Braemar turned away from Dominican Republic

[tring]

25 minutes ago, IB2 said:

Of course not.  Weren’t you listening?

 

I get the message - thanks to all.  It looks like my inability to understand Boris's mutterings is not something others suffer from.  I also have particular difficulty understanding some foreign accents yet my husband can and does not understand why I do not.  Had a hearing test fairly recently so must be more a matter of stupidity - perhaps I can blame the age 🙂

 

Thanks for the particular advice Lottie - we will wait until it is published and see what Fred says. 

 

Edit:-  The advice is already on the FCO website.  If anyone else wants to see it is on this link:-

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/cruise-ship-travel

Edited March 12, 2020 by tring

[pinkpanther52]

Looks like you can now have the chance to switch to a later Cruise in certain circumstances.

 

If your cruise is before the end of May and you are under 70 to any other cruise this year or if you are over 70 any 2020 to one in 2020/21/22.

 

Sorry do not know now to post a link when on my phone 

 

Jackie

[Lottie A]

Spain has now closed its ports to all cruise ships until March 26th but of course it is likely to be much longer.
 

Soon there will be nowhere for ships to go. It’s not impossible to think that the cruising industry will shut down for 2/3 months anymore. 

[IB2]

6 minutes ago, Lottie A said:

Spain has now closed its ports to all cruise ships until March 26th but of course it is likely to be much longer.
 

Soon there will be nowhere for ships to go. It’s not impossible to think that the cruising industry will shut down for 2/3 months anymore. 

That is precisely what is almost certain to happen.

 

If not for most of 2020.

[Lottie A]

Braemar  has now been denied berthing at The Bahamas due to the Covid-19 positive passengers and crew onboard the ship. Sadly I expected this and I'm not sure if any Caribbean island would take the risk of letting passengers disembark the ship on their island now. 

 

If they had headed home across the Atlantic they would be half way here by now. As it is, they are sailing around The Caribbean with nowhere to go. I feel very sorry for the unfortunate passengers and crew onboard. 

[rabidstoat]

Ministry of Transport statement on the denial:

 

"The Braemar cruise ship carrying five persons who have tested positive for the COVID-19 coronavirus will not be permitted to dock in The Bahamas and passengers and crew will not be allowed to disembark. This decision is based on consideration for the protection of the health and safety of the Bahamian people and residents of The Bahamas. The Bahamas Maritime Authority (BMA) has been in constant communication with the owners of the Braemer, which is a Bahamas-flagged ship. The BMA has reaffirmed to the Braemar that should it arrive in Bahamian waters, The Bahamas will do all that it can to provide humanitarian assistance. This may include providing fuel, food, water and other supplies as needed by the vessel. The BMA continues to monitor the well-being of passengers and crew with updates at regular intervals. Our thoughts and prayers continue to be with the people who have contracted the coronavirus and who are at immediate risk.”"

[Pentlands]

2 hours ago, pinkpanther52 said:

Looks like you can now have the chance to switch to a later Cruise in certain circumstances.

 

If your cruise is before the end of May and you are under 70 to any other cruise this year or if you are over 70 any 2020 to one in 2020/21/22.

 

Sorry do not know now to post a link when on my phone 

 

Jackie

 

 

"Boris Johnson said anyone over 70-years-old and those with serious medical conditions should avoid going on a cruise holiday. What is your view on this?
We take our guests’ health extremely seriously. On Thursday, the Prime Minister recommended that anyone over 70 and those with a serious medical condition should not take a cruise holiday. In light of that, any of our guests aged 70 or above can swap their 2020 booking to any future Fred. Olsen cruise currently on sale (as long as you give us 48 hours’ notice)."

https://www.fredolsencruises.com/faqs/health-safety/coronavirus--your-questions-answered

Edited March 12, 2020 by Pentlands

[tring]

2 hours ago, pinkpanther52 said:

Looks like you can now have the chance to switch to a later Cruise in certain circumstances.

 

If your cruise is before the end of May and you are under 70 to any other cruise this year or if you are over 70 any 2020 to one in 2020/21/22.

 

Sorry do not know now to post a link when on my phone 

 

Jackie

 

I think this is the link you were looking at:-

 

https://www.fredolsencruises.com/travel-confidence

 

The advice says cruising is not advised at this time (or similar wording) so not clear how long in the future that applies to - perhaps just one month initially and then will proceed to later dates on a rolling basis.

 

I do have access to good consumer advice and if you are 70 or over you will not be insured as policies do not insure anything which is advised against by the FCO, which cruising is now.  You will be entitled to a full refund, but it is not entirely clear at present if that will be from Fred or your insurance company, so no point in transferring if you do not get any extra benefit and it would also depend if Fred still exists.

 

I do not mean to be pessimistic, but realistically Fred could go down along with many other companies in the next few months, though I hope not.  One thing I would not accept under any circumstances is any sort of future cruise voucher as people who had paid with vouchers for Thomas Cook holidays lost their money when the company went bust, as they were not worth anything.  They needed to show they had used money to pay for a holiday.  With a cash refund, you will have a chance to re book in the future at your leisure.

Edited March 13, 2020 by tring

[tring]

11 minutes ago, Pentlands said:

This is not what the FO site says, it offers anyone over 70 on their 2020 cruise, so not limited, as far as I can see, to May.

 

"Boris Johnson said anyone over 70-years-old and those with serious medical conditions should avoid going on a cruise holiday. What is your view on this?
We take our guests’ health extremely seriously. On Thursday, the Prime Minister recommended that anyone over 70 and those with a serious medical condition should not take a cruise holiday. In light of that, any of our guests aged 70 or above can swap their 2020 booking to any future Fred. Olsen cruise currently on sale (as long as you give us 48 hours’ notice)."

https://www.fredolsencruises.com/faqs/health-safety/coronavirus--your-questions-answered

 

Please see my previous post.  The advice is not to cruise at this time, so end of May sounds very generous. When FCO advise against travel, (e.g. Sri Lanka last year) insurance companies generally take the next month as applicable for refunds, but will apply to later dates on a rolling basis if the advice remains in place.

Edited March 13, 2020 by tring

[tring]

Fred put a notification on his site last night saying he is still discussing possibility of disembarking passengers in Bahamas, so not an outright no it seems:-   https://www.fredolsencruises.com/braemar-update  

 

Another important update -  AXA insurance will no longer cover new bookings for cancellation or disruption cover due to Coronavirus.  Likely other insurers are doing the same thing, hence perhaps not the time to make any new bookings, even if transferring from another holiday.  There has been talk of a second wave being possible, so even next year could be iffy, unless a vaccine is widely available and sounds as though that not likely until the middle of next year.

 

I wish good health to all

[Lottie A]

About time Fred. Now I hope Azamara will do the same.
 

Not sure how those poor passengers on Braemar are going to get home though when seemingly every port in the Caribbean is closed to them. Oh wait....they are on a big ship that can sail them home. http://media.fredolsencruises.com/news/fred-olsen-cruise-lines-voluntarily-pauses-departures-until-23rd-may-2020-397075?fbclid=IwAR1xJIPSUpGippbSCGT3yk0UjKUcspNlvkwQKKoO758ATjefKCroj1uat9I

 

[pinkpanther52]

 A very sensible and brave decision made by Fred.

 

I applaud them now and assuming everything plays out with refunds they now have a loyal customer 

 

Lottie your voice of reason has been great on this forum and I truly hope you get a refund from Azamara 😌

[Lottie A]

7 minutes ago, pinkpanther52 said:

 A very sensible and brave decision made by Fred.

 

I applaud them now and assuming everything plays out with refunds they now have a loyal customer 

 

Lottie your voice of reason has been great on this forum and I truly hope you get a refund from Azamara 😌

Thanks pinkpanther52 and I have always appreciated your well stated points of view too, even though we do not always agree. 😀

 

I think Fred have done the right thing and it will be paid back in future loyalty from their passengers. I know I will be booking with them again as soon as this pandemic is under control....but sadly, I think we are talking at least 6 months for that to happen. 

 

 

[pinkpanther52]

Thanks Lottie 😀

 

P.s. Like your Avatar 

Edited March 13, 2020 by pinkpanther52

[tring]

We had a couple of short Fred cruises booked over the next month or so and our agents called this afternoon to inform of the situation (which we knew about) and say Fred would be in contact.  Got an email from Fred an hour or so ago to say we can transfer or claim a refund by email.  We will claim a refund.  We have another round UK cruise booked with CMV for July.  They have announced a suspension until 24th April, but we also think these suspensions will become rolling events for a while so will wait and see.

 

Now all the fast moving events seem to be convening at the same point I feel rather somber about it all.  Seems very sad regards many things, not least of which being the health issues of course.  There will be very little travel of any kind for a while - strange how such microscopic items can have such a rapid effect on what many lobby groups and a young Swedish girl had been battling for some time.  Also takes some reflection on our current society being so dominated by finance - we think of ourselves as a well organised society, yet amazing the effect this will have, albeit a time limited one.

 

Lotte - from what you have said I assume you are still working in the health service, so do hope the work of you and your colleagues is manageable over the next few months, though obviously far from easy, and that you remain well.

 

Fred's latest update on Braemar is that he was still talking to the Bahamas with the support of the UK government, UK Chamber of Shipping and Public Heath England.  No mention of illness levels on the ship and I have not seen any other reports of that.  It can take up to 10 days sailing back from the Eastern Caribbean, so missing 2 or 3 ports would only save about a day, so hope all is well during that time whether the passengers are still on board or not.  Strange to think it was only Tuesday when they were docked in Curacao in the more westerly Caribbean and all this started.

https://www.fredolsencruises.com/braemar-update 

 

I do not think we will cruise as much in the future - we were returning to more land based holiday plans previously, but I wish you all good luck re refunds (or whatever) and good health over the next few months.  May well meet up on a ship somewhere in the future and it may be a Fred one,

 

Barbara 

Edited March 13, 2020 by tring

[seapals2]

6 hours ago, Lottie A said:

About time Fred. Now I hope Azamara will do the same.
 

Not sure how those poor passengers on Braemar are going to get home though when seemingly every port in the Caribbean is closed to them. Oh wait....they are on a big ship that can sail them home. http://media.fredolsencruises.com/news/fred-olsen-cruise-lines-voluntarily-pauses-departures-until-23rd-may-2020-397075?fbclid=IwAR1xJIPSUpGippbSCGT3yk0UjKUcspNlvkwQKKoO758ATjefKCroj1uat9I

 

The problems will lie in how many passengers get seriously ill.  With limited medical facilities and probably no ventilators.  Given there has been no isolation of the majority of guests we can only assume that many would already test positive.  Those numbers increasing daily.  Figures at present suggest 15% of people who contract the virus become critical and mostly elderly.  Think the ship is carrying around 600 passengers so assuming 70% get infected that could be a considerable number critical.  
The ship could arrive back at Southampton with many needing hospitalisation.  Hospitals would struggle to cope with a sudden surge of cases.  The best outcome has to be a quick repatriation and hopefully the UK gov is in discussion now.  
Passengers onboard being given no information with regard to new cases.  Just the buffet now not serving food but that just means everybody has to eat in the dining rooms.  Open sitting which probably is intended to make sure passengers sit at different tables each meal time and get different wait staff.  This is a nightmare situation.  A lot of very worried passengers, family and friends hoping to hear some good news very soon. 
 

[tring]

A new update from Fred:-   https://www.fredolsencruises.com/braemar-update

[Lottie A]

So glad that Braemar has been allowed to take on essential supplies from 25 miles off the coast of The Bahamas. That’s really “at sea”  though isn’t it and not on land in The Bahamas. Flying out extra medical and nursing staff is a good idea too. The crew on Braemar must be exhausted. 

Still no firm news of how they propose to get the passengers home though. Discussions are all very good but realistically no Caribbean island is going to allow potentially Covid-19 infected passengers to disembark the ship. I’m also beginning to have serious doubts about the accuracy of the infection figures emerging from Fred Olsen too. 
 

I am very sorry for the passengers trapped on Braemar. It could have been me, as I was seriously thinking of booking that cruise. In the end we decided on Black Watch and had a wonderful cruise a few weeks ago. Sadly I don’t think any of us will be cruising in the next 3 months or so. 

[Lottie A]

Further news just out. 

It has been confirmed that 5 people from the St Maarten - Manchester flight of March 2nd and also 3 people from the St Maarten - Gatwick flight have now tested positive for Covid-19. They are now in enforced isolation. Two more passengers from the Gatwick flight have reported symptoms, but since testing has now been stopped by the Government we might never know. 
They are still awaiting a number of previous test results from both flights.
 

These figures have been confirmed by Public Health England. 

There are also more passengers on Braemar who have symptoms now and have been isolated in their cabins awaiting testing. Their relatives must be so worried. 

 

[tring]

46 minutes ago, Lottie A said:

Further news just out. 

It has been confirmed that 5 people from the St Maarten - Manchester flight of March 2nd and also 3 people from the St Maarten - Gatwick flight have now tested positive for Covid-19. They are now in enforced isolation. Two more passengers from the Gatwick flight have reported symptoms, but since testing has now been stopped by the Government we might never know. 
They are still awaiting a number of previous test results from both flights.
 

These figures have been confirmed by Public Health England. 

There are also more passengers on Braemar who have symptoms now and have been isolated in their cabins awaiting testing. Their relatives must be so worried. 

 

 

Thanks for the update, sad news but was, I suspect, only to be expected.  The flights were 11/12 days ago now so hopefully there may not be any rise in numbers from them.  Though those with mild/no symptoms would have never shown in the number anyway. 

 

 

If there are more sick passengers in their cabins since they docked in Curacao, it does seem likely the numbers of crew infected could have gone up even more, given that more crew tested positive than passengers then and they live in much more crowded conditions.  Perhaps being younger they will be more likely to not have noticeable symptoms and hence are still cooking, serving food and drinks and cleaning cabins, and that will be the case whether passengers remain in the cabins or not.

 

I also wonder how long the virus has been circulating on the ship and if some crew/long stay passengers may have had it unknowingly and be immune already.

   

Edited March 14, 2020 by tring

[Lottie A]

So sorry to say it’s not looking good on Braemar. Still at least the passengers now have free booze! 
 

https://www.fredolsencruises.com/braemar-update

[tring]

1 hour ago, Lottie A said:

So sorry to say it’s not looking good on Braemar. Still at least the passengers now have free booze! 
 

https://www.fredolsencruises.com/braemar-update

 

Thanks for the update Lotte, just read it.

 

Not too sure about free booze!  Would have been better placing some sort of limit on it IMO.  Could be very tempting to 'hit the bottle' which will be a great way to "encourage guests to practice social distancing and other measures advised by Public Health England".  It appears they have only just closed the evening entertainment venues, which is a bit mad IMO, though advice from Public Health England is probably taking into account the whole picture.  I would not be surprised if they have some social unrest on the ship if they have stay on for another 10 days or so, despite the normal relaxed and polite manner of the majority of Fred people.  It only takes a couple of people to stir things up and of course stress can have quite an effect on personalities.

 

The whole world seems to have gone mad.

 

With your medical background, do you know of any estimate for % people who do not show symptoms or are so slight it is hardly noticeable?

  

I hope they are OK though,

 

Barbara

Edited March 15, 2020 by tring

[Lottie A]

No Barbara I don’t.

 

I think it’s medically very likely that many more cases onboard will become evident in the next 7 days, given that Fred allowed open access throughout the ship since the previous cruise passengers disembarked. Some may have a slight infection themselves...mostly the younger crew,  but they will carry on infecting the more vulnerable elderly passengers unless everyone is quarantined to their cabin. The doctors and nurses onboard must be totally exhausted and it seems that the doctor has now reported Covid-19 symptoms himself. Goodness knows how many elderly passengers he has been in contact with! 

 

Fred should have quarantined everyone at least a week ago. They also should have sailed Braemar back to the U.K. They would be home now with access to the NHS if they had done that. Other companies are sailing their ships home from all over the world and it’s patently obvious that Braemar is not going to be allowed to debark passengers anywhere right now. 
 

I’m also very sceptical that we are hearing the true numbers affected anyway. Also to embark these new passengers onto this current cruise after the infection was known to be present on the previous one was just foolish in my opinion.  
 

Wishing all the wonderful crew and the passengers onboard Braemar a safe journey home, however you get here.
 

Maybe they should use the free booze to disinfect their hands rather than drink it! 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Lottie A

[tring]

1 hour ago, Lottie A said:

No Barbara I don’t.

 

I think it’s medically very likely that many more cases onboard will become evident in the next 7 days, given that Fred allowed open access throughout the ship since the previous cruise passengers disembarked. Some may have a slight infection themselves...mostly the younger crew,  but they will carry on infecting the more vulnerable elderly passengers unless everyone is quarantined to their cabin. The doctors and nurses onboard must be totally exhausted and it seems that the doctor has now reported Covid-19 symptoms himself. Goodness knows how many elderly passengers he has been in contact with! 

 

Fred should have quarantined everyone at least a week ago. They also should have sailed Braemar back to the U.K. They would be home now with access to the NHS if they had done that. Other companies are sailing their ships home from all over the world and it’s patently obvious that Braemar is not going to be allowed to debark passengers anywhere right now. 
 

I’m also very sceptical that we are hearing the true numbers affected anyway. Also to embark these new passengers onto this current cruise after the infection was known to be present on the previous one was just foolish in my opinion.  
 

Wishing all the wonderful crew and the passengers onboard Braemar a safe journey home, however you get here.
 

Maybe they should use the free booze to disinfect their hands rather than drink it! 

 

 

When Boris announced that old people should not cruise he said it was possible that you can be confined to your cabin and then be higher risk of infection (or words to that effect).  So it appears that is the advice he is getting and hence why PHE have not advised confinement now, but I can see there are potential advantages in both so do not want to get into that now.  There is just a little bit of me that is thinking maybe some are already immune.  I dread to think what the worst case scenario will be if they have to stay on another 10 days and sounds like they need to wait for those supplies/extra medical staff, (which do not look like they are getting there quickly) before even setting off.

 

What had amazed me before the last embarkation is that there were people with some "flu" symptoms (which apparently had not been ID'd) yet they went ahead with it and even then headed off to the Western Caribbean which is about a three day sailing time one way.  I totally agree he should have brought Braemar home then.  I also could not believe that people had agreed to board and others wanted to stay on board for the next cruise.  I am sure everyone is now thinking that with hindsight.  The whole world we have seems to be totally governed by money and that penny pinching has resulted in the whole world in turmoil as well as in a far worse financial state.  Treatment of the NHS in recent years is also a problem, but populations in some countries will fare far worse - it is already in Africa.

 

I will also be hoping for the best result for all on board,

 

Barbara

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by tring

[Lottie A]

Some more news about poor Braemar. 
 

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/cruise-transatlantic-coronavirus-gbr-intl/index.html?fbclid=IwAR04sbmwe3vG6mUDRanjxIlgHUjCe4VVSPLGk7ni1MUtWjUT0vygV_c2VAQ