Non smoking and Non children ..........

[uk1]

I guess I've always wanted to ask this.

 

If Silversea were both non-smoking in all public areas and suites and balconies but excluding say outside Terraza and Humidor ....... and completely non-children ie so that you knew when you booked that there would be no one around the pool or in restaurants say under 17 ...... would SS sell more cruises or less? Not a question about whether YOU would book - but your view about society generally. Not really wanting to start an ethical debate just interested in what would actually happen and I only ask because I think bookings would increase ......

 

 

 

Jeff

[blackbird71]

Renaissance Cruises was just that and they are toast...

 

[cberge]

I would book a cruise like that in a heartbeat,and I am a smoker,BUT never inside anywhere ever so as long as I could smoke outside,and be free of childres as I get hives around them( I have 2 grown) I would love this kind of cruise.I think there is a market out there for it and Ren did not go under just because of the no smoking( they really had NO smoking anywhere period) no kids,but for other reasons as well although I don't think these policies helped them.I am not sure if any line would do this although they may try for one ship to test the waters.

[DebbieH103]

I think they would do better limiting age to 12 or 14.

[simonv]

Less.

[Leonid]

Great idea...I doubt that RC's smoking policy was the main reason that "put them under." Oceania allows very limited smoking and they are doing quite well. SB, on the other hand, has recently stated that they are going to limit smoking, but if our last cruise on the Pride is any indication, nothing major will change. SB seems to attract chain smokers who couldn't care less about accommodating anyone other than their fellow smokers. That's why we stopped sailing SB (5 cruises) and are trying SS this summer to Alaska.

[DebbieH103]

I meant better to limit to age 12 or 14 than adults only for them. That would be a deterrent to most parents.

[blackbird71]

Great idea...I doubt that RC's smoking policy was the main reason that "put them under." Oceania allows very limited smoking and they are doing quite well. .

 

But they were also NO KIDS and Oceania allows kids. Plus Carnival's no smoking ship is now smoking.

 

RC died because they cut out too many groups of people. A lot of parents like Europe cruises with their kids.

[its_my_dime]

From the cruise line's point of view, the game is to maximize the number of passengers willing to sail while minimizing the number who are "turned off" by restrictive policies. It is called "marketing".

 

As a result, you get some interesting and conflicting policies. For example, the SeaDream, that talks about 55 discerning couples in its brochure and tells people that there are no facilities for children, also give multiple cabin family discounts. As a result and based on our experience and the crusie board postings, it has been flooded with children, teens, and extended families over the holidays. So, they discourage children but give discounts for bringing them.

 

Clearly, some marketing whiz at Silversea decided that "wellness" was the buzz word of the week and the press release received wide dissemination. Yet, if you read the fine print elsewhere, you see that the ship allows smoking in part of virtually every external and internal public area including cabins and balconies. So, they talk about "wellness" and have special programs, but somehow, that doesn't include prevening exposure to second hand smoke.

 

I'm sure there are other examples.

 

I don't think anyone can cause a change in policy. However, exposure on this and other travel boards can help because the cruise lines and travel agents do read these boards. The ships also read the rating cards handed out at the end of trips but comments need to be absolutely brutal to get their attention.

 

I do note that Seabourn did, I believe, tighten up its smoking policy at the start of 2006 based on numerous comments and complaints so perhaps others may also change policies if enough people care.

[Leonid]

SB may have said that are tightening up their smoking rules; however, people with whom we cruised in 2005 and have cruised since the beginning of 2006 have said that smoking is still allowed in the only forward lounge (the main problem area) and in some of the aft lounges. Smoking last year wasn't a problem in the main dining (this year it is non-smoking).Smokers were segregated in a small corner of the room and tended to eat quite late.

I don't know what SB has done on their aft (outside) dining area, but it wasn't a problem even if people smoked next to you; i.e., second hand smoke wasn't ever a problem no matter which way the wind was blowing. Most of the considerate smokers refrained from puffing in small, enclosed areas.

[cporter]

One of the things that first attracted us to SS was the thought that there would be virtually no children. Of course all of the rest of the experience was important. My husband and I have raised ours and have no interest in cruising with kids.

 

Funny as it may seem, I don't really care about the smoking as long as they aren't doing it while I am eating.

[uk1]

Thanks.....

 

I think the thing with kids is that with adults, generally you can get away from any you want to avoid. They don't move quickly and install themselves for long periods in one place. People always think their own kids are wonderful, but whereas one adult rarely changes a cruise for everyone else - a single child - or even two together can effectively ruin a cruise for hundreds of people. They run around, scream, whine, keep running through the same doors and let them slam, and they don't have a volume control, and their parents often give them walkie talkies .......etc. Of course there are excpetions and some kids are wonderful, but I think that an interview stage is impractical - it has to be all or no kids.

 

I ask the question because the one thing that makes me edgy on a cruise is "are there any kids". Like you, us that feel this way need not justify themselves. At the moment EVERY cruise product accomodates children. It makes sense on large ships with facilities, but not on small ones where most customers seem to me to be looking for a child-free cruise. My question is, is there an opening for a Sandals like cruise product?

 

 

Jeff

[mdmourges]

My children are grown now, so at this point in my life I have no desire to cruise with other folks kids that are still learning social skills. Kids running around (and they will and do) adds nothing to my vacation.

 

Mark

[wripro]

unfortunately, I believe those who prefer no children on SS are talking to deaf ears. Parents who bring along their kids to inappropriate places do not limit this behavior to ships. You find them all over, in restaurants, stores etc. And if you dare to ask them to control the kids you are rewarded with a dirty look. These people are oblivious to anything but their own needs and wants. I think it will take a tragedy like one of the children suffering an injury while unsupervised and the parent suing SS before any real action is taken by the line. 48 children aboard a SS ship is, imo, a gross violation of its marketing strategy and an insult to its dedicated cruisers.

[Leonid]

A "Sandals" type cruise is a wonderful idea. What we have today is the "Beaches" type of cruising. For those who are not familiar with Beaches, it's the resorts spawned by Sandals to accommodate families.Sandals is "adults only."

Sandals has it right. To bad the cruise industry, in general, has not gotten on board. At least Disney caters to families and you know what you are getting.

[Silver Pearl]

One of the ways Disney caters to families is by providing great areas that are off-limits to children. These include certain nightclubs, the Palo restaurant, and the adult pool and bar area.

 

I've been on Disney cruises loaded with carpet bunnies and been able to find plenty of peace and quiet. Not that there's anything wrong with carpet bunnies.

 

--Rich

 

A "Sandals" type cruise is a wonderful idea. What we have today is the "Beaches" type of cruising. For those who are not familiar with Beaches, it's the resorts spawned by Sandals to accommodate families.Sandals is "adults only."

Sandals has it right. To bad the cruise industry, in general, has not gotten on board. At least Disney caters to families and you know what you are getting.

[MrsWaldo]

There is definitely a market for both Luxury cruises with kids and Luxury Cruise without kids. I know the kids issue has raised its head on the Seabourn board as well. Four seasons Hotels (which SS uses in a number of Ports for accom) has recognised this niche in the luxury market and has things that specifically cater for Families...we often choose FS based on this knowing they are kid tolerant

 

Here's my view..Silverseas already conducts Wine Series Voyages, Culinary Arts Series etc. Why not introduce both a Schools out Series (maximum number of children and if possible timed around peak school break) and a Solitude Series ie Kids are not permitted at all.

 

This would make those people who don't want to travel with kids at all sure they are not going to have any kids. Those who don't mind or those whose kids are happy to sail without trimmings and activities would be able to book the non specific cruises. Those who think the kids need something but can't stand the thought of a Disney (NO WAY EVER FOR ME OR MR W!) would also have options.

 

SS obviously already realise there is a market because as I said on the kids kids post they suggested a carribean cruise during break may be more suitable for us. Perhaps they see there is a market but are not sure how to address the issue and cater for current and future cruising demands.

 

Edited to add they could even go all the way and make one ship totally kid free..but i think if they made the line kid free they will ultimately lose out on some clientele.

[DebbieH103]

Interestingly, Sandals/Beaches/Royal Plantation just went non-smoking in all public areas that are enclosed as of May 1, 2006.

[Leonid]

The adage "if you try to please everyone, someone will be unhappy" certainly applies. My take is book a long cruise when the children are in school. This applies mainly to Americans who we have found have the most unruly children. On 29 cruises to date, I can not remember any non-American children being difficult. Lucky?

[cporter]

The fact that we are talking about no kids says there is a market. People who take their children everywhere may not want to think so, but there is a market. My husband and I did Sandals in the Bahama's last year and it was great. No kids is a major plus for us. It is definitely not a SS cruise, so there is room for that. We would book in a heartbeat.

 

I am not an ogre. I am 49, have a son that is thinking about children. I still don't think my grandchildren, no matter how well behaved I think they are, need to go everywhere. Yes, I will be paying for babysitting instead of doing it myself! :)

[uk1]

I think your summary is spot on.

 

Those that have already "done the deed" and bought up their families (done their time!) many feel that they do not want to do it all again with other parents and kids at their stage in their learning curve. We can control our own kids - or could do - but you cannot do anything about other peoples kids. There is also that other un-talked about issue and that standards have changed. At the same time we don't want other people's kids, it seems to many of us that htye aren't doing the same job we did. They excuse the lack of parental control with the notion of increased free expression.

 

There is also a clear idea that kids-free isn't a large ship option. Large ship is low price / high density. Small ship CAN be high price, low density, high niche, high intimacy, peace etc.

 

Interesting debate.

 

Jeff

[LOGHL]

The adage "if you try to please everyone, someone will be unhappy" certainly applies. My take is book a long cruise when the children are in school. This applies mainly to Americans who we have found have the most unruly children. On 29 cruises to date, I can not remember any non-American children being difficult. Lucky?

 

We have been on very many SS cruises....Christmas week, and all other weeks. We had never had a problem with "them" until a Christmas Cruise out of South America, where there were about 32 children from a South American country (all related) Their behavior was an absolute horror....in the restaurant as well as every other venue. So it's not only Americans who have unruly children.

[merryecho]

On our first ss cruise there was a nice, quiet 60-something couple in the room next to us. It wasn't until the second night that we learned they had been brought along as babysitters for their babe-in-arms grandchild, whose parents were down the hall. Nearly every night I got to relive the joy of 3:00 am feedings. I see ss now limits children to 3 or older- I do hope they enforce it!

[cechase]

We agree with one poster that the Sandals Grand Bahamian was wonderful with their adults only policy.

 

We arrange our cruises to be timed when children are in school. There have been children on our previous five cruises, and with a few exceptions they have been well mannered. However, we do not appreciate the screaming temper tantrum in the dining room which the doting parents permit to go on too long which has happened more than we would wish.

 

The subject of infants on cruises is an entirely different matter. We have personally seen parents allow their infant in diapers sit in the hot tub - a great way to create a norovirus outbreak. There is another thread on this forum and a thread in the Celebrity forum on this subject [the latter was discontinued by the host because the comments particularly towards those of us who think that it is inappropriate to take an infant on a cruise got somewhat rough.]

 

We have reviewed SS's contract terms concerning children, and it would in our opinion be appropriate to revise that to permit a limited number of children 10 and older, but no younger. At 10 they should be amenable to discipline and control. Just my two cents worth :D

[wripro]

Make that 12 and older!