Dogs On the Shadow

[KY Deb]

In a post about the Shadow currently in New England/ Canada, a guest currently on board posted this after the Shadow had to miss a port due to weather.  Is this a common occurrence??   
 

 

It's another day at sea, so the two large "service dogs" will have to just take their walks onboard.

 

Yes...former show dogs, that now have little collar tags saying "Service Dog".  Cutely avoiding the "no pets" policy.

 

I pity the next guests in that cabin.

 

 

[lincslady]

Has anyone questioned senior staff as to the legality, let alone suitability, of two large dogs, which are obviously pets, being allowed on board?  It seems to be getting more and more usual on ships, notably Seabourn and Regent as well.

[Observer]

Perhaps these are the same two dogs I saw escorted by two male guests a couple of years ago. When I expressed dismay that they were going around La Terrazza with their masters during lunch, one of the men asked smugly "Do you have a problem with this?"   The answer would have been definitely "yes." The dogs I encountered, which may be different ones, had no markings as service dogs.

[Tothesunset]

Dogs I can take. Humans? Not so much. 

[lincslady]

So you don't mind finding little deposits on the corridor carpets, then?  Yes, it has happened.

[Tothesunset]

2 minutes ago, lincslady said:

So you don't mind finding little deposits on the corridor carpets, then?  Yes, it has happened.

I can take that. I've eaten at Terrazza! 

[dawntrdr]

I've never seen a dog on board a ship, but the problem I see again and again on land is that people who insist on traveling with their pets do not want the pets with them 24/7, so Fido gets left in the room while they go on a tour, shopping, or lounge at the pool.  The animal, which is confused and frightened to be left in a strange place with strange smells, exhibits stress behaviors such as constant barking, chewing, scent marking, pacing and scratching, to the distress of the neighbors.   And who wants to be the next person in that room?  No amount of Bvlgari is going to cover that.  Moreover, I can't see how the pet can ever leave the ship, since immigration requirements for bringing animals in a country can be very restrictive - they can't just stroll down the gangway.  

[UKCruiseJeff]

9 minutes ago, dawntrdr said:

I've never seen a dog on board a ship, but the problem I see again and again on land is that people who insist on traveling with their pets do not want the pets with them 24/7, so Fido gets left in the room while they go on a tour, shopping, or lounge at the pool.  The animal, which is confused and frightened to be left in a strange place with strange smells, exhibits stress behaviors such as constant barking, chewing, scent marking, pacing and scratching, to the distress of the neighbors.   And who wants to be the next person in that room?  No amount of Bvlgari is going to cover that.  Moreover, I can't see how the pet can ever leave the ship, since immigration requirements for bringing animals in a country can be very restrictive - they can't just stroll down the gangway.  

 

You pose a very interesting question.

 

How can a dog be a genuine service dog if they are not essential to the owner when they get off of the ship in a port for the day?

 

Time for them to be banned on the basis that the ship does not have the essential services to cater for them?

 

🤔

 

Jeff

 

 

[DavyWavey70]

16 minutes ago, dawntrdr said:

I've never seen a dog on board a ship, but the problem I see again and again on land is that people who insist on traveling with their pets do not want the pets with them 24/7, so Fido gets left in the room while they go on a tour, shopping, or lounge at the pool.  The animal, which is confused and frightened to be left in a strange place with strange smells, exhibits stress behaviors such as constant barking, chewing, scent marking, pacing and scratching, to the distress of the neighbors.   And who wants to be the next person in that room?  No amount of Bvlgari is going to cover that.  Moreover, I can't see how the pet can ever leave the ship, since immigration requirements for bringing animals in a country can be very restrictive - they can't just stroll down the gangway.  

Whilst I'm a real dog lover myself and own a very dog friendly Hotel, I'd never dream of trying to pass off my dogs as service animals to take them somewhere they shouldn't be. You do need to question what service they are providing if the owner can manage a whole day in port without them and how essential it is. In my mind if the dog is a service animal surely they should be with the owner 24/7? 

[UKCruiseJeff]

They use to have poop decks.  

 

 

[Will Work for Tiramisu]

I suppose they'll be installing these amenities soon...

[MissSophia]

QM2 has dedicated kennels and a cattery on board with the appropriate facilities and kennel staff…..they even have a lamppost!

 

S 🐕‍🦺

[PaulaJK]

22 minutes ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

 

You pose a very interesting question.

 

How can a dog be a genuine service dog if they are not essential to the owner when they get off of the ship in a port for the day?

 

Time for them to be banned on the basis that the ship does not have the essential services to cater for them?

 

🤔

 

Jeff

 

I do not know whether the ADA covers this topic. Here in the USA the problem is not with legitimate, trained service dogs. They are unobtrusive…and most treat this respectfully. However, entitled-self centered ( maybe sociopathic) folks often lie, claiming that they are service animals when they are not. This has increasingly been a problem for airlines and businesses, especially when you add in ‘emotional support

’ claims.  Some folks have purchased ( fake) certifications via the web along w vests, tags,etc.

 

Some  of the transatlantic vessels ( SSFrance, Cunard) used to permit dogs ( not service). They were maintained in a kennel and their owners could visit them. They were not walked in the passenger areas. It is an interesting question about immigration and quarantine.

The cruise line should care more about this behavior which smirks at all pax and should care about its property.

Hopefully, banning service dogs..and thereby the people who require one, will not be the answer.

[UKCruiseJeff]

5 minutes ago, PaulaJK said:

The cruise line should care more about this behavior which smirks at all pax and should care about its property.

Hopefully, banning service dogs..and thereby the people who require one, will not be the answer.

 

I don’t think it unreasonable for people who wish to take a cruise and who genuinely need to take a service dog that in the interests of themselves, and their dog and in consideration of the other passengers, choose a cruise ship that has  the appropriate facilities to accommodate them. 

 

Jeff

[PaulaJK]

Jeff, I agree w the concept…but

- many people need their service animal 24/7. ( eg blind, unsighted)

-There may be very few ships offering such services. As with most issues focused around disability, there probably would need to be changes.

[UKCruiseJeff]

35 minutes ago, PaulaJK said:

Jeff, I agree w the concept…but

- many people need their service animal 24/7. ( eg blind, unsighted)

-There may be very few ships offering such services. As with most issues focused around disability, there probably would need to be changes.

 

There is always a reasonable balance that has to be compromised in caring society between the needs of majorities and minorities.  Until relatively recently the most common type of service animal was for the blind.  Since then there’s been an increase in the categories of qualifying dogs and a corresponding abuse of these new qualifying categories used by people simply wishing to take their much loved dogs on holiday with them.  Effectively the human is a support human for the dog rather than the other way round because they do not wish to leave their dogs in kennels or in the care of someone else.    

 

I obviously don’t think blind people abuse this but it is the other categories that have people taking improper advantage.  These people should not be indulged in order to protect blind people. 

 

There are other important considerations and factors to be considered.

 

I’m sympathetic to blind people’s needs but I’m not convinced that a cruise ship should be presumed to be the best and a sufficiently safe place for a solo blind person.  This has considerations for both themselves and other passengers. Mustering and lifeboats being a good example. Presumably a blind person should for their own enjoyment and safety on a cruise ship at sea - and for the safety of others - be at least accompanied by a sighted person and I’m not persuaded that the dog in those circumstances should be considered both essential and a universal right for blind people to impose on cruise lines to accommodate them without suitable facilities already in place simply to offer the right of the blind person to bring their dog on their holiday with them.  

 

Jeff

Edited June 27 by UKCruiseJeff

[dawntrdr]

Seeing-Eye guide dogs are extensively trained and tested by professional companies and have written credentials.  Dogs that "wash out" of seeing-eye school are often diverted to become support animals for veterans and are also credentialled.  If a passenger wants to bring such an animal onboard, it is not unreasonable to make them produce those credentials in advance and also proof of shots and good health.  I admire these "working" dogs who are trained to be well behaved.  What I have a problem with is people who assume they can bring any pets anywhere as "emotional support" animals.  See, for example, this story where a passenger abandoned her "emotional support animal" at the airport rather than get it a travel crate:

https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/woman-abandon-dog-pittsburgh-international-airport-waives-preliminary-hearing/

 

Follow up:  that dog received a ton of "emotional support" from the community and was happily adopted.  

[lincslady]

As far as I am aware, the only line which has genuine facilities for animals on board is Cunard, essentially on transatlantic crossings, when they have proper kennels and all necessary facilities, and owners - who generally are crossing to live abroad for a while - can take their pets with them. Other lines do not (so far anyway), and I know that the staff and crew have a lot of problems in things like cleaning up cabins etc. - and many passengers object strongly to dogs being brought into lounges and restaurants and sitting on chairs etc., just to allow their owners to indulge themselves with an excuse that they are 'emotional support' animals.  Obviously this not apply to genuine guide dogs for blind people, and one or two other disabilities.

 

I agree that some dogs are nicer to have around than some humans, but I feel that this new trend is taking the mickey out of cruise lines rules.  Those getting away with it are I guess likely to be in top suites, very frequent cruisers,  friends or relations of management, or it seems with a job on board.

[Tothesunset]

To be honest, if it were a choice between fellow passengers bringing their dogs or their children I'd go for the dogs. 

 

Dogs don't:

 

1. Carry norovirus, covid, measles, TB etc

2. Run around unsupervised. 

3. Burst into tears and have a paddy if they don't get their ice cream RIGHT NOW. 

4. Bomb into the pool (or pee in it for that matter) 

5. Hog the ping pong table/pool 

 

 

I could go on. In fact, I will:

 

 

6. Eat chips/chocolate/sweets all day

7. Leave smears from 6 above on furnishings

8. Whinge plaintively and loudly that they are too hot, too cold, hungry, thirsty, feel sick. 

9. Make you wonder where their parents are

10. Make you wonder how 10 million years of evolution has passed some people by. 

[UKCruiseJeff]

A hard-earned cruise is not a suitable place to be forced to go through the motions.

[PaulaJK]

1 hour ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

 

There is always a reasonable balance that has to be compromised in caring society between the needs of majorities and minorities.  Until relatively recently the most common type of service animal was for the blind.  Since then there’s been an increase in the categories of qualifying dogs and a corresponding abuse of these new qualifying categories used by people simply wishing to take their much loved dogs on holiday with them.  Effectively the human is a support human for the dog rather than the other way round because they do not wish to leave their dogs in kennels or in the care of someone else.    

 

I obviously don’t think blind people abuse this but it is the other categories that have people taking improper advantage.  These people should not be indulged in order to protect blind people. 

 

There are other important considerations and factors to be considered.

 

I’m sympathetic to blind people’s needs but I’m not convinced that a cruise ship should be presumed to be the best and a sufficiently safe place for a solo blind person.  This has considerations for both themselves and other passengers. Mustering and lifeboats being a good example. Presumably a blind person should for their own enjoyment and safety on a cruise ship at sea - and for the safety of others - be at least accompanied by a sighted person and I’m not persuaded that the dog in those circumstances should be considered both essential and a universal right for blind people to impose on cruise lines to accommodate them without suitable facilities already in place simply to offer the right of the blind person to bring their dog on their holiday with them.  

 

Jeff

I only chose the blind as an example, not  as a cause or total focus for cruising. I suspect that most disabled persons have some limitations that could affect other people and therefore accommodations need thought as well as thoughtfulness. In my linited exoerience, most travel w family or companion. I was arguing ags ‘ban all dogs’. As usual, the people who cheat will eventually ruin it for the deserving.

Again, it seems that the cruise lines will have to plan their approach lest they be inundated w the sociopathic pretenders’ pets. I believe I recall that the airlines did some of this in no longer allowing pet alligators, etc.

[UKCruiseJeff]

1 minute ago, PaulaJK said:

I only chose the blind as an example, not  as a cause or total focus for cruising. I suspect that most disabled persons have some limitations that could affect other people and therefore accommodations need thought as well as thoughtfulness. In my linited exoerience, most travel w family or companion. I was arguing ags ‘ban all dogs’. As usual, the people who cheat will eventually ruin it for the deserving.

Again, it seems that the cruise lines will have to plan their approach lest they be inundated w the sociopathic pretenders’ pets. I believe I recall that the airlines did some of this in no longer allowing pet alligators, etc.

 

Thanks,  I meant no criticism as I enjoy the debate, I was simply responding to the example of your choice.  

 

In simple terms it seems obvious that a blind person should never be on a cruise unaccompanied by a human.  A dog cannot point out on deck on a rocking ship where the blind person should grab to steady themselves.

 

If you take blind people out of this argument I’m not certain that we should be so overly concerned about all the other categories.

 

Jeff

[drron29]

A slippery slope. Getting a bit like USA air lines a little while ago. People pushing the envelope eventually led to the inevitable backlash.

I remember waiting to enter an Admiral’s club and the fellow in front had a pig. The agent refused admission and the fellow went on a real rant that it was a service animal and he was allowed to take it on the plane. Yes sir you are allowed on the plane but this is a private club and the pig is not allowed.

[lincslady]

Perhaps I could refer some of you to post no. 20 in the review of the Shadow cruise to Canada, if you have not already read it.  It seems to confirm my worst fears about the unsuitability of allowing dogs on board cruise ships, and I am astonished that it was allowed to happen. 

[taxatty]

On 6/27/2024 at 7:39 PM, drron29 said:

A slippery slope. Getting a bit like USA air lines a little while ago. People pushing the envelope eventually led to the inevitable backlash.

I remember waiting to enter an Admiral’s club and the fellow in front had a pig. The agent refused admission and the fellow went on a real rant that it was a service animal and he was allowed to take it on the plane. Yes sir you are allowed on the plane but this is a private club and the pig is not allowed.

No idea why not. I've seen plenty of pigs in the Admirals Clubs, like the one I saw last week at CLT who cleaned out the mini-dessert bin and stuffed the goodies in her large purse.