Unpopular Opinion: I'm excited about the changes to Plus and Premier

[cruising.mark.uk]

22 minutes ago, roadster08 said:

There are like about 10 tables in Alfredo's. I want to see what princess does when half the cruisers with plus or premiere scrum to use their casual dining benefits. The closer to the end of the cruise, the crazier it will get. I see a lot of tipped chairs at empty tables in Alfredo's future. 

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you wrote, but surely it will be less busy under the new arrangements?  It used to be free for everybody to use unlimited times.  From now on only those with Premiere will be able to do that.  Logic suggests that will result in less visits.

[drwbrt]

Just wanted to share the cost comparison as it has been raised a few times.  There is a very strong argument that Plus vs. Premier doesn't provide much value, but Plus OR Premier on Princess vs. the other comparable sailings on Carnival or NCL is better value.  I know not everyone wants drinks and Wi-Fi, we do and that is the perspective we are comparing from.

 

All sailings are the same week, 7-days to Mexico from Southern California.

[JGmf]

@drwbrt Kudos to you.  As a spreadsheet lover, I very much appreciate your work.  Nice job laying out your/our options.

 

Not numeric, but empirical nonetheless, the Princess drink package has way more beverage options than does NCL.  Broader selection of included spirits too. The dining options are better than NCL too. 

Entertainment?  No, NCL squeaks by Princess on that.

[dlh015]

20 minutes ago, drwbrt said:

Just wanted to share the cost comparison as it has been raised a few times.  There is a very strong argument that Plus vs. Premier doesn't provide much value, but Plus OR Premier on Princess vs. the other comparable sailings on Carnival or NCL is better value.  I know not everyone wants drinks and Wi-Fi, we do and that is the perspective we are comparing from.

 

All sailings are the same week, 7-days to Mexico from Southern California.

Nice!

 

Now, could you please do this for all the cruises I'm planning???        

 

(Just kidding...but it's a nice template...)

[drwbrt]

5 minutes ago, dlh015 said:

Nice!

 

Now, could you please do this for all the cruises I'm planning???        

 

(Just kidding...but it's a nice template...)

Send me your details.  Haha.  Seriously I love looking at this stuff and figuring it out. 

[mtnesterz]

18 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Logic suggests that will result in less visits.

Except that humans are often not logical. With the addition of dining to the packages, specialty dining has become more crowded. People don't want to miss out on something they've paid for, actually paid twice for, since food is included in the standard fare. Meaning Princess has an average amount of food in dollars that a passenger will eat and calculate that into your fare. 

Passengers may never have gone to those casual dining places when included, but now that they pay, they will insist upon it. These venues will become more crowded.

[Cruise Raider]

So, this is my take on this after reading all the comments on this post as well as many others on this subject.  
I think there is a small minority of people that are angry and state they will refuse to book with Princess ever again.  They are the squeaky wheels and will probably be lined up at guest services to get some compensation.  It may very well be provided.  
I think the majority of new cruisers with disposable income will accept these changes without giving it another thought.  It’s the very seasoned cruisers that pinch their pennies, whether they really have to or not, will be the most disgruntled.  The cruiselines will not become profitable when only these passengers are booking cruises.  And because Princess is now filling their ships to full capacity, it stands to reason that they’d rather have the former type of cruiser onboard.  
I am not loyal to any one cruiseline but do have most of my cruises with Princess and cruise an average of once a month since the restart. We always purchase at least the Plus Package when we book because we find great value in it.  We oftentimes upgrade to the premier package once onboard. The staff gets credit for those upgrades so, we like to give them that opportunity.  We find value in the premier package even more so now with the added casual dining opportunities included, many times which we’ve paid for in the past. 
We do have a couple cruises booked with the $50 Plus Package one of which is on the Ruby and one on the Discovery.  It won’t pay for us to upgrade to the new $60 Plus on the Ruby, as it doesn’t have a large selection of casual dining spots onboard.  We will definitely upgrade to the Premier package on all our cruises on Royal class ships. 
As a stockholder, I appreciate these changes, most of which will be covered with my stockholder OBC.  Many are complaining they were told of these changes after final payment and perhaps Princess could have gone with a better approach to rolling them out than just ripping the bandaid off.  I, too, have will be on the Ruby on that first cruise with the changes.  I really don’t see it costing us a lot more money, though.  I will pay the access fee to the OceanNow feature on the app.  Depending upon if just one or the second occupant in the cabin are charged, it will be a one time fee of $15 or $30.  Since we’ve previously ordered the pizzas on the app on the Ruby, that won’t be a change, either.  The GastroPub will save us money as we always go once or twice each cruise and can now just order one plate for $10 each instead of paying the $18 cover charge per person, which was always too much food for us.  


 

[Cruise Raider]

7 minutes ago, mtnesterz said:

Except that humans are often not logical. With the addition of dining to the packages, specialty dining has become more crowded. People don't want to miss out on something they've paid for, actually paid twice for, since food is included in the standard fare. Meaning Princess has an average amount of food in dollars that a passenger will eat and calculate that into your fare. 

Passengers may never have gone to those casual dining places when included, but now that they pay, they will insist upon it. These venues will become more crowded.

 We’ve actually seen just the opposite effect. 

So many times, we haven’t been able to get into the specialty restaurants but we’ve had zero issues the last few times we’ve had the premier package and on completely full sailings.  
just my experience 

[cruising.mark.uk]

17 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

 We’ve actually seen just the opposite effect. 

So many times, we haven’t been able to get into the specialty restaurants but we’ve had zero issues the last few times we’ve had the premier package and on completely full sailings.  
just my experience 

I agree.  I think they misunderstood my post, because the answer makes zero sense to me.  If what they claim is true and 75% of people have a package, then the MDRs and the buffet will be almost deserted on future cruises because everyone will be eating twice paid for food.  I think another poster earlier on this (or one of the multiple similar) threads got this right when they suggested that Princess may have introduced the charge for Alfredos because it being no-cost was an anomaly and led to it being too busy so a charge has been added to dampen down demand.   That makes much more sense to me and I'll be surprised if the charge doesn't reduce numbers.

 

ETA: and, thinking about this further, I sense that this comment is not correct either 'People don't want to miss out on something they've paid for'.  My understanding from these boards is that the main reason why Princess (and other lines) push the packages so hard is because very few people use the alcoholic drinks element (and other benefits) to the maximum, thus increasing the profit margin for the cruise line.  That implies that people don't mind missing out on something they've paid for and I suspect the same will be true for those on the packages who may choose not to eat all the premium desserts, attend all the gym classes and eat at all the paid-for casual / speciality restaurants they have paid for as part of the package. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by cruising.mark.uk

[drwbrt]

14 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

That implies that people don't mind missing out on something they've paid for and I suspect the same will be true for those on the packages who may choose not to eat all the premium desserts, attend all the gym classes and eat at all the paid-for casual / speciality restaurants they have paid for as part of the package. 

This is a win-win for Princess and I.  Princess wins because I won't exploit the full offerings of Premier. I win because it is the least costly way for me to exploit certain aspects.  I'm not getting the desserts (unless I can really just get a scoop of gelato instead; still lower cost and faster to serve than the full dessert).  I will however, drink more than my fair share.  On a cruise, I drink Pellegrino all day, have 2-3 coffees per day, and enjoy bourbon, cocktails, wine and beer the rest of the day.

 

My first inclination to upgrade is so that I am not told "no" on vacation.  Let me be clear, the "no" is normally being said in my head, to myself.  I love getting on a ship or checking into a resort and the answer is always "yes, if you care to".  I spend my everyday rationalizing what I can or cannot afford as a responsible adult with the family I have to provide for.  I rationally make decisions before my vacation so I can afford to not consider those things once vacation has started. 

[memoak]

2 hours ago, roadster08 said:

There are like about 10 tables in Alfredo's. I want to see what princess does when half the cruisers with plus or premiere scrum to use their casual dining benefits. The closer to the end of the cruise, the crazier it will get. I see a lot of tipped chairs at empty tables in Alfredo's future. 

What ship are you referring to ?  On the Discovery it was more like 20 and there was still a 1 hour wait on sea days

[memoak]

1 hour ago, Cruise Raider said:

 We’ve actually seen just the opposite effect. 

So many times, we haven’t been able to get into the specialty restaurants but we’ve had zero issues the last few times we’ve had the premier package and on completely full sailings.  
just my experience 

We have never had a problem getting into Sabatini’s even without reservations 

[roadster08]

2 hours ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you wrote, but surely it will be less busy under the new arrangements?  It used to be free for everybody to use unlimited times.  From now on only those with Premiere will be able to do that.  Logic suggests that will result in less visits.

Well, I think more like an American. If I'm paying for a benefit then I'm going to find a way to use it. 😁

[roadster08]

38 minutes ago, memoak said:

What ship are you referring to ?  On the Discovery it was more like 20 and there was still a 1 hour wait on sea days

I was on the sapphire.

[Cruise Raider]

35 minutes ago, memoak said:

We have never had a problem getting into Sabatini’s even without reservations 

I don’t seem to have issues anymore but there were several cruises we couldn’t get into any of the specialty restaurants unless we had made a reservation in advance.  Same went for the winemaker’s dinner.  Ever since the price increases, it’s become much easier.  

 

[cruising.mark.uk]

2 minutes ago, roadster08 said:

Well, I think more like an American. If I'm paying for a benefit then I'm going to find a way to use it. 😁

And I'm sure most Brits would agree with you.  But, I can't help but think Princess wouldn't push these packages so hard if everyone who bought one extracted the maximum value from it.  Only PCL will know the stats, but I suspect many buy them primarily for convenience and end up under utilising them.  My wife and I may fall in that category.  But, we get what we want and we more than break even.  So long as the individual passenger is happy with what they get then, as drwbrt said above, the packages should be a win-win, both for the majority of the passengers who buy them and for Princess and its bottom line.

[Cruise Raider]

1 hour ago, drwbrt said:

This is a win-win for Princess and I.  Princess wins because I won't exploit the full offerings of Premier. I win because it is the least costly way for me to exploit certain aspects.  I'm not getting the desserts (unless I can really just get a scoop of gelato instead; still lower cost and faster to serve than the full dessert).  I will however, drink more than my fair share.  On a cruise, I drink Pellegrino all day, have 2-3 coffees per day, and enjoy bourbon, cocktails, wine and beer the rest of the day.

 

My first inclination to upgrade is so that I am not told "no" on vacation.  Let me be clear, the "no" is normally being said in my head, to myself.  I love getting on a ship or checking into a resort and the answer is always "yes, if you care to".  I spend my everyday rationalizing what I can or cannot afford as a responsible adult with the family I have to provide for.  I rationally make decisions before my vacation so I can afford to not consider those things once vacation has started. 

Like you, we upgrade to the premier package and don’t always use all the perks offered.  I do love nicer wines, though and fully take advantage of that, though.  But … 
We never get up to 15 drinks per day, I only ask for half of the normal amount of food that is served, especially in the specialty restaurants, I never eat dessert because I just don’t have a sweet tooth (I have a suspicion my DH makes up for that, though),  don’t go to the fitness classes as we prefer to use the stairs.  My DH doesn’t really like his picture taken but I make up for that.  We love the chances at the Princess Prizes, although we’ve not one more than $75.  My cousin did win the $5000 prize a few months ago, though.  If it’s a show we really want to see, I will take advantage of the reserved seating!  
That packages may not hold value for those that don’t drink alcohol but they certainly are now more attractive than they used to be because now they combine casual dining. 

[scooter6139]

4 hours ago, drwbrt said:

Just wanted to share the cost comparison as it has been raised a few times.  There is a very strong argument that Plus vs. Premier doesn't provide much value, but Plus OR Premier on Princess vs. the other comparable sailings on Carnival or NCL is better value.  I know not everyone wants drinks and Wi-Fi, we do and that is the perspective we are comparing from.

 

All sailings are the same week, 7-days to Mexico from Southern California.

I love seeing spreadsheets, but not sure you are quite correct on this one.  The NCL model is not quite correct, as all sailing automatically consider basic Free at Sea as part of the sailing.  Taking it off only nets a few hundred dollars off at most for a 7 day sailing, especially a cheaper Mexico cruise.  So it is a bit misleading to quote a base far then trying to add the cost of Drinks and Wifi, especially on the Free at Sea + (FAS+) booking.  My wife and I only sail Alaska and Mexico, and Princess is rarely the cheaper option.  We just decide whom to cruise based on what we want at the time. 

[drwbrt]

6 minutes ago, scooter6139 said:

I love seeing spreadsheets, but not sure you are quite correct on this one.  The NCL model is not quite correct, as all sailing automatically consider basic Free at Sea as part of the sailing.  Taking it off only nets a few hundred dollars off at most for a 7 day sailing, especially a cheaper Mexico cruise.  So it is a bit misleading to quote a base far then trying to add the cost of Drinks and Wifi, especially on the Free at Sea + (FAS+) booking.  My wife and I only sail Alaska and Mexico, and Princess is rarely the cheaper option.  We just decide whom to cruise based on what we want at the time. 

The drink charge on there is the gratuity charged for drinks. You must pay this to accept the FAS drink offer. The Wi-Fi fee is included because FAS only includes 75 minutes of WiFi while FAS+ includes unlimited WiFi. I added the upgrade cost of FAS+ to the drinks line item. This is perhaps misleading but it’s where I added it. 
 

I understand why you would think that because I didn’t communicate the FAS line items very well. 

[New2cruise2022]

12 hours ago, Jim_Roberts said:

Princess Cruises are free to include and exclude what they wish provided this is made clear at the time of booking.  Cutting back on services for people already booked without compensation, is bait and switch at its worst.   I'm sailing with them in two weeks' time, but never again.  I don't trade with crooks.

Not crooks. Read the T&C you agreed to at the time of booking. 

[getaway101]

6 hours ago, drwbrt said:

This is a win-win for Princess and I.  Princess wins because I won't exploit the full offerings of Premier. I win because it is the least costly way for me to exploit certain aspects.  I'm not getting the desserts (unless I can really just get a scoop of gelato instead; still lower cost and faster to serve than the full dessert).  I will however, drink more than my fair share.  On a cruise, I drink Pellegrino all day, have 2-3 coffees per day, and enjoy bourbon, cocktails, wine and beer the rest of the day.

 

My first inclination to upgrade is so that I am not told "no" on vacation.  Let me be clear, the "no" is normally being said in my head, to myself.  I love getting on a ship or checking into a resort and the answer is always "yes, if you care to".  I spend my everyday rationalizing what I can or cannot afford as a responsible adult with the family I have to provide for.  I rationally make decisions before my vacation so I can afford to not consider those things once vacation has started. 

I agree

[getaway101]

5 hours ago, Cruise Raider said:

Like you, we upgrade to the premier package and don’t always use all the perks offered.  I do love nicer wines, though and fully take advantage of that, though.  But … 
We never get up to 15 drinks per day, I only ask for half of the normal amount of food that is served, especially in the specialty restaurants, I never eat dessert because I just don’t have a sweet tooth (I have a suspicion my DH makes up for that, though),  don’t go to the fitness classes as we prefer to use the stairs.  My DH doesn’t really like his picture taken but I make up for that.  We love the chances at the Princess Prizes, although we’ve not one more than $75.  My cousin did win the $5000 prize a few months ago, though.  If it’s a show we really want to see, I will take advantage of the reserved seating!  
That packages may not hold value for those that don’t drink alcohol but they certainly are now more attractive than they used to be because now they combine casual dining. 

If you do the math it doesn’t take anywhere near 15 drinks a day to get your moneys worth.

[memoak]

23 minutes ago, getaway101 said:

If you do the math it doesn’t take anywhere near 15 drinks a day to get your moneys worth.

No lie we average 8-10 drinks per day and get great value

[rlchu]

Can anyone direct me to a page where I can update myself on the changes? 

Apologies for sounding like I just crawled out from under a rock, but I'm a Platinum level princess cruiser who has not cruised since 2018. It looks like much has changed. 

I've been all over Princess' website and don't feel I totally understand what's happened in terms of service and food options. 

Thanks in advance. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by rlchu
Typo

[Jim_Roberts]

11 hours ago, New2cruise2022 said:

Not crooks. Read the T&C you agreed to at the time of booking. 

I did.  That's why I booked.  As it happens, I'm not a great fan on pizza and hot dogs and I'm unlikely to want to use room service.  However, I've paid for both and their withdrawal comes under "unreasonable contract terms" legislation.  Princess have committed a criminal offence in the UK and quite possibly a federal offence in the USA and will face prosecution.  As I said, I don't do business with crooks.