Costa vs. MSC

[At7Seas]

9 hours ago, jimdee3636 said:

I'm wondering if you're familiar with the Hapag-Lloyd cruise line

 

Sailing with Hapag, the company that invented cruises… Although Hapag Lloyd today belongs to TUI cruises and is by this for 50% Royal Caribbean, is owned by mass-market lines, it remains very exclusive - with quite a price tag. I never have been aboard of one of their vessels, but have seen one and was very surprised that they are carrying a maximum of so few passengers. Cabins and passenger areas must be huge compared to other ships. Based on their capacity I expected the ships to be much smaller than they are. Of course this contributes to the comfort aboard. This fits completely to the fame the company has and I know that all their ships are always rated at highest levels. Since I never sailed with them I can’t say anything about language use, only that at least basic knowledge of English is generally needed on all ships worldwide. Whether they try to attract English speakers? I have no idea. I’d suggest contacting them directly.

[At7Seas]

3 hours ago, drsel said:

Dear At7seas, how did U manage to get the excursion @ 45 euros? Which website? Thanks!

 

I used a popular search engine. Query “shore excursions in xyz”, I do that for all destinations. In this case it had been Mauritius. Among the results there was a list from the official tourist office where companies could put their offers on. I found something I was interested in and booked. Later (very late actually) MSC published their shore excursions and I was quite surprised what their price was. In most destinations however you need to collect the information from several companies, not everywhere a tourist office does that work for you. Commercial platforms also give an idea, searching further can have interesting result, both cheaper for you and more income for the local providers that don’t need to pay the platform. A few minutes work with quite a potential for saving and also the possibility to find something not even offered by cruise lines.

[drsel]

MSC is getting better and better.

5 different free pizzas in the buffet and all of  decent quality, despite being free.

Baklava and dark chocolate cakes for dessert. Norwegian pink salmon, muesli  with sliced roasted almonds and walnuts for breakfast.

Different flavors of ice cream every night including pista, chocolate chips, coffee.

Free sundaes  in the main dining room.

excellent shows every night, for 11 nights in a row.

[Skipper Tim]

Drsel, which itinerary was that? All cruise lines vary their offering by geographic area/demographic. 

 

Some things remain constant(ish). On my Costa repo cruise Brazil-Spain, I managed to drink the ship dry of a few Italian wines 🙂 When I asked if they would restock at any of our ports of call, the answer was no, everything, for the entire winter season, came from Savona pointing to the glasses, tablecloths, "Even the eggs". Apparently the last, for omelettes and scrambled, were bought by the ton in Savona, six months earlier. I had to keep changing my choice of wine as they dropped off the list but stuck to scrambled eggs with my breakfast. 

[drsel]

 

14 minutes ago, Skipper Tim said:

Drsel, which itinerary was that? All cruise lines vary their offering by geographic area

MSC Preziosa and MSC Fantasia both sailing from Hamburg and Kiel to different Norwegian fjords 

[drsel]

It is very difficult to reach the highest level in Costa, because points expire automatically even if you sail every year.

Whereas MSC is far superior because you just need to sail once in three years to keep your points forever and accumulate more

 

On Costa, the lack of free drinking water with lunch and dinner in the main dining room, mandatory service charge, poor quality and variety of 'free' food are the main complaints.

Even pizzas are chargeable on Costa, an Italian ship!

 

Also very limited times for breakfast, lunch and dinner in the buffet and main dining room, around 2 hours for each.

No free tea and coffee available except during the 2 hours of breakfast and 1 hour evening tea.

 

When you come back from an excursion, there is no decent food on the entire ship late afternoon and evening (except for pastries with evening tea)

You have to wait until 7 or 7:30 p.m. for the buffet to re-open

 

On Costa, the passengers are mainly Italian and less than 5% of passengers are native English speakers, whereas MSC has a better international mix of passengers.

 

The crew on both MSC and Costa speak good English.

 

On MSC, all the activities and games are conducted with English as the first language and Italian as second.

On Costa, it is the reverse. Sometimes they need to be reminded to repeat everything in English.

  

Spas on the the new ships of MSC are the best in the entire Cruise industry and far superior to those on Costa.

 

On a typical 7 night Cruise, MSc has 7 grand production shows whereas Costa has only 4.

Edited June 4, 2023 by drsel

[Skipper Tim]

11 minutes ago, drsel said:

On MSc all the activities and games are conducted with English as the first language and Italian as second.

On Costa, it is the reverse. Sometimes they need to be reminded to repeat everything in English.

  

Spas on the the new ships of MSC are the best in the entire Cruise industry and far superior to those on Costa.

 

As I said, it varies by itinerary. On two of my MSC cruises English was always the last language, if used at all. 

 

The spas on Costa's Concordia class ships are widely regarded as the best at sea - not that I would ever pay ship prices for a spa when there are the wonderful 5-star hotels in Turkey with real Turkish baths and masseurs at a tiny fraction of the price. 

 

The public toilets on MSC are far superior to those on Costa - more logically situated, more spacious, far more luxurious and with encouragement to use a paper towel to open the exit door - and this was pre-pandemic.

 

I don't actually like MSC or Costa, only their repositioning cruise prices. I should save up for a Celebrity cruise instead (I find Cunard too American). 

[At7Seas]

23 hours ago, Skipper Tim said:

"Even the eggs". Apparently the last, for omelettes and scrambled, were bought by the ton in Savona, six months earlier.

 

Most cruise lines get their food and everything from their home base. But they do not have eggs for half a year aboard when leaving for the winter overseas, but everything is sent in containers to the ship again and again - everywhere on the world. Food for half a year would not only result in serious problems with the shelf life of food, but also with storage space. The sometimes maintained idea that the chef is visiting local markets and buys all food for several thousands of guests every day is not matching reality. What might be technically possible for yacht style ships is completely impossible for the size of ship we are talking about - simply try to buy 10,000 eggs in the next supermarket to stock for next week… Compromises are done with essential things running out or in some cases when the product is typical for the region, say the ship is sailing during the winter months along a famous wine region and local wine might get onto the table. European ships not sailing in Chile or South Africa won’t rely on local wines. At the end of a season overseas stock is limited, so sailing on a Costa returning to Savona can result in running short of a few things. I recently was on a ship returning and there was a shortage of sparkling water, in every port so much was bought as available and again and again another brand came onto table.

[Skipper Tim]

7 minutes ago, At7Seas said:

 

But they do not have eggs for half a year aboard when leaving for the winter overseas

Powdered eggs. I believe it. Costa also used instant mash in most meals whether or not potato was mentioned as one of the ingredients.I imagine they have silos for powdered egg, powdered potato, powdered milk, and everything that can be stored dry and all bought in the home port. It would explain why the food was not great after 6 months away. They even ran out of 'orange juice' and it was never restocked despite multiple ports of call. Again I suspect it was either powder or concentrate from Savona. I did see some re-stocking of items in crates but very, very little for the number of people on board - e.g toilet rolls? 

[At7Seas]

1 hour ago, Skipper Tim said:

Powdered eggs

 

Sure, dried and where possible powdered ingredients are common in large kitchens. But it is hard to prepare fried eggs from egg powder and I can imagine quite a number of less obvious meals where the fresh eggs or parts of them are needed. The toilet paper you saw is a very good example of things you really can’t miss aboard and stocked even in relative small numbers locally if hard needed, orange juice is easier to replace. The dispensers work with concentrate BTW. Full stocking happens only in a few ports. Costa does this if Savona isn’t on the route anyway often at main passenger exchange ports. Here during arrival in Kiel the first trucks are already waiting:

 

 

[Skipper Tim]

We usually had omelette or scrambled eggs every morning, between us sometimes both. They usually arrived within 3-4 minutes. One morning I asked for a fried egg. It took half an hour. I thought they must be trying to persuade the ship's chicken to lay an egg for me. It was undercooked and the white slimy and that plus the wait meant I never had another one in 18 days on board. 

 

I am planning on living on a small sailing boat so I was taking notes of this pragmatic catering all the time. Lots of dry food. I read a story quite recently of a yachtsman who sailed the World with a hen because it was easier to have her and chicken feed than obtaining and keeping eggs. Food for thought. 

[At7Seas]

14 minutes ago, Skipper Tim said:

ship's chicken

 

Oh, I knew already that Costa always has chicken aboard. I just thought that they were all ready to be cooked…

[At7Seas]

Cabin on MSC Sinfonia April 9th, 2023

 

 

[jimdee3636]

@At7Seas

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Those pictures---if representative of how MSC cabins are maintained---tell me all I need to know about the line.

 

Jim

[Stockjock]

5 minutes ago, jimdee3636 said:

@At7Seas

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Those pictures---if representative of how MSC cabins are maintained---tell me all I need to know about the line.

 

Jim

Out of fairness, it's not representative.  Their cabins are usually quite well-maintained.  I've been on 5 MSC cruises and never seen anything like that.

[At7Seas]

7 hours ago, jimdee3636 said:

@At7Seas

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Those pictures---if representative of how MSC cabins are maintained---tell me all I need to know about the line.

 

Jim

 

Well, these pictures are representative not only for my cabin, but for the entire ship. Just one example out of many: close to my cabin was a door to an outdoor area. The door handle was broken and it took more than a week to repair it. Yes, it is true, not all MSC ships are as old as the Sinfonia and I had been on a relative young ship before that simply had no time to reach such a state of decay. But the lifetime of a vessel may never be used as excuse for selling cruises on a ship rocked down like this. Funny enough the most modern bathroom I had on a ship that was 38 years old when I was sailing, nearly twice as old as the Sinfonia. Only the vacuum toilet reminded you being at sea. Maintenance and modernisation on a ship are possible - if the owner decides to do so. And my cabin is also representative for the way MSC treated the passengers aboard. From food to front desk. Everything. Regardless whether I stay in a three, four or five star hotel ashore, everywhere I expect a clean room, maintained to well usable standards, edible breakfast and service orientated staff. Basics. And the Sinfonia lacks basics. As well as the behaviour of the client service ashore, which is not related to a single ship of course. Somehow I regard these pictures as being very representative for MSC as whole. They reflect how MSC does business and I am afraid this is not earning money by selling their guests the best possible cruise experience.

[drsel]

On 6/9/2023 at 7:36 AM, At7Seas said:

Cabin on MSC Sinfonia April 9th, 2023

 

 

This is not acceptable for any Cruise line.

Luckily all our cabins never had any major problems, any maintenance issues were quickly sorted out

Edited June 18, 2023 by drsel

[drsel]

Just released!

The internet opinion of the worst 3 Cruise lines.

This is quite incredible, I just can't believe it

Edited August 4, 2023 by drsel

[Skipper Tim]

57 minutes ago, drsel said:

Just released!

The internet opinion of the worst 3 Cruise lines.

This is quite incredible, I just can't believe it

Most Northern American cruise guests are like fish out of water on European cruise lines and if one thing upsets them like not having free iced water on the table, the option of steak every night or towel animals in the cabin, their reviews tend to become quite negatively polarised. It was always thus and always thus will be. 

 

My worst cruise experiences were with Royal Caribbean because of the ceaseless, hard, in-your-face selling. Northern Americans don't seem to mind that. I do.

[At7Seas]

16 hours ago, drsel said:

This is quite incredible, I just can't believe it

 

Oh, I really can believe it. I have no personal experience on Princess and would put MSC by far to the end of all cruise lines. If I am surprised about something it is that 1/3 of reviews did give MSC more than the worst possible number of points.

 

In the video there is stated that MSC has in opposite to Costa no “excuse” not to follow the American way of cruising, because MSC massively tries getting US guests. I couldn’t disagree more. First there is no excuse for being bad. Second there is no excuse needed for not being American. In the video there are quoted a lot of ridiculous remarks about Costa.

 

How one can complain that Costa offers pasta? Italian traditional menus have a pasta course, how could one complain that on an Italian menu the first main course, in Italian called either primo (first) or pasta (!), is a pasta course? Is it bad that all Mediterranean kitchens don’t serve food boiling hot but warm - and Costa doesn’t do differently - or is it part of the Mediterranean way of life? For Italians a good dinner is very important and Costa attracts the largest percentage of Italian guests of all cruise lines, while they are not the only cruise line offering Italian language services. Somehow they seem to do it very well - but many reviews crack them down for not being totally Americanised.

 

From my European view Americans in service orientated jobs often tend to overdo in terms of artificial kindness and subservience. What is regarded as a perfect friendly behaviour in Europe is often regarded as being rude by Americans. While MSC has a blame-the-customer policy I this never experienced on Costa. If one doesn’t like foreign cultures it is it the fault of the foreign culture?

 

Yes, there are aspects of entertainment left out on Costa. Everything language based isn’t done by obvious reasons on a ship where so many languages are spoken. Despite this they offer a main act of different disciplines every single evening and have a lot of musicians around the ship. Not mentioned in the video, but there are enough reviewers regarding themselves as superior enough that they think their own language has to be used first, even on an Italian vessel run by an Italian company with as often largest group aboard being Italians.

 

While MSC tries being a cheap copy of American cruise lines Costa even sells itself as being Italian. So where is the surprise? A lot of complaints are just about having the wrong expectations. One may expect a clean and maintained cabin (see my MSC pictures above), food prepared as it should and a friendly, competent and well functioning service environment. But has a cruise line to surrender to the cultural expectations of a small part of their foreign guests and neglect the majority from their home markets? Who is fault, the one who expects to be the centre of the universe or the company following it’s own national way of life and invites others to become part of this experience?

[Skipper Tim]

We have to remember that most North Americans we meet are the higher-functioning ones - they have passports (unlike the vast majority). Americans, have for a very long time, dominated the cruise industry and it is literally a total culture shock when an experienced US guest samples a European cruise line. 

 

Cunard, the 'quintessentially British' line with 'White Star Service', I find shockingly American. It is like a Disney World interpretation of what a traditional British liner should be - about as accurate as Dick van Dyke's accent in Mary Poppins. I had to learn some US English to communicate with the staff and even understand the menus - let alone the culture onboard. They don't even know how to fry an egg correctly. 

 

Any cruise line that tries to do things differently to the mass US lines are going to attract all those comments expressed in this video simply because most cruise passengers globally are American and dominate the internet reviews. I am sure most Europeans would share my horror at a typical US cruise line. 

 

Even most high-functioning Americans with passports, if they leave the US, tend to stay in US chain hotels and eat at recognisable US chain eateries. On average they are not good travellers. Put the average US family or couple on an Italian cruise ship and, if they don't jump overboard, they will complain about everything and write a terrible review. It is to be expected. 

[At7Seas]

I completely agree. But thinking to be the centre of the universe doesn‘t really help exploring the world. Honestly, I had kind of a culture shock when I once cruised with Marella as probably only foreign guest aboard. And no, it wasn‘t bad, it was different.
 
In the end we can learn that we shouldn‘t just look at the valuation given in reviews only. We also should try to understand why someone tells that things were bad. Trying to figure out whether it is a serious incident or even a structural problem or just a cultural difference the reviewer didn‘t like.

[Skipper Tim]

@At7Seas, we are in agreement. My Tripadvisor hotel reviews are known for being excessively long but that is the only way to get in the details by which I can justify my personal judgement. Still the detail is there for someone to form a totally different opinion. Often a review says far more about the reviewer than it does about the thing they are reviewing. 

 

 

[BVILady]

Just stunned by not knowing about the safety drill. It is in the daily Oggie and it is announced over the loud speakers. I have been on various cruise lines and so far am happiest on Costa, not only because of the price and itinerary. But booking the World Cruise or 2023 and 2024 the deciding factor has actually been the itinerary, not even the price. Concerning price, if you pay $ 102,000.00 for your solo cabin on a World Cruise you really should not have any complaints and have to leave bad reviews. So everything is relative again.

What I read on Facebook a lot of people are complaining about the apps on ships. For example having to make reservations for dinner and having long waiting times to get a table. I had my assigned table and no problem with seating. I prefer breakfast and lunch at the buffet because there is a wider selection and I am particular of what I am having for breakfast, like lot's of fruits I can pick at the buffet and a certain pastry again only available on the buffet. Costa is the only cruise line where I had smoked salmon and croissant available every morning and had not to request it and chase it down. And my large salad for lunch is also easier from the buffet where I can choose what and how much I want from anything and then I can add whatever meat I want and again how much - lol. We had Lamb, slices of Prime-rib and even slices of Tomahawk steak on some days as choice on the buffet, so nothing to complain about. Watching what I eat I do have enough choices even I might not pick any pasta-dish, so what is the problem with serving Pasta?

I am residing in the Caribbean so am not able to have the Costa App, but that has not been a problem for me. Excursion meeting-points are advertised in the Oggie and the menu is available at the table in written format. My cabin was well maintained, the steward went overboard with everything I needed and after a short time knew when I was out and about so which was the best time to clean my cabin. I did not have any complaints on any of the wait-staff. As a matter of fact I like to have 2 cappuccinos for breakfast (one is too small) and the lady would bring it to my table when she saw me in the morning, I did not even have to ask for it after the first few days.

I personally being European I do not like all that ice in my drinks, so didn't any of my table-mates even they were American and Australian. I do live in a Tourist area and have been working in the Tourist Industry myself for 35 1/2 years and know what to expect and sometimes am over critical because you just see things when that is what you have been living in your job all these years. I am always stunned about the complaints about the charge for Pizza, on every lunch-buffet were 2 different versions of Pizza and you could stuff yourself free of charge if you so desire. And the complaint about having to pay for bottled water I keep on seeing, on every cruise I had to pay for bottled water if I did not have it included in a drink-package. 

But that is just me, everyone has their own expectations. I personally do like the variety of nationalities and having in the long past worked in the Fashion-industry I love seeing all the fashionable Italian, French and Spanish Garments, and when little old Island-girl me actually gets a compliment about something I am wearing I am just tickled pink. Actually on one cruise I saw all these people wearing Capri Pants (not sure whether it was HAL or Princess - definitely an American Line) and I could not understand what I was missing here, how they were all of a sudden fashionable. My best friend owning a boutique here in the BVI, laughed and explained to me that this was Cruise-wear - DUHH, silly me.

Not many Europeans being on Cruise Critic and most of the reviews are from English Speaking guests, we can't expect to see any good reviews from the not English Speaking guests who cruise with Costa again and again. I have noticed that mainly people who have a bone to pick will leave a review and most others leave it alone.

So just my 2 Cents.

[At7Seas]

I do have the app and it is not essential for cruising. Largest difference since I have it is that I can leave the Oggi in the cabin, it is useful but not more than nice to have. Next month I will be able to try the digital drill, but as far as I know walking to the muster station and scanning the cruise card (not the phone) remains part of the game and the digital drill is an additional offer, not the only one. For menus or the bar list the app is not needed at all, these come through wifi as pdf from the board intranet (local internet aboard, for connection you just need to identify with the number of the cruise card). The URL for download can be scanned as QR code or typed in the browser, both are found on tabletop displays and stickers all around. I still have menus directly downloaded to my laptop, while the app can‘t be installed on a laptop at all. Of course these downloads and use of the app aboard are free of charge, one doesn‘t need to buy an internet package to access.
 
The app definitely works, but why the app doesn‘t work on all phones? Let me approach the reason by eliminating possibilities that can be excluded by known facts. For this I will be a little bit technical now. Phones can basically connect with two different technologies enabling long distance communications. Through mobile phone networks and wifi networks. There are phone networks in different standards. A phone needs to fit to the available network standard to connect and if abroad roaming needs to be allowed in that network. All this is needed for regular phone calls and use of data is possible. But although this has been discussed here on cruise critic before neither phone standards no roaming limits can be the reason! The answer why is very easy to understand: if a phone uses data connection through the phone network the Costa app generally can be started, but does not offer all features, because the app needs data connection to the board wifi network for full use, for example the Oggi is available through onboard wifi intranet only. This is clearly communicated by Costa as well. If I try to access these items at home the app tells me that it is an onboard only function. Wifi is the second technique available on a phone and offers a much easier connectivity, because you don‘t have several incompatible standards and for access in worst case you need a password to log in, which is as said above your cruise card number. I never heard that connecting to the internet aboard of Costa ships through board wifi would be impossible for those who bought an internet package. The outcry would be loud and with a reason in this case. All together it means that the phone standard and roaming limits are not relevant for using the app and wifi connection to the board intranet is not the limiting factor. Another fact is that on some phones, especially Iphones, there are both geographical restrictions regarding the use of apps and to make it worse different restrictions regarding the country where a phone is bought.
 
Although it is ridiculous that a travel app could be restricted by the geographical safety properties of a phone I suspect after eliminating all the other possible problems that the phone is simply not fit for travel. This also explains why European phones don‘t have this problem. Compare it with credit cards that are limited to use in the home country only, it is hard to blame the restaurant on the tropical island far away from home that the bill can‘t be paid. BTW a problem that again is common only in parts of the world, my credit cards never were limited this way.