HAL the New NCL

[herb]

With the current approach, bargain cruisers can still afford to go while those who appreciate more luxury and more varied experiences can pay slightly more for the privilege.

 

 

If that be the case I have a feeling that we have gone back to multi class cruising, the only difference being that the walls that once divided the classes are now invisible to the naked eye.

[bepsf]

Being owned by Carnival is having its affect

 

Carnival had its effect on HAL from the first day of ownership.

 

HAL had a pair of 70,000 tonners on the boards, with yard contracts all but finalized.

 

Carnival swept in and yanked those contracts, then gave HAL the blueprints for the S Class ships.

 

Still don't like Carnival?

[Pudgesmom]

 

Now if you are really serious about convincing the cruise lines to build more small ships, you should be booking every cruise on Seabourn, Radison, and Silver Sea. Since many of their sailings are half empty, you will not have too much trouble getting a cabin.

 

After I read this, I posted a thread over on the Seabourne forum, (another Carnival line), asking whether their ships sail half empty.

 

The responses indicated that this was not the case at all. I am left wondering where you got this information?

 

Beth

[RevNeal]

I believe we all better get used to bigger ships. Most Mainstream cruiselines keep their ships on average for 12-15 years before they are transferred or sold. The S class will be reaching that age pretty soon. With 4 new slightly larger ships on order (or so I hear) I believe it will not be too long before most if not all of the S class to be replaced by the "new larger" class.

 

Firstly, the S class ranges between 13 and 10 years in age, with the Statendam being the oldest and the Veendam the youngest. By your estimation, HAL should be looking to sell these ships NOW. Only ... they're not.

 

Secondly, very FAR from planning to sell off these lovely ladies, HAL is the midst of investing many MILLIONS of dollars into major upgrades for these vessels to keep them on the cutting edge of the cruise industry lower-mid-sized ships. With this kind of investment, it does NOT seem likely that HAL is contemplating off-loading the S-class for a long time to come.

 

Thirdly, the Statendam is already serving in far-flung theaters, and it seems likely that we'll continue to see such forward-deployement of these vessels in the coming decade.

 

Fourthly, HAL has contracted for ONE Signature Ship, with an option for a second vessel of this class. There is NOTHING in any of the press releases which indicate a 4-ship run. But, EVEN IF SUCH WERE THE CASE this doesn't automatically mean that HAL is planning to off-load the S-class with the purchase of the Signature ships. Where is it written that HAL can only have 13 ships? Why not 15? Why not 17? HAL doesn't seem to be having any trouble selling berths on all of its ships. And, with more large ships for the mass-market itineraries, the S-class and R-class ships may be freed up for more exotic and long-range cruises ... as, indeed, we're already seeing with the Statendam stationed for 2/3 of the year in Australia and Asia.

 

Back to HAL- it's quite possible that in just a few years they will have 4 "R" class ships, 4 Vista class ships, 4 "new class(signature) ships" and the Prisendam for longer cruises.

 

Again, there have been NO announcements concerning 4 Signature ships ... just 1, with an option for a 2nd ship of the class.

[RevNeal]

Greg, if I were a betting man I would wager that 144 seat restaurant comes with a surcharge, a la Pinnacle.

 

Oh, I agree entirely. As I said in my prior post in which I quoted the HAL press release, this restaurant will be similar to the Pinnacle Grill. In other words, it will be a surcharge restaurant. As for the cuisine, James Deering once hinted that any new restaurant to be found aboard a future upgraded-vista ship would probably be an Italian one.

[RevNeal]

On the positive side, HAL has a very nice lineup of small ships that are relatively new - and probably already paid for.

 

And into which HAL is in the midst of pouring MILLIONS of dollars for major upgrades.

 

HAL also is building a nice lineup of new bigger ships that are quite profitable, and can cover the lack of profits on their small ships. It is unlikely that HAL will be in a hurry to divest of those nice small ships, even though they are not exactly flushing the company with money.

 

Can you demonstrate any of this with actual figures??? Or, is this just supposition? Based upon your argument, the operational expenses of between 4 and 8 ships are being underwritten by just 3 Vistas ... ships that are NOT entirely paid for yet! I don't care if you claim to be "in the industry," your claims just don't jive with reality. HAL is having ZERO problem fully booking these ships. Even the SUPER EXPENSIVE exotic cruises on some of the S-class ships (like the Statendam's Asian itineraries) are booking SOLID anywhere from 9 months to a year in advance. And these are NOT cheap cruises. Revenues from these cruises are probably quite a bit HIGHER than the Vistas, which haul their butts around the CHEAP mass-market itineraries.

 

HAL Cruisers should be very happy that the future of small ship cruisinig with HAL will most likely be nicely subsidized by the bigger HAL ships.

 

I would argue that the opposite is true. It's HAL's paid for and popular smaller ships -- the S and R class vessels -- that are helping to pay off what is still owed on the Vistas.

[PRINSENDAM]

indeed, we're already seeing with the Statendam stationed for 2/3 of the year in Australia and Asia.

 

 

The story is that WESTERDAM will be sent 'down under' for the 08 season due to demand. A pity, it is nice having on of the S ships down here.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing an Italian style restaurant on board... perhaps along the lines of what the original Odyssey and Marco Polo restaurants were.

 

I think we can be fairly confident that if HAL have thought it through then we will end up with a nice new feature. Nothing to worry about.

 

How about a restaurant just for Suite passengers? (Ducking for cover!)

 

Stephen

[grannynurse]

I Object!

 

HAL will never be anything akin to NCL.

GN

[SLove]

"Excuse me - but where did you get these ideas from?

 

The new restaurant will be built very much like the one atop P&O's new Arcadia - the ship that was originally intended to be HAL's Vista #4, then moved over to Cunard, etc.:"

I "got these ideas" straight from the mouth of the regional BDM (I guess they got rid of the DSM idea) who stated "the signature class will have an entire deck of the ship dedicated to restaurants".

I haven't been contributing too long to the forum but I have been reading for a while. I remember when someone first mentioned that they were getting rid of the Java Cafe and stuff in the old R and S class ships everybody screamed "proove it!" or "you are a liar - repent". The guy was right on the money. I'm just telling you what I was told - and the ship will not be like P & O's Vista knock-off.

Holland America is making money and having no problems selling out their ships. As revneal said, if the smaller ships were not making any money, they would dump them quickly.

[BruceMuzz]

Strange. It seems that we have some traditionalists (like me) here who are on the one hand upset that HAL might be moving away from the tradition of smaller ships - but at the same time moving back to the tradition of a class system on those ships.

 

Do you really think you can have it both ways?

[RevNeal]

I "got these ideas" straight from the mouth of the regional BDM (I guess they got rid of the DSM idea) who stated "the signature class will have an entire deck of the ship dedicated to restaurants".

 

I haven't been contributing too long to the forum but I have been reading for a while. I remember when someone first mentioned that they were getting rid of the Java Cafe and stuff in the old R and S class ships everybody screamed "proove it!" or "you are a liar - repent". The guy was right on the money.

 

Interesting. Your information is not substantiated by any of the Signature Class press releases, however, and that's the problem. You are correct: 2 years ago we had heard NOTHING from HAL about the reconfiguration of the Java Cafe, Library, Hudson Room, etc., and the installation of the Wine Tasting, Culinary Arts Center, and Explorations Lounge aboard the S and R class ships when word-of-mouth began claiming that such changes were coming down the pike. No press release, no nothing, was forthcoming from HAL until just before it actually happened on the first S to be upgraded. All we had was "word of mouth" regarding it, and the way it was described -- at first -- reflected confusion over the configuration of the S relative to the R ships (whoever spilled the word about the upgrades conflated the two designs and generated confusion which, in turn, generated doubt about the veracity of the word). In short, we've had mixed degrees of veracity relative to the word-of-mouth news received -- it's sometimes been correct, sometimes confused, and sometimes totally incorrect. One thing I have noticed, however, is that when HAL has a press release which describes what's coming, and we hear word-of-mouth news regarding the same thing which, however, contradicts the details of the press release, it's the press release that is correct. Perhaps this is the time that the press release is wrong and the word-of-mouth interpretation is correct? Could be. However, take a look at what HAL has released to the press and then consider the word-of-mouth interpretation you have received from a regional BDM and presented here. They do NOT agree.

 

Now, you're not the only one who has had word of mouth information about the Signature Class ships from highly placed people in HAL. While I was aboard the Oosterdam last month details about the Signature class ships were give to me by the ship's HM, personally, during a private dinner. This was the day BEFORE the press release. His description of the ship tallied with the content of the press release and, when I asked for clarification about where this new dining venue would be located, he said essentially: "It will be a circular restaurant located amidships above the observation deck, providing forward views of the Lido Deck pool when the roof is open and, on the sides, the open ocean." Again, this description jives with the HAL press release (a "topside" restaurant), but not with your word-of-mouth description of it being on a single "food" deck with the other restaurants.

 

I'm just telling you what I was told - and the ship will not be like P & O's Vista knock-off.

 

And, from what I have read of the press release, plus what I was told in January by the Oosterdam's then-HM, what you were told is inaccurate. I'm sorry, but that's just how it looks to me down here. Perhaps we'll find out something different on the Noordam week after next? I'll be sure to ask.

[RevNeal]

The story is that WESTERDAM will be sent 'down under' for the 08 season due to demand. A pity, it is nice having on of the S ships down here.

 

Actually, Stephen, one of the things I was told while aboard the Oosterdam was that there would be TWO ships deployed in the far east in coming years (08 and beyond). Henk didn't say which two ships. I had asked about projected future plans to expand service and provide more itineraries to Asia, Indonesia, and Australia, and the reply was that we could look forward to HAL providing more in those regions over the next decade. When I said "as with the Statendam's new deployement?" the reply was "Yes, indeed, and then some. Look for two ships in the region." I had thought he meant another of the S-class ships, but perhaps they're talking about a Vista? Could be. He also said to watch for South Pacific offerings, by which I took the meaning "Tahiti." Have you heard anything in that department?

[RevNeal]

SLove,

 

No one is calling you or anyone else a "liar," we're just trying to reconcile two totally different projections of what the Signature series will contain. If the Press Release is correct, then what you were told CANNOT be accurate. It's as simple as that.

 

I have no doubt that you are relating what you were told. I have received an e-mail from a friend telling me that they have heard the same thing as you ... and are at as much of a loss as I for explaining HOW both what they were told AND the Press Release could both be true at the same time. They are, after all, mutually exclusive concepts. Either the new restaurant will be located on a restaurant deck with all the other food service venues (the "Lido" too?), OR it will be located "topside" with panoramic views of the ocean and the Lido deck pool. It cannot be BOTH.

 

To put this simply, from what I'm being told there's a GREAT AMOUNT of speculation under way among BDMs as to what the ship's layout will be (with possibly 3 or four new dining venues); HAL appears to have not entirely settled on ship's schematics, though if one thinks about it for a minute ... why would they publish a press release with the basic concept of a "topside" 144 seat restaurant if they were still up in the air about THAT aspect of it?

[Stevesan]

How about a restaurant just for Suite passengers? (Ducking for cover!)

 

Stephen

 

You're too late. The S and R class ships had the King's room exclusively for suite pax. It's now the revenue producing Pinnacle Grill.

[iceman93]

If that be the case I have a feeling that we have gone back to multi class cruising, the only difference being that the walls that once divided the classes are now invisible to the naked eye.

 

I don't really think that's the case, at least not totally. I think of it like a nice, upscale Marriott hotel. There are basic rooms that may go for $149, and concierge rooms that go for $299, and suites that run into the thousands per night. But all guests get the same basic amenities in terms of front desk check-in, restaurants, shops, gym and pool, laundry, room service, etc. Yes, there is a concierge lounge which provides some nice added features, but all in all the hotel is the same no matter which room you stay in.