Duck Duck Cruise Posted November 20, 2017 #1 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Is there a possibility that you could find out how the new Cuba Regulations apply to our cruise? Our cruise appears to be the only one that boards outside of the US. "The new regulations apply to all guests – regardless of nationality or country of residence – boarding a vessel in a U.S. port." We board in Lisbon and visit Cuba before stopping in any US port. There will be many EU and UK citizens or residents on this cruise. It would be nice to get clarification about whether or not we have to use US "authorized" tours or be able to tour on our own. Thank you, Vince Duck Duck Cruise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBMacLaird Posted November 21, 2017 #2 Share Posted November 21, 2017 We are looking into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Lobbylin Posted November 21, 2017 #3 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Thanks Vince & Bonnie...(y) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Duck Cruise Posted November 21, 2017 Author #4 Share Posted November 21, 2017 We are looking into this. Thank you Bonnie. We appreciate your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Duck Cruise Posted November 28, 2017 Author #5 Share Posted November 28, 2017 We are looking into this. Any word yet on this Bonnie? Just thought I would check back every week to see what the status is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBMacLaird Posted November 29, 2017 #6 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Any word yet on this Bonnie? Just thought I would check back every week to see what the status is. No, no word yet. I'll ask again. BTW, what is your departure date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Duck Cruise Posted November 29, 2017 Author #7 Share Posted November 29, 2017 No, no word yet. I'll ask again.BTW, what is your departure date? Departs Lisbon on October 23, 2018 Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBMacLaird Posted November 29, 2017 #8 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Departs Lisbon on October 23, 2018Thank you Our country's Cuba policy lately is a "work-in-progress". I know I can hardly keep up with the changes :confused:. The policy may change again by the time your cruise rolls around! I know our staff is focusing on our compliance for the Cuba sailings happening now. But that said, I'll ask again if they have an understanding what, if any, differences there will be with a Cuba-bound voyage originating in Europe, assuming everything remains as it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Duck Cruise Posted November 29, 2017 Author #9 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Our country's Cuba policy lately is a "work-in-progress". I know I can hardly keep up with the changes :confused:. The policy may change again by the time your cruise rolls around! I know our staff is focusing on our compliance for the Cuba sailings happening now. But that said, I'll ask again if they have an understanding what, if any, differences there will be with a Cuba-bound voyage originating in Europe, assuming everything remains as it is now. I realize that the rules will probably change between now and then but being that the cruise departs from a non-USA port it will be interesting to see if International laws will be used instead of USA policies and how that will impact our experience. One of the reasons we booked this cruise was because it did NOT originate in the USA. Thank you again for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Duck Cruise Posted December 6, 2017 Author #10 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Hi Bonnie, Any word this week on this? Thanks again, Vince and Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBMacLaird Posted December 6, 2017 #11 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Hi Bonnie,Any word this week on this? Thanks again, Vince and Linda Sorry, no I haven't heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Duck Cruise Posted December 26, 2017 Author #12 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Welcome back Bonnie! We are hoping you had a great holiday. We know you are probably really busy so there is no hurry on this but when you get a chance and find the time could you see if they have determined any answers to our original post? Thank you again, Vince and Lin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBMacLaird Posted December 26, 2017 #13 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Welcome back Bonnie! We are hoping you had a great holiday. We know you are probably really busy so there is no hurry on this but when you get a chance and find the time could you see if they have determined any answers to our original post? Thank you again, Vince and Lin I haven't forgotten your query. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisecritic001 Posted December 27, 2017 #14 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Bonnie, I am also on this cruise. As a UK passport holder I have checked the Cuban Consulate web site and though there are specific requirements for travel from the USA visitors from other countries need only a Tourist card unless they come directly from the USA. As the Journey leaves from Lisbon and does not go to the USA until after docking in Cuba I can see no reason why I should not be allowed to obtain my own Tourist card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBMacLaird Posted December 30, 2017 #15 Share Posted December 30, 2017 I realize that the rules will probably change between now and then but being that the cruise departs from a non-USA port it will be interesting to see if International laws will be used instead of USA policies and how that will impact our experience. One of the reasons we booked this cruise was because it did NOT originate in the USA. Thank you again for your help. Hi Vince and Lin, well, this is probably not the answer you were hoping for, nor expecting: "No, the regulations will not be different for two reasons: Azamara is wholly-owned by a company subject to U.S. jurisdiction the voyage disembarks in the U.S. Guests will still need a visa to disembark in Cuba, and will need to participate in at least one tour per day [to go ashore.]" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Duck Cruise Posted December 30, 2017 Author #16 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Hi Vince and Lin,well, this is probably not the answer you were hoping for, nor expecting: "No, the regulations will not be different for two reasons: Azamara is wholly-owned by a company subject to U.S. jurisdiction the voyage disembarks in the U.S. Guests will still need a visa to disembark in Cuba, and will need to participate in at least one tour per day [to go ashore.]" Thanks Bonnie. Now we can plan our visit there and not have any surprises at the port. Happy New Year to you. Vince and Lin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Lobbylin Posted December 30, 2017 #17 Share Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) Hi Vince and Lin,well, this is probably not the answer you were hoping for, nor expecting: "No, the regulations will not be different for two reasons: Azamara is wholly-owned by a company subject to U.S. jurisdiction the voyage disembarks in the U.S. Guests will still need a visa to disembark in Cuba, and will need to participate in at least one tour per day [to go ashore.]" Thanks Bonnie for this update, but this answer does not make sense when Azamara’s own paperwork states in accordance with US and International overseas law that US governance only covers any national departing from a US Port/Airport. I think your office simply don’t want to be flexible and want the easy route of just sticking with their existing visa paperwork. Please can you ask if international passengers with non US passports are permitted to apply for their own non restrictive Cuban Visas prior to embarking in their own country of residence, so they are free to visit Cuba freely as is their right, under International Law because they are departing from Lisbon and not the US? Please kindly ask again that they recheck International Law for non US passport holders, as we are permitted to freely travel from a non - US port to Cuba, and then from Cuba to the US without being subject to US jurisdiction provided we secure visas in our home country where we hold our passports (this is for non-US passport holders) Thank you. Edited December 30, 2017 by Lobbylin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisecritic001 Posted December 30, 2017 #18 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Bonnie, No, the regulations will not be different for two reasons: Azamara is wholly-owned by a company subject to U.S. jurisdiction the voyage disembarks in the U.S. Guests will still need a visa to disembark in Cuba, and will need to participate in at least one tour per day [to go ashore.]" Does this mean that we will need to buy the Azamara supplied Visa and a tour in order to get off the ship?. As I am not a US citizen why can't I obtain my own visa and use that without being forced to take the one supplied by Azamara? Whilst I understand that Royal Caribbean is a US based company the Azamara Journey is not registered in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabin1 Posted December 30, 2017 #19 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Idea: To avoid all the conflicting information this is what I would do if I were sailing from out of the country. I would call the Cuban Embassy in Miami. Might be worth the money and the call to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak. If I ever go even from Miami I fully intend to do that and I live in Ft. Lauderdale. I would not want any surprises. Just an idea Kathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallydave Posted December 30, 2017 #20 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Bonnie, No, the regulations will not be different for two reasons: Azamara is wholly-owned by a company subject to U.S. jurisdiction the voyage disembarks in the U.S. Guests will still need a visa to disembark in Cuba, and will need to participate in at least one tour per day [to go ashore.]" Does this mean that we will need to buy the Azamara supplied Visa and a tour in order to get off the ship?. As I am not a US citizen why can't I obtain my own visa and use that without being forced to take the one supplied by Azamara? Whilst I understand that Royal Caribbean is a US based company the Azamara Journey is not registered in the USA. Actually like most US "Based" Cruise Lines Royal Caribbean is registered in Liberia so NOT a US Company. As to Kathy's (rabin1) suggestion of calling the Cuban Embassy in Miami, all Cuba cares about is that people come, have a visa, and spend money so will not be any help especially regarding US rules. The rules that Azamara are following are from the US and azamara is free to impose more rules than the US requires as long as all the US rules are followed. In other words they can do as they choose by exceeding the US rules and calls to any embassy or government entity are fruitless. Good luck all as this is similar to many of the others edicts and rules coming out of Miami and are part of the win/win for the company and lose/lose for the customers. Good luck beating this but, with the T's and C's written by lawyers and favoring the company most probably everyone will need to folllow what Miami has told Bonnie to pass on. A no win situation for the customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Lobbylin Posted December 30, 2017 #21 Share Posted December 30, 2017 I simply want to know that if I obtain a visa from the Cuban embassy in the UK as a British passport holder (which permits me free travel within Cuba as is my right under international law because we are embarking in Lisbon); that Azamara are not going to then force me to obtain a second visa onboard at extra cost, and force me to act within US jurisdiction rules, which on this particular sailing does not apply to me?:) To be honest on arrival in Havana, Cuban officials will not really care so long as I can produce a Cuban Visa, issued legitimately by a Cuban Embassy... I just don’t want Azamara to force me to obtain and use a US Cuban visa once I board the ship in Lisbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallydave Posted December 30, 2017 #22 Share Posted December 30, 2017 I simply want to know that if I obtain a visa from the Cuban embassy in the UK as a British passport holder (which permits me free travel within Cuba as is my right under international law because we are embarking in Lisbon); that Azamara are not going to then force me to obtain a second visa onboard at extra cost, and force me to act within US jurisdiction rules, which on this particular sailing does not apply to me?:) To be honest on arrival in Havana, Cuban officials will not really care so long as I can produce a Cuban Visa, issued legitimately by a Cuban Embassy... I just don’t want Azamara to force me to obtain and use a US Cuban visa once I board the ship in Lisbon. Unfortunately Bonnie did answer you question and it is not the answer you want and yes, Cuban officials won't care whet type of Visa you show but, from Bonnie's response azamara won't let you off the ship without following their rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Lobbylin Posted December 30, 2017 #23 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Unfortunately Bonnie did answer you question and it is not the answer you want and yes, Cuban officials won't care whet type of Visa you show but, from Bonnie's response azamara won't let you off the ship without following their rules. With all due respect Dave, I believe the response from Miami to Bonnie is incorrect for International passport holders, and I would be grateful if the question can be asked by Bonnie as to whether non-US passport holders can obtain their own Cuban visas in advance, and not be subject to buying and using a US visas whilst on board. And of course, if Azamara can lawfully stop us going ashore with our non-US Cuban visas? Thank you:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoHoHo Posted December 30, 2017 #24 Share Posted December 30, 2017 With all due respect Dave, I believe the response from Miami to Bonnie is incorrect for International passport holders, and I would be grateful if the question can be asked by Bonnie as to whether non-US passport holders can obtain their own Cuban visas in advance, and not be subject to buying and using a US visas whilst on board. And of course, if Azamara can lawfully stop us going ashore with our non-US Cuban visas? Thank you:) Sorry but I think Rallydave is correct and summed it up well. Basically, their ship, their rules. Might not be seen as fair as in how can they impose USA laws on us, but the responsibility buck is often passed down the line. For example airlines check your passport on check-in and can deny boarding if the agent does not like the ;look of you passport becasue it is worn or damaged. Yet that same passport has been accepted by the real authorities at a border check point just days before w/o question. They can do that and will do that because *IF* when you arrive at your destination you are denied entry and returned, the airline is held responsible for that and can be heavily fined. So while they are not the ultimate authority on you passports validity, they do have the power and a possibly poorly trained agent will make the care and you have no choice. Same in this case. The USA OFAC has allowed US cruise lines to carry pax to Cuba under certain rules and hold them responsible. So everyone on the ship, even non-USA passport holders are to abide by those same rules. If you don''t like the Terms then choose something else. I am Canadian (and so free to travel to Cuba with an inexpensive visa). I sailed to Cuba on Oceania last Spring and had to comply. Purchased the visa and had insurance coverage provided through the cruise line. Simpler and easy. Granted the US OFAC rules in place at that time were a little more free but I still was required to comply with the affidavit and in theory, could be requested to prove my compliance *maybe* even at some border crossing. All very doubtful but that is the rules of the game. now the rules are you MUST comply with the affidavit by taking "sanctioned/approved" tours only (and then can perhaps do other things on your own) and the CL is making certain you do comply and so they will not be fined by the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Lobbylin Posted December 30, 2017 #25 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Sorry but I think Rallydave is correct and summed it up well. Basically, their ship, their rules. Might not be seen as fair as in how can they impose USA laws on us, but the responsibility buck is often passed down the line. For example airlines check your passport on check-in and can deny boarding if the agent does not like the ;look of you passport becasue it is worn or damaged. Yet that same passport has been accepted by the real authorities at a border check point just days before w/o question. They can do that and will do that because *IF* when you arrive at your destination you are denied entry and returned, the airline is held responsible for that and can be heavily fined. So while they are not the ultimate authority on you passports validity, they do have the power and a possibly poorly trained agent will make the care and you have no choice. Same in this case. The USA OFAC has allowed US cruise lines to carry pax to Cuba under certain rules and hold them responsible. So everyone on the ship, even non-USA passport holders are to abide by those same rules. If you don''t like the Terms then choose something else. I am Canadian (and so free to travel to Cuba with an inexpensive visa). I sailed to Cuba on Oceania last Spring and had to comply. Purchased the visa and had insurance coverage provided through the cruise line. Simpler and easy. Granted the US OFAC rules in place at that time were a little more free but I still was required to comply with the affidavit and in theory, could be requested to prove my compliance *maybe* even at some border crossing. All very doubtful but that is the rules of the game. now the rules are you MUST comply with the affidavit by taking "sanctioned/approved" tours only (and then can perhaps do other things on your own) and the CL is making certain you do comply and so they will not be fined by the USA. Can I refer you and Bonnie to the Azamara website FAQs which states: https://www.azamaraclubcruises.co.uk/destinations/cuba/faq “ I am an international guest, do the new regulations apply to me?The new regulations apply to all guests – regardless of nationality or country of residence – boarding a vessel in a U.S. port. This portion of the regulations are not new and have always been applicable to International guests.” We are NOT boarding a vessel from a US Port. We are boarding the Azamara Journey from Lisbon, Portugal prior to visiting Cuba, at the end is a Summer season where the Journey has been cruising in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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