Attn. Zuiderdam - St Thomas 11pm Port Time - Cruisers

[thebird]

Me and my wife are doing this itenerary Aug 28, We have not recieved anything regarding this, we recieved our cruise papers last week and the itenerary is the same as when we booked, If this is true i will be very upset

I guess if enough people complain they might change it back. I hope they do I was looking forward to the long stay in St. Thomas!!!

 

 

ROFLMAO!!!

 

umm....

[superstein61]

Ok according to Florida Lady's e-mail , we're back to where we started...:confused:

 

 

 

What a Mickey Mouse company..

Srpilo

 

Florida Lady - Please contact HAL's Customer Relations dept and see what they tell you. It seems some of these departments must not talk to one another. The email I rec'd was from Customer relations - who sent it on their own because a week earlier in response to my question, they told me there would be no change.

[mattR]

Was also looking forward to the extra long day in St. Thomas. One ship in port vrs 5 is a nice change though. Any ideas how many ships in Tortola on Tuesdays now?

[MandyGirl]

I don't know about Tortola - does anyone know if they post their "ships in port" schedule online?

 

This is the one for St Thomas: http://www.*****/general_usvi/getting_here/usvi_cruise_ship.php

However, it is only updated at the end of each month for the following month.

[MandyGirl]

Out of personal curiousity, I utilized Travelocity and Orbitz to research my particular sailing week of the Zuiderdam (Nov 20) to see how many ships are showing various itineraries involving St Thomas and Tortola... just to see if I could get a ballpark of how many would be in those two ports Thanksgiving week. (Maybe that is the reason HAL could be switching ports but they just won't say it?????)

Schedule on hollandamerica.com (the one we booked, and it is currently showing this now):

Nov 20 - embarkation day

Nov 21 - HMC

Nov 22 - sea

Nov 23 (Tues) - St Thomas

Nov 24 - Tortola

Nov 25 - sea

Nov 26 - Nassau

Nov 27 - disembark FLL

I focused my research on specifically St Thomas and Tortola during that timeframe.

Showing on Orbitz/Travelocity for Tuesday 11/23 St Thomas:

Zuiderdam (original schedule)

RCCL Navigator

Caribbean Princess

Carnival Triumph

Showing on Orbitz/Travelocity for Wednesday 11/24 Tortola:

Zuiderdam (original schedule)

HAL Veendam

 

 

But in looking further, just in case the ports are indeed switched...

Showing on Orbitz/Travelocity for Tuesday 11/23 Tortola:

No other ships are showing for Tortola this day

(this is the possible new date for Zuiderdam Tortola according to one dept at HAL)

Showing on Orbitz/Travelocity for Wednesday 11/24 St Thomas:

possible Zuiderdam day

RCCL Radiance of Seas

 

Costa Atlantica

 

Of course this is assuming I didn't make an error, which is totally possible.

If this is correct, then we are going from four ships in port at STT down to three ships in STT on Wednesday, which is probably a lot less if looking at number of berths on each ship. And then also going from two ships at Tortola down to just one ship if switched.

What gets me is this...

if this change is truly happening and ports are swapping for Zuiderdam the remainder of the year, why doesn't HAL just say "hey, to benefit the passengers, we are switching ports so that you will have xxxx less passengers in port and can be less crowded when ashore" ? :confused: By just swapping ports and not even telling passengers "why"... that certainly creates a lot of questions, unhappiness, and mistrust towards HAL.

So that's my thinking... ports are being swapped to have less passengers in port. We knew from recent Zuiderdam cruisers that it made less ships in port for them, so I was curious how different the Fall cruise schedule in that area would look from the current summer Caribbean schedule.

[joand452]

Hi Viennacruizer! Couldn't help but notice that you're in Virginia--I live in Fairfax. Over on the Royal Caribbean board, there's a lively bunch of Virginia (and MD and DC) cruisers. The thread is labelled "Island Cruisers of VA." Come join us!

 

BTW, on our April cruise, we were told about the switch after we had boarded. The excuse they gave was that there would be too many ships in St. Thomas on Tuesday, and we'd have to tender in. It didn't matter to us as we had never been, so... But I definitely know we wouldn't miss never going to Tortola again ;-)

[ekerr19]

Out of personal curiousity, I utilized Travelocity and Orbitz to research my particular sailing week of the Zuiderdam (Nov 20) to see how many ships are showing various itineraries involving St Thomas and Tortola... just to see if I could get a ballpark of how many would be in those two ports Thanksgiving week. (Maybe that is the reason HAL could be switching ports but they just won't say it?????)

Schedule on hollandamerica.com (the one we booked, and it is currently showing this now):

Nov 20 - embarkation day

Nov 21 - HMC

Nov 22 - sea

Nov 23 (Tues) - St Thomas

Nov 24 - Tortola

Nov 25 - sea

Nov 26 - Nassau

Nov 27 - disembark FLL

I focused my research on specifically St Thomas and Tortola during that timeframe.

Showing on Orbitz/Travelocity for Tuesday 11/23 St Thomas:

Zuiderdam (original schedule)

RCCL Navigator

Caribbean Princess

Carnival Triumph

Showing on Orbitz/Travelocity for Wednesday 11/24 Tortola:

Zuiderdam (original schedule)

HAL Veendam

 

 

But in looking further, just in case the ports are indeed switched...

Showing on Orbitz/Travelocity for Tuesday 11/23 Tortola:

No other ships are showing for Tortola this day

(this is the possible new date for Zuiderdam Tortola according to one dept at HAL)

Showing on Orbitz/Travelocity for Wednesday 11/24 St Thomas:

possible Zuiderdam day

RCCL Radiance of Seas

 

Costa Atlantica

 

Of course this is assuming I didn't make an error, which is totally possible.

If this is correct, then we are going from four ships in port at STT down to three ships in STT on Wednesday, which is probably a lot less if looking at number of berths on each ship. And then also going from two ships at Tortola down to just one ship if switched.

What gets me is this...

if this change is truly happening and ports are swapping for Zuiderdam the remainder of the year, why doesn't HAL just say "hey, to benefit the passengers, we are switching ports so that you will have xxxx less passengers in port and can be less crowded when ashore" ? :confused: By just swapping ports and not even telling passengers "why"... that certainly creates a lot of questions, unhappiness, and mistrust towards HAL.

So that's my thinking... ports are being swapped to have less passengers in port. We knew from recent Zuiderdam cruisers that it made less ships in port for them, so I was curious how different the Fall cruise schedule in that area would look from the current summer Caribbean schedule.

 

Mandygirl-

 

It looks like that took quite a bit of research on your part! Keeping in mind not all travel websites show all cruises, it seems like there might be more in St. Thomas, especially when it's a holiday cruise. We've yet to cruise to St. T (recently) when there were less than 5-6 ships in port. If you want to know for sure - you may want to check the individual websites for Princess, Celebrity, Carnival, HAL, etc.

 

Also, the travel sites may not be showing sold out cruises... just a thought - I know the work involved - we often do this and have had the best luck researching the cruiseline websites.

 

We are ALWAYS interested to know which ships will be at HMC the same time we are - the times and size ship give us an idea what to expect.

 

PS- I've read really negative things on these boards about Tortola, which is a shame, IMO - we love that island!

[MandyGirl]

ekerr -

 

Fortunately it only took me about 30 minutes to search, especially using ctrl+f to find "thomas" in the ports listed, click on it, look at the itinerary in detail, and then type the name on a spreadsheet if it had STT or Tortola on Tues or Wed. Yes, I realized that some may not show up, which is why I did it on both websites as a cross-check. Orbitz will usually show the cruises even if sold out, but both showed the major lines fairly well (I think my search result showed 114 Caribbean cruises, but I was only looking at two specific days - I found several to visit St Thomas that week, but not on Tues/Wed). It was good to see Costa listed - I don't believe they show up with Travelocity. However, I think I captured the major ships (didn't search Windjammer, but those are very small), and I also searched "all Caribbean" for all lengths beginning slightly before our saildate since Eastern and Southern usually visit that area. You'd have a 14-day ultimate Caribbean here and there. It may not be "the full picture" but it gives a good ballpark idea. :)

We have vacationed on St John during Thanksgiving week (2002), and I think the most that were ever in port then were five ships - some days had one or two. We determined when we would visit Trunk Bay that week based on the day there were the least number of ships scheduled to be in port (but then I used St Thomas' cruise ship schedule since it was within that month).

Half Moon Cay... oooohh... can't wait! We love that stop! Definitely hope for only one ship there!

We're looking forward to visiting Tortola, but mainly to board a catamaran for a day sail to smaller BVI. We've done a daysail to Jost Van Dyke, so this time we will visit others. We figured that when staying in the USVI, we can easily catch a ferry to Tortola, but can't get to the smaller islands quite as easily, so we'll visit those this time and save Tortola for later. However, doing that search, I rarely saw Tortola listed as a port of call.

[ekerr19]

Doesn't seem likes its going to be very crowded while you're there - that will be nice. Our last cruise (April 2004) we didn't get off the ship in STT because of the number of ships in port - also because of the construction. We docked at the Navy (or is Coast Guard?) pier - an $8-$10 taxi ride into town.

 

We enjoyed an almost empty ship and great weather, so it was a plus for us.

[srpilo]

Ok..

 

I think some people think the HAL may have our best interest in mind about switching the days, but that still leaves three big questions in my mind..

 

1 . Surely HAL (Carnival Corp) knew the port schedule in advance of their own ships, because it appears the crowding problem stems from weekly calls by various Carnival and Princess ships on Tuesdays, which, by the way, NEVER give up THEIR pier position for a HAL ship.. So good ole Zuiderdam customers eat the bullet over Carnival and Princess customers, and give up their pier spot and our 11pm depature time every week .. Is that fair?

 

2 . Why the subtrefuge on HAL's part.. Why the layers and layers of lies and half truths to its customers.. If indeed their making the switch is for "OUR OWN BENIFIT" (umm?) ,after we've booked it under the old itinerary, why not simply just tell us the truth in advance, so we can at least ajust our plans accordingly ? One poster just mentioned his cruise was switched last April .. So HAL's been thinking about, or doing this switch for atleast 4 months ... geeezz ??

 

3 . If indeed this over crowding can't or WON"T be rectifided by Carnival Corp to the benifit of HAL customers and to the original advertisted itinerary, the ethical and honest thing to do, would be to atleast change the posted itinerary to show the revised days and times, so that new unsuspecting customers aren't lured in with the false and misleading itinerary (as I was), only to "ultimitly" be lied to. and dissapointed by HAL when the days are indeed secretly switched (as WE were)..

 

 

So .. Are they, as some say "doing us a favor" by switching the days...? Maybe Yes, But only if you FORGET that they lied to us from the begining and created some the problem in St Thomas with their own ships..

 

 

Come on people, are we the stupid "Sheep" that HAL thinks we are ?? Well are we?

 

I'll say in again .. Just tell us the truth HAL!

 

Srpilo..

[drk]

Just received an email resulting from my request to confirm the itinerary for our 12/11 sailing on the Zuiderdam. HAL is still sticking with the St. T/Tuesday and Tortola/Wed schedule. I also know that the Zaandam does Tortola/Tues and St. T/Weds out of Port Canaveral. We chose the Zuiderdam over the Zaandam because of the additional time in St. T even though the Zaandam is located in a much more convenient port for us to sail out of. This is our first experience with HAL having sailed Celebrity and Carnival several times over the past couple years. So far we're not impressed...kinda ruins the anticipation when you can't plan or be confident in the itinerary.

[superstein61]

Ok..

 

I think some people think the HAL may have our best interest in mind about switching the days, but that still leaves three big questions in my mind..

 

1 . Surely HAL (Carnival Corp) knew the port schedule in advance of their own ships, because it appears the crowding problem stems from weekly calls by various Carnival and Princess ships on Tuesdays, which, by the way, NEVER give up THEIR pier position for a HAL ship.. So good ole Zuiderdam customers eat the bullet over Carnival and Princess customers, and give up their pier spot and our 11pm depature time every week .. Is that fair?

 

2 . Why the subtrefuge on HAL's part.. Why the layers and layers of lies and half truths to its customers.. If indeed their making the switch is for "OUR OWN BENIFIT" (umm?) ,after we've booked it under the old itinerary, why not simply just tell us the truth in advance, so we can at least ajust our plans accordingly ? One poster just mentioned his cruise was switched last April .. So HAL's been thinking about, or doing this switch for atleast 4 months ... geeezz ??

 

3 . If indeed this over crowding can't or WON"T be rectifided by Carnival Corp to the benifit of HAL customers and to the original advertisted itinerary, the ethical and honest thing to do, would be to atleast change the posted itinerary to show the revised days and times, so that new unsuspecting customers aren't lured in with the false and misleading itinerary (as I was), only to "ultimitly" be lied to. and dissapointed by HAL when the days are indeed secretly switched (as WE were)..

 

 

So .. Are they, as some say "doing us a favor" by switching the days...? Maybe Yes, But only if you FORGET that they lied to us from the begining and created some the problem in St Thomas with their own ships..

 

 

Come on people, are we the stupid "Sheep" that HAL thinks we are ?? Well are we?

 

I'll say in again .. Just tell us the truth HAL!

 

Srpilo..

 

AGREED Srpilo !!!!!

 

Since Carnival owns so many of the lines these days - HAl certianly knew what Carnival related ships would be in St Thomas.

 

I don't think its a stretcth to say that HAL has had problems filling the Zuiderdam. At first all the negative comments from early cruisers, then the feeling from many old time HAL customers that wasn't the ship for them. Look at the prices and you will see what I mean. HAL has had to cut the Z prices significantly on many occassions. People here have noted that they were able to pay so little for a S or SS Suite.

 

So you have a ship that has trouble selling - besides price, what else could HAL do but improve the itinerary. So they offer this great 8am - 11pm port time for St Thomas - advertising it for all unsuspecting potential buyers to see and suck people in. They sure got me - and several others from this thread. That 11pm departure time was the deciding factor in my choice.

 

But then HAL starts not delivering on their promise. They don't tell people until a few weeks before their cruise if that. Some have been told on board - sorry we have an itinerary change. But they keep on advertising the old itinerary and sucking more unsuspecting folks in.

 

And they don't even change port times in Tortola - still leaving at 5 or 6 - even though a couple of folks on a raft could float from Tortola to St Thomas in the same time overnight it takes HAL to move the 30 miles.

 

This is no simple error or coincedence IMO. HAL knew or should have known there was a problem. Yet they keep doing it.

 

Everyone should stand their ground and not let HAL get away with this. File your complaints with the applicable agencies. Contact HAl and let them know your displeasure over this bait and switch tactic. It is wrong. Just plain wrong.

[Thumpr]

i contacted Holland America and they told me that our sailing has not been changed. I asked them about this weeks sailing and she said it changed to what you are saying! She informed me it was due to the number of boats in the port at the time. I asked to talk to a supervisor and he told me that the Aug. 28 sailing will not change, But i guess we will see when the time comes

[superstein61]

i contacted Holland America and they told me that our sailing has not been changed. I asked them about this weeks sailing and she said it changed to what you are saying! She informed me it was due to the number of boats in the port at the time. I asked to talk to a supervisor and he told me that the Aug. 28 sailing will not change, But i guess we will see when the time comes

 

Thumpr - I truly hope thats true. Lord knows it seems even different HAl departments are giving out varying information.

 

While its too late to save my cruise from this change in a few weeks - if there is enough continued outcry and questions - maybe someone at HAL will wake up and stop this from occurring for others.

 

But I honestly wouldn't hold my breath - given how HAL has said one thing to people a month or more out and then a few weeks, or days or even onboard the ship said something else.

 

But I do truly hope it you and everyone else in mid August forward do get what you paid for

[jima53]

Well with the little disclaimer they have an out anytime they want to change things. We made cruise reservations more than a year ago and have avidly read the forums ever sense. Hal should know that they are costing themselves money that we would have spent except they are regularly adjusting their schedules so much that we don't want to do anything but stay on the ship. Non alcohol drinkers so they won't make any money off us that way, they have lost a Cabana rental from us and several shore excursions because we feel like they won't keep to their port visits time frame which will affect how we enjoy ourselves.

 

Jim

[MandyGirl]

srpilo -

I totally agree with you. HAL should be honest, and if changing cruise itineraries for Zui since April... that just goes to show HAL's way of doing business.

But... if I can find a positive in all this confusion/dishonesty, I think the one single positive may be "one" fewer ship in port of STT and Tortola. However, that probably doesn't counteract the overall shortened time in port.

The day we married on St John, there were five ships in port (Spring Break). Luckily, we chose a non-touristy beach to repeat our vows, and there were only a couple of other people on the entire beach that were not part of the wedding. So peaceful beaches can be found when many ships are in port as long as you don't go to the big tourist attractions. And great drinks can be had while watching sunset as the other cruiseships leave port! :)

It would be interesting to keep a tally of the Eastern Zui cruises to see how many:

- remain as scheduled

- switch ports but give some sort of forewarning

- switch ports but give no warning until after boarding

Anyone know what the tally be thus far?

[superstein61]

It would be interesting to keep a tally of the Eastern Zui cruises to see how many:

- remain as scheduled

- switch ports but give some sort of forewarning

- switch ports but give no warning until after boarding

Anyone know what the tally be thus far?

 

Well, according to HAl (and we will need confirmation for pax here) - these Eastern Zuiderdam cruises have already been affected:

 

April 24

May 22

June 5

July 3

July 17

 

And per my email - they say

 

July 31 will be and everyone thereafter the rest of the year. We will see.

 

If you know of another date not noted above that was affected by this change, please post

[gizmo]

Two years ago my entire itinerary was switched around, it was reversed. Hal never notificed us. I found it on Hal's web site. I was not happy since I booked it based on which port we would or would not be in on a Sunday. I wanted to shop at Cuaraco. I read on these boards that many shops did not open on Sundays and those that did closed early. What really ticked me off was I asked on board about the shops closing. I was told "Most will all be open". Wrong, only a handful was open for a couple of hours. The town was dead from noon on.

While on board they substitued a port because of "political unrest" which was ok with us but the port Hal choose was a real bummer. (margarita) Most pax did not mind the switch but did mind the port that was choosen. So many nice islands and they stuck us in Margarita.

[KSCnCA]

I will be on the Zui Dec. 11 cruise and took my own count of the ships in St. Thomas on Tuesday, according to current itineraries I could find. Tuesday's count is 5 and Wednesday's count is 6 ships in St. Thomas. I wonder how they figure it will help to switch the Zui to Wednesday????????? :rolleyes:

[gizmo]

The month of Dec is terrible for docking in St.Thomas.

 

If there are 6 ships, someone is going to Anchor.

 

H holds about 3. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

 

I don't remember how many can dock at CB. It might depend on the size of the ships but I do know it is no more than 2.

[MandyGirl]

Gizmo -

 

Spring Break 2003 there were 3 at Havensight and two anchored in the bay with tenders. One was S/S Norway which had no choice, but I believe the other was a HAL ship that day.

[superstein61]

Looks like my info in my original post was correct. Becky just posted on aother thread the following:

 

----------------

 

I just received a fax from HAL regarding the itinerary for the Zuiderdam beginnning with the July 31 cruise through Oct. 23, 2004.

Several of you had mentioned this but I don't think any one had a definate answer - so here it is straight from the horses mouth

 

Saturday, Sunday and Monday remain the same "NO CHANGE"

 

Tuesday is NOW Road Town - 7:00am till 6:00pm

Wednesday NOW St. Thomas - 7:00am till 6:00pm

 

Thursday friday and Saturday remain the same "NO CHANGE"

Read it and weep folks!

 

---------------------

 

Start filing your complaints now folks. This is just plain wrong. Pure bait and Switch advertising IMO

[MandyGirl]

HAL could contract with the Virgin Island ferries.

On our S/S Norway cruise (03/2003), which the Norway always had to anchor/tender, we boarded the ferry for St John directly from the ship. Paid $8 for roundtrip... from ship to Cruz Bay, and then one of the normal scheduled ferries from Cruz Bay back to Charlotte Amalie. Good deal considering CA-Cruz is $7 each way. Anyway, the ferry was a VI ferry that pulled up next to gangplank. Passengers purchased their ticket as an "excursion" ticket and met at 6:45 in a certain location. Made it soooo nice and easy! The passengers who were tendering just to St Thomas just used the little Norway tenders (held up to 400 pax each).

But this is always something HAL could consider. We boarded the ferry at 7A and were on St John by 7:45... and repeating our vows to one another on a beach at 9A.

I'd pay the full price RT ($14) to do that again directly from ship in bay to St John. But NCL certainly had a sweet deal at $8 pp RT.

And if needing to clear Immigration on St Thomas...

On our particular Norway cruise, we had to clear Immigration, so by purchasing the "shore excursion" for $8 ahead of time, that created the passenger manifest NCL could give authorities. We were taken to the immigration dock (NPS) that is next to the normal ferry dock, walked through Immigration showing our passport or Birth Cert, then out to the taxis. Very, very quick and easy. Passenger still on the ship going to St Thomas still had to clear Immigration on board before starting to board tenders to St Thomas. We got the best deal by far.

Makes sense if you think about it.

[srpilo]

Superstein61

 

:( :( :( :(

 

Srpilo

[Florida Lady]

I received a call from my TA this morning confirming the change of port days for the August 14, 2004 sailing of the Zuiderdam. She had just received a call from HAL. It is interesting that as of July 18, 2004 at 2:30PM, HAL was still telling me that there was no change. The left foot is going in a different direction from the right foot.