Casual dress on Formal nights

[RevNeal]

Well, I think there are some people who are snobs. We've all encountered them.

 

True ... I've been treated with disdain by a rare few (no one here) because I tend to book inside cabins.

 

LOL ... but I wasn't necessarily referring to her choice of words in that regard.

 

I was in hopes that such wasn't the case, Rita. I figured your focus was elsewhere, but I just couldn't get around the "snob" reference.

 

What I really liked about her post was how she cut to the chase with the dress standards ... and centered on what was really important ... that people dress neatly and are clean when they come into the dining room each night. After all, dress does not make a person ... as we all know. Someone could be adorned in their finest ... and still be an absolute nightmare to dine with.

 

I have dined with some of those. <shudder>

 

Personally, I'd rather dine with someone who is a lot of fun ... can hold a conversation ... and keeps the dinner table lively ... wearing their nice open collar shirt and nice pair of slacks ... than eat with a total bore who happens to have a nice tuxudo on.

 

I have enjoyed many nights with people who were not dressed according to code. They have been clean, neat, and generally made an attempt to dress according to the code, but for whatever reason they had come aboard with clothing insufficient to meeting the code (I don't think they read the Know-before-you-go booklet). Would I RATHER they had been able to abide by the code? Sure. I LIKE the dress code. But that doesn't make me a snob.

 

Heck, on the Noordam Brian sometimes didn't quite meet the dress code ... he wore jeans on the last casual night. But he also wore a jacket EVERY night and, not surprisingly, was his normal flamboyant self. :)

 

Of course, with you I would get both ... nicely dressed and a neat, fun person. So, how could I go wrong? We've got to sail together some day. I'd really enjoy that.

 

Thanks. :) We DO need to do that. Right now I'm looking at various option for late 2007 and early 2008. I've got a full plate of cruises in front of me for 2007, however. :)

[Grumpy1]

Ol' Grumpy usually avoids dress code threads like the plague, but he's going to make an observation or two on this one.

 

Back when Grumpy was a wee lad... too many years ago... every Sunday morning the whole family got all dressed up and went to church. You would not find one man in the church that was not wearing a white shirt, tie and suit. Now in those days before air conditioning, the coat might come off, the top button on the shirt undone and the tie loosened a bit, but at the end of the service you would see the ties straightened and the coats back on as the men greeted each other on the way out. Was there a code that said that was the required dress to enter a house of worship? No, it's just the way it was.

 

As time went on, sport coats became more popular, then colored shirts. Grumpy remembers many discussions among the deacons about whether this was proper dress and should these men be chastised about their lack of respect. Some pastors made it clear that they did not want parishoners that could not dress "properly". Others said they would be happy to take the outcasts into their churches.

 

Today, in most churches, you will still find the traditionalists that would never set foot in a church not wearing a suit, just as you will see a few gentlemen on the ships that dress in a suit and tie every night for dinner. But in the churches today, you also see a lot of men dressed exactly as HAL describes for casual night. Now as to whether the worship experience is somehow diminished by the evolution of the acceptable standard of dress is something that each person will have to answer, just as everyone here has to decide how the disregard of the suggested dress code affects the enjoyment of the cruise.

 

Grumpy's personal opinion? He will follow the dress code of the day if he is going to be in the dining room, the casino, or any lounge/entertainment venue, and he will enjoy doing so. But if he is going to eat in the Lido and stroll around the outside decks, he will be dressed to the "casual night" standards. And he really doesn't give a hoot how the other passengers dress. Their manners or lack of manners will not affect Grumpy's enjoyment of his cruise one iota. Well... maybe the humor factor of seeing the bathrobe guy could be a positive thing...

 

Cruising is not the same as it used to be. The times have changed, the culture has changed. It's nice that HAL still tries to keep some of the old traditions, but if HAL were to become ridgid in their enforcement of "standards" there would be more passengers leave for other lines than would be gained, IMO. HAL has figured that out too. That's why enforcement is lax on most of the ships. They try to offer passengers that want to enjoy the traditions a chance to do so without driving away those that do not know or care about traditional cruising of years gone by.

[JaiOfChi]

And, it creates a perception that HAL passengers are rigid and judgmental. That is not wholly accurate, but if I'd visited before our first HAL cruise, I would have been convinced that booking was a mistake. We have thoroughly enjoyed our cruises and I am so glad I found cruise critic after our first cruise on HAL.

 

Well spoken! I am also glad that I discovered CC after my first HAL cruise. Some of you need a vacation!!!!

[Grumpy1]

Some of you need a vacation!!!!

Yes, we probably could all enjoy a vacation... but for you to tell us we need one sounds a bit ridgid and judgemental to me....:D

[Himself]

Why would anyone want to go casual on a formal night? This stuff smacks of the late 1960's. Come on gang. Formal means dress up.

[JaiOfChi]

... but for you to tell us we need one sounds a bit ridgid and judgemental to me....:D

 

My point exactly!!!!

[jckvpa0]

Why would anyone want to go casual on a formal night? This stuff smacks of the late 1960's. Come on gang. Formal means dress up.

 

Did you read this thread from the beginning? The OP was not referring to going out dressed casual on formal night!

 

As far as the sixty's go, I was born in the sixty's & have many fond memories of my parents going out dressed very formally. As a matter of fact at about this time of year I know my mother would be making sure she was all set with her gown, gloves, purse & jewelry for their upcoming Kentucky Derby party,( mind you were from the north but this was always a very big thing in my parents circle),.

 

At present I have one more cruise scheduled with the children as the youngest will be going to college in a little over a year from now:( ! I am looking into other cruise lines & I must say I was a little taken back from some of the posts on this thread. I do understand that a very small amount of cruisers actually post on cc & for now I'm going to just go with the positive ones & hope they are the ones I run into in my future cruises :) !!!

[RevNeal]

Some of you need a vacation!!!!

 

So true ... so VERY true.

[Odd Ball]

After reading this entire thread, count me in. I need a vacation too.

[caribbean girl]

jckvpa0...don't let what you read in the boards intimidate you or color your choice of cruise line. Go with your instincts and choose what looks good to you. A lot of what you read here is much more inflated and exaggerated than the 'real' experience. I think you will, for the most part, be pleased with cruising as a whole. Most of the folks you will likely meet are just happy to be enjoying the pampering and the break from routine. Enjoy planning and anticipating!:)

 

(Though the Cape must still be chilly, I envy you being up there this time of year!! It's such a lovely part of Mass!!)

[peggy1]

I don't recall calling you or anyone else a snob, but you seem to be personalizing it all the same. I said don't be intimidated into the dress code, and for cruise critics (as a whole) to avoid snobbery. If you internalized this, what does that say??? As far as acceptance I accept your right to be whoever you are and everyone else to do as they feel is appropriate.. If the cruiseline doesn't feel someone is appropriate or appropriately dressed they will deal with it. Right? We don't need you to be the cruise police do we? Or do we? Or are you in someway connected to HAL in a way that isn't apparent? Kyros thank you for your insight and the ability to listen and accept someone else's point of view. This will be my last post on the subject, and may you be enlightened.

[caribbean girl]

I don't recall calling you or anyone else a snob, but you seem to be personalizing it all the same. I said don't be intimidated into the dress code, and for cruise critics (as a whole) to avoid snobbery. If you internalized this, what does that say??? As far as acceptance I accept your right to be whoever you are and everyone else to do as they feel is appropriate.. If the cruiseline doesn't feel someone is appropriate or appropriately dressed they will deal with it. Right? We don't need you to be the cruise police do we? Or do we? Or are you in someway connected to HAL in a way that isn't apparent? Kyros thank you for your insight and the ability to listen and accept someone else's point of view. This will be my last post on the subject, and may you be enlightened.

 

peggy1...you are indeed entitled to your opinion. If you have cruised on HAL you will perhaps realize that, what is taken here as mutiny is actually regarded quite differently on HAL. Not the BIG deal that it may be made out to be here. There is no 'cruise police' that I have ever seen.

 

I think you are being subjected to the usual dissection reserved for those on these boards who either a)have few posts to their credit, b)have a differing opinion or c)all of the above. Having 'been there', I can tell you I know how you may feel. Suffice it to say that there are still some of us here who take all of this with the well deserved 'ton of salt'. I certaily hope that, if you are in the process of planning a cruise, you enjoy the anticipation and that the journey is as pleasant as you are dreaming it to be. :)

Cheers!

[csg99]

Thanks for trying. Some of us got it ;)

[NoNoNanette]

Peggy1-

 

I agree completely with Caribbean Girl.

 

Please don't be intimidated by some of these HAL posters. I'm booked for my first HAL cruise, and have not let these judgemental folks faze me a bit. (But, I'll admit that they rattled me at first):rolleyes:

 

Let their nonsense go in one ear and out the other. You'll be able to figure out who is being CRITICAL, and who is actually trying to be helpful on this forum.:)

[krewzin]

There is no 'cruise police' that I have ever seen.

 

 

 

Not true.

 

A couple years back on the Westerdam I was pulled over in the casino and ticketed for a "cat-hat infraction (never mind the fact that I was wearing it backwards...I was let off on that one)." I was also given a warning because my cumber-bun has "no veal this meal" stitched in bright red thread on the front.

 

I was sent to my cabin w/o any dinner.

 

Later in the week I was again ticketed for saving 4 pool lounges for my family w/a book, pair of sunglasses and flip-flop while sleeping in until almost noon. But that's a whole 'nother thread....

[sunshine72]

contrary to a few previous posts, I have always found the CC HAL members to be friendly and helpful. Reverend Neal, in particular, is a good source of experience, wisdom, and reason. He often tries to reach out and make peace with others who seem to have their own agendas. Since he has cruised with HAL many times I weigh his comments and opinions more than those of people who have never or rarely cruised HAL. Experience is the best teacher.

[peggy1]

Thank you for your kind words of support. We just took the April 5 cruise on the Noordam, and that was my original point, that the actual cruise was alot less formal than I had been lead to believe from the posters on CC. There were far fewer gowns, than I have seen on many other cruises. People looked dressed but no overly formal. I most objected to posters who said that even if you chose to eat at the Lido Cafe, you shouldn't go to any public spaces or show. We saw a few people that came in shorts to the show. They got some looks, but it was their vacation and I couldn't care less. Why would anyone be concerned about the clothing of anyone else. The only person you can control is yourself. So, choose to be happy with yourself and the other stuff should fall into place. Again, thanks for reminding me that there are others who have also been slighted when going against some of the rank and file.

[caribbean girl]

peggy1...slighted here, perhaps. But, not on a cruise, that I can ever recall. And, if I was, I was probably so busy having a good time that I didn't even notice!:p We always observe the dress code suggestions and enjoy doing so. We do not, however, waste time checking out if others are doing the same and balking if they are not. You are right...one can only control one's own actions, in the end. In all honesty, I would have been more interested in the staff removing the guy coughing all over the place at breakfast, than the happy husband who wore cargo pants to the dining room one evening. Can you believe...neither happened!

 

I hope you had a wonderful time on the Noordam. We are looking forward to our annual winter cruise and I must admit, we are more than a bit curious about this wonderful, new addition to HAL's line. Happy sailing!:)

[Copper10-8]

Not true.

 

A couple years back on the Westerdam I was pulled over in the casino and ticketed for a "cat-hat infraction (never mind the fact that I was wearing it backwards...I was let off on that one)." I was also given a warning because my cumber-bun has "no veal this meal" stitched in bright red thread on the front.

 

I was sent to my cabin w/o any dinner.

 

Later in the week I was again ticketed for saving 4 pool lounges for my family w/a book, pair of sunglasses and flip-flop while sleeping in until almost noon. But that's a whole 'nother thread....

 

Consider yourself very lucky! Three different "attention getters" resulting in two cites and one warning:eek: You could have gone for reckless dressing and be made to peel potatoes in the pool wearing a diaper! ;)

[RevNeal]

I don't recall calling you or anyone else a snob, but you seem to be personalizing it all the same. I said don't be intimidated into the dress code, and for cruise critics (as a whole) to avoid snobbery. If you internalized this, what does that say???

 

You, specifically, perhaps not. But it HAS been applied directly, by several, on multiple occasions. If, however, you didn't intend it specifically toward anyone in particular, then I stand corrected.

 

As far as acceptance I accept your right to be whoever you are and everyone else to do as they feel is appropriate.. If the cruiseline doesn't feel someone is appropriate or appropriately dressed they will deal with it. Right?

 

Correct. I have either observed such, or listened to such as it goes on behind me, on several occasions. I have been witness to the Line upholding its dress code ... and not just in response to people dressed in cut-off jeans and tank-tops trying to get into the main dining room on Formal night, either. I have also witnessed HAL allow violations to slide. Even egregious violations (as in the above example).

 

We don't need you to be the cruise police do we? Or do we?

 

LOL! Nope ... not at all. I'm almost always too busy having a good time on a cruise to give one whit ... although I do, sometimes, notice what others are wearing when the deficiency is far outside the code. I don't DO anything about it, mind you, but I can't help but notice. And, of course, Christopher is a professional in the clothing industry and his commentary on what others are wearing can, at times, be most entertaining. :D

 

Or are you in someway connected to HAL in a way that isn't apparent?

 

No comment necessary for those who know. ;)

 

This will be my last post on the subject, and may you be enlightened.

 

Please don't be "run off." Hang around and post. Even if we don't agree, we often have a great deal of fun here. It's one of the ways we pass the time between cruises

[RevNeal]

A couple years back on the Westerdam I was pulled over in the casino and ticketed for a "cat-hat infraction (never mind the fact that I was wearing it backwards...I was let off on that one)." I was also given a warning because my cumber-bun has "no veal this meal" stitched in bright red thread on the front.

 

Where did you find such a cummerbund?? I'd like to order one. AND ... do you happen to know if they've got any other phrases stitched onto them??

 

I was sent to my cabin w/o any dinner.

 

You should have ordered room service! :D

 

Later in the week I was again ticketed for saving 4 pool lounges for my family w/a book, pair of sunglasses and flip-flop while sleeping in until almost noon. But that's a whole 'nother thread....

 

50 thousand lashes with a wet noodle!

;)

[RevNeal]

contrary to a few previous posts, I have always found the CC HAL members to be friendly and helpful. Reverend Neal, in particular, is a good source of experience, wisdom, and reason. He often tries to reach out and make peace with others who seem to have their own agendas. Since he has cruised with HAL many times I weigh his comments and opinions more than those of people who have never or rarely cruised HAL. Experience is the best teacher.

 

Thanks for the sunshine, Sunshine! :D But others have far more experience on HAL than I do. Still, I appreciate your kind words and hope to live up to them better than I sometimes have in the past.

[RevNeal]

We just took the April 5 cruise on the Noordam, and that was my original point, that the actual cruise was alot less formal than I had been lead to believe from the posters on CC. There were far fewer gowns, than I have seen on many other cruises. People looked dressed but no overly formal.

 

As has been said here, on countless occasions, each cruise -- each sailing -- is different. There's a different mix of people, a different feel, and a different dynamic, each and every time. I've been on back-to-back cruises where one week the vast preponderance of the passengers were dressed scrupulous accord to the code, but the very next week was decidedly NOT so scrupulous. In other words, just because one cruise is moderately formal doesn't mean that the cruise before it didn't have an overabundance of dress code "violations;" nor does it mean that a cruise which follows it won't be so formal that "white-tie-and-tails" more aptly describes the atmosphere. Anecdotal experiences are always hit-and-miss in terms of what they demonstrate about the fleet-wide average.

 

The passengers on the Oosterdam this January were only mildly formal; I observed quite a few people who didn't even make an attempt to abide by the dress code (and even few who got stopped at the doors to the dining room for the extremes to which they tried to push the matter), while the passengers on the Noordam's Maiden voyage in Feb/March tended to be VERY formal ... to the point of furs and hats on some of the ladies and jackets on many of the men on several casual nights.

 

I most objected to posters who said that even if you chose to eat at the Lido Cafe, you shouldn't go to any public spaces or show.

 

You do realize that such is not just the opinion of said posters but, rather, is what HAL requests of us in their dress code. Specifically: "In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening." In other words, your are faulting posters here for simply quoting to you what HAL, itself, asks of us.

 

We saw a few people that came in shorts to the show. They got some looks, but it was their vacation and I couldn't care less.

 

I have seen such as well. They generally stick out like a sore thumb. Frankly, I would be most uncomfortable being so conspicuous, but some people don't seem to care that they are making a spectacle of themselves, nor that they're flaunting their host's request. Have dressed down after dinner? Yes ... but almost never before midnight. If I get back to my cabin following the show and drinks and such and dont' feel like going to bed, I'll often change into walking clothes and go roam the promenade deck, the observation ("sports" on S and R ships) deck, and the empty lounges late after midnight. Sometimes you still run into people in formal attire, but my 2 am the ship is usually asleep (except for the cleaning staff, which can be seen everywhere at that hour).

[krewzin]

Where did you find such a cummerbund?? I'd like to order one. AND ... do you happen to know if they've got any other phrases stitched onto them??

 

Ah, well then you'd hafta order one from my lovely wife as she's done the 'custom' work for me! Rebel that I am...I have a 2nd one (a man cannot have too many cumber-buns) with "club sandwichs not seals."

 

"Where's the buffet" is our 3rd consideration, along with "May I save you a lounge chair?"

 

But alas, I have no more and I feel the market would not be strong enough for Ebay...

:D

[bepsf]

Kind of OT, but this reminds me of something we thought was hilarious - and of course inappropriate. We'll never forget it. We stayed in a Ritz-Carlton and there was a guy barefooted in his hotel bathrobe in the lobby. I'd have thought there was at least a minimum dress code, but apparently there wasn't. Or, maybe he was too wealthy for them to intimidate.

 

...or perhaps he was setting his room-service tray out in the hall, and the door closed behind him and he was locked out.

Sometimes things happen.