The Elbe river 2023 - not just water levels

[AnhaltER1960]

On 6/4/2023 at 8:41 PM, notamermaid said:

Viking offers the „Elegant Elbe“ itinerary in June but then the next departure is in October.

 

 

notamermaid

 

 

Indeed, Viking are pausing their Elbe cruises, but not that long. They run until mid-July and continue by mid-September (many of these cruises are sold out and may not show any longer). It remains to be seen, if that will work out, corresponding the water tables. By now the Elbe became a bit low, though there had been a bit of rain in recent days. The current water tables can make maneuvering on the river a bit more difficult, but are not (yet) critical for sailing altogether. 

[notamermaid]

On 6/8/2023 at 1:05 PM, AnhaltER1960 said:

Indeed, Viking are pausing their Elbe cruises, but not that long.

Thank you for pointing that out. I reckon I misread the website.

 

Yesterday I received the preview catalogue of CroisiEurope for 2024. Not much detail in that one of course, but it advertises the cruises on the Elbe and shows that most unusual of itineraries on the river again (with a very long stretch on the Vltava), showcasing the castles of Bohemia. So this has turned out to be popular enough for the company to offer it next year as well. Hmm, website gives some special offers for this year. I think this is the European website: https://www.croisieurope.travel/en/cruise/prague-dresden-castles-bohemia-spectacular-cruise-elbe-vltava-rivers-classic

 

notamermaid

 

[AnhaltER1960]

Now it has happened again. The Czech do withhold water in their locks, so downstream the ships are grounded. Viking have suspended their sailings this week (well, converted into bus tours...). From what Ive heard, Croisieurope also have stopped sailing the Elbe. There is rain in the region righz now, so hopefully cruises will resume soon.

[AnhaltER1960]

Still not enough rain in the source areas of the Elbe, so cruise ships did not resume sailing yet.

[notamermaid]

Thank you. I feared as much, looking at the gauge at Dresden. 75cm. It appears that the Czechs let some water through, judging from the spike in level during the night. Not long enough by any means to create a viable "window of opportunity" for sailing I should think.

 

With more clouds carrying more moisture now and travelling East well into your area and the Czech Republic could we see heavier rain during the night? Radar imaging indicates it is still mostly patches of rain over some areas with isolated heavier showers.

 

notamermaid

 

[AnhaltER1960]

On 6/29/2023 at 10:56 PM, notamermaid said:

With more clouds carrying more moisture now and travelling East well into your area and the Czech Republic could we see heavier rain during the night?

 

notamermaid

 

It looks like the recent rain in eastern Germany did not reach the Bohemian basin. Still very low water discharge from the Moldova and upper Elbe. And therefore way too low water levels downriver - and no sailing this week again.

[notamermaid]

It is well into July and time to have a look at what the river did at Dresden in June:

 

The month started with a still adequate level and we see the river react to rain the following week but it went gradually down from there. The Czech authorities control the level with the reservoirs and dams and this shows as far as Dresden. By the end of the month the level had nearly reached the mean low water line. As AnhalterER1960 has confirmed, this is too low for the river cruise ships. And the low water has continued. Dresden gauge is now at 56cm.

 

While it is raining in the West there is hardly any precipitation in the East. But this is likely to change during tomorrow when localized thunderstorms are forecast for Saxony.

 

notamermaid

 

[AnhaltER1960]

On 7/11/2023 at 9:43 PM, notamermaid said:

It is well into July and time to have a look at what the river did at Dresden in June:

 

 

While it is raining in the West there is hardly any precipitation in the East. But this is likely to change during tomorrow when localized thunderstorms are forecast for Saxony.

 

notamermaid

 

Not much of rain occured in eastern Germany or the Czech Republic. Therefore there still is no sailing on the Elbe. Viking did not resume sailing before their planned summer break. Also CroisiEurope are not sailing.

[notamermaid]

Such a pity. The rain was not widespread or substantial enough to relieve the lack of water in the system of the Elbe. Rhine doing better. Danube up and down, really sketchy and unpredictable.

 

notamermaid

 

[Gboss905]

What is the minimum level on the Elbe that Viking can sail? I know they are special Elbe ships.  

[AnhaltER1960]

12 hours ago, Gboss905 said:

What is the minimum level on the Elbe that Viking can sail? I know they are special Elbe ships.  

The Viking ships, which sail the Elbe, as well as ships of other companies like CroisiEurope, do have a draft of roundabout 90 cm. The also have special propulsion systems. But that proved not enough in dry years.

 

The readings of water levels you find here (like in notamermaids post #32) do NOT give the depth of the navigation channel; they are simply a fixed scale in the water against the water table. The captain will have to do the math then. In recent years readings of the Dresden gauge below 75/80 meant trouble.

[notamermaid]

Low water and sandbanks are also a problem for ferries. The "Amt Neuhaus" near Lüneburg is now out of service. Dredging is needed and the authorities hope that this will be completed in two and a half weeks. A problem for commuters and tourists as a nearby bridge is being renovated.

 

Berlin has a very different problem right now and it is a "spree" - not the Spree river. What is assumed is a lioness has gone for a walk in the suburbs of Berlin and noone knows where she has escaped from. Police are searching for the wild cat: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-suspected-lioness-on-the-loose-outside-berlin/a-66291669

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Has the story reached its end? The lioness is now regarded as a wild boar. No traces of a wild cat have been found, but there are still skeptics who think that there may be a lioness on the loose. A video circulating online is considered genuine. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66265874

 

From the Spree to the Elbe proper: Dresden gauge after a short rise which was the reaction the Czech authorities letting a higher volume of water through is at 53cm.

 

Just to remind people. Viking only sails the Elbe but you can sail from Berlin on the Spree and the Havel to the Elbe. Even further if you want - it would be what I call the Grand European tour North. Big difference to the standard version is that you only hear one or two languages and sail in only one or two countries depending on where you disembark - Germany or the Netherlands.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

So, little is happening on the Elbe in summer, meaning July and August, on the stretch that takes in Dresden, Meißen and Wittenberg. I have had a look at the offers on a German online-only booking website and if you widen your search for the whole Elbe you find several river cruises. Tomorrow you can go from Hamburg to Brandenburg with Plantours, on the 6th you can go from Hamburg to Berlin with CroisiEurope, etc. If you wanted to see the Elbe in summer you could but this is of course still very little river cruise traffic compared to other rivers and even some canals in Germany.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[notamermaid]

We are well into August time to have a look at how the river did at Dresden in July:

 

Overall the river was too low for comfort for river cruise ships. But we know that river cruise companies have adapted their summer schedule accordingly, having reacted in the past few years to annual occurrence of low water. Fluctuations show rainfall but also the Czech authorities releasing additional water from the reservoir. I have recently read in an interview about this procedure. In connection with the excursion boats it was stated that (translated) "the Czech send the rainfall as it comes straight through ((the locks and dam))". The end of the month saw another spike and kept above the MNW line (mean low water).

 

After continued rainfall the situation looks better now and Dresden gauge is currently at 133cm.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Road bridges cross over the Elbe, others carry trains. But this one carries ships. The aqueduct is officially called a "Kanalbrücke", meaning a navigable aqueduct. The Magdeburg Water Bridge is the longest of its kind in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdeburg_Water_Bridge

If you would like to read a few more technical details (or look up other bridges): https://structurae.net/en/structures/magdeburg-canal-bridge

 

I enjoyed this video, only short and I think you do not need to understand the German to appreciate the structure. A reporter of broadcaster NDR cycled along the Elbe and sailed on the Canal. He also crossed the Elbe on a ferry, a special, but old tried and tested, design that works without an engine, the German word for this one is a "Wagengierseilfähre": https://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/nordmagazin/Wo-der-Mittellandkanal-die-Elbe-ueberquert,nordmagazin110162.html

 

notamermaid

 

[Gboss905]

Anybody think Viking will be able to begin cruising the Elbe mid-September?

[notamermaid]

On 8/27/2023 at 6:41 PM, Gboss905 said:

Anybody think Viking will be able to begin cruising the Elbe mid-September?

That is a good question and to be honest I find it difficult to assess. The recent rain has given the Elbe basin quiet a bit of water and the level is good enough now. Depending on what the authorities do, I think there is a chance, but a good chance? No idea.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

What has been CroisiEurope's experience with sailing this year?  I am considering an Elbe cruise in the future and wonder what would happen if they can't sail?

 

[notamermaid]

On 8/30/2023 at 8:16 PM, Host Jazzbeau said:

What has been CroisiEurope's experience with sailing this year?  

AnhaltER1960 mentioned in July that the low water even affected CroisiEurope . The company has very much adapted their itineraries so that the low water normally is not a problem. The ships Elbe Princesse (sailing the itinerary you have posted the map of) and Elbe Princesse II are already well equipped for sailing in low water anyway. But July this year was apparently too bad. Flooding would of course be the other version of nature being unfavourable to your plans. As I am not allowed to link to the German agent of CroisiEurope, here is the info printed in the German catalogue. It says that they may need to make changes to an itinerary at short notice. They may put you on a different ship. They may need to put you up in a hotel. They may do parts of your itinerary by coach.

 

I cannot figure out how to take a screenshot in that catalogue format where you can read like in a paper brochure and cannot see the equivalent info in the English online catalogue.

 

I expect in rare cases they may need to cancel a cruise. Perhaps sending an e-mail to the American agent may yield a bit more info than I can give? Or hopefully someone who has sailed your itinerary will provide an answer.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

6 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

the German catalogue. It says that they may need to make changes to an itinerary at short notice. They may put you on a different ship. They may need to put you up in a hotel. They may do parts of your itinerary by coach.

 

This sounds very much like the boilerplate that would be in any river cruise line's T&C, covering their bases to provide for any eventuality.  It looks like their two ships are as well designed for this river as one could imagine – so my hope is that they are able to sail most years even when Viking has given up.  But I don't know the area so don't even know what hotels they would use as bases in the worst case [is this itinerary longer than Viking's?  would it require more than 1 hotel at each end?]

 

[BTW the cruise I am looking at is a Noble Caledonia charter on Elbe Princesse II – assuming they keep repeating it after 2024]

[notamermaid]

48 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

This sounds very much like the boilerplate that would be in any river cruise line's T&C, covering their bases to provide for any eventuality.

Yes, like T&C's but the difference is that they put this in the catalogue as a "what you need to know" right in the info service pages at the front and not in the small print at the end of the catalogue. This itinerary is much longer than Viking's on a ship. I wonder if the situation is a different one when a third part is involved, i.e. would the charter make a difference to hotels or the cancellation versus coach trip option? May depend on whether it is full charter or part charter perhaps? Would Noble Caledonia be able to provide some insight?

 

notamermaid

 

 

[AnhaltER1960]

On 8/27/2023 at 6:41 PM, Gboss905 said:

Anybody think Viking will be able to begin cruising the Elbe mid-September?

Too early to say. Todays water levels would allow sailing, but this can change in the next two weeks. The recent massive rainfalls in Bavaria/Alps, which caused a floodwave on the Danube, did not reach into the Bohemian Basin. Or just a bit.

 

From what I see in marinetraffic, Viking have put the Beyla and the Astrild into position in Dresden and Wittenberg respectively.

[AnhaltER1960]

20 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

It looks like their two ships are as well designed for this river as one could imagine – so my hope is that they are able to sail most years even when Viking has given up.

Indeed the Croisi ships are designed for the Elbe, but so are the Viking ships, which sail this river. In recent years there had not been much of a difference in the performance of Croisi and Viking - when Viking could not sail, Croisi also could not. When Croisi resumed, Viking did, too.

 

Unlike Viking, who sail from Wittenberg to Decin and do Berlin-Wittenberg and Decin-Prague by bus, Croisi sail all the way. Normally. At times of low water they sail from Berlin to somewhere close to Magdeburg (on a canal and thus not affected by water levels). From there bus rides as far as Wittenberg, while using the ship as a boatel, then the big leap by bus to Usti (ehere the other ship is berthed) and again bus tours. From Usti upriver the Elbe is locked as well as the Moldova into Prague and therefore not affected by low water, so again sailing there.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Thanks @AnhaltER1960 that's exactly the local detail I was looking for.