responsive to requests in the past, such as providing evidence that nobody has actually paid a PVSA fine in the Seattle region (including Alaska) between 2008 and 2013. So they're at least willing to talk about what they do.

 

How much are you prepared to pay to get the FOIA information? While a U.S. government agency has to respond they can also charge the requestor the labor costs for gathering and providing the information. Asking someone there may get you some informal/free information. Submitting a formal FOIA generates a formal process, including costs. Been involved in putting together both cost estimates and formal responses. Many are withdrawn once they get the cost estimate.

 

Vancouver is well known for having problems the first couple of trips early in the season. Usually smooths out once the staff has gone through a few turn arounds.

Edited May 19, 2016 by RDC1

[VibeGuy]

The one for the PVSA assessments was easily resolved by email.

 

This one is likely to be less than an hour of staff time. The local port supervisor is actually very easy to work with and understands the importance of a quality embarkation and disembarkation at northwest ports.

 

Those getting off at Seattle had to go through Customs, but not Immigration, btw. The preclear facility at Canada Place is only interested in admissibility, not customs or agriculture. It would have been much slower at Seattle had they done full inbound immigration. However, I really think they should do that on three-ship days in Vancouver; you can start loading the ship when you have it zeroed. Delay people getting home, not getting on the ship.

[capriccio]

Delay people getting home, not getting on the ship.

 

A policy with that result would be terrible. A ship full of people disembarking have onward travel plans that for many (the great majority I would suspect) include making scheduled flights (or trains). A delay getting on the ship is a minor inconvenience compared with missing a flight! I have disembarked from a coastal repositioning cruise in mid-May (2012) at Canada Place with 2 ships in port and that was an exercise in patience with long lines and too few Canadian immigration officers. Luckily we were spending an extra day in Vancouver so, while we were slightly annoyed, we were not seriously inconvenienced.

 

I do wish you well on your FOIA Act request, maybe that will bring the staffing problems to the attention of a higher level of CBP management but I have to agree with others that the nightmare problems at Canada Place in May happen annually and usually work themselves out by the end of the month.

[Magellan321]

A policy with that result would be terrible. A ship full of people disembarking have onward travel plans that for many (the great majority I would suspect) include making scheduled flights (or trains). A delay getting on the ship is a minor inconvenience compared with missing a flight! I have disembarked from a coastal repositioning cruise in mid-May (2012) at Canada Place with 2 ships in port and that was an exercise in patience with long lines and too few Canadian immigration officers. Luckily we were spending an extra day in Vancouver so, while we were slightly annoyed, we were not seriously inconvenienced.

 

I do wish you well on your FOIA Act request, maybe that will bring the staffing problems to the attention of a higher level of CBP management but I have to agree with others that the nightmare problems at Canada Place in May happen annually and usually work themselves out by the end of the month.

 

I think the bigger issue is....if it happens the beginning of every season...then it isn't a surprise and steps can be taken to lessen the chaos.

[dz63]

Altho we knew 3 ships in Port and that security and customs likely to be slow, we went at 2:30 and sat in a huge room for 4 hrs waiting to get called for Security line/ then Customs, got on ship at 7PM....lost 6 hrs. Some went at 12 and got on at 6PM.

 

Capt had to reroute us next day because we lost entry to Glacier Bay due to this delay,........

The weather was unbelievably gorgeous the whole trip. However, it felt like a 6day cruise.......never again will I tolerate this. One person with us had Global Entry and was able to use it AFTER we went through security (4 hrs). There were not enough interpreters for the foreign groups + too many people.

 

We were also part of the May 6th embarkation fiasco! We arrived shortly before 2:00 pm, thinking that we would be able to board quickly. Boy, were we wrong. We were lead to a large holding room where thousands of people were sitting among rows and rows of chairs—everyone waiting to board one of the three ships (Crown Princess, Celebrity Solstice or Norwegian Jewel) docked at Canada Place.

 

 

I was given group number 89, my husband number 90 and we sat down to wait as they began to call out numbers 45-47.

 

 

 

Worried we might miss our ship, we were assured that the ship would not leave until all passengers are boarded. Needless to say, our dreams of enjoying lunch in the dining room and perhaps hanging out in the hot tub before sail away soon diminished. After 4 hours, our numbers were finally called and we were able to head over to security. Long line ups waited for us there, but at least it was moving. Once we passed through security, we were dismayed to learn that we had to wait in yet another waiting area. About 30 minutes later, we could finally leave this waiting area and join the line going through US customs. We were told the delay was due to a lack of US customs officials and that there were only 10 officers to process approximately 7,000 passengers wanting to board the 3 large cruise ships in Canada Place. Moreover anyone who was not a US or Canadian citizen had to be photographed and fingerprinted which further delayed this whole process. Consequently it was almost 7:00 pm before we finally boarded the Crown Princess. Never had we experienced such a lengthy embarkation procedure. It took so long for us to get through US customs and security that by the time we arrived at our stateroom our luggage was already there waiting for us! Now, that was a first!

 

The Crown Princess finally set sail shortly before 8:00 pm, almost 3 1/2 hours behind schedule. We missed watching sail away as we were in the dining room finally getting something into our empty stomachs!

 

To make matters worse, the next day we were informed that since the ship sailed out so late, we missed the tide conditions that would enable us to travel through Seymour Narrows. Therefore the Captain took us out to sea where we had to now endure with rough sea conditions. With the ship rocking back and forth and bouncing up and down, like an untamed amusement ride, many were beginning to feel queasy—myself being one of them—so much so that I missed dinner that evening! And that is not the end of it either. Since we sailed out so late, we would have to miss Glacier Bay, unless the itinerary changes. So the Captain changed the itinerary. Now with a strange itinerary in place we were able to sail through Glacier Bay but this screwed up our Juneau and Skagway port stops and excursions. In both ports we had to cut our excursions short or give them up completely and we could no longer see and do everything as we originally planned and looked so forward to experiencing. This Alaskan cruise was a once-in-a-lifetime experience for us and although we tried to make the best of a change in itinerary, not being able to do and see everything we had eagerly anticipated on doing was a huge disappointment! Yes, our itinerary and planned excursions ended up being screwed over all due to departing late because of the lack of US Custom Officials in Canada Place!

[Gibby]

Looking at the port schedule going forward...

 

Lots of 3 ship days. Yup, they better get it figured out.

[VibeGuy]

A policy with that result would be terrible. A ship full of people disembarking have onward travel plans that for many (the great majority I would suspect) include making scheduled flights (or trains). A delay getting on the ship is a minor inconvenience compared with missing a flight.

 

Seattle has a fully-capable port operation that would be completely capable of clearing a ship in a timely manner - they do so for customs purposes, and adding immigration would be a matter of incremental additional time - the delay is likely to be measured in seconds or minutes, not hours. Sailings to San Pedro are rarely precleared for admissibility, for example, and 15 agents can still process the ship in a timely manner.

 

Further, a huge number of passengers on 1NT cruises are locals. The consequences of late departures from Vancouver for Alaska-bound ships can ripple through entire itineraries because of the tide conditions at Seymour Narrows and limited windows for entering Glacier Bay. This isn't just people missing lunch in the MDR; this is screwing up port calls for the entire week in some cases.

 

When two of the ships at Canada Place are headed to Alaska, where they don't have high-capacity clearance facilities and one is headed directly to one of the largest ports of entry in the Western US, the benefits of preadmissibility clearance for the one ship are specious at best. Get the two ships who really need it out on time, and utilize the available resources to clear the passengers on arrival. Preclearance is supposed to be a convenience - on three-ship days, it is anything but.

 

The difference later in the season, incidentally, is that many of the ships are headed to SF or LA, with or without intermediate stops, and end up not being precleared. In dozens of sailings from Vancouver, I can tell you it's not a learning curve issue - the process is equally fouled up, it's just that there's a more judicious use of the preclearance facilities at the end of the season.

Edited May 19, 2016 by VibeGuy

[jansarts]

As I said earlier in this thread.. Unless you lived through this horrible experience, you wouldn't understand. When we put so much into this trip and we run into the first huge problem and things continued to unravel...It does ruin the trip. We will remember this cruise as a complete calamity of errors. Thanks for explaining it so well.

[notentirelynormal]

Hey, I don't get to spend 6 months a year on a cruise ship....I am resigned to sit on the shore, watch cruise ships and play a lot of lousy golf.:o

 

Well, in fairness you have your pants down for a great part of that time high fiving the ship.

[Putterdude]

Well, in fairness you have your pants down for a great part of that time high fiving the ship.

 

Touché:D

[VibeGuy]

I give credit where credit is due.

 

Line check in is in Hall C, wait time was about five minutes seated. There were four parties ahead of me in the Preferred lane. I had my cruise card within 15 minutes of arriving at the terminal.

 

Hall B was used to hold crowds to buffer them for security. 20 minutes there.

 

Down the escalator to the Cruise level, about 20 minutes until screened.

 

Global Entry was available to those who are participants and know it's an option. Less than three minutes waiting and a hassle-free clearance.

 

I was seated in the MDR at precisely 1 pm, precisely one hour after I arrived.

 

This marks my third three-ship sailing from Canada Place and BY FAR the best. My record from curb to ship is 25 minutes on a single ship day, so this was very favorable.

[abbydancer2003]

Global Entry was available to those who are participants and know it's an option. Less than three minutes waiting and a hassle-free clearance.

 

I was seated in the MDR at precisely 1 pm, precisely one hour after I arrived.

 

 

I asked about using GE. They had no clue and sent me to the seats pre-CBP. I missed lunch in the MDR.

 

We had no wait to get on the ship. We walked up the gangway, got our picture taken by the security guys (no one else there) and went to our room then the Horizon Court.

[redtop101]

Arrived at Canada Place at 10.05. Ushered into Hall C #8 cards. Short 20 minute wait to check in at Platinum line. Issued cruise cards, then through security in 3 minutes. Onto US CBP. Told customer service guy we had Nexus/GE. Bypassed entire line and directed straight away to very nice immigration officer. Through in 3 minutes & in P/E/S lounge with coffee & pastries at 11.05. On ship at 11.45 am with a leisurely lunch in dining room.