2006 Maasdam - Voyage of the Vikings A 35 day journal

[JYGresham]

Hi Esther,

 

CSI is a travel group that we have booked many trips with. They have many good perks, such as complimentary tours, cocktail parties, and many gifts. If you need more info, post your e-mail address, and we will send you all we know.

 

Bill & Mary Ann

I too am interested in learning more about your CSI agency and would appreciate your sending me the same info as Esther. My email address is JYGresham@aol.com. We are booked on this same cruise next year through another agency whichwe have frequently used but it never hurts to learn about another.

[WCB]

Hi Copper10-8,

 

From talking to passengers that had done previous sailings in this area, we figured that we got lucky with the weather. We had more calm seas most of the trip, and the temperatures went from cold to a heat wave in Paris!

We had to pack for both possibilities, as you will read with the next 21 reports.

 

Bill & Mary Ann

[Broon]

While on the same cruise on the MAASDAM in '05, for our day stop in Bergen, we had prepared to visit one of the rainiest cities in Norway. However, fortune was with us and we had a beautiful, warm sunny day. Oslo, reputed to be one of the sunniest, was the opposite. It POURED all day. For anyone interested, at wunderground.com (a weather site) it is possible to type the name of most cities anywhere and do a search on that city's weather history. It helped us when deciding what to pack for the North Atlantic crossing.

 

Keep these reports coming from the MAASDAM's 06 crossing....they're great!

 

Harvey

[RuthC]

Harvey, you are so right! That day in Oslo was awful. I don't know what you were doing that day, but I was on the schooner sail of the fjord. There were lots of tables and chairs set up on the decks, and everyone was squished inside to get out of the rain.

Couldn't see a thing, either. Then we had to walk back along the pier in all that water.

What a great memory.

WCB, keep 'em comin' cause I'm lovin' it. :)

[WCB]

Howdy,

 

When we woke up this morning,a strange beam of light was shining through our curtains. Lo and behold, it was the sun!! Looks like we are going to have a dry and warm day.

 

We booked an 8:15 tour today that will takeus up to Lysefjord for site-seeing. After getting our tour stickers in the lounge, we headed outside, walked right in front of the Maasdam, and loaded onto a 130 passenger boat. The seats on the inside deck looked like those on an airplane.Wanting to get the best pictures, we climbed up the steps to the open deck. The wind was nippy, so we found a sheltered spot near the navigation room. Still cold, but tolerable.

 

We cruised past dozens of small islands dotted with summer homes. In a lot of places in the water, we spotted colored buoys attached to sunken cages. It turned out they were mussel traps. Further into the first fjord, Hogsfjorden, we saw more circular covered cages. The guide told us they were salmon farms. These structures were made with nets that went to depths of 40 feet, with the salmon living inside the nets.

 

Just as the boat turned into the start of Lysefjord, we passed under a new bridge that had been built in 1997. The bridge enabled the natives to get to the mainland by car as well as by boat. The guide mentioned that the depths of Lysefjord measure 1500 feet in spots and the mountain cliffs are just as high. It is mind boggling to realize that glacial ice as thick as 6000 feet was responsible for carving these canyons 10,000 years ago.

 

As we inched along, the boat swung into a narrow cavern with huge boulders stuck halfway between the crevices of the steep cliff. Our guide said that in medieval times, men would be lowered on the boulders until they agreed to pay their taxes!! No late filing taxes in this neck of the woods.

 

Our first stop was at a place called Helleren, a big outdoor open-air restaurant, hidden in the trees in the heart of the fjord. Norwegian waffles were served with sweetened sour cream and tart strawberry jam. Yum! The hot coffee was most appreciated, since our tour was quite chilly.

 

We reboarded the boat, and sailed up to glacial waterfalls. The boat got so close to the falls, that we could have reached out and touched the granite boulders. The guide actually collected a bucket of water for us to drink.

 

The highlite of this tour was seeing Pulpit Rock, a peculiar granite formation jutting out of the top of a 1500 foot cliff. It was naturally square- cut, with a flat top, and we heard that about 2600 daredevils parachute off the edge every year. Unfortunately, not all of them do it successfully, and some have died. It was difficult to gauge the size of the formation, which is sandwiched between impressive cliffs. Bill did spot some people on the top, and they looked like the size of ants!! We could see no railings up there either.

 

The guide was glassing the shorelines for sea lions that live in this fjord. Their colony only has about 200 animals, so sightings are rare. We did see a few stick their heads up briefly to check up out, but quickly disappeared. Maybe they were shy. On a small patch of green grass near the water, we saw three goats, who came running to the boat for a treat of bread given by the crew. A few ladies had squirreled away some buns from the Lido, and tried to throw them to the goats. But they fell short, and seagulls scooped them up in a hurry.

 

The boat headed back to Stavanger very slowly, giving us a chance to film sod-roofed houses,cabins, boat docks, orchards, and sailboats. We got back to the Maasdam by noon, then went for a 2 hour walk through the city's cobblestoned streets.

 

Old Stavanger has more than 150 old wooden houses that were built in the 17th and 18th centuries. Most of them are occupied by shopkeepers now, but retain their old character. They were painted every color of the rainbow, making a good photo op. Hanging flower baskets and gas street lamps lined the narrow lanes. There was a musical group from Russia entertaining the tourists and locals in the main square.

 

A few interesting facts about Stavanger are, its population is 111,007, and their main industry is off-shore oil drilling, replacing the fishing and cannery industry of the past. Again, the prices were high. For example, a 16 0z. bottle of soda cost over $4.00, and a bag of potato chip was $5.00. Yearly salaries can start at $40 to $60 thousand, with a 40% tax. Most households had 2 people working.

 

Sailaway was at 6pm, and the ship made its way up the Lysefjord the view the Pulpit Rock. When we approached the new bridge, we had doubts that the ship would clear it. There was maybe 10 feet to spare! It was beautiful to see the views from the ship, but we were glad to have done the small boat for an "up close and personal" tour. Still, we stood on the top deck forward for 2 hours enjoying the sights again.

 

Tonite, the ship had a BBQ in the closed-in pool area, but our table, except for one, went to the dining room. Dress code tonight was informal, so wearing a sportcoat to a BBQ was not a good idea.

 

Tomorrow, Kristiansand, Norway.

 

Mary Ann & Bill

[RuthC]

When I took the Lysefjord tour it was raining, but not so hard that it would stop a few of us from going outside every once in a while.

Those pancakes were yummy. :)

 

By the time the Rotterdam sailed up the fjord that evening the rain had stopped. I so agree with you---what a difference seeing it from that small boat and the large ship!

[Broon]

Last year at Stavanger, the first time there for either of us, we marvelled at the ancient cathedral, the 150 old houses that you saw too, and I went to the oil drilling museum...quite a place. Basically, we went on our own walking tour around town. Prices? YIKES! For a roll of mints, the equivalent of US$3. At home, for less than that, we can buy 4 rolls.

 

There was an international food fair in Stavanger that day and it was interesting to watch the crowds of people gather as the day went on. Many, many sights and sounds and smells. Many small boats came into the harbour and docked in front of the MAASDAM...which was alongside the 150 old houses. The small boats were tied one to the other. There wasn't enough pier space. No problem...all these boats, and the boaters, made for an even greater party atmosphere both on the water and all around the harbour perimeter, where the fair was.

 

By sailaway, there was some Norwegian beer on board and I had one, paid for at ship's prices, not the local Norwegian price, which was many $ higher.

 

That evening, we stayed away from the dining room and went to the Lido for dinner, at a table right up against the glass, from where we could get a much better view of the journey through the fjord. What a good decision on our part. The scenery on the way to Pulpit Rock is spectacular. And then the area underneath the rock...we were told that it is 2000 feet from the water surface to the top of the rock. Quite a site.

 

Slowly the ship turned around in the fjord and we made our way out to open water. A great end to a great day.

[airlink diva]

I really enjoy reading the onboard logs from HAL cruisers on the longer trips. Each time that HAL sends a brochure with the longer cruises I wish I could take them.

Unless I win the powerball or if my only rather rich aunt favors me, I can only dream!

But thank you so much!!

[WCB]

Greetings to all,

 

We arrived very early to the port of Kristiansand, Norway, a small city of less than 70,000 people. Because this city lies close to Denmark, it is a main ferry port connecting the two countries.

 

Today we are on a tour that will take us away from Kristiansand, to the town called the jewel of Sorlandet, Lillesand. We boarded a bus, and had a scenic one-half hour drive through the green countryside. Lillesand has many old traditional mariner's houses and holiday homes. About 3,000 lucky residents live here year round, but the city swells to 8,200 in the summertime. Many white-washed cottages, built in the 17th and 18th centuries, line the hillsides. We walked the main street along the sheltered harbor, while we waited for the boat to arrive. Being that today is Saturday, the streets were full of families, old and young, buying fresh produce at the outside stands. We also saw the church and the townhouse, as well as several shops with all their summerwear on sale. Hmm, just like home!

 

Then we lined up to board the tour boat. We had to laugh when we noticed some people prying their way to the front of the line, even though there would be plenty of room on the boat. Come to think of it, these are the same people that have to be first in the Lido, the dining room, the showlounge, and first to go ashore! Every ship has this group, no matter where you travel! Sound familiar??

 

Anyway, we boarded the boat, and made our way to the top deck. The weather today was perfect.....clear and sunny and in the high 70's. It is no wonder that Norwegians flock to this area for vacation.

 

All the little islands had either cabins, comfortable homes, or landscaped mansions. Our guide said the prices range from 500,000KR to 5 millionKR (about 7 Kroner to the dollar). During the 2 1/2 hour scenic cruise, we literally saw hundreds of boats of all sizes. Just about everyone speeding by waved a welcome to us. Everyone must have a boat here, since that is the only access from the islands to the mainland. Sure looks like a fun place to stay.

 

We got back to Kristiansand by 1:30, and walked to the main square called Posebyen. The central point of the square was Domkirke, the main old church built hundreds of years ago. Surrounding the church were parks with fountains, flower beds, and statues. Many Norwegians were sitting on the park benches, enjoying ice cream, their favorite treat here. A produce and flower market stretched along the cobblestone street. We did find an avenue of stores, including McDonalds. There were many restaurants, pubs, and boutiques, but nothing resembling tourist stores.We spotted an unusual table with Kenya articles, but they wanted to tack on a 17% surcharge, so we passed. Probably, not many cruise ships stop in this port. Speaking of McDonalds, the dining room captain told us his friend bought lunch there, and it cost him $17.00!!

 

The ship left at 5 pm, and the sailaway was quite pleasant to watch from the aft pool deck.

 

Tomorrow..........the last Norway port, Oslo.

 

Until then,

 

Bill & Mary Ann

[RuthC]

You're starting to remind me of me. Thirty-five days at sea isn't enough, so you also have to take shore excursions that are on water!

I did this same tour last year. Difference on mine was that it was a rough ride. Enjoyable for me, but we did have to hang on when standing.

I think you'll be finishing your journal just about the time I'm leaving for my next cruise. Good timing because I really want to read it all.

(ps, I leave on 10/6 if it makes a difference in your posting schedule. hint, hint. wink, wink.)

[Broon]

Last year, in '05, during the stop in Kristiansand, I was very keen to go on the steam train excursion and was glad I did. Got to see a lot of the countryside during the bus trip there and back (different routes) and had a great train ride as well. Don't stick your head out the window, or you'll get a face full of soot.

 

Afterward, my wife and I got together for our own walking tour of the downtown area of K'sand, including the main church and other places as described below by Bill & Mary Ann.

 

As we were to disembark in Rotterdam, at this point last year, we were getting ourselves ready for just one more port stop in Oslo before leaving behind this fabulous journey that we had been on.

 

Harvey

[WCB]

Hi RuthC,

 

The reports should be finished just in time for your trip that begins on October 6th!

 

We are debating whether to post daily reports on the 07 World Cruise, or wait until we are home in May. Sometimes internet service is spotty on the ship.

 

Bill & Mary Ann

[Grumpy1]

We haven't been checking the boards for the last month and just found this thread. Glad to see you guys posting. It sounds like it was a really good cruise.

 

We are debating whether to post daily reports on the 07 World Cruise, or wait until we are home in May. Sometimes internet service is spotty on the ship

 

I vote for daily... or close to daily... reports.

[RuthC]

I vote for daily... or close to daily... reports.

Is this open to a vote? I didn't understand that. :) In that case I agree with Grumpy. It's lots of fun to feel like I'm taking the cruise with you at the same time!

I have found that when I post from on board I get more out of the cruise myself. I pay more attention to things as I know I will need to be able to answer questions. I tend to remember more when I post, too.

Whatever you decide, your reports of the cruise are appreciated.

[WCB]

Hello to all,

 

Our port of call today was Oslo, the capital of Norway, with a sprawling population of 500,000 people. The city is famous for its sculptor park,Vigeland, numerous museums, including the Kon Tiki boat display, palaces and castles. But its most renowned sight is the Norwegian Nobel Institute, where their commitee takes on the task of awarding the Nobel Peace Prize every year.

 

We were blessed with a beautiful, warm day, despite the early morning layer of fog. Having visited this city twice before, we chose a cruise of the Oslofjord on a restored sailing schooner built in the 1800's. Even under engine power, (no sails used), it was neat to experience what it must have been like to cross the oceans on such a small vessel. The highlights of the fjord were narrated by a history/language teacher, who gave us detailed information on centuries-old sights. We saw ancient lighthouses, monastery ruins, and more summer cottages, similar to Lillesand's. On the shoreline, we spotted many sunbathers laying on the smooth boulders or on the small beaches. High up in the nearby mountain slopes, we could see the Holmenkollen Ski Jump, used by the most experienced Norwegians skiiers. Our guide said that most children get their first cross-country skis at 2 years old, and are experts by 5 years old! The oldest known skiier in Oslo is 97 years old!!

 

Midway during the slow sailing, we had a buffet of small shrimp, bread, butter, and our choice of coffee, water, beer or wine. Even though it was 10:30 in the morning, the shrimp and the local beer, Ringnes, tasted really good. The shrimp was not cleaned, and it was a little hard looking at their eyes while you clean them. And something we haven't seen before, was the fact that they were full of tiny eggs. Caviar!

 

We learned from the guide that Oslo's past was quite violent with attacks from Denmark, and devastation from Bubonic Plague, cholera, and tuberculosis. Fire destroyed so much of the old city, that most buildings are under 100 years old.

 

Getting back to the pier at 12:30, we had time to walk the city's waterfront. We saw the Akerhus Fortress near the ship, the main plaza outside the Nobel Institute Building, and several fountains and statues. Parents let their youngest children play in the fountains totally nude. Here and there, were musicians playing for coins, and even one organ grinder with a stuffed monkey.

 

We strolled the Aker Brygge, the pierside promenade. It housed rows of nice restaurants, with small hotdog and ice cream stands in between. However, since it was Sunday, most all the stores were closed. Good for the wallet, though! There was a convenient souvenier store right next to the pier by the ship. We remembered buying our Dale of Norway sweaters here in 1996 and 1999. Glad we did, since today's prices were way higher than then. One nice thing here, is the desk where you can get the value added tax refunded back to you. At 17% VAT, it can add up to big bucks quickly.

 

The Maasdam sailed out of Oslo, through the fjord, and out to the North Sea. And sailing was smooth as glass, as we watched from the pool deck and later, the Crow's Nest.

 

We had a meeting with another nice couple from last year's world cruise and the guest relations manager regarding a get-together of all 2005 world cruisers. When asked for a meeting place and date, it was denied by the ship's cruise director, saying it had to be cleared by the bosses in Seattle. Well, guess we were asking the wrong person, since it was a piece of cake to get an OK by the guest relations girl, Mylene. It was posted in tomorrow's newsletter to be held in the Crow's Nest at 9am. Hope the rest of the group will read it in time.

 

Dinner tonight was formal and the farewell to 300 guests, who will be leaving in 2 days. The typical dinner of lobster and filet mignon, and other equally good entrees, was followed by the parade of baked Alaska, with sparklers on top. The waiters obviously enjoyed doing this, especially when their tables cheered them on. To add to the fun, we celebrated a tablemate's birthday with a large cake with candles. Jordan, who turned 36, was quite pleased. His mom, Perry, treated us all to champagne and wine. Another nice couple, Margaret and Keith, brought a bottle of champagne from their room. However, the wine steward would not serve it without charging a $15. corkage fee. The head sommlier was summoned to our table to also deny the serving. But he relented when we all objected. Sometimes they don't handle these situations well. Anyway, after all that, we decided we had had enough champagne, and Keith took his bottle back to his room.

 

There is a chocolate buffet tonight, but I think we will pass. Looking forward to a quiet day at sea tomorrow,

 

Bill & Mary Ann

[WCB]

Hi Jerry and Wilda and Ruth C,

 

OK, we will try to post every day or so, depending on the service speed. We normally send these reports to friends and family anyway.

 

Grumpy,

 

Enjoyed reading your reports on the Roman Empire!! You gave it your "special touch"!!

 

Bill & Mary Ann

[CoconutFish]

Again, thank you for this informative log of your cruise!

 

It is good to hear about the mild weather: we would love to get out of "warm weather" cruising areas and have some cool/cold weather, even with rain!

 

Very glad to hear that Mylene is still on HAL. You were lucky to have her as Guest Relations Manager. She is the best Guest Relations Manager we have ever had, with the right personality for the job. I am not surprised that she was so helpful.

 

I, too, would vote for daily or mostly daily reports from your 2007 World Cruise. Anything you are able to work into your schedule on board would be greatly appreciated and highly anticipated!

[WCB]

Hi Gang,

 

After a smooth night of sailing, we woke up to another sunny morning. At 9am, we met with 20 other 2005 World Cruisers in the Crow's Nest. Even though we may not have formally met last year, we all seemed to recognize each other. A few passengers had been part of the Cruises Specialist group, some of us had taken tours together, and many we met while taking our walks around the promenade deck.

 

Anyway, Cindy, the nurse from 2005, joined our group, and gave us updates on some of last year's staff. Some of the crew had gone to Celebrity, including Sherry and Randall Powell. Captain Gunderson and most of his staff remained on the Prinsendam, while a few favorites will transfer to the 2007 World Cruise. They include Stephane, the maitre'd and Fekko Ebbens, hotel manager. While keeping in touch with a friend from last year who also sailed this year, we found out that many staff members were being trained to serve on the Amsterdam.

 

Several lecturers have come and gone on this trip since we left on July 1st. We usually don't attend them if the weather is nice outside. Showlounges are like buses....for some reason , once they are full of people, everyone starts nodding off!! Very embarrassing! So if they lectures are good, we can watch them on TV later at night. Our tablemates usually grade the talks at dinnertime, so we know which ones to watch.

 

There have been many jewelry seminars, and sometimes they can be quite imformative, if one is in the market for that. The best aspect of buying loose stones, for instance, is that they are totally duty-free. However, if the gems are set in a necklace, bracelet, or ring, you must declare them on your custom's declaration. A word to the wise..........always do your homework before leaving home. Sometimes better purchases can be made in other countries, or better yet, at home.

 

Dinner tonight was in the Pinnacle Grill - table for two. Starter choices for us were crab cakes and beefsteak tomato salad, followed by the best grilled steaks we have had since last year world cruise. They were seasoned with a salt rub, and cooked perfectly. Along with the steaks, we had delicious mushrooms, fully loaded baked potatoes, and creamy spinach. We had a slight bit of room for lemon angel cake with berries, and a flaming small baked Alaska with Ben and Jerry's cherry ice cream. Yum. We will have to walk at least 20 miles tomorrow in Rotterdam to work off this meal!! In comparing the dining service to last year, we found it lacking. The waiters seemed to be stressed, even though the small restaurant was not full. However, we happened to be seated next to an officer and his girlfriend, and they received the extra touches, maybe way overboard, in our opinion. But the price was right for us, since the dinner was complimentary from CSI. It does costs $20. per person to dine here, but it was worth it!!

 

Until tomorrow,

 

Mary Ann & Bill

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Hi Mary Ann and Bill:

 

I'm still along for the ride, and still enjoying myself immensely. There is so much "brouhaha" taking place on other threads right now on the HAL board, that it is a relief to follow a thread which reminds us why we all decided to go cruising in the first place...:) I'm not sure which one of you is doing the writing, or perhaps both of you are, but your observations and descriptions are excellent!

 

Karin

[WCB]

Hi Karin,

 

Thanks for the compliment! It has been a very positive experience posting these reports on CC!!

 

We both contribute to the report contents, but Mary Ann does the typing.

 

Bill

[cool change]

Thank you for your report. I am now printing this whole thread as its easier to read. This is a cruise I would love to do but might have to wait until there is enough time/money to pull it off. Gotta dream..

[WCB]

Hello,again,

 

During the very early morning hours, we sailed into the Rotte River from the North Sea to the world's largest port, Rotterdam. The city is a mix of old and new, since it was heavily damaged during World War 2. About 600,000 friendly people live here.

 

We went on a tour with our CSI group, about 42 of us, and our host, Nancy Wright. Today 300 passengers left the ship, and we gained another 300 back. Despite the disembarkation, we were allowed to leave the ship to take the scenic bus ride to the tour boat. On the way, we saw the modern Erasmus Bridge, many unusual apartment buildings, and more outrageous extreme-designed highrises. The architects are quite modernistic here, boardering bizarre. We could see other bridges, most still operational, and others preserved for viewing, but not used anymore.

 

The traffic was heavy, but it seemed to be more complicated with long stop lights. There is even special bike lanes, separated from the road by curbs, and having their own stop lights. Great idea.

 

A short distance across the harbor from the Maasdam, we boarded the large sight-seeing boat, and again made our way to the top deck. It was remarkably hot today, around 95 degrees. Our guide mentioned that Rotterdam had been in the middle of a "heat stroke", or like we would say a heat wave. Sure beats the rain, which they get a lot of here too. From the boat, we passed old narrow row houses, with ornate brickwork. In the distance we could see steeples of churches, a tall tower with a revolving restaurant, and one old windmill.In the olden days, the windmills were used to power the pumps that drained the marshlands. They were actually still in use until the 1950's. Alongside the bank, we saw a replica of a wooden ship being constructed the old way with the old tools used centuries ago. It was started in 1999, and had a long way to go to completion.

 

Many cargoships, barges containing gravel and coal, ferries, and small pleasure boats passed by us. Since oil is the biggest employer in Rotterdam, refineries lined the banks. And despite the availability of the refined oil, their gas prices were still 1.50 Euro to the liter, computing to $6.00 a gallon US. And that was their lowest price. No bargain here. And maybe that is why we saw so many bicycles on the streets. Rotterdam is an excellent city to cycle, since it is so flat. Most of Holland is under sea level, and because of this, they have massive flood control facilities. It's not just the little Dutch boy with his finger in the dyke!!

 

The boat turned around at the massive loading docks, and slowly headed back. Several dry docks are in the harbor as well. We saw many green parks with small beaches, people eating a leisurely lunch on benches, and kids swimming in the river. Some interesting restaurants were on the water's edge, such as the Chinese Pavilion, that resembled the Jumbo Floating Restaurant in Hong Kong.

 

Closer to the Maasdam, we saw the original Holland America Line building, that has been turned into the New York Hotel.

 

After the harbor tour, we drove to the downtown area to the Engels Restaurant, right next to Central Station. Here we had a buffet lunch that included lunchmeats, cheeses, fried herring, tender beef chunks, meatballs, chicken wings, and a yummy vegetable lasagne. Salads were marinated cucumbers, coleslaw, and potato salads. Wheat rolls and fresh French bread complimented the meal, as well as juice, milk, or ice water. But the best part of the meal, was the chocolate and strawberry mousse. It melted in our mouths. The restaurant was crowded since several groups of kids were there with chaperones, also eating lunch. It is common to see groups of kids on a three week field trip, touring Europe in the summertime.

 

We finished lunch by 1:30, and made our way back to the ship. It would have been nice to see more of the downtown area, but time was limited, and we had to be back to the ship for another life boat drill. Oh what fun. There were a few stands of souveniers set up in the pier building, and again they were accepting US dollars as well as Euros.

 

The ship pulled away from the pier with a 50 man chorus group and band serenading us with Dutch songs. They gave a robust performance dressed in their native costumes and wooden shoes. Sure was a nice send-off.

 

As we sailed out the river to the sea, two fireboats shot plumes of water into the skys around the ship. The mist actually created multi- rainbows. It was apparent that Rotterdam is the home base for Hooland America ships!

 

Tomorrow...............Paris, France...............Ooooo la-la!!

 

Bill & Mary Ann

[RuthC]

Another report that brought back memories---I, too, did a tour on the river.

Speaking of the river.... You posted it as the Rotte; I remember it as the Maas. One of us is wrong, and it certainly makes sense that it would be the Rotte.

Can anyone confirm the river that Rotterdam is on?

[BernardNL]

The answer is the Maas.

[RuthC]

Thanks, Bernard. I started wondering after I asked about it if there could possibly be two rivers---one branching off from the other, or some such thing.

I'm glad to know that my memory isn't totally failing yet.