Star Princess: We know where but when do we know how it started?

[remydiva]

I was on the Star in the Western Caribbean the week prior to the fire cruise so have been following the progress of repairs thanks to Frank's fabulous pictures as well as other threads. The recent post with the MAIB report says WHERE the fire started and the immediate recommendations but when we will know exactly HOW it started?

 

I remember seeing a link a few weeks ago on one of these threads where the final report would be posted when it was finished but that page has disappeared. Can anyone re-post the link so we can bookmark for future reference?

 

I'm sailing on the Diamond in Sept so am most anxious to hear the final report and wonder if Princess will install foggers/sprinklers on the balconies of all its ships?

[Hello-Kitty]

They are not releasing any info on the start of the fire until Fall.

I beleive i read that in the Princess site.

I was on the same cruise w/ you!

[Globaliser]

I remember seeing a link a few weeks ago on one of these threads where the final report would be posted when it was finished but that page has disappeared. Can anyone re-post the link so we can bookmark for future reference?

The investigating authority has released a Safety Bulletin, which can be downloaded here (1.2 MB PDF file).

 

The MAIB's home page is here.

[Trevoli]

I doubt we'll ever know exactly what caused the fire.

 

The report says that they have identified the specific balcony where the fire started. If, by chance, it is determined that the fire was caused by a lit cigarette, that doesn't necessarily mean that a passenger was smoking ON THAT PARTICULAR BALCONY.

 

People who smoke on balconies are always throwing lit cigarettes away with the understanding (I guess) that the cigarette will fall straight down and land in the water. When the ship is moving, however, the cigarette usually gets caught in the wind and is blown onto somebody else's balcony. It's happened to me (I don't smoke, but have had cigarettes blow by me when standing on my balcony).

 

T

[WCAB]

I certainly hope they make the cause public. The assumption will always

be that it was caused by cigarette, unless Princess gives other information.

I do not think people always throw their cigarette off the balcony. To do so would mean you smoke and you are a bit stupid, most smokers know how fires are started and do what they can to avoid anything that might cause a fire. There are careless people everywhere so its probable that this has happened but I do not believe it is common.

 

Cruiser

[ssantow]

I certainly hope they make the cause public. The assumption will always

be that it was caused by cigarette, unless Princess gives other information.

I do not think people always throw their cigarette off the balcony. To do so would mean you smoke and you are a bit stupid, most smokers know how fires are started and do what they can to avoid anything that might cause a fire. There are careless people everywhere so its probable that this has happened but I do not believe it is common.

 

Cruiser

 

Perhaps you should spend the next three of four days reading the complete "Fire Technical Discussion" found elsewhere on this board. You will be enlightened and find that your assumption is the minority one. It is more accurate to say that is a possible cause not a probable cause.

Believe me you will need three or four days to completly digest that thread. It is huge and full of interesting facts by a lot of fire experts.

[negc]

I doubt we'll ever know exactly what caused the fire.

 

The report says that they have identified the specific balcony where the fire started. If, by chance, it is determined that the fire was caused by a lit cigarette, that doesn't necessarily mean that a passenger was smoking ON THAT PARTICULAR BALCONY.

 

People who smoke on balconies are always throwing lit cigarettes away with the understanding (I guess) that the cigarette will fall straight down and land in the water. When the ship is moving, however, the cigarette usually gets caught in the wind and is blown onto somebody else's balcony. It's happened to me (I don't smoke, but have had cigarettes blow by me when standing on my balcony).

 

T

 

We were just on the Sapphire Princess in a balcony cabin on Aloha deck. If someone were to throw a lit cigarette off of a balcony on Aloha or Baja decks, there would not need to be any wind for it to land on the uncovered balconies below since those balconies are uncovcered and extend out well beyond the Aloha and Baja balconies. Anything thrown off the upper balconies will fall straight down on those balconies even when there is no wind. Until we were on the Sapphire Princess, I had believed that it would require a wind to blow objects thrown off the upper decks of a ship back towards the ship and cause them to land on lower balconies. Now I realize I was mistaken and I better understand the posts of people who said that they were constantly picking up litter and debris from their balconies.

[spongerob]

As much as how, I'm curious about who started the fire, and if there were any civil or criminal charges that could be filed if an individual could in fact be identified. Or might this be a case that whoever might be involved would get off, because there is no legal jurisdiction at sea?

[custompcsys]

As much as how, I'm curious about who started the fire, and if there were any civil or criminal charges that could be filed if an individual could in fact be identified. Or might this be a case that whoever might be involved would get off, because there is no legal jurisdiction at sea?

Criminal I could understand, but not civil. Most individuals do not have sufficient assets to come even close to compensating the cruise line for their losses. Even if the individual has an umbrella liability policy, those normally are limited to a million dollars of liability coverage. The line's losses are 40 to 50 times that. It wouldn't be worth the legal fees or a corporate counsel's time for what they would recover.

[spongerob]

Interesting point. I carry $5 million in liability insurance because I occasionally transport clients in my personal vehicle - would that amount be worth the time? I included the civil penalty as a possibility because there isn't any information stating whether the fire was accidental or arson.

[Trevoli]

We were just on the Sapphire Princess in a balcony cabin on Aloha deck. If someone were to throw a lit cigarette off of a balcony on Aloha or Baja decks, there would not need to be any wind for it to land on the uncovered balconies below since those balconies are uncovcered and extend out well beyond the Aloha and Baja balconies. Anything thrown off the upper balconies will fall straight down on those balconies even when there is no wind. Until we were on the Sapphire Princess, I had believed that it would require a wind to blow objects thrown off the upper decks of a ship back towards the ship and cause them to land on lower balconies. Now I realize I was mistaken and I better understand the posts of people who said that they were constantly picking up litter and debris from their balconies.

 

That's disgusting. Who are these people? It would not occur to me to thrown ANYTHING off my balcony, under ANY circumstances.

 

I only mentioned the wind because the ship was moving when this tragedy occurred and there most certainly would have been some wind.

 

And I apologize for using the word 'always' when I said that passengers 'always throw lit cigarettes.....'. But it does happen frequently.

 

Hopefully, people will be more aware going forward and act more responsibly.

 

 

T

[Pam in CA]

When we were on the Grand, we had a Dolphin Deck mini-suite and were constantly picking up cigarette butts and trash from the balcony. It was disgusting.

[Cindy]

When we were on the Grand, we had a Dolphin Deck mini-suite and were constantly picking up cigarette butts and trash from the balcony. It was disgusting.

 

I guess the trash factor must vary greatly from sailing to sailing. We've had an open balcony on Dolphin for our last 2 cruises, and have never had any cigarettes or other trash wind up on our balcony.

[Hello-Kitty]

i have never seen any sorts of trash or cigarettes on any of my cruises, on my blacony or in public areas. I have never seen a dirty ship except on a spring break cruise it was a little messier.

I have never seen a careless smoker, they were always polite to me.:confused:

[Mrs. Gump]

Are ashtrays routinely placed on stateroom balconies for passengers to use?

[Trevoli]

That's a good question. Since I don't smoke, I have never noticed.

 

I doubt it, though. I think that would only encourage people to smoke.

 

T

[Mrs. Gump]

But, since smoking is supposedly allowed in cabins and on their balconies, it might help with the "butt's overboard" problem. Smokers are going to smoke with or without the encouragement of an ashtray. Maybe a heavy ashtray with sand, etc... in it to help extinguish the butt.

[cruizinwoman]

I do not think people always throw their cigarette off the balcony. To do so would mean you smoke and you are a bit stupid, most smokers know how fires are started and do what they can to avoid anything that might cause a fire. There are careless people everywhere so its probable that this has happened but I do not believe it is common.

 

Cruiser

 

I don't mean to insult an entire group of people (smokers), but I was surprised, SURPRISED at how many smokers would carelessly toss their cig butts out the window driving down the roads, highways, etc. during a time of significant drought here in Texas. I travel a state highway from town to the country twice daily and every single day, there were folks tossing their butts out. I stopped on more than one occassion to stomp out a fire caused by these folks. I know there are responsible people out there who use caution and BRAINS, but people never cease to amaze me! :eek:

[SomeBeach]

As a smoker, I will add that I am always amazed when someone throws a cigarette out a car window. I have admonished several for being so careless. Most do that because they don't want to use or no longer have an ashtray in their car.

It's a real shame how we treat our country as one big garbage can. And it's more than just smokers that do this.

That said, while I don't doubt some of you that say you are always picking up cigs on your balconies, I have never found one, let alone several. There is a difference in how a cig butt will look if it has been properly put out vs one that was tossed while still lit. Properly put out, the butt would be a little scrunched. A guess would be that most are put out but the ashtray is left outside where the wind will blow it around.

The only safe ashtray on a ship would be the one I take with me. It is a triangle shaped covered one, with the shape being better for it to hold its balance. I don't leave it on the balcony and I put it in my shower/tub when I leave the room.

[cruiseapril]

Since fire is such a disastrous event on a ship, why don't the cruise ships just have designated public smoking areas which can be double-checked by crew members?

 

This has nothing to do with the personal choice of smoking and individual rights, but with safety at sea. What does it take? A super disastrous event on a ship to change a policy which does not now work?

[remydiva]

I agree cruiseapril...remember when smoking was allowed on airplanes and they had a 'nonsmoking' and 'smoking' section...what a joke. The move to ban smoking on planes was met with much resistance and yet, it has happened and the world did not stop spinning.

 

Now going 9 hrs without a puff is one thing...going 9 days is another (note: I am NOT/never have been a smoker). So altho only 15% of the North american population are smokers, their needs and all of our comfort/safety has to be addressed and can't be swept under the rug (or tossed overboard). Other groups with 'needs' are accomodated eg. children, handicapped, diabetics. There has to be a way of handling this so that is a win-win situation.

 

Suggestions like cruiseapril's with a designated public room for smoking or safe, sandfilled ashtrays on balconies, designated cabins as smoking vs nonsmoking maybe (this could be hard but hotels do it) so that the ashtrays are made available (problem:inside cabins???). Maybe the installation of sprinklers on all the balconies on all ships such as has been done on the Star is the way to go. But again, what about the inside cabins?

 

I believe Oceania has banned smoking on its ships but I can't see this as a realistic solution for all cruise lines. It's a balancing act: rights vs safety.

 

oops..I see our friends on the Carnival forum are debating this issue as well:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=345048

[Tania]

On our recent Grand transatlantic, the room steward began removing the pads off the chairs for the night, citing that this was how the fire on the Star began.... sounds logical enough to me... we were in a fully open mini...