FL attorney general office complaint link

[dreamr]

9 hours ago, pokerpro5 said:

If airlines cancel your flight, you get a refund.

 

If the flight is still taking place but you no longer want to take it (because the thing you're flying for is no longer happening), the airline will not give a refund, but will change your flight without any fees.

 

Anyway, regarding NCL and their 90 day policy, anyone excusing this is foolish.  The "policy" doesn't matter.  It's your money, and they shouldn't be holding it for 3 months.

 

Charge it back on your credit card and you'll probably win.

 

I don't think NCL has the cash to refund everyone right now.  That's my guess as to what is really happening.

 

I hope that isn't directed at me. 😒

 

I understand the airline's normal policy regarding refunds. However, this is not a normal situation we are in, and in my opinion, they should be more willing to work with their customers. It's not like we all just suddenly had a change of heart and decided to change our plans and they know this. People are canceling their flights because they can no longer go where they were planning to go, either because of health reasons or the various travel bans that states are starting to enact. The airlines just don't seem to care and refuse to even offer refunds. That, to me, is more inexcusable.

 

While I am not excusing the cruise line for the refund delay, at least they are giving affected people the option. Not to mention allowing people to cancel their own cruises and rebook without penalties. Before you say that's also what the airlines are doing, NCL is giving us two and a half years to rebook while the airline is giving us a handful of months, when we have no idea if life will be back to normal that quickly.

[pokerpro5]

5 hours ago, dreamr said:

 

I hope that isn't directed at me. 😒

 

I understand the airline's normal policy regarding refunds. However, this is not a normal situation we are in, and in my opinion, they should be more willing to work with their customers. It's not like we all just suddenly had a change of heart and decided to change our plans and they know this. People are canceling their flights because they can no longer go where they were planning to go, either because of health reasons or the various travel bans that states are starting to enact. The airlines just don't seem to care and refuse to even offer refunds. That, to me, is more inexcusable.

 

While I am not excusing the cruise line for the refund delay, at least they are giving affected people the option. Not to mention allowing people to cancel their own cruises and rebook without penalties. Before you say that's also what the airlines are doing, NCL is giving us two and a half years to rebook while the airline is giving us a handful of months, when we have no idea if life will be back to normal that quickly.

 

The airlines aren't behaving very well, either.

 

NCL isn't allowing you to cancel and get a refund.  You only get a refund if they cancel on you.  If you cancel first, you only get that FCC.

 

They are giving you 2.5 years to use that FCC because they don't want you to use it now.  They want you to use it later when they're back on their feet.  They'd prefer their upcoming cruises are ones by new customers infusing them with more cash.

[dreamr]

21 hours ago, pokerpro5 said:

 

The airlines aren't behaving very well, either.

 

NCL isn't allowing you to cancel and get a refund.  You only get a refund if they cancel on you.  If you cancel first, you only get that FCC.

 

They are giving you 2.5 years to use that FCC because they don't want you to use it now.  They want you to use it later when they're back on their feet.  They'd prefer their upcoming cruises are ones by new customers infusing them with more cash.

 

Everyone has their own views about this situation, and there is no "right" view. Personally, NCL's motives (which are speculation at best, as none of us - as far as I'm aware - was in the room when the decisions were made) are of no importance to me. Their motives do not affect me. All that matters to me is that they are giving me two and a half years to rebook, meaning that if this situation takes much longer than we anticipate, we can rebook when we are more comfortable. The airlines are not doing that.

 

Regarding your theory about NCL preferring new customers over those of us with FCCs, then I don 't understand why they would offer us an additional 20% discount if we use our FCC within the next few weeks? That sounds to me like they do, in fact, want us to book quickly.

 

I will say again, I am not trying to "excuse" NCL, I'm simply saying that they are being more lenient than the airlines, and because of that, if I were going to file a complaint, I would be more inclined to do so against the airline before I did so against the cruise line.

[pokerpro5]

2 hours ago, dreamr said:

 

Everyone has their own views about this situation, and there is no "right" view. Personally, NCL's motives (which are speculation at best, as none of us - as far as I'm aware - was in the room when the decisions were made) are of no importance to me. Their motives do not affect me. All that matters to me is that they are giving me two and a half years to rebook, meaning that if this situation takes much longer than we anticipate, we can rebook when we are more comfortable. The airlines are not doing that.

 

Regarding your theory about NCL preferring new customers over those of us with FCCs, then I don 't understand why they would offer us an additional 20% discount if we use our FCC within the next few weeks? That sounds to me like they do, in fact, want us to book quickly.

 

I will say again, I am not trying to "excuse" NCL, I'm simply saying that they are being more lenient than the airlines, and because of that, if I were going to file a complaint, I would be more inclined to do so against the airline before I did so against the cruise line.

 

Go look at the prices of all future NCL cruises, and you'll understand why they are offering "20% discount if you book within the next few weeks".

 

They are trying to entice fools to burn their FCCs on super-inflated prices (ones that are high even with the 20% discount), while knowing that it's not driving away new business because almost nobody without FCCs is interested in booking a cruise right now.

 

These are very tough times for a lot of businesses -- large and small -- and unfortunately some of these business are acting unethically in order to stay afloat.

 

Stubhub is refusing to refund anyone for cancelled events, except in the 14 states where it is legally required.

 

Allegiant Air is issuing people a credit (NOT a refund) for cancelled and only agreeing to a refund if they complain (a negative checkoff scam).

 

NCL is pulling their own shenanigans, between the fake 20% discount (since the prices are super-inflated for this purpose), the default to FCC instead of a refund, the early cutoff date for a refund request, and the laughable 90-day refund timeframe.

 

It is not our responsibility to use our hard-earned (and now precious) dollars to keep these companies afloat by buying into their shady schemes to acquire cash.

 

The smart person would call up their credit card company immediately and dispute the NCL charge, getting the money back much quicker than 90 days.

[dreamr]

1 hour ago, pokerpro5 said:

 

Go look at the prices of all future NCL cruises, and you'll understand why they are offering "20% discount if you book within the next few weeks".

 

They are trying to entice fools to burn their FCCs on super-inflated prices (ones that are high even with the 20% discount), while knowing that it's not driving away new business because almost nobody without FCCs is interested in booking a cruise right now.

 

These are very tough times for a lot of businesses -- large and small -- and unfortunately some of these business are acting unethically in order to stay afloat.

 

Stubhub is refusing to refund anyone for cancelled events, except in the 14 states where it is legally required.

 

Allegiant Air is issuing people a credit (NOT a refund) for cancelled and only agreeing to a refund if they complain (a negative checkoff scam).

 

NCL is pulling their own shenanigans, between the fake 20% discount (since the prices are super-inflated for this purpose), the default to FCC instead of a refund, the early cutoff date for a refund request, and the laughable 90-day refund timeframe.

 

It is not our responsibility to use our hard-earned (and now precious) dollars to keep these companies afloat by buying into their shady schemes to acquire cash.

 

The smart person would call up their credit card company immediately and dispute the NCL charge, getting the money back much quicker than 90 days.

 

I guess I'm not smart then, because I have already used my FCC to book my next cruise, the price of which was about the same as what we paid for our canceled cruise. In fact, because the FCC was 125%, we actually have an additional $800 left to use on another one.

 

So I suppose we'll just have to say that we have had very different experiences and we have very different outlooks. 😉 

 

 

[pokerpro5]

2 hours ago, dreamr said:

 

I guess I'm not smart then, because I have already used my FCC to book my next cruise, the price of which was about the same as what we paid for our canceled cruise. In fact, because the FCC was 125%, we actually have an additional $800 left to use on another one.

 

So I suppose we'll just have to say that we have had very different experiences and we have very different outlooks. 😉 

 

 

 

Let's do a simple supply-and-demand exercise for a moment.

 

When cruising starts again, do you think there will be more or less demand for it, as compared to the same time in 2019?

 

There will be much, much, much, MUCH less demand.  Nearly everyone I know has stated they have no desire to get on a cruise ship for at least a few years, and perhaps they never will again.  There's even two cruise ships still stuck in the water and unable to find a port to accept them!  This is an absolute nightmare scenario for the industry.

 

With the demand MUCH less than before, and the supply of cruises the same, do you think they can get away with charging the same prices as before?

 

Obviously not.  The only way they will entice the public to  give cruising a chance again would be to give some spectacular deals, where people are willing to take a shot.

 

If you are paying the same thing for the next cruise compared to the one you had cancelled, you are getting an absolutely horrendous deal.

 

Oh, and if NCL can't run for a few more months and goes under, guess what happens to your FCC?  Poof, gone!

 

So yes, it's your money, and you can do what you want with it.  But if you think booking today for these inflated prices is the right play, rather than getting a refund, I don't know what to tell you.

[dreamr]

1 hour ago, pokerpro5 said:

 

Let's do a simple supply-and-demand exercise for a moment.

 

When cruising starts again, do you think there will be more or less demand for it, as compared to the same time in 2019?

 

There will be much, much, much, MUCH less demand.  Nearly everyone I know has stated they have no desire to get on a cruise ship for at least a few years, and perhaps they never will again.  There's even two cruise ships still stuck in the water and unable to find a port to accept them!  This is an absolute nightmare scenario for the industry.

 

With the demand MUCH less than before, and the supply of cruises the same, do you think they can get away with charging the same prices as before?

 

Obviously not.  The only way they will entice the public to  give cruising a chance again would be to give some spectacular deals, where people are willing to take a shot.

 

If you are paying the same thing for the next cruise compared to the one you had cancelled, you are getting an absolutely horrendous deal.

 

Oh, and if NCL can't run for a few more months and goes under, guess what happens to your FCC?  Poof, gone!

 

So yes, it's your money, and you can do what you want with it.  But if you think booking today for these inflated prices is the right play, rather than getting a refund, I don't know what to tell you.

 

While I'm assuming that I am younger than you, I am not a child. I do know how supply and demand works. I also know that everything you are saying is pure speculation and not fact. You may be basing it off of the theory of supply and demand or maybe even past experiences, but the fact is that we have no idea what the future is going to hold. These are unprecedented times we are in.

 

Maybe the prices will drop in a few months, who knows? If that happens, then I may do what most people on this forum usually do and call for a price adjustment or an upgrade. However, my point was to let you know that the cruise I booked was not "super-inflated," as you had claimed, but was comparable to what I paid last year. I was not intending to debate whether or not the price might drop at a later date.

 

Based on your replies to me, as well as your other posts in this forum, I can see that your mind is set that NCL is a bad guy whose sole purpose is to cheat everyone out of their money. I tend to think differently. I was excited about the trip I would have been on at this moment, and I am excited about the one I will (hopefully) be going on in November. If the price goes down, then so be it. That happens all the time anyway, crisis or not. I am happy with the price we paid and that does not make me a fool.

 

Besides, as I said in the beginning of this, we have airfare that we will lose if we don't use it. We can't just wait until next year to see if prices drop, which is why I am more annoyed with the airline than with NCL. The airline is forcing our hand, not NCL.

 

For that reason, I am now bowing out of this discussion. Good day, sir (or ma'am)! :)

Edited April 2, 2020 by dreamr

[bonvoyagie]

While I have only been cruising since 2002 and really do not have that many under my belt. I have seen many changes since our first cruise in 02 - mostly with the extra cost items onboard. Fares have remained somewhat constant - at least for non-suite cabins - suites and the Haven have risen sky high. 

 

The industry as a whole needs to be patient, scale back operations, perhaps put some less efficient ships into a class c lay up and return to the late 90's or early 2000's. 

 

I don't know which NCL ships are the most efficent - the Jewel class or the Away/+ but maybe a mix of both would be required to have the most efficient operations. Offer only popular itineraries - Alaska, Mexican Rivera, Carib. Med.  Focus on the customer experience and not so much profit.

 

I think  the cruise industry will eventually rebound to the same point it is today - it may take a few lean years, but they will get back to where they were before the COVID-19 Pandemic. 

[mnsweeps]

Got a reply today from FL attorney office that their Consumer protection Division has opened a case for me and would be contacting me if need. They mentioned receiving many similar cases from consumers against NCL. Just an FYI

 

 

[sverigecruiser]

On 3/31/2020 at 9:02 PM, dreamr said:

I understand the airline's normal policy regarding refunds. However, this is not a normal situation we are in, and in my opinion, they should be more willing to work with their customers. It's not like we all just suddenly had a change of heart and decided to change our plans and they know this. People are canceling their flights because they can no longer go where they were planning to go, either because of health reasons or the various travel bans that states are starting to enact. The airlines just don't seem to care and refuse to even offer refunds. That, to me, is more inexcusable.

 

 

I don't agree that it's inexcusable of the airlines not to give a refund when someone cancel their reservation. The airlines, at least most of they, sell tickets which are possible to cancel for any reason and get a refund so that's the ticket to buy if someone may need to cancel.

 

I do think that it's inexcusable not to refund when the flight is cancelled.

[Roger88]

On 3/31/2020 at 10:02 PM, dreamr said:

 

I hope that isn't directed at me. 😒

 

I understand the airline's normal policy regarding refunds. However, this is not a normal situation we are in, and in my opinion, they should be more willing to work with their customers. It's not like we all just suddenly had a change of heart and decided to change our plans and they know this. People are canceling their flights because they can no longer go where they were planning to go, either because of health reasons or the various travel bans that states are starting to enact. The airlines just don't seem to care and refuse to even offer refunds. That, to me, is more inexcusable.

 

While I am not excusing the cruise line for the refund delay, at least they are giving affected people the option. Not to mention allowing people to cancel their own cruises and rebook without penalties. Before you say that's also what the airlines are doing, NCL is giving us two and a half years to rebook while the airline is giving us a handful of months, when we have no idea if life will be back to normal that quickly.

They dont care really. I mean, the people who work there do care but as a company - they dont want to lose money. And they clearly understand that people have no way around it. Yes, we can try to bargain, disagree, show our anger but in the end the regular policy will be applied to all of us. And its not like the government can interfere or something. Yes, they might lose a very insuficient percentage of the customers.. but not like they will suffer much from these losses. 

[dreamr]

5 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I don't agree that it's inexcusable of the airlines not to give a refund when someone cancel their reservation. The airlines, at least most of they, sell tickets which are possible to cancel for any reason and get a refund so that's the ticket to buy if someone may need to cancel.

 

I do think that it's inexcusable not to refund when the flight is cancelled.

 

As stated in the post you quoted, this is not a normal situation we are in. No one could have predicted this. We (everyone who has had their travel plans canceled due to this virus) did not decide to stay home of our own accord. Cruises were canceled and travel warnings (or bans) were issued. People are dying from this virus. A virus that is easily spread in situations such as traveling in a packed airplane, and I venture to guess that a percentage of their customers would be considered high risk.

 

I am not asking for a refund, but only giving us a few months to travel, when it is still considered unsafe to do so is wrong, in my opinion.

 

For comparison, I had also booked a non-refundable hotel room and it was refunded within three days of the cruises being canceled.

 

I do not understand why so many people are upset at NCL but giving the airlines a pass.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

They dont care really. I mean, the people who work there do care but as a company - they dont want to lose money. And they clearly understand that people have no way around it. Yes, we can try to bargain, disagree, show our anger but in the end the regular policy will be applied to all of us. And its not like the government can interfere or something. Yes, they might lose a very insuficient percentage of the customers.. but not like they will suffer much from these losses. 

 

Oh, I know they don't care. They are making that obvious. If I weren't located right at one of their hubs and therefore have very few options of alternate airlines, I would definitely book with another airline next time.

[luv2kroooz]

46 minutes ago, dreamr said:

I do not understand why so many people are upset at NCL but giving the airlines a pass.

The airlines have been required by the federal government to maintain a certain level of flights. The government considers them to be an essential service of moving cargo and people. It wouldn't make sense to be upset with an airline for following a government mandate. You could redirect any anger to the government, though. The government just reiterated this in the agreement they reached with the airlines yesterday. Any airline receiving Federal aid is required to remain in operation and maintain a level of service through at least September.

 

Cruiselines are the opposite. Government has issued a no sail order, but the cruiselines continue to market cruise vacations. That's a big difference.

[dreamr]

1 hour ago, blcruising said:

The airlines have been required by the federal government to maintain a certain level of flights. The government considers them to be an essential service of moving cargo and people. It wouldn't make sense to be upset with an airline for following a government mandate. You could redirect any anger to the government, though. The government just reiterated this in the agreement they reached with the airlines yesterday. Any airline receiving Federal aid is required to remain in operation and maintain a level of service through at least September.

 

Cruiselines are the opposite. Government has issued a no sail order, but the cruiselines continue to market cruise vacations. That's a big difference.

 

So because they are essential to some people, that makes it okay for them to require people to "use or lose" their tickets in the current situation? Sorry, I don't agree with that.

 

Again, my issue is not the fact that they aren't offering refunds or that they have not shut down. My issue is the short time frame we have to use our ticket. If they would give us until 2022, like NCL has, or even sometime in 2021, I would have no issue.

[sverigecruiser]

3 hours ago, dreamr said:

 

As stated in the post you quoted, this is not a normal situation we are in. No one could have predicted this. We (everyone who has had their travel plans canceled due to this virus) did not decide to stay home of our own accord. Cruises were canceled and travel warnings (or bans) were issued. People are dying from this virus. A virus that is easily spread in situations such as traveling in a packed airplane, and I venture to guess that a percentage of their customers would be considered high risk.

 

 

Yes this is not a normal situation, for us or for the airlines. The airlines can not continue to sell much more expensive refundable tickets if people with non refundable tickets get their money back if they choose to cancel. It's a risk we take when we buy the cheaper tickets.

 

[sverigecruiser]

3 hours ago, dreamr said:

For comparison, I had also booked a non-refundable hotel room and it was refunded within three days of the cruises being canceled.

 

 

I always pay a little extra so that I can cancel hotels if I want/need to. The extra I pay is normally around $20/night.

 

Why did you booked a non-refundable hotel room?

 

May I ask which hotel it was so that I never book that? It's completely wrong to refund money for non-refundable rooms if they also sell refundable rooms at a higher rate, which most hotels does.

Edited April 15, 2020 by sverigecruiser

[beerman2]

34 minutes ago, dreamr said:

 

So because they are essential to some people, that makes it okay for them to require people to "use or lose" their tickets in the current situation? Sorry, I don't agree with that.

 

Again, my issue is not the fact that they aren't offering refunds or that they have not shut down. My issue is the short time frame we have to use our ticket. If they would give us until 2022, like NCL has, or even sometime in 2021, I would have no issue.

Being airlines are regulated by FAA and DOT , I'm pretty sure what they are doing falls within the legalities. I'm not saying that is the "right thing " to do . 

 

I'm in the same situation right now. I already have FC with one airline and don't want another if our June trip is cancelled. 

 

Fortunately I will use the first one and if I have to I will just book 1 way on 2 different carriers and purchase upgraded seats if necessary. I still might be out some 💰💰💰.

 

AirBnb for first trip was excellent refunding CC. Second trip hotel is being very accommodating with a pre-paid rate that is very restrictive.

 

ALL businesses are going to do what they feel is best. Some will do it better than others.

 

I think many loose sight of this unprecedented time, and money is a big issue.

 

[beerman2]

10 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I always pay a little extra so that I can cancel hotels if I want/need to. The extra I pay is normally around $20/night.

 

Why did you booked a non-refundable hotel room?

 

May I ask which hotel it was so that I never book that? It's completely wrong to refund money for non-refundable rooms if they also sell refundable rooms at a higher rate, which most hotels does.

This pandemic isn't a normal situation with any type travel plans. Have to disagree why those that purchased the non-refundable/pre-paid rates shouldn't get a break. It's not our choice we may not be able to go.

 

I give much credit/kudos to those chains that are working with their customers. Look how many times people say Customer Service is terrible.

 

I will mention the chain ((Marriott). They not only were willing to change from the restrictive rates to normal rate, but have also given the option to cancel until end of June now. So they've added another 2 months.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, beerman2 said:

This pandemic isn't a normal situation with any type travel plans. Have to disagree why those that purchased the non-refundable/pre-paid rates shouldn't get a break. It's not our choice we may not be able to go.

 

I give much credit/kudos to those chains that are working with their customers. Look how many times people say Customer Service is terrible.

 

 

Maybe it's not your choice that you may not be able to go but it is your choice to book non-refundable or refundable rates. It's always better to book a refundable rate if the extra cost is small. (Or should be, but it this case it wasn't since also non-refundable rates suddenly was refundable.)

 

Non-refundable airlines tickets are easier to understand since the refundable tickets normally cost MUCH more. I always take the risk and buy non-refundabe airline tickets but I never expect to get any money back if I have to cancel.

 

Aren't thoose who pay higher rates for the possibility to cancel and get their money back also customers?  People who say that customer service is terrible because they have to cancel and don't get any money back when they booked a non-refundable rate are not worth listening too, I think.

 

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, beerman2 said:

I will mention the chain ((Marriott). They not only were willing to change from the restrictive rates to normal rate, but have also given the option to cancel until end of June now. So they've added another 2 months.

 

Thank you for telling me that. Now I know that I shall stay away from Marriott if I want to pay for a more expensive refundable rate. 

[beerman2]

1 minute ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Thank you for telling me that. Now I know that I shall stay away from Marriott if I want to pay for a more expensive refundable rate. 

The big thing is unprecedented times call for unprecedented changes. Can't loose sight of that.

 

Sometimes it's more about the "right thing to do" rather than the almighty dollar. 

[sverigecruiser]

6 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

The big thing is unprecedented times call for unprecedented changes. Can't loose sight of that.

 

Sometimes it's more about the "right thing to do" rather than the almighty dollar. 

 

The right thing to do may be to follow the terms the customers agreed to when they, for example, booked their room.

 

I guess that we just will have to agree that we disagree. I have no problem with that.

[beerman2]

4 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

The right thing to do may be to follow the terms the customers agreed to when they, for example, booked their room.

 

I guess that we just will have to agree that we disagree. I have no problem with that.

So compassionate, I'll be you've never broken a rule. 

 

 

[sverigecruiser]

6 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

So compassionate, I'll be you've never broken a rule. 

 

 

 

I feel no need to argue with you.

 

Isn't it easier just to agree that we disagree?

[dreamr]

11 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I always pay a little extra so that I can cancel hotels if I want/need to. The extra I pay is normally around $20/night.

 

Why did you booked a non-refundable hotel room?

 

May I ask which hotel it was so that I never book that? It's completely wrong to refund money for non-refundable rooms if they also sell refundable rooms at a higher rate, which most hotels does.

 

I had booked one of those "we'll show you the hotel after you pay" deals on an online travel site. The site in question immediately began working with all of their hotel partners to offer refunds for everyone affected by the crisis. Three days and the money was back on my card. I didn't even have to call them.

 

However, now that I have answered your question, I have to say that the fact that you would even make a statement like that shows me that we are on opposite sides of the empathy spectrum in this crisis. In a situation where thousands of people are losing their jobs and could use every extra dollar they can get, I believe a little compassion would go a long way. May you never find yourself in such a situation. Have a good evening. :)