Art Auction dilema!!

[Treven]

I will try and post a link. Hope you all aren't dissappointed.

 

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/marlana_r_effertz/detail?.dir=/9df9&.dnm=1007scd.jpg&.src=ph

That's a nice looking whatever it turns out to be.

[MGoBlue2]

3. This is a unknown artist who is probably on PW's payroll as an "in-house" artist. They advertise the name of the artist and eventually get people to believe it is a well-known person because they've heard the name over and over. I know this for a fact because my husband used to be the business manager for a local art gallery that did many, many charity auctions. It's amazing how many people who consider themselves connoisseurs can be fooled by this.

While not famous Andrew Francis is hardly an "in-house" artist. I've never seen "Journey" advertised anywhere, but it looks a lot like some of his others - Looking Back, Modern Times, etc. Retail on screen prints of these paintings are in the $400 range.

 

Here's a link to a place selling Looking Back:

 

http://www.postershop.com/Francis-Andrew/Francis-Andrew-Looking-Back-2632874.html

 

Just a guess, but I'd say if the OP's print is numbered (#57) and individually signed it's worth a lot more - and probably why PW wants it back.

[kbt2]

OK, I know a little bit about art, and Carnival is ripping people off big time with their art auctions, but hey, some people feel important when they spend $5,000.00 on a $50.00 reproduction litho that you could get at a poster store. The paintings that are shipped to you are sent from a wearhouse full of prints. They outright lie to you when they say they are too large to take with you. If They made a "mistake" and actually gave you what you thopught you were bidding on, then keep it. Misleading people is the same as stealing in my book. I love Carnival, but now avoid the art auctions like the plague, unless its to get a kick out of seeing people pay a lot of money for junk.

 

 

well, i bought a Dali (framed) for $500 and brought home to insure and it appraised for $3000 and my in-laws bought a piece for $1500 (framed) and when they took to get insured the person offered them $6000 before even appraising. So I think it depends on what you buy...yeah a $60 piece ceratinly might be only $60, but there are times..."if you know a little about art" that there are a deal to be had at the auction.

[dlbark1]

Since PW doesn't seem to be contacting you, I would get the painting appraised for insurance purposes. If the painting is of a high value, you need to document it, and if it is high enough value, a rider on your insurance may be necassary.

 

Maybe your insurance agent nows of someone who will appraise it for you.

 

Bottom line hang it up enjoy it, and relax it is yours.

[Timmys_mom]

AT what point would it be harassment if they keep calling ?

As soon as she says "Don't call me again" the next time they dial her number, it is harassment.

[arlanamay]

any new information from PW or Carnival?

 

Here is what I wrote to Carnival and then there response. It was in my e-mail this morning.

 

What I wrote:

From: Marlana Effertz (effertz1@yahoo.com)

Date: Thursday, February 23, 2006 04:32 PM

To: Carnival Cruise Lines (guestinfo@carnival.com)

Subject: Past Sailing

 

I was on the Conquest 1-22 sailing and went to all the art auctions. I purchased a piece that I had to take of the ship myself. When I received the the letter of authenticity it did not seem like the info was the same as the art I had bid on purchased and took off the ship. I called the Park West Gallery and now they are harrassing me give back the painting. They say the auctioneer made a mistake and should not have auctioned it at such a low price. They said that I need to send it back or give them $5000. I'm quite upset and don't feel I have a legally need to do either of those. Can you be of any assistance to me? I have been posting on the Cruise Critic board under the thread "Art Auction Dilema" and the consencus is with me.

 

There response:

 

Dear Ms. Effertz:

 

Thank you for taking the time to e-mail us concerning the art auctions held on board.

 

The Art Auctions on board are operated by Park West Galleries. Any inquiries regarding returns, refunds, purchases or services rendered should be forwarded to the following address for their information and handling:

 

Park West Galleries

29469 Northwestern Hwy

Southfield, MI 48034

1-800-521-9654

 

We are confident your inquiry will be handled expeditiously. Please understand that Park West Galleries is a private contractor and Carnival Cruise Lines cannot be held liable or responsible for their business decisions. We sincerely regret the situation you have described and hope it is resolved to your mutual satisfaction.

 

 

Cordially,

 

Internet Specialist

Carnival Cruise Lines

Website: http://www.carnival.com

 

Not quite what I was hoping for but I honestly didn't think Carnival would get involved. Nice of them to read it an answer me back though.

[arlanamay]

Shoot, I just reread what I wrote them and well man oh man I need to start proof reading my e-mail. YIKES!!!

[sea_u_onboard]

I got the same response when I called them about the Spa. I didn't think they would help - but it's always worth a shot. They said that they do take the input seriously and consider it when deciding to renew contracts and such. Not sure how much of that is true or some of the contracted services would have changed long ago.

 

I agree - get the piece appraised for insurance purposes, hang it and enjoy it - it's yours.

[nrdsb4]

Shoot, I just reread what I wrote them and well man oh man I need to start proof reading my e-mail. YIKES!!!

 

Yes, spell check only does so much. You can spell something correctly but use it incorrectly and spell check won't catch it ("there" instead of "their"). Well written correspondence is helpful in matters such as these. I read about a study once that showed that poorly written complaint letters were given less attention than those that were short, succinct, and well written.

 

I notice that I have to check my work much more closely when I have written it while angry or upset.

 

In your case, however, you are SO in the right that I doubt you could hurt your case no matter how you communicate it!

[benjidog]

arlanamay I'm also with you 100%. I still think it's a good idea that you wrote Carnival. Even though they don't want to be involved, they at least know about it if things go further (but hopefully this is the end of it).

 

I don't usually read the Carnival boards, but on Royal Caribbean there was a thread that said we had to read this. Boy were they right.:D

[clingandclatter]

WOW! Talk about shady practices! I guess it is not uncommon for the art auctions on board to be bait & switch? I've never attended one, but have passed by when they were going on and I remember thinking how fake the whole thing seemed to be. I guess it is.

 

I guess a good lesson for anyone buying artwork in the future would be to videotape or take lots of pictures during the auctions in which you are bidding so you have some proof that X painting is what you were bidding on, not something else. Or do they not let you do that. I bet they wouldn't just so that the auction companies can harrass you as they are now.

 

You really should get it appraised and have it for insurance purposes. Not saying that they'd resort to down and dirty methods, but wouldn't it be "funny" if one day you find your house broken into and the only thing gone is that painting. Now you have a COA and it's for something else. I'm not saying that they would do that, but they DO have your address. Take pictures of it on your wall, in your house, with a newspaper showing today's date. You really need to protect yourself.

 

Oh, and if any Park West people are reading this, you can be sure I will never be a customer. I don't care that you have thousands of satisfied customers. One really bad situation is enough to turn me off forever. For this reason I will never ever in my life fly on ATA Airlines ever, but that's another story! :)

 

Good luck with YOUR painting. There really have to be laws out there to protect the consumer. Otherwise who's to say this wouldn't be happening ALL over the place.

[jerick]

Clingandclatter, I think you are blowing this out of proportion. The bottom line is that Park West apparently made a costly mistake and there is no hint that they have done or are going to do anything illegal to fix it. I can understand their desire to get the painting back. I also believe the OP should protect her rights in this matter and not do anything she isn't legally required to do.

 

Park West and the cruise lines they work with (not just Carnival) have reputations to maintain. Feel free to not buy anything from them, but you shouldn't make accusations or inferences about the company that you have no knowledge about.

 

Btw, I am not associated with Park West, nor have I bought anything from them, but I have attended some of their auctions.

 

Jeff

[clingandclatter]

I really don't think I'm that "out of proportion". I am not going to deal with a company who faced with a mistake of their own chooses to harrass someone over it. Period. I don't care that I haven't bought anything, have any dealings with them, whatever. It is not worth my time or money to give business to someone that I don't agree with their methods. Plain and simple.

 

I did say that I didn't think they would get "dirty" but in this day & age who's to say. Good they have reputations to maintain and they should do so. Maintain them. In a good way. I've been reading online about other results from auctions and there's a lot of similar incidents with extremely dissatisfied people. They should all be taken with a grain of salt as it is only one person's point of view. I know this. I read hotel reviews that are mixed and then go there and see both perspectives. Do I feel the same way about the hotel? Not necessarily. But when I'm planning to spend a lot of money on ANYTHING be it artwork, car, real estate, etc. I'm not going to people who I feel can't be trusted to some reasonable level.

 

This is like going to a yard sale and buying something. Then I find out it's worth a ton of money, as well as the people who sold it originally finding out it's worth a lot of money and asking for it back. The people selling it made the mistake. I would hope that they would have proper channels in place for making sure expensive mistakes don't happen. That is obviously not the case. And if their insurance rates rise for THEIR mistake, well that's THEIR problem, not mine or anyone else who benefits from their mistake.

[Top-Cat]

I wonder... Would Park West not have any type of insurance that covers their blunder??

[suziehmkr]

I guess a good lesson for anyone buying artwork in the future would be to videotape or take lots of pictures during the auctions in which you are bidding so you have some proof that X painting is what you were bidding on, not something else. Or do they not let you do that. I bet they wouldn't just so that the auction companies can harrass you as they are now.

We bought some art from Park West on a RCCL cruise in 2004. We did take pictures of the pieces that we bought and I did match them up when they came in... just to be safe. I had heard many times on these boards about the wrong artwork being sent. We had no problems with them... but we are reading this thread daily to keep up. Very interesting!

[breal6]

Just a bit off the original topic. I purchased art at one of the auctions on board and PW sent me the wrong piece in the mail. When I contacted them, they immediatly rectified the situation. They sent me the correct piece which I received overnight delivery. I called them back to ask how I go about returning the wrong piece of art to them. I was told " keep it, hang it or do whatever I like with it."

 

Although they corrected the mistake quickly, I have never returned to another auction. They told me loud and clear the value they place on their "artwork" when they had such disregard for the piece sent by mistake.

 

By the way I sold the piece at a garage sale for $5.00. I guess I need to find the people who bought it and tell them they owe me a lot more cause I found out the piece was worth $230.00, lol. yeah right!!!

[cruiselover**]

I agree with clingandclatter who writes that this situation is similar to a seller at a yard sale finding out that an item they sold is worth more than it sold for. Good luck trying to collect any additional money later on! How often do they show on "Antiques Roadshow" about someone buying an item for $10.00 and its worth hundreds or even thousands? We always hear that the 'buyer beware', but shouldn't the seller too?

 

If Park West is so concerned about all this, why aren't they going after their own auctioneer? Shouldn't the employee be responsible for the mistake?

 

I do hope this all turns out in favor of the original poster. She deserves to keep this painting no matter what!

[RRCRUISE]

I'm a little surprised that CCL doesn't want to get involved as it reflects bad on CCL. I know CCL doesn't own PW, but PW does pay them a fee to be able to hold their auctions on CCL ships. I would think that CCL would get involved just as they say they would with problems that arise with stores that they "back" on ports shopping stores "lists" that they hand out to the passengers at ports of call.

[Mach1]

WOW! what a saga this thread is, very interesting indeed! I spent most of my day reading through all the pages. I really want to know the out come! I hope the paining is worth big $$$:)

 

Arlanamay...You have all our support, and by no means give them the painting! Have you had a chance to have it appraised yet? Keep us all updated, we are pulling for you.

 

Make sure to document all the conversations between you and PW, and tell them that everything from here on out should be in writing.

 

Good Luck!

[txstephie]

I've been glued to this thread for days now....Please keep us posted.:D

[Nancyquilts]

What a lovely painting - I hope you and DH enjoy it for many years. Following up on a previous suggestion, if they call you, I would get a taping machine and tell them they are being taped. That might cause them to be correct in their dealings with you.

This is posted on the Royal Caribbean board - if you think it would be of value, I'm sure people who have sailed on other cruise lines would be happy to post a link. Nancy

[SUZCRUZ]

This thread made it over to my CC board on RCCL,= Interesting Reading.

So much fun to read and can't wait for more of the developing story.

I too say, keep it, it's yours!

Good luck.

Can't wait for the appraisal!

[Iamthesea]

Have you heard anything else from Park West?

[BlueHerons]

Did you ever hear back from one of the big auction houses?

 

If I'm not mistaken, to get an accurate appraisal and a true certificate of authenticity, you need to get a expert on that particular artist not just any art expert issue them.

 

There have been many cases of Picasso not being a Picasso even with papers. Also, Salvador Dali sold blank sheets of posterboard with his signature for later prints so auction houses now consider his signed reproductions worthless.

 

One of the big auction houses could certainly send you in that direction. If not, start calling the big museums, MMoA and MoMA.

[cincicruisers]

Ok, now I am going to be late for work b/c I had to read all ten pages of this thread. Very interesting story. I am with the majority. You bid on that particular painting, carried the painting off the ship with you, its yours. Enjoy and good luck. I hope everything works out in your favor!