Seabourn Jan Memo - just some questions

[klkaylor78]

Sorry for the bold but wanted to use it to separate my comments/questions (bold) from Seabourn's (not bold)

 

So this is part of a memo I got from Seabourn and after letting it sit and digest I have some questions as to what they really mean and what is practically happening on the ships v. the rules.

So the action item of the note - with a question in bold after the action item

• In accordance with health authority directives, our cruises will be operated as vaccinated cruises, as defined by the CDC, with guests and crew vaccination rates approaching 100%. These cruises are available for guests who have received their final dose of an authorized/approved COVID-19 vaccine at least 14 days prior to the beginning of the cruise and have proof of vaccination, in accordance with CDC guidelines.  What is meant by final does - given that one or two booster are now being given? How about those with mixed vaccine?  Seems like they need to be more definitive as to booster or no booster.
• Our Seabourn team members that are eligible have received, or are now receiving, their booster shots and many of our guests have also received their boosters as well.
• All guests and crew are frequently reminded to monitor their health and report any COVID-19 symptoms immediately. 
• We conduct regular COVID-19 testing of our entire crew.
• All guests are required to wear masks at all times when indoors, except when eating or drinking or when in their own suites and when outdoors if in large gatherings where physical distancing cannot be maintained.
• As advised by health authorities, guests are recommended to use higher grade masks indoors and we are now providing KN-95 masks for guests. So will we now have to wear an n95 or equivalent mask indoors? 
• The shore excursions provided by Seabourn include additional health and safety standards overseen by local officials.
• We disinfect all public spaces and suites with increased frequency. While it may be help for norovirus or influenza why do this for Covid? It has proven not to survive on surfaces so....
• Our HVAC systems now feature enhanced circulation of fresh air, upgraded filtration, and UV treatment.

Has anyone sailed under these new rules?

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by klkaylor78
fix style

[Covepointcruiser]

We have sailed under the 100% vaccination rule.   Later sailings in Greece also required that masks be worn when inside or in crowded areas.   This is what I would expect on our 1/30 Ovation cruise.   Just wish they would test us just prior to boarding as they did in Greece.   Allowing tests two days before gives passengers 48 hrs to catch COVID.    I know there will still be a chance you would bring COVID onboard, but testing pier side would lessen that chance.

[babydoc2]

Nothing new here. Final dose of vaccine refers to second Pfizer or Moderna, or first (and only) J&J. Until CDC changes definition of fully vaccinated, boosters are not part of the requirement to be "fully vaccinated". As far as masks, SB "recommends" higher grade masks such as N95 or KN95, even providing the latter, but it is not "required". The cleaning of surfaces, as you note, is not just about COVID, and it makes sense that they would address this public health step as part of their overall attempt at keeping cruising as safe as possible.

 

Just as @Covepoint stated above, these were the rules/recs in October when we were on Ovation and what we will expect when we sail February 13. The only difference is the lack of testing pre-embarkation. I am curious about that and the reason behind it.

[Utopia1]

49 minutes ago, babydoc2 said:

Nothing new here. Final dose of vaccine refers to second Pfizer or Moderna, or first (and only) J&J. Until CDC changes definition of fully vaccinated, boosters are not part of the requirement to be "fully vaccinated". As far as masks, SB "recommends" higher grade masks such as N95 or KN95, even providing the latter, but it is not "required". The cleaning of surfaces, as you note, is not just about COVID, and it makes sense that they would address this public health step as part of their overall attempt at keeping cruising as safe as possible.

 

Just as @Covepoint stated above, these were the rules/recs in October when we were on Ovation and what we will expect when we sail February 13. The only difference is the lack of testing pre-embarkation. I am curious about that and the reason behind it.

I don't understand the lack of testing before boarding either.  Does anyone know how booked the February 13 cruise is?  It seems that COVID peaked on the holiday cruise when they were heavily booked .It also peaked in New York City at the same time.

No matter what happens as long as the ships sails I'll be there.

[babydoc2]

3 hours ago, Lois10028 said:

I don't understand the lack of testing before boarding either.  Does anyone know how booked the February 13 cruise is?  It seems that COVID peaked on the holiday cruise when they were heavily booked .It also peaked in New York City at the same time.

No matter what happens as long as the ships sails I'll be there.

We feel the same. Feeling like the surge will be close to done by then.

[cruiseej]

5 hours ago, Lois10028 said:

It seems that COVID peaked on the holiday cruise when they were heavily booked .It also peaked in New York City at the same time. 

 

But since most people on the cruise won't be from New York, and the rest of the country isn't yet declining,  we're not out of the woods yet. 😉 Hopefully that will have changed a month from now when your cruise is scheduled. (We're booked on Odyssey at the end of February, and are hoping things will be much better by then.)  

[Utopia1]

My point was everyone should also be tested before boarding.  Many of us will be traveling for one or two days before boarding---- I was fine when I left my ship on December 23 and then tested positive Dec. 26 at home.

Have a great cruise!

[cruiseej]

3 hours ago, Lois10028 said:

My point was everyone should also be tested before boarding.

 

Oh, I agree. I think almost everyone does, especially after hearing about how cases increased on cruises where people weren't screened before boarding. Until testing positive for Covid isn't a major alarm causing quarantine and possibly being thrown off the ship, testing before boarding to weed out anyone who is unknowingly already positive can cut down on the spread of the virus onboard. It seems like common sense. Some day, we'll reach a point where a positive Covid test doesn't require lockdown, at which point the amount of testing can decrease.

[klkaylor78]

Let me first appologize to the monitors if this is too far out from their rules on covid discussion and if it is "cut" I understand

I agree with testing to try to make the cohort of folks (staff and cruisers) on the ship a covid free zone, especially as we have 7 days at sea. However the question is really when to test.  Best data is that it is 3-5 days from a clinically relevent exposure to a positive test for the exposed person.  So day of embarcation testing is not that great is you are trying to identify those who were exposed/contaminated during travel to the port.  Even then there is not a concensus at to whether asymptomatic but test (molecular/antigen) positive people can spread/shead the virus.  I think that Seabourn's choice to use two days before boarding a reasonable approach.

If you assume that every person is contaminated(the only safe zero tollerance view) then you would have do bring folks individually/close cohorts to the embarcation hall (or have multiple geographicly separated paths), do a test, quarantine for 15-30 min, get the results, then release them to finish check-in and begin to mingle, or isolate that location for a positive test untill the people are removed and the location disinfected. A very difficult time consuming event. Then we should test everyone again at 3-5 days to identify those who were contaminated via travel. 

Seabourn's choice to use two days before boarding a reasonable approach from a logistics standpoint. Keeps positive folks out of the terminal, prevents them from exposing other quests, and stops the sad issue of turn folks away at the pier. For those that usually arrive one day before departure it lets them test before getting on the plane to get to the port. Also good for the traveling population. But it does miss those who are exposed during travel.

[babydoc2]

A poster on the January 11 Ovation cruise says they were tested at the pier.

[klkaylor78]

I know that Seabourn stated that if you tested but did not have your results they would test you at checkin but you had to have started the process per their note when we sailed with them in Dec.  I think they tested at the port in Barbados but that country had a very strict testing protocol and was different than the US embarcation protocol

This is the link - lots of good data

https://www.seabourn.com/en_US/health-safety/us-travel-requirements.html

[twodjs]

13 hours ago, babydoc2 said:

A poster on the January 11 Ovation cruise says they were tested at the pier.

Correct - We all had to provide a negative test 2 days before AND Seabourn tested everyone at the pier for our Jan. 11 Ovation cruise. We were also all tested prior to our first port call in Cabo. All seems to be under control so far as of Jan. 21st. And no, the KN-95s are not a requirement but recommended and one is provided by Seabourn at the start of the cruise. Masks are required even in the gym - no exceptions - and a mask will be provided if you "forget" yours. Crew and guests are serious about preventing an outbreak on this cruise. 

 

 

[sfvoyage]

2 hours ago, twodjs said:

the KN-95s are not a requirement but recommended and one is provided by Seabourn at the start of the cruise. Masks are required even in the gym - no exceptions - and a mask will be provided if you "forget" yours. Crew and guests are serious about preventing an outbreak on this cruise.

 

 

That is good to hear, because none of the crew was enforcing mask usage amongst the guests when we were on the ship before. Are you saying that if a guest is not wearing their mask or wearing it below their nose, staff will approach and remind the guest promptly?

 

Are all the guests now wearing their mask in the Grand salon and during trivia, for instance?

 

What about on the excursion tour buses?  Are the local tour guides just making the announcement regarding mask usage, or are they actively enforcing mask usage now?

[twodjs]

Most of the guests ARE wearing masks during trivia and Ross makes it a point to remind all. The guests on this cruise seem to be more aware, probably because of the higher level of spread on the previous cruise. Haven't done excursions. 

[Bernergirl]

This is an interesting discussion. I have been following a similar on on Azamara's forums as we are supposed to be on a TA on their Pursuit in the fall.  We had our last 2 TA's on the Quest cancelled and are now rebooked for TA spring 2023 on the Ovation.  We were on O's Marina TA this fall and we did a Covid Bionix antigen 2 days prior to departure at our hotel and then another antigen test pier side through O.  There were no Covid positive guests that I am aware of on the cruise and I was trying to monitor that information. That was November and it was a low point for numbers. I am more concerned about where we might be moved should we test positive. Azamara has made it a policy to move passengers into dark, window only cabins and some of the experiences have been horrendous (see Azamara covid positive forum).  Couples have also been separated.  I want clarification, more than what was in the letter, about those particular issues. We would prefer if everyone was tested 2-3 days before the cruise and then pier side.  Who knows what next variant will be coming out in the next months? We only now that science tells us there will be more, unfortunately, as long there is a reservoir of unvaccinated acting as a pitre dish for the virus.

[Bernergirl]

Just now, Bernergirl said:

This is an interesting discussion. I have been following a similar on on Azamara's forums as we are supposed to be on a TA on their Pursuit in the fall.  We had our last 2 TA's on the Quest cancelled and are now rebooked for TA spring 2023 on the Ovation.  We were on O's Marina TA this fall and we did a Covid Bionix antigen 2 days prior to departure at our hotel and then another antigen test pier side through O.  There were no Covid positive guests that I am aware of on the cruise and I was trying to monitor that information. That was November and it was a low point for numbers. I am more concerned about where we might be moved should we test positive. Azamara has made it a policy to move passengers into dark, window only cabins and some of the experiences have been horrendous (see Azamara covid positive forum).  Couples have also been separated.  I want clarification, more than what was in the letter, about those particular issues. We would prefer if everyone was tested 2-3 days before the cruise and then pier side.  Who knows what next variant will be coming out in the next months? We only now that science tells us there will be more, unfortunately, as long there is a reservoir of unvaccinated acting as a pitre dish for the virus.

That other forum is "Quarantine on Azamara" sorry for the wrong name 😉 Alice.

[sfvoyage]

1 hour ago, twodjs said:

Most of the guests ARE wearing masks during trivia and Ross makes it a point to remind all.

I guess you indirectly answered my question:  general reminders, but no enforcement (otherwise, everyone should be wearing masks during trivia, not "most").

 

I was on the Ovation for 2 separate voyages totaling 7 weeks during Oct-Dec, and general announcements started to be made in December when caseloads started to ramp up on the ship.  However, no enforcements were made by anyone.  I saw guests with no mask talking to the ship doctor, guests with no mask talking to various guest services staff at SB Square, guests with no mask walking around passing by officers and other crew members, and nobody said a word to them.

 

While it's good to hear that the mask usage is up on this voyage, have you seen any staff approaching individual guests to remind them of mask usage?  I am interested to know whether the staff have finally been empowered/enlightened/encouraged by management to actually enforce their own mask policy in light of the very challenging holiday cruise just prior to the current voyage.  (Luckily, I disembarked just prior to that cruise, but friends were on board and kept me up to date with the heavy caseloads amongst guests and crew.)

Edited January 21, 2022 by sfvoyage

[gwesq]

On 1/20/2022 at 12:01 PM, klkaylor78 said:

 

If you assume that every person is contaminated(the only safe zero tollerance view) then you would have do bring folks individually/close cohorts to the embarcation hall (or have multiple geographicly separated paths), do a test, quarantine for 15-30 min, get the results, then release them to finish check-in and begin to mingle, or isolate that location for a positive test untill the people are removed and the location disinfected. A very difficult time consuming event. Then we should test everyone again at 3-5 days to identify those who were contaminated via travel. 

 

Actually, this IS what is being done. We experienced that exact procedure boarding cruises in NY & Miami. Went smoothly in NY, not so much in Miami. But we heard that they got their act together in Miami so it went smoother there on later cruises. 

[Utopia1]

Were the 2 cruises on Seabourn?   Every cruise line has their own procedures?  I hope Seabourn follows the procedures you describe.

[cruiseej]

The standard all the luxury cruise lines were using when cruising resumed last summer was pier-side testing, where you took a test, sat socially distanced and waited for your test results; once clear, you were free to complete check-in and board. In some cases, depending on the country, an earlier test was needed in order to enter the country. Once onboard, different cruise lines employed different policies. Viking tested people every day; Silversea at mid-voyage, and Seabourn not once aboard. But that time period of June through mid-December was different. Switching gears for Omicron went better for some and worse for others... sometimes even on different cruises on the same cruise line.

 

In general, it seems that testing before travel, testing at the pier before boarding, and testing on about the 3rd day of a cruise, should cast a pretty good net over catching infected people. The pre-boarding testing seems necessary to prevent someone already infected from boarding and speeding the disease unknowingly for a few days. It's unknown why Seabourn didn't do pier-side testing on the Ovation holiday cruise from Miami; I don't think we know if it was due to thinking it was safe, trying to save money, or trying not to get in a fight with Florida politicians.

 

Only Viking's testing of everyone every day casts an even tighter net. On the other end, Silversea recently tried dropping the mid-cruise testing in a move that looked like they were trying to migrate to a don't-mask, don't-tell policy of surviving with Covid in the world. But some countries have subsequently required they test everyone in order to allow passenger off at their ports. As cruise lines get more data on how many vaxed & boosted passengers who test positive require any medical care, it may pave the way to treating Covid like other colds and flus, without constant testing and long quarantines. I just don't think we're there yet.

[sfvoyage]

1 hour ago, cruiseej said:

It's unknown why Seabourn didn't do pier-side testing on the Ovation holiday cruise from Miami; I don't think we know if it was due to thinking it was safe, trying to save money, or trying not to get in a fight with Florida politicians.

Not only the holiday cruise, but the one prior (departing on Dec 10th) as well.  We were surprised (and not in a good way) at the lack of pier-side testing on Dec 10th and figured it's because of Florida politics.  However, I read that some other cruise lines required testing at the pier in Miami prior to embarkation around the same time, so it was probably a combination of Florida politics and Seabourn's desire to save money and not wanting to know the true picture??? 

[twodjs]

Focusing on the present, remember Seabourn DID test at the pier when we began our cruise out of L.A. Jan. 11. We are dreading our arrival in Miami where almost no one cares to mask up. Stupid politics! We were there at the end of Oct. and couldn't wait to fly out.

And responding to another post asking about masks in the club during trivia, any time drinks and popcorn are offered, people will be removing their masks to munch - however most (not all) are replacing them after a nibble. We haven't seen compliance during dancing at night - so are avoiding that space for now. The only times I have seen crew intervene is at the gym and in the Colonnade (masks required while near the buffet).

 

 

[Utopia1]

I cruised for 56 nights with a total of 2 covid cases aboard the ship.  December 23, before boarding my flight, I spent a couple of hours in the crowded Centurion lounge at Miami Airport.  Most of the people were maskless- and enjoying the self serve buffet.  I decided to enjoy a cup of coffee- and took off my mask. Four days later I tested positive for Covid.  I believe I picked up covid in the lounge.

 

I return to Miami 3 weeks from today for the Feb 13 cruise.  I wish Seabourn would test everyone before boarding the ship.

 

[cruiseej]

42 minutes ago, Lois10028 said:

I cruised for 56 nights with a total of 2 covid cases aboard the ship.

 

In the summer and fall, it was pretty easy — and the norm — to cruise without Covid aboard. There were a few Covid cases here and there on Seabourn and other the luxury lines' ships, but most people got through without problems. Omicron in December really changed things, because it is so easily transmissible even among fully vaxxed and boosted people. Hopefully, the big drop in cases we've seen in the past week in the northeast of the US indicates this surge is beginning to end. And hopefully that foretells a return to fewer problems and less stress about cruising as we get into the second half of winter and the spring. 

[twodjs]

4 hours ago, Lois10028 said:

I return to Miami 3 weeks from today for the Feb 13 cruise.  I wish Seabourn would test everyone before boarding the ship.

 

Seabourn DID test everyone at the pier at the start of our Jan. 11 cruise from L.A. Hopefully this becomes the norm.