Technical Fire Discussion

[Tater1800]

.... Hearing the p.a. announcement is eerie.

 

The announcement about the muster came after several calls to the crew. You could tell by the tone of his voice that things were serious. His accent was difficult to understand but the word "fire" was very clear.

[mii]

Apparently they fought the fire from the upwind cabin balconies.

 

Note the time stamps on this video:

 

http://loganfam.net/jeff/fire_vid.wmv

 

Comments from the experts?

 

I also would like to hear comments from the experts too>

 

Marilyn

[metrowon]

This head i suse in Europe. The US industry does not use this type of head. I think cost is a major factor.

This ship isn't a flagged US ship.

[spongerob]

It looked to me like one of the Dolphin deck balconies was burning quite furiously. The photos posted earlier show one minisuite that appears to have heavy damage, and could be the point of origin. If that is true, then some of the undamaged balconies we see in the video might have been damaged later on. Some have reported the fire started on Baja deck, but this video appears to show the most serious flames on Dolphin and Caribe. It would be nice to know which cabin this person was in. Just my observations.

[Bumpa]

Spongerob wrote:

did a rough calculation of how much this is costing Princess. 6 Caribbean cruises have been cancelled or refunded, including the 3/19 cruise, plus the 15-day transatlantic. If you assume that the average fare for a 7-day cruise is $750, and that everyone on board will spend about half that in on-board expenses, the 57 days out of service will end up with a total loss of revenue of almost $24,000,000. (That's 2.4e7 for you Numb3rs jocks). That doesn't include the extra transportation costs, compensation for damaged items, and FCC's that will be issued to everyone involved, or the cost of repairs. The magnitude of the financial loss is staggering.

 

I must be paying way too much for my cruises. How do I go about getting a 7 day cruise for $750.00? Please email me,

bumpa2328@yahoo.com

[TinAngel]

I wonder what the situation with the vent system was on the Star? Could they keep the air moving without out circulating the smoke and fumes? Or would it be shut down. Seems if they delayed shutting the system down that the fire would be "invited" to spread faster. The nautical folks here can tell me if this liner has a "sealed" engine room: one that is on a seperate system.

 

As to this next gem: wonder if it was before or after the Star's fire.

 

http://www.cruisejunkie.com/events.html

March 23

Sensation

Carnival Cruise Line

Coast Guard inspectors detained the ship at Port Canaveral until the captain and crew could fix violations related to the ship's fire-control systems. The ship was supposed to set sail at 4 p.m. on a four-day voyage to the Bahamas, but will be delayed until late in the evening. Inspectors found deficiencies in fire-safety systems, specifically some fire screen doors, fire station valves - which are like a fire hydrant - and watertight doors. Repairs were made and the ship finally left more than 6 hours late

 

I agree with other thread poster FDNY Twinflow: the situation is beyond serious. The losses could have been staggering. I also note that I read this ship was "modified" in the shipyard from her sister class ships. As to liability Twinflow has it. Carnival cannot avoid this issue -the rapid spread- no insurance carrier will cover them until that is resolved.

 

Doc

[bhopal21]

It looked to me like one of the Dolphin deck balconies was burning quite furiously. The photos posted earlier show one minisuite that appears to have heavy damage, and could be the point of origin.

 

I had the same thoughts Spongerob. I can't wait to find out the results of the investigation.

 

Mike:confused:

[zackiedawg]

Great video. It raises a few questions, and answers a few as well. Here’s what I have been able to observe in the video after watching it a dozen times at full screen, and frame by frame analysis:

 

It appears the video was shot from a Lido cabin around 242-250. The one question that is raised: What is the segment on the video around 7pm (the video indicates 6pm, but it was not set to ship time, which was 1 hour ahead) that seems to show a light wisp of smoke from a Dolphin cabin around dusk? What is mysterious is that it really isn’t mentioned as a significant issue in the video and interview. It does appear somewhat in line with the Dolphin cabin that shows damage in the post-fire photos…but it seems a bigger deal would have been made about this if there were initial smoldering traces of the fire fully 8 hours before the fire began. Somehow, for now, I am going to leave this part of the video out of further analysis because it is hard to piece into the larger puzzle due to the amount of time that elapsed and the location far aft of where the fire is shown to be burning later (at Dusk, the smoke appears to be coming from somewhere around Dolphin 420, while the fire burning later in the video appears to be coming from Aloha-Caribe 310).

 

So now to the fire part of the video. At 2:17am video clock time, which was somewhere around 3:10-3:20am ship time, the fire appears to be well along. Note that the video is presented out of order – the shipboard announcement and shot of the television is timestamped at 2:21, but shown first in the video sequence, while the fire shown after starts at a timestamp of 2:17. The fire appears to be raging across Aloha, Baja, and Caribe somewhere around 308-314. It is likely spread aft quite a few cabins, but this cannot be made out on the video.

 

My initial thought upon seeing the video was much the same as probably everyone – that the fire was burning hot and heavy on Dolphin. However, after further analysis…the fire appears to be burning intensely hot on Caribe, and is pulsing out from the balcony OVER Dolphin deck. A close look at the hot ball of fire which appears to be coming up from Dolphin actually seems to indicate that it is emanating out from Caribe. The balcony dividers on Dolphin are visible under the fire, and appear to be intact, not on fire, nor showing any signs of burn, char, or melt. I think our eyes can be deceived by the intensity of the fire, which the video camera has trouble picking up (intense light from fire will blow out the detail on video, and play havoc with the automatic contrast). It’s just my theory after looking at the video, but in frame-by-frame, I would say the Dolphin deck is not afire in this video. This appears to be supported by the fact that the photographs after the fire do not show any burning along Dolphin deck at the 308-314 cabin range, where this video seems to be showing (counting the number of cabins aft of the lido overhang, which is visible in parts of the video, you can arrive at a basic estimate of where the fire is burning). In the video, the fire appears to be burning 2-3 cabins aft of the beginning of the Lido overhang.

 

The firefighting effort from the cabin forward of that spot is curious. First of all, if this is crew they do not appear to be wearing any form of protective gear or clothing for firefighting. It looks like a person wearing normal clothes, with head and hands exposed and unprotected. Also, this person appears to be either panicked or untrained, as they are waving the hose around all across the fire area, as opposed to concentrating the stream to the base of the fire or wetting areas in the path of the fire. By waving the hose around, he is too rapidly dissipating the concentration of water, making it less effective as it evaporates in the heat of the fire before penetrating. Though, to be fair the intensity of that fire is not going to be affected even by a concentrated effort from that hose, based on the size and the flow of water it is producing. A few times, it appears the person is attempting to ‘throw’ the water onto the balcony of a cabin several cabins aft of him, where the fire appears to be coming out in balls of flame every so often. The person looks to be on Baja deck around 304, and he appears to be targeting fire around 310. This might lend some credence to the idea that it started around that point…and though they began fighting the fire there, the balcony collapse caused the fire to drop down onto the next two decks. That person may have still been in that position from earlier efforts to fight the fire when it was still confined to a single deck.

 

Nothing 100% can be gleaned from the video. Which cabins exactly the fire is coming from can’t really be determined from the low-res version of the video available (the original video would be at better resolution and is probably part of the investigation). What the 7pm video is showing is unknown, and whether it is in any way related to the rest of the fire. Where the fire started is unknown, as the video picks up well after the fire has spread to multiple decks.

 

But it is great to have additional resources to add to our data pool. I’m sure the investigation team has all of this and hundreds more videos, photos, eyewitness reports, etc…all original, all in full resolution, and all directed by questioning as needed. It is heartening to know that there is a good amount of information available to help determine the root of the fire. For now, though, we must satisfy our curiosity by postulating, debating, and discussing what little tidbits come along!

[Host CJSKIDS]

Great video. It raises a few questions, and answers a few as well. Here’s what I have been able to observe in the video after watching it a dozen times at full screen, and frame by frame analysis:

 

It appears the video was shot from a Lido cabin around 242-250. The one question that is raised: What is the segment on the video around 7pm (the video indicates 6pm, but it was not set to ship time, which was 1 hour ahead) that seems to show a light wisp of smoke from a Dolphin cabin around dusk? What is mysterious is that it really isn’t mentioned as a significant issue in the video and interview. It does appear somewhat in line with the Dolphin cabin that shows damage in the post-fire photos…but it seems a bigger deal would have been made about this if there were initial smoldering traces of the fire fully 8 hours before the fire began. Somehow, for now, I am going to leave this part of the video out of further analysis because it is hard to piece into the larger puzzle due to the amount of time that elapsed and the location far aft of where the fire is shown to be burning later (at Dusk, the smoke appears to be coming from somewhere around Dolphin 420, while the fire burning later in the video appears to be coming from Aloha-Caribe 310).

 

So now to the fire part of the video. At 2:17am video clock time, which was somewhere around 3:10-3:20am ship time, the fire appears to be well along. Note that the video is presented out of order – the shipboard announcement and shot of the television is timestamped at 2:21, but shown first in the video sequence, while the fire shown after starts at a timestamp of 2:17. The fire appears to be raging across Aloha, Baja, and Caribe somewhere around 308-314. It is likely spread aft quite a few cabins, but this cannot be made out on the video.

 

My initial thought upon seeing the video was much the same as probably everyone – that the fire was burning hot and heavy on Dolphin. However, after further analysis…the fire appears to be burning intensely hot on Caribe, and is pulsing out from the balcony OVER Dolphin deck. A close look at the hot ball of fire which appears to be coming up from Dolphin actually seems to indicate that it is emanating out from Caribe. The balcony dividers on Dolphin are visible under the fire, and appear to be intact, not on fire, nor showing any signs of burn, char, or melt. I think our eyes can be deceived by the intensity of the fire, which the video camera has trouble picking up (intense light from fire will blow out the detail on video, and play havoc with the automatic contrast). It’s just my theory after looking at the video, but in frame-by-frame, I would say the Dolphin deck is not afire in this video. This appears to be supported by the fact that the photographs after the fire do not show any burning along Dolphin deck at the 308-314 cabin range, where this video seems to be showing (counting the number of cabins aft of the lido overhang, which is visible in parts of the video, you can arrive at a basic estimate of where the fire is burning). In the video, the fire appears to be burning 2-3 cabins aft of the beginning of the Lido overhang.

 

The firefighting effort from the cabin forward of that spot is curious. First of all, if this is crew they do not appear to be wearing any form of protective gear or clothing for firefighting. It looks like a person wearing normal clothes, with head and hands exposed and unprotected. Also, this person appears to be either panicked or untrained, as they are waving the hose around all across the fire area, as opposed to concentrating the stream to the base of the fire or wetting areas in the path of the fire. By waving the hose around, he is too rapidly dissipating the concentration of water, making it less effective as it evaporates in the heat of the fire before penetrating. Though, to be fair the intensity of that fire is not going to be affected even by a concentrated effort from that hose, based on the size and the flow of water it is producing. A few times, it appears the person is attempting to ‘throw’ the water onto the balcony of a cabin several cabins aft of him, where the fire appears to be coming out in balls of flame every so often. The person looks to be on Baja deck around 304, and he appears to be targeting fire around 310. This might lend some credence to the idea that it started around that point…and though they began fighting the fire there, the balcony collapse caused the fire to drop down onto the next two decks. That person may have still been in that position from earlier efforts to fight the fire when it was still confined to a single deck.

 

Nothing 100% can be gleaned from the video. Which cabins exactly the fire is coming from can’t really be determined from the low-res version of the video available (the original video would be at better resolution and is probably part of the investigation). What the 7pm video is showing is unknown, and whether it is in any way related to the rest of the fire. Where the fire started is unknown, as the video picks up well after the fire has spread to multiple decks.

 

But it is great to have additional resources to add to our data pool. I’m sure the investigation team has all of this and hundreds more videos, photos, eyewitness reports, etc…all original, all in full resolution, and all directed by questioning as needed. It is heartening to know that there is a good amount of information available to help determine the root of the fire. For now, though, we must satisfy our curiosity by postulating, debating, and discussing what little tidbits come along!

 

I can only tell you that when this video was shot our cabin C414 already had the balcony full engulfed in the fire. Prior to the announcement from the bridge, the fire was on the balcony so that's how I know.

 

I don't know why the difference in time stamp on the person's camera. The only time there was a difference in ship's time and port time was in Cozumel. By Grand Cayman port time and ship time were exactly the same again and as were were approaching Jamaica, port time and ship time were exactly the same again. It was after 3:00 am.

 

I can only tell you again what was told to me in the muster station and after by many of the crew, they were told the fire may have started on deck 11 in cabin 304 or 306. This may have just been gossip or speculation, I have no idea and no theories, it's just information given to me by some crew members.

[DonLou]

Here are a couple of random thoughts.

 

Looking at the video, based on the movement of the smoke and how the water from the hose is coming out, it appears that the ship is at a complete stop.

 

For the experts: If a significant amount of aluminum was burning, wouldn't that be toxic? That would entail more than just smoke inhalation injuries.

[Host CJSKIDS]

Here are a couple of random thoughts.

 

Looking at the video, based on the movement of the smoke and how the water from the hose is coming out, it appears that the ship is at a complete stop.

 

For the experts: If a significant amount of aluminum was burning, wouldn't that be toxic? That would entail more than just smoke inhalation injuries.

 

The ship was still moving.

[zackiedawg]

No question, DonLou...that smoke would be toxic. Between the burning aluminum, plastics, composites, rubbers, etc that are fueling that fire...no question it would be toxic.

 

Fortunately, with the fire starting on the balconies, most people would have been able to move out of the fire area before being exposed to any of the smoke. By the reports we've heard, roughly 11 people were injured by smoke inhalation. The death may also have involved smoke inhalation, prompting a heart attack. That seems to indicate relatively few instances of smoke inhalation. Many others reported smelling the smoke or burning, but this wouldn't have been the toxic smoke...just the smell of the burning materials.

 

If this were an in-cabin fire, probably much more smoke would have been travelling inside the ship, filling hallways, cabins and rising through staircases.

 

It does look like the ship was still moving...the smoke is still primarily rising to the aft.

 

cjskids - I would believe that as hot as that fire is showing on the video, it probably extended to your cabin and probably beyond. You just can't see it on the video - but the ship's motion would have pushed a fire burning that hot and that large towards the aft at quite a clip.

 

I think the time difference on the video probably has more to do with where the people are from - they probably never changed their video timestamp from home. It appears to just be off 1 hour...so it's still easy enough to determine when all of this was happening...though he may have been running a few minutes fast or slow.

[Host CJSKIDS]

No question, DonLou...that smoke would be toxic. Between the burning aluminum, plastics, composites, rubbers, etc that are fueling that fire...no question it would be toxic.

 

Fortunately, with the fire starting on the balconies, most people would have been able to move out of the fire area before being exposed to any of the smoke. By the reports we've heard, roughly 11 people were injured by smoke inhalation. The death may also have involved smoke inhalation, prompting a heart attack. That seems to indicate relatively few instances of smoke inhalation. Many others reported smelling the smoke or burning, but this wouldn't have been the toxic smoke...just the smell of the burning materials.

 

If this were an in-cabin fire, probably much more smoke would have been travelling inside the ship, filling hallways, cabins and rising through staircases.

 

It does look like the ship was still moving...the smoke is still primarily rising to the aft.

 

cjskids - I would believe that as hot as that fire is showing on the video, it probably extended to your cabin and probably beyond. You just can't see it on the video - but the ship's motion would have pushed a fire burning that hot and that large towards the aft at quite a clip.

 

I think the time difference on the video probably has more to do with where the people are from - they probably never changed their video timestamp from home. It appears to just be off 1 hour...so it's still easy enough to determine when all of this was happening...though he may have been running a few minutes fast or slow.

 

11 people is the official number from that day. I for one, and I'm sure there are many others, have also suffered from smoke inhalation. I ignored everything and by the time I got home was into the infection caused by smoke inhalation with a 103 temp. They've run tests and xrays and the diagnosis was XXXX, I decided not delete it as I guess it shouldn't be on here.

 

I don't want to highjack this thread. I only posted since people were speculating about what cabins were in the video. It's been very interesting to read from the various firefighters on here. I for one have no idea how they managed to control the fire after seeing the videos. It as a miracle and those who did it are angels. They obviously worked hard, very, very hard in a horrible situation. The fact that they got it under control is amazing and something that I will be forever grateful for. Firefighters of any kind are a special breed, a selfless special breed for whom I have the upmost admiration.

[brn2crz]

Someone somewhere,perhaps here,posted a picture of fire-fighting equipment being "exercised" on the (I believe) Star.There seemed to be "automatic" sprinklers if you will going off from all angles of the ship...Surely,these helped work this fire as well ??

 

PS....CJ's ..So sorry that you now have to go through that...I have Bronchitis...and its enough to deal with,much less being initiated by the smoke,and all the other issues.God Speed.

[terrierjohn]

I have not read all posts on this topic but have not seen any speculation as to why Dolphin deck balconies were so little affected. This is very noticable on a set of photos on the attached website;-

http://www.princessshutter.com/coppermine/

From these pictures you have to wonder if the Dolphin balconies are maybe made of steel with those above being Aluminium. But whatever the reason other than for one balcony the fire stopped short of Dolphin (deck 9), and if the report that it started on deck 11 (Baja) is correct, why is Caribe so badly damaged and not Dolphin?

John.

[jenjens1023]

I can't get the video to open. I get a dialogue box that says Windows can't open the file without knowing some additional info (forgot what it says exactly). Help?

[TinAngel]

Re: "Hyundai Fortune" (5.500 TEU) now reportedly still afloat after explosions and fire

 

Major fire on container ship in Gulf of Aden, links to the firefighting tug company and Royal Navy photos of ongoing incident.

 

http://www.wijsmullersalvage.nl/latestnews.php

 

http://www.wijsmullersalvage.nl/newsroom/newsgallery/hyunday_fortuna.php

 

 

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1361&forum=2

[Goldryder]

Re: "Hyundai Fortune" (5.500 TEU) now reportedly still afloat after explosions and fire

 

Major fire on container ship in Gulf of Aden, links to the firefighting tug company and Royal Navy photos of ongoing incident.

 

http://www.wijsmullersalvage.nl/latestnews.php

 

http://www.wijsmullersalvage.nl/newsroom/newsgallery/hyunday_fortuna.php

 

 

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1361&forum=2

 

 

My late uncle was commodore for WijsMuller and then Smit-Tak, used to go with him on salvage jobs as a youngster alot.

 

Incidently Star Princess is still sat in Freeport harbour, so her repairs are quite possibly going to knock another hole in her cruise programme if they don't get her underway pretty soon.

[TinAngel]

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=68134&cid=13

 

Above is large photo view of Star Princess at a useful angle, etc.

 

Below are 9 pictures and Warning: the last six will break your heart, I was in tears. (Victoria Liffidge photos with script)

 

 

http://www.nbc6.net/slideshow/news/8238285/detail.html?qs=1;s=1;dm=ss;p=news;w=400

 

 

Webcam

http://www.cruiseliners.wanadoo.co.uk/Star%20Princess.htm

 

The photo guys at http://www.shipspotting.com should be getting drydock photos when the Star sails to Germany.

 

Doc

[Host CJSKIDS]

My late uncle was commodore for WijsMuller and then Smit-Tak, used to go with him on salvage jobs as a youngster alot.

 

Incidently Star Princess is still sat in Freeport harbour, so her repairs are quite possibly going to knock another hole in her cruise programme if they don't get her underway pretty soon.

 

I spoke with Kelly Post, with the Coast Guard, Marine Casualty investigations, office of investgations and analysis and the coast guard is still on the ship investigating. She told me this morning that it was still in Freeport.

The ship will not head over to Germany for repairs until the investigators are through with the ship. Between the Coast Guard, FBI, and UK teams they are still working very hard to determine the cause, the course of the fire and the reason it moved so siftly and whether or not someone was involved. It may be a few months before the full results are released.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Since 1900, the size and weight of ships have grown at a dramatic pace. Built in 1910 and weighing 46,328 tons, the White Star line’s RMS Titanic was the largest movable object of its time. The Titanic, perhaps the most famous ship to ever set sail, was impressive because of its sheer size. A more modern example of the enormity of ships is the Queen Elizabeth 2, built in 1969. The Queen Elizabeth 2 weighs 70,327 tons. Built in 1997 by Princess Cruises, The Grand Princess is one of the largest non-military ocean-going vessels in the world [evidently "old news"]. With 14 decks and a capacity of 2600 passengers, The Grand Princess weighs 109,000 tons, more than twice the weight of the Titanic.

This isn't really a major point in the fire discussion, but I should note that the figures being quoted here are gross tonnage (GT), which has absolutely nothing to do with weight.

 

Gross tonnage is a measure of volume. Each gross ton, strictly speaking, is 100 cubic feet of enclosed space.

 

Up until the late 1980s, many countries had their own systems of measuring gross tonnage - in particular, what counted as enclosed space and what didn't. The US, for example, had a lot of exemptions which resulted in American ships having much "smaller" tonnage figures than the identical ship would have if she were flagged in another country.

 

In 1989 (if my memory serves me) the Universal Measurement System was adopted, which at least in theory made all of the various countries' tonnage figures comparable to each other.

 

With the caveat that the older ships' figures are not in UMS tonnage, here are all the passenger ships which have broken the "world's largest" record since 1900:

 

CELTIC - 1901 - 20,904 GT

CEDRIC - 1903 - 21,035 GT

BALTIC - 1904 - 23,884 GT

KAISERIN AUGUSTE VICTORIA - 1906 - 24,581 GT

LUSITANIA - 1907 - 31,550 GT

MAURETANIA - 1907 - 31,938 GT

OLYMPIC - 1911 - 45,324 GT

TITANIC - 1912 - 46,329 GT

IMPERATOR - 1913 - 51,680 GT

VATERLAND - 1914 - 54,282 GT

MAJESTIC - 1922 - 56,551 GT

NORMANDIE - 1935 - 79,280 GT

QUEEN ELIZABETH - 1940 - 83,673 GT

CARNIVAL DESTINY - 1996 - 101,353 GT

GRAND PRINCESS - 1998 - 108,806 GT

VOYAGER OF THE SEAS - 1999 - 137,276 GT

EXPLORER OF THE SEAS - 2000 - 137,308 GT

NAVIGATOR OF THE SEAS - 2003 - 138,279 GT

QUEEN MARY 2 - 2003 - 148,528 GT

 

Later this year we will have FREEDOM OF THE SEAS at around 158,000 GT and by 2009 the ship codenamed "Genesis" will be out at 220,000 GT.

 

The largest ship of any type that has ever been built is the former ultra large crude carrier (ULCC) and now floating storing and offloading unit (FSO) KNOCK NEVIS at 260,941 GT, built in 1979 as the SEAWISE GIANT. You can read more about her here.

 

As it is unlikely that oil tankers of this size will be built again in the forseeable future and with "Genesis" passenger ships are closing in on ULCCs in size, it is possible that soon a passenger ship will once again be the largest ship in the world (as they usually were before the advent of supertankers).

 

As for the weight of ships, this is usually measured in displacement tons. This is the number of metric tons of water a ship displaces as she moves through the water. There are two types of displacement tonnage, light displacement tonnage and laden displacement tonnage. The former is the displacement of the ship when empty (no cargo, fuel, etc.) while the latter is the ship fully laden to her maximum capacity. The difference between the two is deadweight tonnage, which is basically the weight of the amount that the ship can carry.

 

Aluminum is indeed used in order to save weight, and in particular to lower the center of gravity of the ship. For example, while the QUEEN ELIZABETH (the original one, not today's QUEEN ELIZABETH 2) was considerably longer and about the same width as a ship like GRAND PRINCESS, GRAND PRINCESS was still over 20,000 GT (that's 2,000,000 cubic feet!) larger. This is mostly because modern ships are much taller and "boxier", so they contain a lot more volume. If someone can find a photo of a modern cruise ship next to the original QUEEN MARY in Long Beach, CA (about the same size as QUEEN ELIZABETH), the difference in shape will be very evident.

 

Because modern ships are so much taller, aluminum is usually used in the superstructure to lower the center of gravit and also to make the ships lighter so that they draw less water (that is, the hull is not as deep, so they can operate in shallower waters). As a result, most passenger ships since the late 1960s have had aluminum superstructures.

[Saga Ruby]

Scenario #1 - Bad Guy checks his current-to-date onboard charges. He is furious at Princess - they are obviously cheating him. He storms down to the front desk to question the charges, berates the staff, returns to his room, anger simmering. He goes out on his balcony, thinks of revenge, considers hitting Princess where it hurts. He throws an accelerant onto the balcony to start a "little" fire, closes his balcony door, goes back out to party.

 

Scenario #2 - Good Guy has had a great day with sun, fun, pool, fine dining and drinking. He returns to his cabin, puts on his robe, pours a drink from his private stock, goes out on the balcony to smoke. Fatigue speaks. He puts his cigarette in the balcony ashtray, puts the drink glass on the table, throws his wet robe over a chair, and goes back inside to sleep, not knowing his bathrobe belt has knocked over the drink into the ashtray and you know the rest.

 

How do arson investigators determine willful neglect v. a regrettable accident?

 

Ruby

[Twinflow]

As a retired professional firefighter and a frequent cruiser I am very interested in this Ship Fire. My firefighting experience was land based but we did have a working Port in the City. One morning a large freighter caught fire and burned for three days. This ship was docked and we had complete access with land based firefighting equipment. It was an extremely hard fire to fight. During the fire we almost lost six firefighters that ran out of air down inside the ships engine rooms. The ship was a total loss and became scrap metal.

 

The Star Princess Fire is exceptionally concerning to me as a cruise traveler. My main concern is not if the fire was accidental or malicious. But the rapid spread of the fire from balcony to balcony and deck to deck. I have viewed all the photos and video clips found over the internet. What continues to amaze me is how FAST the fire spread. We know the winds could have had a major effect on the spread. A typical balcony has two chairs, one table and a decking material. One of the photos shows each balcony burning on its own. The dividing panels and frame structure are burning. What type of finish is applied to the aluminum dividers and frames during construction? What type of paint is used on the balcony floors and outside walls of the ship?

 

A mockup of this ship needs to be reproduced in a fire laboratory. This mockup should duplicate the side of the ship with several decks. The same material used to build this ship must be used including the paint finishes. Deck chairs and tables should be used with the same deck coverings. The wind could be reproduced including the direction. There are serious design issues with this class of Princess Ship. Remember this FIRE already happened and it can occur again with a more serious loss of LIFE!

 

Besides finding the origin and cause the design defects must be corrected before this ship carries passengers again. I always lean on the side of SAFETY.

 

 

:(

[dwkwootton]

I've been reading this thread with tremendous interest and I finally get a chance to contribute! In Saga Ruby's scenario #2, the problem is that unless good guy was drinking straight 151, it is highly unlikely that a fire would have resulted. And its not a definite even with 151. Knowing about igniting alcohol, the theory of a cigarette and a drink doesn't seem at all likely.

[spongerob]

There are serious design issues with this class of Princess Ship.

What are the design faults that most concern you? Everything burns if the conditions are right - or if someone tries hard enough to get a fire started.