Tipping for Children

[Cuizer2]

[quote name='Gregor4500']Cuizer2, I know what you're saying and I agree. I wish I could pay my employees below minumum wage and save on all the taxes that go along with it. I'd rather pay 20% more for my food or haircut or my cruise. But we're not going to change 100's of years of tipping.[/quote]

From my understanding, the cruise lines pay very little in taxes, even on the actual cruise price. But you are right, the current system of tipping is not going to change - nor is my dislike for it, even though by paying the tips I am part of the problem I would like to see changed.

[GoinCruisin]

The service sector consists of MANY different industries... tipping applies to CERTAIN service sector industries, not all. There are alot of professions that fall into this category, doesn't mean all of them are paid the same way ;) Ted Turner is in the service industry, I'm sure nobody tips him :rolleyes:

[Hojo's redbeard]

I'm not going to beat a dead horse and repeat things mentioned previously. Hopefully people reading this thread that have not worked in the service industry (where tipping is the norm) have a new enlightenment about some things they didn't know before (ie., tips are paid by the server to support staff at a fixed percentage no matter what you left them, and that those servers are paid next to nothing!).

Now for a different perspective and an exclamation as to why the $2000/$2140 example will stay as is. There are two big reasons why. Marketing and Financial Performance.

1-Marketing. In the psychology of comparison shopping, you want to have the lowest perceived price. So, add on fees help make up the lower up front cost.

2-Financial Performance. Large Corporations have to keep Wall Street and Big investors happy with big returns. If Carnival were to only bump their fare by the $70pp as suggested, it would make their earnings take about a 9% hit. That would be suicide. So, if they were to include the tips it would hurt their attractiveness to investors. So, to avoid that, they would have to charge you $100pp to cover costs, additional costs, and to avoid corporate suicide. The reason they couldn't do that, see Marketing.

So, tipping is a fact of life. Please tip accordingly when expected.

[Cuizer2]

[quote name='GoinCruisin']The service sector consists of MANY different industries... tipping applies to CERTAIN service sector industries, not all. There are alot of professions that fall into this category, doesn't mean all of them are paid the same way ;) Ted Turner is in the service industry, I'm sure nobody tips him :rolleyes:[/quote]

I agree. I wish it was that way for everyone, not just a select few.

Why are some industries laying off people while at the same time giving their CEOs a big raise? It would be nice if the people worrying about when their country club membership was due would take some time to worry about the people who are worried about how they are going to put food on the plate AND buy the kids the clothing they need for the winter.

[Cuizer2]

[quote=Hojo's redbeard]I'm not going to beat a dead horse and repeat things mentioned previously. Hopefully people reading this thread that have not worked in the service industry (where tipping is the norm) have a new enlightenment about some things they didn't know before (ie., tips are paid by the server to support staff at a fixed percentage no matter what you left them, and that those servers are paid next to nothing!).

Now for a different perspective and an exclamation as to why the $2000/$2140 example will stay as is. There are two big reasons why. Marketing and Financial Performance.

1-Marketing. In the psychology of comparison shopping, you want to have the lowest perceived price. So, add on fees help make up the lower up front cost.

2-Financial Performance. Large Corporations have to keep Wall Street and Big investors happy with big returns. If Carnival were to only bump their fare by the $70pp as suggested, it would make their earnings take about a 9% hit. That would be suicide. So, if they were to include the tips it would hurt their attractiveness to investors. So, to avoid that, they would have to charge you $100pp to cover costs, additional costs, and to avoid corporate suicide. The reason they couldn't do that, see Marketing.

So, tipping is a fact of life. Please tip accordingly when expected.[/quote]

Unfortuately I have to agree with this. But just because I agree does not mean I like it.

[CTMak]

Cruizer 2:

Seriously dude, you may want to lighten up a bit ... just a suggestion. Clearly you get the fact that tipping is common and accepted practice in a variety of occupations because you said you tip regularly. But the intensity with which you condemn the practice, man, is it really that big a deal for you. You may want to channel that into more important ventures like why can't the peoples of the world all just get along.

You lose me on 2 points:

1. Tip vs Gift. I leave $25 for my newspaper guy at Christmas. Wouldn't know him if I ran him over. Is that a tip or a gift? On second thought, why the hell does it even matter. That's where you lose me.

2. Bribe vs tip. How giving a room steward on a cruise ship a few extra bucks equates to a bribe that could lead to criminal charges ... well I just can't connect the dots on that one. You mentioned you are in the financial services industry and have given back ( and reported) tips and/or bribes. Don't know what you do, but if you tend bar in a joint where bankers hang out or drive a Wall St. limo, you may want to rethink your policy.

(Please: No need to clarify points 1 & 2 above. I really, really don't need to know.)

One other thing: You said early on that, "you don;t tip your doctor, or policeman or plumber..." something to that effect. It's not all it seems there either. My brother gives his Urologist a dozen company golf balls each year at his check-up; the doctor gives him sample packs of Viagra (really); my grandmother owned a Bar & Grille in New York City when I was a kid. At Christmas the beat cops got tips from every shopkeeper in the precinct; last 12/23 my furnace broke. No heat. I have a service contract and 2 guys came out spent 2 hours and fixed it. I gave them $20 each.

My main point is that there are plenty of other issues to get your blood pressure up. Chill a bit. Why not relax and order a cocktail. Just don't forget to tip the barkeep.

CTMak

[berryberry]

[quote name='estherhead'] It really isn't anyone's business who and what you tip. [/QUOTE]

this is the most sensible statement on this thread.

[Cuizer2]

[quote name='CTMak']Cruizer 2:

Seriously dude, you may want to lighten up a bit ... just a suggestion. Clearly you get the fact that tipping is common and accepted practice in a variety of occupations because you said you tip regularly. But the intensity with which you condemn the practice, man, is it really that big a deal for you. You may want to channel that into more important ventures like why can't the peoples of the world all just get along.

You lose me on 2 points:

1. Tip vs Gift. I leave $25 for my newspaper guy at Christmas. Wouldn't know him if I ran him over. Is that a tip or a gift? On second thought, why the hell does it even matter. That's where you lose me.

2. Bribe vs tip. How giving a room steward on a cruise ship a few extra bucks equates to a bribe that could lead to criminal charges ... well I just can't connect the dots on that one. You mentioned you are in the financial services industry and have given back ( and reported) tips and/or bribes. Don't know what you do, but if you tend bar in a joint where bankers hang out or drive a Wall St. limo, you may want to rethink your policy.

(Please: No need to clarify points 1 & 2 above. I really, really don't need to know.)

One other thing: You said early on that, "you don;t tip your doctor, or policeman or plumber..." something to that effect. It's not all it seems there either. My brother gives his Urologist a dozen company golf balls each year at his check-up; the doctor gives him sample packs of Viagra (really); my grandmother owned a Bar & Grille in New York City when I was a kid. At Christmas the beat cops got tips from every shopkeeper in the precinct; last 12/23 my furnace broke. No heat. I have a service contract and 2 guys came out spent 2 hours and fixed it. I gave them $20 each.

My main point is that there are plenty of other issues to get your blood pressure up. Chill a bit. Why not relax and order a cocktail. Just don't forget to tip the barkeep.

CTMak[/quote]
Don't ask me a question then expect me not to answer.

1) A tip is something given for a service performed. A gift is given without the need to do anything to earn it. Usually gifts are given for special occasions (birthday, Christmas ...).

2) You can tip the room steward all you want. That is legal. Giving a tip to a police office could (and should) be interpreted as a bribe. Don't do it. In my case, offering me money after I have paid you a substantial amount of money would look like a kickback. That would result in the money being returned, and most likely the end of it. Offering me a kick back (a percentage of the money I paid you) would be seen as fraud. That is illegal. Any substantial gift to me would be seen as an attempt to bribe.

I have a lot of influence on how much people are paid by my employer. In one case a $100 was put in my pocket. I reported it via my cell phone. I wanted to leave the place right then and there. My supervisor said no. I mailed the $100 back to the person who gave it to me. An internal investigation was done. He admitted the reason he gave me the money was he hoped I would send some business his way. That was the first bribe I ever received. The next time someone wanted to talk to me in private I had my hands in my pocket in such a way that nothing was getting into either my hands or my pockets. I had to say no at least five times, but I walked out of that place with the same amount of money I walked in with. And I reported what happened. I had someone offer to split any additional amount I wanted to add with me. Nothing additional was added and I reported it. Those are three examples of why I left field work and went back inside. But even inside people are sometimes offered bribes. Usually by people who want to get paid, but don't deserve any money. And yes, I know how to write things up so that someone looks like they should get paid more or less than they deserve. My credibility is high with my employer because I present my cases fairly. People who I don't want to pay get paid because I present their case fairly, even though I don't want to. And some people, who I would like to pay, don't get paid because I present their case fairly also.

3) Giving out something that anyone can have is not a tip. So a pen with the company's name on it, or a golf ball with the company's name on it, is seen as a promotion (advertising) and that is legal. "Tipping" a cop can been seen as a bribe and could get both the store owner and the cop in hot water real fast. Most professionals would be insulted if you gave them a tip. Try tipping the captain of the ship after your next cruise and see what happens. However, if you are friends and you give the captain a gift, he can accept that.

As to your first question, yes, it bothers me that I have to tip someone to do their job. This results from some very unfortunate experiences in New York. In one case by the time I got my food the food was cold. However, the waiter made a point of pointing out that the check only covered the food, not his service. I acknowledged that fact, and left a zero tip. Same trip, the bell hop jumped on the bus and demanded a tip, leaving only when it was pointed out to him that the tip was included in the bill (it was). His reply, "I just wanted to make sure you took care of me."

If some of these people would put more effort into earning the tip then trying to collect it, they might find their tips are bigger. There is a waitress in a restaurant that I rarely go to who remembers me. I don't know if it is because she has a good memory, or because she provides above average service and in return receives an above average tip from me and thus wants to remember me. Either way, the first time she served me she did not know I would leave a better tip for better service, but I did. And I never felt that she was looking for a tip from me. There was room steward who I rarely saw, but could tell she was doing a great job keeping my cabin clean. At the end of the cruise I made sure she knew I noticed (I gave her an extra amount equal to about 50% more than standard). I never felt she was looking for a better tip from me, but she got it. I'll bet both of these people would do a great job if they received a better salary and no tips. Some people just take pride in doing a good job. Those are the people I enjoy tipping, not the ones who are doing what they are doing because they expect a tip.

However, I am not going to punish someone who has no control over the system simply because I don't agree with the system. If the service is great, but the food is bad, I still tip. If the food is great, but the service is bad, I reduce my tip. I have even walked out of places because after a long time all I got was, "I'll be right with you." Not even any water. If the waitress was that busy, she did not need me. Turns out it was always busy when that waitress worked. Her inability to do her job kept people in the restaurant longer. Same restaurant, different day of the week, different waitress, better service. So, I only go on Tuesday, when the good waitress is there.

[GoinCruisin]

CTMak!! Ya had to ask didn't ya!! :rolleyes: I've reached my quota of reading today :D

[CTMak]

Cruizer 2:

Thanks for clearing it up for me. Makes sense. Let me see if I got it:

You wrote:

"1) A tip is something given for a service performed. A gift is given without the need to do anything to earn it. Usually gifts are given for special occasions (birthday, Christmas ...)."

So if I go to a restaurant and it happens to be the waiter's birthday (special occasion) and I get lousy service (did not to anything to earn a tip) but I leave extra money anyway, then that is a gift not a tip. I'm OK with that. Got it.

You wrote:

"In one case a $100 was put in my pocket. I reported it via my cell phone. I wanted to leave the place right then and there. My supervisor said no. I mailed the $100 back to the person who gave it to me." And "offering me money after I have paid you a substantial amount of money would look like a kickback."

So, if I slip $100 into the pocket of my Carnival room steward, that's a no-no. And if he finds the money, thinks it's too much (or that I made a mistake perhaps thinking I wanted to give him only $10), and offers to give me some back, that's a kickback.

So I won't be giving any $100 bills out. But if I do and he offers to return it I will report him for a kickback. Maybe a little walk the plank action.

You Wrote:

"Try tipping the captain of the ship after your next cruise and see what happens. However, if you are friends and you give the captain a gift, he can accept that."

But if I met the captain a few times and gave him a "gift" that's ok. But if one of the reasons was he "earned" it by steering around bad weather or holding the ship an extra 15 minutes at a port because I was stuck in traffic, then that would be a tip according to your definition. But then that's bad, right? And if he offers to give the money back to me, well that could be a kickback. Do they have a brig on Carnival ships????

You wrote:

"Same restaurant, different day of the week, different waitress, better service. So, I only go on Tuesday, when the good waitress is there."

You said the good waitress remembers you. Is it because she only works one day a week on Tuesday so it's easier for her to remember you? And what's up with this one day work week. She must make really good tips.

Cruizer 2 you convinced me: this tipping business is a lot more complicated than I ever imagined. And to think all these years I simply tipped normally and never thought twice about it. Wow, hard to believe huh?

Well, now that I'm really stressed about it I think I'll go down the street and order that cocktail I suggested for you. But do I leave a tip or a gift. If the bartender gives me change, is that a kickback......


CTMak

[Cuizer2]

Cruizer 2:

 

Thanks for clearing it up for me. Makes sense. Let me see if I got it:

 

You wrote:

 

"1) A tip is something given for a service performed. A gift is given without the need to do anything to earn it. Usually gifts are given for special occasions (birthday, Christmas ...)."

 

So if I go to a restaurant and it happens to be the waiter's birthday (special occasion) and I get lousy service (did not to anything to earn a tip) but I leave extra money anyway, then that is a gift not a tip. I'm OK with that. Got it.

 

You wrote:

 

"In one case a $100 was put in my pocket. I reported it via my cell phone. I wanted to leave the place right then and there. My supervisor said no. I mailed the $100 back to the person who gave it to me." And "offering me money after I have paid you a substantial amount of money would look like a kickback."

 

So, if I slip $100 into the pocket of my Carnival room steward, that's a no-no. And if he finds the money, thinks it's too much (or that I made a mistake perhaps thinking I wanted to give him only $10), and offers to give me some back, that's a kickback.

 

So I won't be giving any $100 bills out. But if I do and he offers to return it I will report him for a kickback. Maybe a little walk the plank action.

 

You Wrote:

 

"Try tipping the captain of the ship after your next cruise and see what happens. However, if you are friends and you give the captain a gift, he can accept that."

 

But if I met the captain a few times and gave him a "gift" that's ok. But if one of the reasons was he "earned" it by steering around bad weather or holding the ship an extra 15 minutes at a port because I was stuck in traffic, then that would be a tip according to your definition. But then that's bad, right? And if he offers to give the money back to me, well that could be a kickback. Do they have a brig on Carnival ships????

 

You wrote:

 

"Same restaurant, different day of the week, different waitress, better service. So, I only go on Tuesday, when the good waitress is there."

 

You said the good waitress remembers you. Is it because she only works one day a week on Tuesday so it's easier for her to remember you? And what's up with this one day work week. She must make really good tips.

 

Cruizer 2 you convinced me: this tipping business is a lot more complicated than I ever imagined. And to think all these years I simply tipped normally and never thought twice about it. Wow, hard to believe huh?

 

Well, now that I'm really stressed about it I think I'll go down the street and order that cocktail I suggested for you. But do I leave a tip or a gift. If the bartender gives me change, is that a kickback......

 

 

CTMak

1) Give the waiter whatever tip or gift you want.

2) You can give the room steward whatever amount you want. If you give me a tip, I would consider it a bribe and I would report it as such.

3) Go ahead and tip the captain if you want. See what happens.

4) You are mixing up the waitresses at two different restaurants. The one on Tuesday remembers me because I am there about 40 times per year. The one at the restaurant that I visit only about 4 times per year remembered me. I don't know why. It could be because she has a very good memory, or it could be because I left a tip that was above average to match the service I received.

5) While you are at it, give the local police a large tip. I would love to find out how they react. Better yet, wait until you get pulled over for speeding, then give the police a tip, or a gift, for doing such a good job of patrolling the streets. Then let us know how that goes, I would to here if that improves the service the police are providing.

[zqvol]

1) Give the waiter whatever tip or gift you want.

2) You can give the room steward whatever amount you want. If you give me a tip, I would consider it a bribe and I would report it as such.

3) Go ahead and tip the captain if you want. See what happens.

4) You are mixing up the waitresses at two different restaurants. The one on Tuesday remembers me because I am there about 40 times per year. The one at the restaurant that I visit only about 4 times per year remembered me. I don't know why. It could be because she has a very good memory, or it could be because I left a tip that was above average to match the service I received.

5) While you are at it, give the local police a large tip. I would love to find out how they react. Better yet, wait until you get pulled over for speeding, then give the police a tip, or a gift, for doing such a good job of patrolling the streets. Then let us know how that goes, I would to here if that improves the service the police are providing.

Cruizer2 either cannot or will not reveal the nature of his work. I respect that, and it is clear that in his line of work that people are not provide with gratuities because if nothing else it creates an appearance of impropriety, and according to him/her may be illegal.

 

Let's be reasonable, NO ONE in their right mind would think that trying to give an officer money while he is giving you a ticket is anything but an attempted bribe. You are comparing apples to cows.

 

This discussion is way off topic. It should deal with appropriate gratuities on a cruise ship.

[billyandted]

We are a group of 13 including 2 teens & 2 5/6 year olds.

We have budgeted for the full tip for each of us & will add to that if we feel that a special effort has been made by any of the staff.

It would take a Major Goof-Up to have us remove the "basic bottom line" amount.

We are all so lucky because not only are we Cruisers but apparently we have computers & time to converse & learn from one another.

Let's share! :)

[BlueHerons]

Cruizer2 either cannot or will not reveal the nature of his work. I respect that, and it is clear that in his line of work that people are not provide with gratuities because if nothing else it creates an appearance of impropriety, and according to him/her may be illegal.

 

.

 

I guessed from what cruizer wrote that he/she works in the money pen in a casino.

[CTMak]

zqvol:

 

You are absolutely right of course -- but that's the whole point. It's hysterical! The transition from should you tip fully for children to bribing police officers and kickbacks in the financial services industry -- with such passion no less -- equals loads of entertainment.

 

CTMak

[flynrph]

....has worked for an employer with a CIA. Corporate Integrity Agreement. Often foisted upon a company coming out of bankrupcy or got into trouble of some variety. Go easy on the posters who work in these environments, they catch a lot of hell over tips/bribes/kickbacks/gifts/winks/nods/handshakes. Those are hellish conditions when only "thank you" is allowed, and anything else is suspect. (let's see, what year is this? 1984 or......)

[Umbarger]

I must admit we did not tip the full amount for our children because it was simply too costly.

 

If you can afford to pay $7000 for your cruise you can afford tipping for your children.

[pickpart2]

Wow.

When you go out to eat your tip is based on your total bill, not just the portion of the bill the adults eat. Furthermore have you ever seen the mess under a table after some children have left? I would say MORE tipping is in order. Add up the cost if your family went out to eat three meals a day and paying 15-20 % tip. I bet it will be ALOT more then 10.00 per person and we have not even added in the room service, bag service or 2 times daily cabin stuart.

[Cuizer2]

Wow.

When you go out to eat your tip is based on your total bill, not just the portion of the bill the adults eat. Furthermore have you ever seen the mess under a table after some children have left? I would say MORE tipping is in order. Add up the cost if your family went out to eat three meals a day and paying 15-20 % tip. I bet it will be ALOT more then 10.00 per person and we have not even added in the room service, bag service or 2 times daily cabin stuart.

 

It is true that this is the standard way of figuring a tip. However, if two people share the same table and each asks for a separate check. One orders a $32 steak and the other an $8 hamburger, is the one getting the $32 steak getting four times the service? Tips should not be based not the cost of the meal, even though that is how it is traditionally done.

[The Staff Captain]

Greetings! For one, I don't believe there are any well-behaved children between 6-11, and my brother, sister and I certainly weren't either when we went cruising with my mother in the past.:cool: If anything, your team of servers will have that much more work to do throughout the week cleaning after your children. My mother always went somewhat beyond the recommended tip for each server each cruise. I'm glad she did...I know they greatly deserved it! I hope you do too...that tip will show you appreciate their extra effort! Happy sailing! :)

[jckvpa0]

Greetings! For one, I don't believe there are any well-behaved children between 6-11,

 

OMG, they all of a sudden become well behaved children at twelve , well I just know my children missed that memo :eek: !

[Cuizer2]

OMG, they all of a sudden become well behaved children at twelve , well I just know my children missed that memo :eek: !

 

The topic is tipping for children. Most agree that children twelve and over should tip the full amount. So the question then is, how much to tip for children under the age of twelve. Some believe the tip should be the same regardless of age. Some believe you should tip more for children under the age of twelve. Some believe that the standard tip for a child under the age of twelve should 50% of the adult tip. No one has commented on how much should be tipped for children over the age of 18 (in other words, adults that act like children).

[jckvpa0]

The topic is tipping for children. Most agree that children twelve and over should tip the full amount. So the question then is, how much to tip for children under the age of twelve. Some believe the tip should be the same regardless of age. Some believe you should tip more for children under the age of twelve. Some believe that the standard tip for a child under the age of twelve should 50% of the adult tip. No one has commented on how much should be tipped for children over the age of 18 (in other words, adults that act like children).

 

I knew what the topic was & was appalled that the Op thought is was to costly to tip for their children!

IMHO I believe you should at the very least tip the same amount for a child if not more!

[berryberry]

Wow.

When you go out to eat your tip is based on your total bill, not just the portion of the bill the adults eat. Furthermore have you ever seen the mess under a table after some children have left? I would say MORE tipping is in order. Add up the cost if your family went out to eat three meals a day and paying 15-20 % tip. I bet it will be ALOT more then 10.00 per person and we have not even added in the room service, bag service or 2 times daily cabin stuart.

 

Quite frankly using that analogy would support tipping less for children - because at most restaurants, most kids eat off a childrens menu which is a much lower cost.