Jamaica safety

[xpcdoojk]

16 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

So then, according to the post i originally reference; a travel operator would need to familiarize themselves with the travel policies of every client in order to prevent being complicit in negating policies and becoming liable for any claims that would have originally been handled by that policy????

I love when posters start sounding like someone on Dateline.  Queue ominous music.  🤣

[not-enough-cruising]

1 minute ago, xpcdoojk said:

I love when posters start sounding like someone on Dateline.  Queue ominous music.  🤣

just trying to get clarification of a previous comment

[xpcdoojk]

1 minute ago, not-enough-cruising said:

just trying to get clarification of a previous comment

O I agree with you.  I was referring to using words like complicit for a discussion on this topic.  

[not-enough-cruising]

Just now, xpcdoojk said:

O I agree with you.  I was referring to using words like complicit for a discussion on this topic.  

gotcha, yes the terms "complicit liability" is what made me take notice in @Jetdriver787post, the premise is laughable

[Jetdriver787]

4 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Am I reading this right? 

Are you saying Royal would be liable for any claims you may have due to your travel insurance being negated by a stop in a port on the FCDO "do not travel" list?

Complicit is perhaps hyperbolic and liability would be for a court to determine, but if the protection provided by the travellers insurance is negated by the tour operators actions in full or in part, it may well provide another avenue for redress?

[d9704011]

2 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

gotcha, yes the terms "complicit liability" is what made me take notice in @Jetdriver787post, the premise is laughable

Yes, there you go.  It's kind of like some grand conspiracy on the part of the cruise lines to void insurance policies.  Too much imagination in some of the posts.

[not-enough-cruising]

58 minutes ago, Jetdriver787 said:

Complicit is perhaps hyperbolic and liability would be for a court to determine, but if the protection provided by the travellers insurance is negated by the tour operators actions in full or in part, it may well provide another avenue for redress?

Absolutely not. Travel insurance is not even a requirement, so how could an operator be liable for the invalidation of your policy? This is an issue strictly between the traveler and their insurer.

[Jetdriver787]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Absolutely not. Travel insurance is not even a requirement, so how could an operator be liable for the invalidation of your policy? This is an issue strictly between the traveler and their insurer.

Absolutely not?

 

“The main risk to flag up is that operating holidays against FCDO advice could invalidate your public liability insurance.  Would it only be invalid in relation to covid-19 related claims?  Or would it be completely withdrawn even if someone makes a claim for slip/trip accident?  The answer lies in the T&C’s of your insurance policy.

Another risk, and one that has been highly publicised for certain ABTA members, is that you could be in breach of the membership rules for any trade association that you are part of.

 

In Conclusion

In short, yes you can operate holidays against FCDO advice.  There are risks involved and so you need to be fully aware of those risks before taking a commercial view on whether it is worthwhile to proceed.   However, when it comes to refunds for customers that do not want to travel due to FCDO advice, the customers are currently in a strong position – even if you get them to sign a form to waive any rights to a refund!”

[not-enough-cruising]

3 hours ago, Jetdriver787 said:

Absolutely not?

 

“The main risk to flag up is that operating holidays against FCDO advice could invalidate your public liability insurance.  Would it only be invalid in relation to covid-19 related claims?  Or would it be completely withdrawn even if someone makes a claim for slip/trip accident?  The answer lies in the T&C’s of your insurance policy.

Another risk, and one that has been highly publicised for certain ABTA members, is that you could be in breach of the membership rules for any trade association that you are part of.

 

In Conclusion

In short, yes you can operate holidays against FCDO advice.  There are risks involved and so you need to be fully aware of those risks before taking a commercial view on whether it is worthwhile to proceed.   However, when it comes to refunds for customers that do not want to travel due to FCDO advice, the customers are currently in a strong position – even if you get them to sign a form to waive any rights to a refund!”

Royal Caribbean does not operate under the purview of the British FCDO nor the ABTA.

 

I fail to see how you come to these conclusions regarding refunds, nor liability on the part of the cruise line.

[Jetdriver787]

22 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Royal Caribbean does not operate under the purview of the British FCDO nor the ABTA.

 

I fail to see how you come to these conclusions regarding refunds, nor liability on the part of the cruise line.

From the UK booking T&C’s

 

Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd (‘RCCL’) and RCL Cruises Ltd are members of ABTA with membership numbers Y1650 and L8357/Y3001 respectively. ABTA and ABTA members help holidaymakers get the most from their travel and assist them when things do not go according to plan. We are obliged to maintain a high standard of service to you by ABTA’s Code of Conduct. For further information about ABTA, the Code of Conduct and the arbitration scheme available to you if you have a complaint, contact ABTA, 30 Park Street, London, SE1 9EQ.”

 

BOOKING CONDITIONS – UNITED KINGDOM

Important Notice:

You are viewing the Booking Conditions applicable to cruises with Royal Caribbean International (and any related goods and services booked through Royal Caribbean Group). These Booking Conditions are applicable only to guests whose Primary Country of Residence is the UK. If your Primary Country of Residence is not the UK, then please visit   to determine the Booking Terms and Conditions that apply to you. 

“Primary Country of Residence” means the country where you primarily reside at the time of booking the cruise. This should be indicated by you, your agent, or other representative at the time of booking the cruise or at online check-in.

These Booking Conditions are governed by the laws of England and Wales, and any claims or disputes must be resolved by alternative dispute resolution or under the laws and exclusive jurisdiction of the Courts of England and Wales.

If you have any questions about which Booking Conditions apply to your booking (or any related goods and services), please speak to your travel agent or your local RCL representative.

Edited March 24 by Jetdriver787

[not-enough-cruising]

3 minutes ago, Jetdriver787 said:

From the UK booking T&C’s

 

Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd (‘RCCL’) and RCL Cruises Ltd are members of ABTA with membership numbers Y1650 and L8357/Y3001 respectively. ABTA and ABTA members help holidaymakers get the most from their travel and assist them when things do not go according to plan. We are obliged to maintain a high standard of service to you by ABTA’s Code of Conduct. For further information about ABTA, the Code of Conduct and the arbitration scheme available to you if you have a complaint, contact ABTA, 30 Park Street, London, SE1 9EQ.”

 

 

✅ 

[Jetdriver787]

14 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

✅

You’re welcome! 

[RockHoundTX]

Is Jamaica safe? No. Hasn't been for the 14 years I have been cruising there on multiple cruise-lines. For those stating "it is just as safe as the US", I can't remember the last time I was man-handled, extorted, offered drugs, and a 4-year old child (all of which happened on my one visit to Doctor's Cave Beach in Montego Bay with my wife and 2 young kids) while on the beach in Galveston or Miami. 

 

Falmouth is very nice within the controlled port area but get's sketchy fast when you go out. My wife and I are very experienced travelers (have walked large cities in 30+ countries) so decided to "give it a try" and visit some areas outside the Falmouth port area (my wife was looking for a specific coffee that was not available in the port area). Most areas where dirty and continually had to fend off hawkers that wanted to "show us the city" or "provide a great time" but otherwise acceptable. What was not acceptable was being physically pulled into shops over in the straw market area. They then insinuated that you "needed to buy something". Very aggressive. We headed straight back to the ship after that and have not ventured on our own again in Jamaica (but have no problem walking beyond the gates in Roatan, Belize City, etc.). Your mileage may vary.

[Jetdriver787]

6 hours ago, d9704011 said:

Yes, there you go.  It's kind of like some grand conspiracy on the part of the cruise lines to void insurance policies.  Too much imagination in some of the posts.

Far from it! Whilst it is most certainly not a requirement, the cruise line would always encourage you strongly to avail yourself of travel insurance, since that would ordinarily provide the obvious and satisfactory route for redress in the event of most claims. 
 

The problem potentially comes when that means of redress is negated by the actions (or lack of them where they might reasonably be expected,) by the tour operator.

[d9704011]

53 minutes ago, Jetdriver787 said:

The problem potentially comes when that means of redress is negated by the actions (or lack of them where they might reasonably be expected,) by the tour operator.

Your garrulous communication style and propensity towards hyperbole and obfuscation renders it difficult to fully appreciate your thesis on tour operator' s (cruise lines') potential adverse impact on a customer's wholeness due to their actions or negligence.

 

Can you provide a couple of real world examples that may support your ideas?

[Jetdriver787]

1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

Your garrulous communication style and propensity towards hyperbole and obfuscation renders it difficult to fully appreciate your thesis on tour operator' s (cruise lines') potential adverse impact on a customer's wholeness due to their actions or negligence.

 

Can you provide a couple of real world examples that may support your ideas?

Well, I feel that my input on this discussion has been supported where challenged. But I can’t help feeling that further research would probably be futile if it were only to meet with curmudgeonly and vacuous retort?

 

Perhaps you could offer examples that support your own?

[jackadapt]

5 hours ago, RockHoundTX said:

Is Jamaica safe? No. Hasn't been for the 14 years I have been cruising there on multiple cruise-lines. For those stating "it is just as safe as the US", I can't remember the last time I was man-handled, extorted, offered drugs, and a 4-year old child (all of which happened on my one visit to Doctor's Cave Beach in Montego Bay with my wife and 2 young kids) while on the beach in Galveston or Miami. 

 

Falmouth is very nice within the controlled port area but get's sketchy fast when you go out. My wife and I are very experienced travelers (have walked large cities in 30+ countries) so decided to "give it a try" and visit some areas outside the Falmouth port area (my wife was looking for a specific coffee that was not available in the port area). Most areas where dirty and continually had to fend off hawkers that wanted to "show us the city" or "provide a great time" but otherwise acceptable. What was not acceptable was being physically pulled into shops over in the straw market area. They then insinuated that you "needed to buy something". Very aggressive. We headed straight back to the ship after that and have not ventured on our own again in Jamaica (but have no problem walking beyond the gates in Roatan, Belize City, etc.). Your mileage may vary.

Thanks for the first hand account.  I'm in the exact same family situation as you with the wife and 2 kids.  We have a tour booked with Oneil Tours.  Read some good feedback about him.  I guess guide tour aside, that will be it.  Straight back to the ship after that.   

Edited March 25 by jackadapt

[d9704011]

7 hours ago, Jetdriver787 said:

Perhaps you could offer examples that support your own?

I ain't gots any... you'se the one what brung this up.

[not-enough-cruising]

8 hours ago, Jetdriver787 said:

Well, I feel that my input on this discussion has been supported where challenged. But I can’t help feeling that further research would probably be futile if it were only to meet with curmudgeonly and vacuous retort?

 

Perhaps you could offer examples that support your own?

Let’s see, provide an example of a passenger demanding, and receiving a refund on their cruise, because the cruise stopped at an island that was on the FCDO advisory list.

I cannot provide an example of that, because IT DOES. NOT HAPPEN 

[Tolkmit]

11 hours ago, Jetdriver787 said:

Far from it! Whilst it is most certainly not a requirement, the cruise line would always encourage you strongly to avail yourself of travel insurance, since that would ordinarily provide the obvious and satisfactory route for redress in the event of most claims. 
 

The problem potentially comes when that means of redress is negated by the actions (or lack of them where they might reasonably be expected,) by the tour operator.

 

Except the cruise line is doing nothing to negate your travel insurance. You are. The cruise line does not force you to get off the ship, it's a choice you are making, and one you have agreed in your cruise contract that the cruise line is not responsible for and you are assuming all risk by doing so.

Additionally, the cruise line bears no responsibility for insuring you remain compliant with contracts you sign with a third party, which is what travel insurance is. If you choose to purchase a policy that is invalidated by you entering a certain country, then choose to enter that country; that is 100% on you.

[3yorkies]

On 3/22/2024 at 7:41 PM, Merion_Mom said:

I walk around the town of Falmouth by myself.  I never feel unsafe.  The people are lovely, helpful, warm, and caring.

100% agree.    Falmouth is one of my favorites!     Great people, fun shops, food is very good everywhere including street vendors.  Erie mon!!