Silversea Shenanigans Onboard Silver Muse

[Gourmet Gal]

1 hour ago, tfred said:

Every hotel chain in the world has a loyalty program.

Well, not true.  Four Seasons, Aman, Peninsula and Rosewood do not have a loyalty program yet there’s immense loyalty to the quality and hospitality of the product.  So true that there’s still an untapped market of wealthy people who have never cruised so RC now has ships with FS having a small ship in the pipeline but very interesting that it’s being marketed more like a hotel.  Not all-inclusive - the pricing is per suite not per person and only includes breakfast and non-alcoholic beverages.  Many wealthy travelers want exclusivity, unique experiences, luxury yet value for the money and time spent. They aren’t as interested in chasing after points and miles.  SS seems to be moving away from satisfying that segment.  I’m noticing a lot more chatter on the SS board about status matching, hotel points and perks as more RCI passengers migrate over.  

Edited June 16 by Gourmet Gal

[RetiredandTravel]

Cruise lines have added a considerable amount of capacity (ships) in the luxury/premium category over the last 5-10 years.  Thousands (tens of thousands?) of new room have been introduced.  When they add that many rooms the product will be diluted.  Twenty years ago SS probably needed 800-1000 people a week to fill their ships.  Today maybe 5-6k?  This also true at Regent, Oceania, Seabourn, Viking and more.  Basic supply/demand means they are attracting people who are willing to spend less on a cruise, so they cut corners to keep prices competitive.  Granted its more complicated because there are more people willing to pay the higher price but one would still think they need the lower realative price point to fill ships.

 

There are vacations that we feel a cruise is the best venue.  We like the small luxury ships so we only have a few choices. .  When we feel the product quality doesn't warrant the price we'll stick to land based trips.

 

 

Edited June 16 by RetiredandTravel

[taxatty]

As Terry keeps pointing out, Royal Caribbean's stock has been doing really well lately, notwithstanding its massive COVID-required debt burden. (As an aside, its stock that I purchased many years ago has been by far the best investment I've ever made, especially after many shareholder OBCs, which now apply to Silversea). Royal's ships are almost all sailing full een with prices steadily rising, its notorious fake "sales" that truly aren't, and the obvious and hidden onboard and administrative cutbacks.  It was able to successfully offload Azamara, which didn't make sense for it to keep as a division due to offering a product at a level somewhere between X and Silversea. Why should it do anything differently?

[taxatty]

4 minutes ago, RetiredandTravel said:

There are vacations that we feel a cruise is the best venue.  We like the small luxury ships so we only have a few choices. .  When we feel the product quality doesn't warrant the price we'll stick to land based trips.

 

 

Remember that there is a constantly growing segment of wealthy, sophisticated travelers that physically can no longer handle land based trips unless chauffeured everywhere by one means or another. Silversea will always cater well to that crowd, as will higher-end river cruises where you step off the ship in the middle of a town or city.

[taxatty]

31 minutes ago, Gourmet Gal said:

 Many wealthy travelers want exclusivity, unique experiences, luxury yet value for the money and time spent. They aren’t as interested in chasing after points and miles.  SS seems to be moving away from satisfying that segment.  I’m noticing a lot more chatter on the SS board about status matching, hotel points and perks as more RCI passengers migrate over.  

There are also plenty of travelers who love and can afford Silversea but make it work better financially using points and miles as well as hunting for airfare and accommodations deals. For example, with a couple of exceptions, rather than shelling out $$$ to fly overseas business or first class, we have made numerous trips in the "pointy-end" of the plane using CC miles or points/miles upgrades, and stayed at some truly excellent hotels using points or Four Seasons "3 for 2" deals. Of course, you must either take the time to research all of this yourself or pay someone else to do it for you.

 

As for status matching, the only real added benefits for us have been the 10% booking discount and free laundry. Unless that causes long-time Silversea pax to have their laundry significantly delayed, that's not much to complain about.

Edited June 16 by taxatty

[RetiredandTravel]

9 minutes ago, taxatty said:

Remember that there is a constantly growing segment of wealthy, sophisticated travelers that physically can no longer handle land based trips unless chauffeured everywhere by one means or another. Silversea will always cater well to that crowd, as will higher-end river cruises where you step off the ship in the middle of a town or city.

 

Agreed, but there has been so much capacity added that I think the product quality will be reduced some to be at a price point to attact people.  Still a high quality product just not quite as high.  

 

21 minutes ago, RetiredandTravel said:

Granted its more complicated because there are more people willing to pay the higher price but one would still think they need the lower realative price point to fill ships

 

 

[TLCOhio]

12 minutes ago, taxatty said:

As Terry keeps pointing out, Royal Caribbean's stock has been doing really well lately, notwithstanding its massive COVID-required debt burden. (As an aside, its stock that I purchased many years ago has been by far the best investment I've ever made, especially after many shareholder OBCs, which now apply to Silversea). 

 

Appreciate these great comments and follow-ups our Miami friend above, R&T, etc.  Also, smartly noted by Gourmet Gal about "Many wealthy travelers want exclusivity."  

 

Yes, much is in "play", changing and evolving.  In the past week, I have seen a number of TV ads on two different, major cable news networks pitching for Silversea.  

 

Advertising through TV to reach older, more affluent consumers??  That tells me that Silversea is seeing some slowing in future bookings and that they need to do "more" to keep their increasing number of ships full and profitable.

 

Keeping quality high and foolishly pinching pennies?  Yes, we saw both in action during our February Mumbai to Singapore Silver Moon sailing.  

 

With more new ships, plus their large existing fleet, more "creativity" will be need to fill this enlarged Silversea capacity.  Especially when and if the economy tightens.   

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Lisbon, NWSpain, Bordeaux/Brittany: Live/blog, June 2017 from Portugal to France along scenic Atlantic Coast on the Silver Spirit.  Now at 35,734 views.  Many pictures, details for history, food, culture, etc.:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2511358

[tfred]

11 minutes ago, Gourmet Gal said:

Well, not true.  Four Seasons, Aman, Peninsula and Rosewood do not have a loyalty program yet there’s immense loyalty to the quality and hospitality of the product.  So true that there’s still an untapped market of wealthy people who have never cruised so RC now has ships with FS having a small ship in the pipeline but very interesting that it’s being marketed more like a hotel.  Not all-inclusive - the pricing is per suite not per person and only includes breakfast and non-alcoholic beverages.  Many wealthy travelers want exclusivity, unique experiences, luxury yet value for the money and time spent. They aren’t as interested in chasing after points and miles.  SS seems to be moving away from satisfying that segment.  I’m noticing a lot more chatter on the SS board about status matching, hotel points and perks as more RCI passengers migrate over.  

that is true for the very high end hotels. They can stand on their own - most hotels can't 

 

Depending on which direction you are coming from the SSea product is certainly the next step up from X and probably lux for those folks. If you always been on SSea then you probably are wondering what is going on with these newbies on board?  The newbies are looking for the same thing that everyone does - value for money. They are coming from suites on X and Royal and they ain't cheap - certainly equal price per day as SSea   

 

Most of these folks are not taking multiple cruises every year - they are just looking for a good vacation with the limited time they have while working - based on my limited chats in the suite area on X.  They aren't inside cabin, beer swilling people looking for free everything

 

SSea may not be as "exclusive" as before but without a pipeline of new customers they will be doomed.  It cost money to find new customers, less so if you already know them.  New builds, refits and maintaining what you have in place is expensive. Single digit margins don't cut it in any business 

 

I never got the points thing in cruises. You really have to do an incredible  amount of cruises to get anything of value. That said, there are enough long term cruisers are X that would take a look at SSea for very little recognition - in this case free laundry   

 

 

[tfred]

46 minutes ago, RetiredandTravel said:

 

Agreed, but there has been so much capacity added that I think the product quality will be reduced some to be at a price point to attact people.  Still a high quality product just not quite as high.  

 

 

every single activity on board ship has a cost associated with it. The cruise line decides if that expense really makes an impact on the end user experience to justify the cost   There is also an overall budget for everything  

 

Midnight buffets are certainly one example. Everyone talked about it (and some still do with tears in their eyes) but they became a giant money hole for little gain.  SSea is always evaluating maximizing pax experience and adjusting its offering  One person's "have to have lux", is another's "pfft"

[Gourmet Gal]

1 hour ago, taxatty said:

For example, with a couple of exceptions, rather than shelling out $$$ to fly overseas business or first class, we have made numerous trips in the "pointy-end" of the plane using CC miles or points/miles upgrades, and stayed at some truly excellent hotels using points or Four Seasons "3 for 2" deals. Of course, you must either take the time to research all of this yourself or pay someone else to do it for you.

 

Why would you ever pay anyone to put together a trip for you?  They make commission everywhere except from the airlines and a good TA will book your air for you without an extra fee.  

[tnm6217]

1 hour ago, taxatty said:

Unless that causes long-time Silversea pax to have their laundry significantly delayed, that's not much to complain about.

 

I'm glad to say there have been zero issues with the speed and quality of the free laundry service onboard Muse. We've sent two loads off in the morning and had them back by 4 or 5. I believe we are close to capacity on this sailing.

[Gourmet Gal]

Just an aside, remember the days before all these loyalty programs?  You simply paid for a service or product and looked for best value.  Now the calculation is more complicated but the programs are a huge marketing expense which we pay for anyway.  Seems like we all need to be bribed into loyalty with gimmicks while service, quality and true value are being slowly diminished.  

[tfred]

7 minutes ago, tnm6217 said:

 

I'm glad to say there have been zero issues with the speed and quality of the free laundry service onboard Muse. We've sent two loads off in the morning and had them back by 4 or 5. I believe we are close to capacity on this sailing.

good to hear. On X it can take 2 days 

[tfred]

7 minutes ago, Gourmet Gal said:

Just an aside, remember the days before all these loyalty programs?  You simply paid for a service or product and looked for best value.  Now the calculation is more complicated but the programs are a huge marketing expense which we pay for anyway.  Seems like we all need to be bribed into loyalty with gimmicks while service, quality and true value are being slowly diminished.  

I have a ton of miles (still, although retired) and use them for Biz flights overseas. 

 

The real value of loyalty and status for air and hotel is when things go south they will take care you. Rebooking cancelled flights, occasional seat upgrade, getting a room when sold out are what you can really use. It's more guest recovery than value added. 

 

Can't quite figure out what upper level gets you on cruise ships. Expedited on/off the ship and a few things are nice but not enough to actually chase status. 

[taxatty]

1 hour ago, Gourmet Gal said:

Why would you ever pay anyone to put together a trip for you?  They make commission everywhere except from the airlines and a good TA will book your air for you without an extra fee.  

I completely agree with you, and as one of my hobbies I personally handle all of our own trip planning and bookings, but we use a TA for cruises because of the OBC and other benefits we get. Heck, having the TA deal with Silversea's administrative personnel as an intermediary instead of trying to DIY is almost worth using a TA by itself. On the other hand, we all know people who would rather pay someone else to do the work, almost regardless of the cost.

[Gourmet Gal]

2 minutes ago, taxatty said:

I completely agree with you, and as one of my hobbies I personally handle all of our own trip planning and bookings, but we use a TA for cruises because of the OBC and other benefits we get. Heck, having the TA deal with Silversea's administrative personnel as an intermediary instead of trying to DIY is almost worth using a TA by itself. On the other hand, we all know people who would rather pay someone else to do the work, almost regardless of the cost.

Still not understanding…I plan most of my own travel as well but use a TA for certain perks but I’ve never had to pay for the service.  Are you saying you actually have to pay a TA?

[taxatty]

There are "travel consultants" and other services you can choose from to create your vacation where in the end you will pay more than if you booked things yourself. Some package deals they offer can be an overall bargain (like our Rocky Mountaineer Banff-Vancouver train/pre- and post-hotels and meals trip years ago), others are not.  

[DavyWavey70]

5 hours ago, Gourmet Gal said:

Why would you ever pay anyone to put together a trip for you?  They make commission everywhere except from the airlines and a good TA will book your air for you without an extra fee.  

But they do also have access to sometimes hugely discounted components if they are licensed to use the dynamic packaging systems. A Good TA will be on the ball, knowing where and when heavy discounts are due to drop. Flights, hotels, cruises, transfers, excursions and so on are all often available to be packaged at much lower rates than retail. As an example, my last cruise was less than half of the rate of a direct booking with the line but also included drinks, tips, dining, Wi-Fi  and obc for no extra. I Do admit when your TA is your partner they do work pretty hard to get you the biggest bang for your buck though. 

[Dolcevita Diva]

3 hours ago, Gourmet Gal said:

Still not understanding…I plan most of my own travel as well but use a TA for certain perks but I’ve never had to pay for the service.  Are you saying you actually have to pay a TA?

Same (plan my own travel but use a TA for certain perks on Silversea cruises). 

A cousin and her husband started cruising with Silversea around 10 years ago when they retired and have mentioned how happy they were with their TA several times, so I asked for his contact information.  I was taken aback to learn that their TA only works with new clients via an Annual Travel Subscription (by invitation) at $5,000 a year for 20 hours of assistance, with additional hours billed as needed. 

Needless to say, I have not availed myself of this TA's services.  

[Winemaker_1]

18 minutes ago, Dolcevita Diva said:

I was taken aback to learn that their TA only works with new clients via an Annual Travel Subscription (by invitation) at $5,000 a year for 20 hours of assistance, with additional hours billed as needed. 

Needless to say, I have not availed myself of this TA's services.  

 

I was laughing my a^$ off when I read this.  I understand 'concierge medicine' has become a thing these days, but concierge travel agents?  That person is delusional.  I can't swing a dead cat without hitting a travel agent.  There may have been a 2023-2024 travel bubble, this is already dissipating.  Cruise pricing for 2025 (outside of Alaska) has already begun to decline.    

[DavyWavey70]

38 minutes ago, Dolcevita Diva said:

Same (plan my own travel but use a TA for certain perks on Silversea cruises). 

A cousin and her husband started cruising with Silversea around 10 years ago when they retired and have mentioned how happy they were with their TA several times, so I asked for his contact information.  I was taken aback to learn that their TA only works with new clients via an Annual Travel Subscription (by invitation) at $5,000 a year for 20 hours of assistance, with additional hours billed as needed. 

Needless to say, I have not availed myself of this TA's services.  

That sounds like a person with a rampant personality disorder who’s somehow managed to acquire a list of clients that aren’t fit to manage their own affairs. A match made in heaven. 

[MuseCruiser]

10 hours ago, Gourmet Gal said:

Well, not true.  Four Seasons, Aman, Peninsula and Rosewood do not have a loyalty program yet there’s immense loyalty to the quality and hospitality of the product.  So true that there’s still an untapped market of wealthy people who have never cruised so RC now has ships with FS having a small ship in the pipeline but very interesting that it’s being marketed more like a hotel.  Not all-inclusive - the pricing is per suite not per person and only includes breakfast and non-alcoholic beverages.  Many wealthy travelers want exclusivity, unique experiences, luxury yet value for the money and time spent. They aren’t as interested in chasing after points and miles.  SS seems to be moving away from satisfying that segment.  I’m noticing a lot more chatter on the SS board about status matching, hotel points and perks as more RCI passengers migrate over.  

Hence my comment to UK Jeff. It’s moving to a premium model than a true luxury product no matter what words they use to describe it. 

[drron29]

Every TA gets paid if you use their services. We know our TA gets a commission from SS when we book through her but it is very much worth it even with just the OBC. An added bonus is when things go pear shaped she really does incredibly well sorting things out. And always at a cheaper price or greater refund than we could get.

 

When it comes to air fares we still have quite a few points enabling us to fly at the pointy end of the plane and we manage that ourselves. For simple revenue fares we also do it ourselves.

When we have multiple flights we often use a TA who does charge us $A200 a booking. But it is so worth it. Two examples. First with our 2 recent cruises on SS that included Japan. We used an airfare that was 8 segments as a return from our home airport. We could do a Circle Pacific fare on One World but because of mileage limits could only do 6 segments. Adding the 2 extra segments inbusiness class would cost $A3750 on top of the Circle fare of $A5399. So over $A9000. The fare this TA could get us was $A8100 with 3 of the sectors in First class the others in business Class. And they were the 3 longest sectors.

 

Another was as part of an Asian trip fling from Saigon to Bangkok. Found a sale on Air France so a first class ticket was less than $100 more than an economy fare.

[Gourmet Gal]

1 hour ago, drron29 said:

When we have multiple flights we often use a TA who does charge us $A200 a booking. But it is so worth it. Two examples. First with our 2 recent cruises on SS that included Japan.

That’s surprising but perhaps it’s different in Australia.  I’ve never had a TA charge for booking air when also booking a cruise or other expensive trip.

[highplanesdrifters]

@drron29 is right. Depending on the agency and their relationship with airlines TAs can have access to fares we do not. When things go pear shape is when the real value comes in, so true.

 

I could easily make a case for paying a TA for services.  Our TA is a Goddess. In the beginning she gave us modest rebates on our travel.  She was so helpful and saved us so much we asked her to stop sending those checks.  She never charges us above booking rates although I would happily pay it.   The battles she takes on with the cruise lines are legendary, especially now with all the pricing games they are playing.  The amount she saves us annually is in the tens of thousands.  We now occasionally send her an unsolicited check in appreciation. That along with chocolate and Champagne. 😃