MSC Virtuosa has been cancelled. Any compensation that can ask from MSC ?

[insidecabin]

3 hours ago, Mark_T said:

I'd love to be proved wrong on this one, but I really can't find anything that supports this statement...

 

If it is not a package or a linked travel arrangement then there is no protection for components that you separately contract with another supplier that I can find...

 

The linked travel arrangements bit only covers the situation where you get up-sold with say a hotel after booking a flight on the same website etc. 

 

Booking a cruise on the MSC website then deciding to go to an airline website and booking a flight there doesn't make MSC liable for your flight if they cancel the cruise...

 

They are liable for damages  which would include losses related to necessary transport

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2018/9780111168479/part/4

 

15.11

16.3.

[Mark_T]

38 minutes ago, insidecabin said:

 

They are liable for damages  which would include losses related to necessary transport

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2018/9780111168479/part/4

 

15.11

16.3.

As far as I am aware, 15 and 16 in Part 4 refer to the non-conformity of the services when they are delivered, but this is a cancellation before the travel has begun and is covered in Part 3 under section 13 so the damages clauses in 15/16 do not come into play as this isn't an issue of conformity as the contract has already been cancelled...

[cruising.mark.uk]

5 hours ago, insidecabin said:

 

They are liable for damages  which would include losses related to necessary transport

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2018/9780111168479/part/4

 

15.11

16.3.

Thanks for providing this link.  I read the whole Statutory Instrument and I believe @Mark_T's post 26 is correct, certainly in the UK.

 

I'm no lawyer, but it seems very clear to me from Provision 2 of the regulations at the link you provided that a traveller does not have a 'package' unless flights, accommodation etc associated with their cruise are arranged directly for them by the cruise company / travel arrangement.

Neither do they have 'linked travel arrangements' unless those are sold to them by the cruise provider at the same time as the cruise or by a trader signposted to them by the cruise company within 24hrs of buying the cruise.  See 2(1)(3)(4)(5) and (6).  If that is the case, the remainder of that Statutory Instrument does not apply to the circumstances being discussed here.  Other UK / EU regulations may possibly apply, but not 'The Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements'.

[mscdivina2016]

16 hours ago, perakcruiser said:

Which languages do you speak? You are definitely wrong, but certainly different markets have different rules. Not just that the cruise line must compensate you for the flights you booked, you even have the right to book a similar cruise and MSC cannot charge you more. Let´s say you have a Fantasia cruise from Barcelona for one week, MSC cancels the Fantasia, you can book the World Europa for the same date and not need to worry about the price. 

It doesn't matter what language he speaks, the only language is one that MSC speaks and that is "cargo". Passengers are cargo.

 I personally have had multiple run ins with no compensation including getting a lawyer to go after them.  Bottom line is they can do anything they want and if you don't like it. Well.......

 

I have had a 14 night cruise changed to a 17 night. Had to change my airfare not only to a different date but a different country. Costed me a change fee.

 Then a few weeks later they changed it to an 18 night. Change fee again. No compensation.

  How about I had a YC Grand suite for a week paid in full and they bumped me out and put me in a regular balcony cabin with no YC access and no reduction in fare?  

 They called it an operational change. They gave the ship to a full charter group.

  T&C say I get to choose another cruise with a 1 category upgrade. Never happened. 

There are more things that have been done to me. YC is too good of a product for me to not sail them. 

 

[Fogfog]

On 1/22/2024 at 2:26 AM, Doraemon31 said:

Hi

I have booked MSC Virtuosa sail from Barcelona, Spain on 16 Apr and end at Southampton 22 Apr around 3 months ago. Last week I just got email from MSC that this route has been cancelled "Due to necessary operational reasons affecting the deployment of some of our ships". they give me only 2 options.

 

1.move to another cruise and pay more/ get refund on fare difference

2.full refund

 

Unfortunately, I can't find any cruise route that match with my air ticket which already purchased (arrive at Barcelona and Depart from UK) then I will choose option 2 but not sure any compensation that I can ask from them i.e. hotel cost that I plan to stay in barcelona before sailing day or air ticket cost which I have already paid.

 

This is my first time for cruising and not sure how to negotiate with them 😞 I have already purchased air ticket and paid for Visa fee both of UK and Schengen.

 

 

 I agree with everyone who stated that without travel insurance you don't have recourse. If you paid by credit card, check to see if there is a provision for travel insurance you may have overlooked. It may help. 

Good luck

[insidecabin]

13 hours ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Thanks for providing this link.  I read the whole Statutory Instrument and I believe @Mark_T's post 26 is correct, certainly in the UK.

 

I'm no lawyer, but it seems very clear to me from Provision 2 of the regulations at the link you provided that a traveller does not have a 'package' unless flights, accommodation etc associated with their cruise are arranged directly for them by the cruise company / travel arrangement.

Neither do they have 'linked travel arrangements' unless those are sold to them by the cruise provider at the same time as the cruise or by a trader signposted to them by the cruise company within 24hrs of buying the cruise.  See 2(1)(3)(4)(5) and (6).  If that is the case, the remainder of that Statutory Instrument does not apply to the circumstances being discussed here.  Other UK / EU regulations may possibly apply, but not 'The Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements'.

A cruise is a package under the regulation as a cruise provides transport and accommodation.

 

Cruise lines used to try to avoid admitting it.

 

Most cruise lines have now added it to their T&C's that the cruise booking is covered by package regs.

 

Looks like MSC falls short on explicit mention but does include the relevant terms from the regulations in their T&C

[insidecabin]

18 hours ago, Mark_T said:

As far as I am aware, 15 and 16 in Part 4 refer to the non-conformity of the services when they are delivered, but this is a cancellation before the travel has begun and is covered in Part 3 under section 13 so the damages clauses in 15/16 do not come into play as this isn't an issue of conformity as the contract has already been cancelled...

If you don't consider a cancellation a failure to conform to the package then part 3 is a list of reasons when damages don't apply when cancelled.

[Mark_T]

34 minutes ago, insidecabin said:

If you don't consider a cancellation a failure to conform to the package then part 3 is a list of reasons when damages don't apply when cancelled.

MSC seem to meet the conditions for there to be no compensation beyond a full refund:

 

"the organiser is prevented from performing the contract because of unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances and notifies the traveller of the termination of the contract without undue delay before the start of the package."

 

The current dangers to shipping in the Red Sea would seem to meet the standard of "unavoidable and extraordinary"

 

"(3) The organiser—

(a)may terminate the package travel contract and provide the traveller with a full refund of any payments made for the package;

(b)is not liable for additional compensation."

 

So a full refund is due and no additional compensation.

 

You can't then continue on to try and argue for damages based on non-conformity of the delivery under the contract as the contract has already terminated and the package never starts...

 

This is why it is important to use a TA to assemble a package if you want non-cruise line flights to be covered as part of the package, otherwise you have to fall back on insurance, or book refundable flights...

Edited January 25 by Mark_T

[insidecabin]

1 hour ago, Mark_T said:

MSC seem to meet the conditions for there to be no compensation beyond a full refund:

 

"the organiser is prevented from performing the contract because of unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances and notifies the traveller of the termination of the contract without undue delay before the start of the package."

 

The current dangers to shipping in the Red Sea would seem to meet the standard of "unavoidable and extraordinary"

 

"(3) The organiser—

(a)may terminate the package travel contract and provide the traveller with a full refund of any payments made for the package;

(b)is not liable for additional compensation."

 

So a full refund is due and no additional compensation.

 

You can't then continue on to try and argue for damages based on non-conformity of the delivery under the contract as the contract has already terminated and the package never starts...

 

This is why it is important to use a TA to assemble a package if you want non-cruise line flights to be covered as part of the package, otherwise you have to fall back on insurance, or book refundable flights...

That was agreed/considered earlier  it's one the exemptions from damages.

 

The discussion moved to cruise lines never liable.

 

When the cruise line cancels they are liable for damages except when there are specific conditions in the package regs that exclude further liability.

[Mark_T]

49 minutes ago, insidecabin said:

When the cruise line cancels they are liable for damages except when there are specific conditions in the package regs that exclude further liability.

The problem with that approach is that the ways in which they can avoid any liability beyond a full refund give sufficient latitude that there is a greater probability of them having no liability beyond the refund than there is of them actually having any liability, so it remains best advice to cover your risk by making sure the flights are within a package, or insuring your risk if they are outside a package.

 

So, yes, it is possible to conceive of a situation where the cruise line is sufficiently reckless to leave themselves open to damages, but it is more likely that they will not do that, so protect yourself and don't depend upon it ...

Edited January 25 by Mark_T

[insidecabin]

1 hour ago, Mark_T said:

The problem with that approach is that the ways in which they can avoid any liability beyond a full refund give sufficient latitude that there is a greater probability of them having no liability beyond the refund than there is of them actually having any liability, so it remains best advice to cover your risk by making sure the flights are within a package, or insuring your risk if they are outside a package.

 

So, yes, it is possible to conceive of a situation where the cruise line is sufficiently reckless to leave themselves open to damages, but it is more likely that they will not do that, so protect yourself and don't depend upon it ...

Plenty of cases where cruise lines become responsible.

 

Chartering the ship.

Redeployment.

Mechanical failures

Shipyard overruns

Major changes to itinerary 

...

 

 

 

[Mark_T]

7 minutes ago, insidecabin said:

Plenty of cases where cruise lines become responsible.

 

Chartering the ship.

Redeployment.

Mechanical failures

Shipyard overruns

Major changes to itinerary 

...

I'll continue to make sure I'm covered, you can roll the dice each time if you wish 🙂

[mscdivina2016]

20 hours ago, insidecabin said:

Plenty of cases where cruise lines become responsible.

 

Chartering the ship.

Redeployment.

Mechanical failures

Shipyard overruns

Major changes to itinerary 

...

 

 

 

Despite those you listed it's not that easy.

I took a legal run at them and they were outright bad.

 The T&C are there to make you feel all cozy. When it comes down to it, their on staff legal will tear you apart by causing you to run up massive legal hours and keep in mind, attorney fees are not recoverable by either party.

 Cover your own butt!

[peder]

Presumably the reason the Virtuosa canceled even this Barcelona-London cruise is because MSC is leaving the Middle East with a skeleton crew and won't rehire most of their staff until they reach London.

 

In the case of the Toscana, that April 15th sailing out of Barcelona will already be well into its new rotation. I think there's less likelihood that it is canceled.