Princess Cruise Tours train from Ship to Fairbanks Question

[swdke]

Looking to book a Princess cruise and land tour in 2023.  I always had the impression that land tour might include a train that would pick up at the ship's port, i.e. Whittier, and can take all the way from Ship to Fairbanks via train with stops at McKinley Lodge, Denali Lodge, and Fairbanks Lodge.  But as I look at some of these tours, I'm not seeing that.  For example, one shows a Coach from the Ship to Anchorage, then Coach to McKinley Lodge, then the "train" from McKinley Lodge to Denali Lodge, and then back to a coach from Denali Lodge to Fairbanks.  Not exactly the train excursion I assumed from Ship to Fairbanks.  What am I missing, or does such a Princess rail tour not actually exist from Ship to Fairbanks?  Thanks for all your help.

[Northern Aurora]

As I understand your post you are looking for a land tour which only uses the Alaska Railroad as the means of transport.  Is that correct?  

 

In any event I am aware that several years ago (possibly as long as a decade ago) Princess began to use more motor coaches to transport their customers.  In particular, while it takes about 2.5 hours by motor coach between Fairbanks and the entrance to Denali National Park, the time required to do the same distance by rail is four hours.

[don't-use-real-name]

The land tours are not exclusively with the Alaska Railroad chartered or otherwise.

There will be times that the BUS will be the only timely method to coordinate the

movement between tour activities - this especially around the Denali Park.

 

Of note the train ride (in season) from Anchorage to/from Fairbanks is 12 hours -

At the end of these trains it is common to see the Princess and Holland-America

cars - operating full or deadheading empty between points.  

[GTJ]

4 hours ago, swdke said:

I always had the impression that land tour might include a train that would pick up at the ship's port, i.e. Whittier, and can take all the way from Ship to Fairbanks via train with stops at McKinley Lodge, Denali Lodge, and Fairbanks Lodge. But as I look at some of these tours, I'm not seeing that. * * * What am I missing, or does such a Princess rail tour not actually exist from Ship to Fairbanks?

You're really asking a two-part question. First, can one travel by railroad from Whittier to Fairbanks; second, if so, are there tours that include such rail travel?

 

The answer to the first part is yes, but not continuously on a single train service. The map below illustrates the various passenger train services in central Alaska. As you can see, there is no single train that connects Whittier with Fairbanks. To make that trip by railroad, you would need to utilize multiple trains, stopping enroute to change trains, possibly requiring an overnight stay. That, by itself, would seem not to be a deterrent for making the trip entirely by train, as you have indicated a desire to alight from the train, and to stay overnight at several intermediate lodges. So there is a clear "yes" to the first part of the question.

 

The answer to the second part is probably no, at least to the extent of booking a single tour that is entirely rail (as outlined in the answer to the first part of the question). To the best of my knowledge, no single tour does all that you would like to do. Such a tour might exist, but I do not know of it.

 

To do what you want might require multiple tours, or a tour plus making some independent arrangements. For example, you should be able to find a tour, from Princess Cruises, that includes travel on the McKinley Express train from Whittier to McKinley (including a motorcoach transfer between the station and the Mt. McKinley Princess Wilderness Lodge, and return), plus travel on the McKinley Explorer train from McKinley to Denali, and a stay at the Denali Princess Wilderness Lodge. If not, then you could arrange independently travel from McKinley to Denali on any of three trains: the McKinley Explorer, the Wilderness Express, or the Denali Star. Here, too, there would be a motorcoach transfer between the station and the Denali Princess Wilderness Lodge, and return. In any case, you would then make independent arrangements to travel from Denali to Fairbanks on either of two trains: the Wilderness Express or the Denali Star. (Note that the Denali Star and the Wilderness Express are combined, and operate on the same schedule; the McKinley Explorer operates separately on its own schedule.) It is almost certainly the case that doing what you desire will require some effort on your part, possibly even forgoing one or more elements of the tour so that all the pieces you desire fit together. If you're not facile with making these types of arrangements yourself, then you might want to engage a travel agent or planner to do so on your behalf.

 

I don't understand why there are not tours that do what you desire. I would think that many people would like to do it all by railroad . . . especially railroad enthusiasts. I wish I could provide some reasoning.

Alaska Railroad Map and Service 2.pdf

[Northern Aurora]

According to an article I read a number of years ago, which was actually about the ARR revenue operations, the issue which the cruise lines have faced is that customers complained about too much travel siting on a rail car.  For example, the trip between Fairbanks and the entrance to Denali National Park is about two hours longer by rail than it is by motor coach. And in that case the trip my motor coach is more scenic too.  Not everyone is a rail enthusiast.  

 

While I  haven't bothered to look at the attached pdf someone who tries to put together a trip from Whittier to Fairbanks needs to understand that there most likely will be an overnight in Anchorage.  And the ARR station isn't close to the Princess McKinley Wilderness Lodge at all, but is located in Talkeetna.  Talkeetna, assuming no road construction, is about a 45 minute drive from the Princess McKinley Wilderness Lodge.  

[don't-use-real-name]

Something else to remember is the seasonal AKRR trains operate in Day Light hours time.

Who would want to see the scenic sights in dusk twilight Alaska Mid-Night-Sun.

Day time the rail traffic is passenger trains - at night that is when the freights take over.

 

As noted in GTJ pdf file the Chartered Cruise trains do not connect with the scheduled

AKRR trains - an overnight - break in travel is required to create such a connection.

 

The cruise port rail traffic WILL ALWAYS require an overnight stay in Anchorage to take the

daily (seasonal) Denali Star train running between Anchorage and Fairbanks {v-v}.

There are two Denali trains one leaving Fairbanks 8am arriving Anchorage 8pm and the

sister trip leaving Anchorage 8am arriving Fairbanks 8pm. At the mid-point of the

route these trains exchange crew (each crew returning to its origin base - saves AKRR

crew dorm lodging expenses).

 

Yes the buses travel the points between sites faster - road speed 55 mph - while the AKRR

average speed is 35-45 mph and because of the scenic nature of the trip may stop one

or more time to view the sites animals and other interesting stuff.

The railroad tracks are always under continuous upgrading and safety improvements just

like the George Parks Highway #3 in some places built on what appears to be frozen moving terrain.

 

The more you inquire - read about - and learn about this dynamic Last Frontier should amaze

you to no end - - -

Alaska is a land of development - Build it and they will come - they have already started !

 

Also note that airline flights have time versus distance issues- at a minimum of 4 hours to

connect with the lower 48 (Seattle) - PLAN and THINK carefully what travel arrangements

you are concocting - build in that insurance extra day overnight to make things work smoothly.

 

 

 

[GTJ]

53 minutes ago, don't-use-real-name said:

As noted * * * the Chartered Cruise trains do not connect with the scheduled AKRR trains - an overnight - break in travel is required to create such a connection.The cruise port rail traffic WILL ALWAYS require an overnight stay in Anchorage to take the daily (seasonal) Denali Star train running between Anchorage and Fairbanks {v-v).

Yes, if connecting to or from the Denali Star train, an overnight stay in Anchorage is required because the Denali Star is the first train departing northbound from Anchorage, and the last train arriving southbound into Anchorage, and no other trains directly connect with that train in Anchorage. However, Princess Cruises and Holland America Line saw that dilemma, and arranged, for their passengers, trains that operate directly between Whittier and either McKinley (McKinley Express) or Denali (Denali Express), both trains bypassing the passenger stop in Anchorage, and allowing a single-day journey without having to stay overnight in Anchorage. Indeed, the cruise lines market these services as "Direct-to-the-Wilderness" to highlight the fact that no connection or overnight stay in Anchorage is required. Anchorage was not enumerated on the list of places desired for a visit, so the use of either of these "Direct-to-the-Wilderness" trains might constitute a good plan, at least for a portion of the larger travel plan. Again, refer to the map previously provided for further details.

53 minutes ago, don't-use-real-name said:

Yes the buses travel the points between sites faster * * *

If a goal is to travel through Alaska as quickly as possible, then one might always choose to travel by bus instead of railroad, for the train is universally slower than the parallel bus services. (Indeed, you might just as well travel by airplane, instead of bus, train, or cruise vessel, for aircraft travel even faster.) Generally, one chooses to travel by train for reasons other than fastest travel. Perhaps greater comfort and accommodations, maybe being less to motion sickness, possibly being a railroad enthusiast. Consider as well that one may have traveled many days to get to central Alaska, and "saving" 90 minutes of travel time by using a bus, instead of a train, between Denali and Fairbanks (or between other points), may not make much a difference in the overall scheme of things . . . how else might you use that 90 minutes saved? People who live in Alaska, and have viewed the scenery many times, might value travel time greatly; but that may not be the same for those not living there . . . sometimes it is best not to view the choices not from the perspective of an Alaskan local but from the perspective of a tourist or visitor. The point is that racing through Alaska as quickly as possible may not the determining factor is choosing how to travel. Think of the various attributes of travel, and balance them accordingly based on one's own values and preferences.

Edited November 27, 2022 by GTJ

[disneyochem]

We are train buffs, or at least my hubby is!  If you want to travel by train to Fairbanks, I suggest you do it yourself!  It can be done.  Planning such a trip is easy to do.

 

You can take a transfer from Whittier to Anchorage (use Princess or an independent company).   I would suggest you take an independent tour that allows you to stop and visit sights along the way to Anchorage—Alaskan Wildlife Center, glaciers, etc.  Spend the night in Anchorage and get on the train the next day for the trip north.  It is a 12 hour trip to Fairbanks.  We went all the way to Fairbanks but broke the trip up over 10 days.  We got off in Talkeetna for a couple of nights, then on to Denali for about a week and finally up to Fairbanks for a couple of days.  We flew home from there.

 

My advice is to book a hotel in Denali, Talkeetna and Fairbanks that have a train shuttle. Some lodges do not and it’s difficult to get anywhere without a car.  By doing it yourself, you’ll be able to stay at some remarkable lodges.  Recommend the Alaskan Lodge at Talkeetna, Camp Denali, Denali Backcountry Lodge, McKinleys Cabins in Denali and Pike’s Landing in Fairbanks.

 

I also recommend traveling in gold class—certainly an elevated experience!  Gold class was sold out for our dates from Denali to Fairbanks so we rode in the adventure class.  Still a great trip!