First (last?) time HAL paranoia

[james j feller]

DAKREWSER,

 

I am one of the OP'S,.

 

I just cancelled that 43 day cruise i booked, my TA called the HAL rep. last week and the rep. said he would get back to him in 24 to 48 hrs., well that never happened and the more i thought about the whole ordeal the madder i got so i cancelled.

 

My TA just called and said that HAL would not give me back the insurance money (i booked the insurance through them), go fight it with your credit card company.

 

How do like those apples.

 

Do you know what really pi---- me off about all this is i like HAL and have sailed with them for over 125 days.

 

JIM

[la_croisiere_s'amuse]

If someone wants to cancel their second cruise because of something that did NOT happen on their first cruise ... bye bye.

Holy Hannah . . . now we are waaaaaaay off base from what my post actually said. If anybody is still interested, my situation and my concerns are spelled out in some detail in my original post.

 

But perhaps this is the wrong forum for addressing such concerns. Many thanks to those who were actually helpful, and sincere apologies for ruffling feathers.

[dakrewser]

DAKREWSER,

 

I am one of the OP'S,.

 

I just cancelled that 43 day cruise i booked, my TA called the HAL rep. last week and the rep. said he would get back to him in 24 to 48 hrs., well that never happened and the more i thought about the whole ordeal the madder i got so i cancelled.

 

My TA just called and said that HAL would not give me back the insurance money (i booked the insurance through them), go fight it with your credit card company.

 

How do like those apples.

 

Do you know what really pi---- me off about all this is i like HAL and have sailed with them for over 125 days.

 

JIM

 

You used a TA, but they talked you into the HAL CPP (which isn't insurance, it just allows you to cancel after final payment date with a lessened penalty)? Bad TA.....

 

And, no, they won't refund it since the whole purpose of it is to provide you the ability to cancel...

 

 

And, as far as we know, your situation was unique - certqainly no one else on your cruise(s) has come forward with a similar story. That seems vastly different from the Noordam incident which, while affecting a number of people, was only about one sailing of one ship and hardly worth all the time that's been taken to talk about it.

[hammybee]

Holy Hannah . . . now we are waaaaaaay off base from what my post actually said. If anybody is still interested' date=' my situation and my concerns are spelled out in some detail in my original post.

 

But perhaps this is the wrong forum for addressing such concerns. Many thanks to those who were actually helpful, and sincere apologies for ruffling feathers.

[/font']

 

You know, back in the old days, something like this would never happen with Captain Stubing around :)

[tomc]

Holy Hannah . . . now we are waaaaaaay off base from what my post actually said.

I thought I understood your original post. Guess not; sorry. :o But apparently you're getting the right answers from people who did, so I'll take off for work and at least try to get that right. ;)

[dippy]

Before I ask my question for clarification, I would like to post a scenario...

 

1. I go into my local car dealer, we enter into negotiations, we come to an agreement (ie: meeting of the minds) step 1 of a contract.

2. I put a downpayment on the purchase and we come to an agreement on the terms of payment (ie: exchange of funds) step 2 of a contract.

3. I sign on the dottd line (ie: confirmation of commitment and my identity) step 3 of a contract.

We have now a legally binding contract. If I decide to back out of the contract, the car dealer can sue me, keep my downpayment, etc, etc, etc...

 

My question, when I book with a travel company, does it have conditions set out that allow it to refund my downpayment or full amount if they wish. However, if I decide to cancel, I may face cancellation penalties up to 100%????? I do not see the equity in the terms of these conditions if this is the case.

 

I rarely read the fine print of travel conditions. WHY you may ask??? Simply, it is the very nature of how I, and many others, purchase vacations. Simply, I go into my TA's shop and state that I want a trip to place X during Y dates. He searches, finds the best deal and I pay. I never get the fine print from the vacation company until my documents arrive and by that time, the full or unpenalized time for cancellation has past. I guess this is why I purchase trip cancellation insurance.

 

I am confused, clarification on this matter is greatly appreciated since it appears, but I am not sure about this, that a vacation company can refund completely without penalty, (in essence using the fine print) but we cannot (once again the fine print)? Were is the fairness in this???

[happy cruzer]

I still think the TA may be culpable in the case. I can't tell though, maybe it is HAL. I thought you got a TA to work out this stuff for you

[dakrewser]

Before I ask my question for clarification, I would like to post a scenario...

 

1. I go into my local car dealer, we enter into negotiations, we come to an agreement (ie: meeting of the minds) step 1 of a contract.

2. I put a downpayment on the purchase and we come to an agreement on the terms of payment (ie: exchange of funds) step 2 of a contract.

3. I sign on the dottd line (ie: confirmation of commitment and my identity) step 3 of a contract.

We have now a legally binding contract. If I decide to back out of the contract, the car dealer can sue me, keep my downpayment, etc, etc, etc...

 

My question, when I book with a travel company, does it have conditions set out that allow it to refund my downpayment or full amount if they wish. However, if I decide to cancel, I may face cancellation penalties up to 100%????? I do not see the equity in the terms of these conditions if this is the case.

 

I rarely read the fine print of travel conditions. WHY you may ask??? Simply, it is the very nature of how I, and many others, purchase vacations. Simply, I go into my TA's shop and state that I want a trip to place X during Y dates. He searches, finds the best deal and I pay. I never get the fine print from the vacation company until my documents arrive and by that time, the full or unpenalized time for cancellation has past. I guess this is why I purchase trip cancellation insurance.

 

I am confused, clarification on this matter is greatly appreciated since it appears, but I am not sure about this, that a vacation company can refund completely without penalty, (in essence using the fine print) but we cannot (once again the fine print)? Were is the fairness in this???

 

Contracts aren't about "fairness". After all, if we could agree on what was "fair" then we wouldn't need a contract....

[james j feller]

DAK,

 

Didn't you say and i quote "you can cancel without penalty" i un quote.

 

What's your point?

 

J

[dippy]

I still think the TA may be culpable in the case. I can't tell though, maybe it is HAL. I thought you got a TA to work out this stuff for you

 

Interesting thought. Who does the TA work for anyway? Is it you or the vacation company? Having sold real estate a long time ago, I know that I worked for who ever paid me my commission.

 

Having said this, we pay the vacation companies and then they pay a commission to the TA. Does this mean that the TA works for the vacation company? Once again, this is why I get trip cancellation/interruption insurance. Cover your ASSets all the time:cool:

[hammybee]

Interesting thought. Who does the TA work for anyway? Is it you or the vacation company? Having sold real estate a long time ago, I know that I worked for who ever paid me my commission.

 

Having said this, we pay the vacation companies and then they pay a commission to the TA. Does this mean that the TA works for the vacation company? Once again, this is why I get trip cancellation/interruption insurance. Cover your ASSets all the time:cool:

 

Dippy,

The T/A is the passenger's agent. The terms and condtions of sailing any cruise line makes this clear.

 

So the T/A is like a buyer's agent and is paid out of the proceeds of the transaction.

[dakrewser]

DAK,

 

Didn't you say and i quote "you can cancel without penalty" i un quote.

 

What's your point?

 

J

 

That's right. It's like buying "insurance" in blackjack - no matter what, you don't get the "insurance" cost back....

[RevNeal]

I rarely read the fine print of travel conditions. WHY you may ask??? Simply, it is the very nature of how I, and many others, purchase vacations. Simply, I go into my TA's shop and state that I want a trip to place X during Y dates. He searches, finds the best deal and I pay. I never get the fine print from the vacation company until my documents arrive and by that time, the full or unpenalized time for cancellation has past. I guess this is why I purchase trip cancellation insurance.

 

Hmmmm.

Well ... I guess I'm just not as trusting as some. I read ALL the fine print on the paperwork my TA sends me when I make my deposit, and that paperwork usually outlines the terms.

 

For myself, I do all the research myself. I know where I want to cruise, on what line (HAL), what ship, what categories, and, indeed, which exact cabins I will accept. I take all the data to my TA (i.e., I e-mail him) and he gets me a quote and a hold on a cabin from the list I give him. If it's an acceptable quote, I'll authorize a deposit to hold my booking. Until we reach the "payment in full" date, and I actually make my final payment, I can back out, change bookings, whatever ... if I find something better or change my mind about the cruise, it's an easy matter to change things if we're still in the period of time between deposit and the final payment date (since I usually book 9 months to a year and a half out, that's a long time). By the time we get to the final payment date (70 or so days out) I'm usually so committed that I don't want to cancel or change my booking. IF the Line wants to cancel it, I get everything back and/or, perhaps, a better deal (possibly with compensation perks) on a different cruise. Yeah, it's a bummer, but sometimes "stuff" happens. Now, frankly, that has never happened to me. I HAVE changed bookings from one cruise to another, etc., but I've never had a cruise canceled out from underneath me. If that were to happen, I would get the cruise cost back. If I've not bought cancellation insurance, I might have to eat my air or some such, but I usually don't buy air until the final-due-date so the chances of that are slim (and, if it's more than just a couple hundred dollars in airfare I almost always buy insurance).

 

In short ... I know the chances I'm taking, and I know how the system works. I read the fine print. I do my own research.

[Steamboatin]

Well here is our recent pricing experience.

 

We paid HAL in full and they changed it.

 

Here is what happened. 3 days prior to sailing our travel agent calls us to inform us that HAL has booked our cabin once with us and once with another couple. They sold our cabin twice.

 

So HAL offered us a FREE 10 day cruise in lieu of our paid 7 day cruise. They refunded our money entirely and gave us an additional ship board credit as well.

 

So we paid in full, got full refund and cruised for FREE for 10 days rather than for originally planned 7 day cruise.

 

So yes HAL does make price changes after one has fully paid for a cruise. In our case it was a 100% refund plus a free cruise with a ship board credit as well. Will gladly take that any day of the week.:D

[noblepa]

Before I ask my question for clarification, I would like to post a scenario...

 

1. I go into my local car dealer, we enter into negotiations, we come to an agreement (ie: meeting of the minds) step 1 of a contract.

2. I put a downpayment on the purchase and we come to an agreement on the terms of payment (ie: exchange of funds) step 2 of a contract.

3. I sign on the dottd line (ie: confirmation of commitment and my identity) step 3 of a contract.

We have now a legally binding contract. If I decide to back out of the contract, the car dealer can sue me, keep my downpayment, etc, etc, etc...

 

Once, many years ago, I ordered a car through a dealer, rather than buying one that was sitting on the lot. I had some rather specific requirements. The fine print of the contract had a clause that was just about exactly what the cruise line's contract has: if the price increased after I ordered the car, but before delivery, the dealer had the option of honoring the old price or not. If the dealer chose not to honor the price, I had the option of backing out of the deal and receiving a refund of any money already paid.

 

Paul Noble

[jhannah]

We paid HAL in full and they changed it ... So yes HAL does make price changes after one has fully paid for a cruise.

But in your case it was not a price change. What you paid (or, in this case, didn't pay) changed ... but it was not the result of a price change by HAL. It was compensation for double-booking.

 

I would also take such an arrangement any day!

[ekerr19]

I still don't understand the problem here.

 

I asked Jim (on his thread about the price change on two combined legs of South America Rotterdam sailings) and never got a reply.

 

It sounds to me like the discount was incorrectly applied to both legs of the sailing when in fact it should have been applied once.

 

His TA should have caught this, imo. To blame his issue on the software pricing problem the Noordam bookings experienced a few months back is wrong. These are two intirely different things.

 

Now people are posting that there is a strong possibilty HAL will increase the price of their cruise????? I have never seen this happen - ever. The Noordam issue was the only time I've even heard of it and frankly HAL made a huge blunder in my opinion by not honoring those fares. This pricing error was an isolated incident as far as I can tell - and all this drama over fares potentially increasing after deposit is scaring people needlessly.

 

Also, another poster pointed out to Jim (on his thread) that cabins could still be booked for the price Jim was quoted, so what is the real issue? :confused:

 

For all of you HAL newbies - my family has been booking on HAL (parents, brothers, sisters, etc.) since 1980. I have never seen or heard of the price increasing after the deposit has been made. More often than not, we have been most fortunate to find ourselves the beneficiaries of price reductions. The Noordam pricing error was a fluke, and I can't help but to think HAL will not allow that to happen again.

[PHreuD69]

It's a shame that we do not hear from the millions of HAL cruisers who benefit when HAL reduces their prices after initial booking and before final payment date.

 

I'm such a success story, though it sure pays to do your homework. By constantly checking the online price, we were able to lower the final price by 400. We will make final payment tomorrow, and I'm still checking.

 

One thing that made me laugh is that when our TA finally got around to making the price change (it took four phone calls, but that's a different story), they sent both a snail an email note that said "We (meaing the TA) were able to lower your fare on your cruise by $400.00 today at no extra charge to you". Yeah, they lowered the fare. Hah. I wonder if they would have even checked to see if the fare was lower when we went in to pay off the balance.

[james j feller]

EKERR,

 

Hi,

 

I thought i anwered those questions on my thread but i will answer them for you.

 

My TA received two faxs from HAL , first one gave him a price that was alot lower for the 2nd leg (first leg was ok) the price was really low as HAL said to me when i called them they double discounted the 2nd leg.

 

My TA said he thought it was to low also so he called HAL and asked them and they said yes that is the right price, he said, send me another fax for the price of the second leg,they sent him the the same exact price as the first.

 

So i booked it ,then they called a few days later and said oops wrong price,

you owe us more.

 

I don't know where that other guy got his prices but i can tell you that the prices on HAL web site are way different then what they quoted me.

 

JIM

[la_croisiere_s'amuse]

Now people are posting that there is a strong possibilty HAL will increase the price of their cruise????? The Noordam pricing error was a fluke, and I can't help but to think HAL will not allow that to happen again.

From what I have read -- and certainly from what I have posted -- the concern is not about a "strong possibility" of a price increase. Rather, what troubles me (and apparently many others) is HAL's response to the pricing errors that have already been made. My experience has been that with any cruiseline, stuff happens -- it's a part of life. But the lines that I have previously sailed with have always acknowledged their share of the accountability, and acted accordingly.

 

As I stated in my original post, even if this sort of pricing error never does happen to me, it makes a bit leery of other similar situations that might arise, and leave me holding the bag. Mistakes are certainly not unique to HAL, they happen everywhere. But I'd rather know that my cruiseline will step up to the plate when they occur.

[xpcdoojk]

I think this is basically assembling a mole hill into a small mountain. ;)

 

JMHO

 

jc

[hammybee]

I'm such a success story, though it sure pays to do your homework. By constantly checking the online price, we were able to lower the final price by 400. We will make final payment tomorrow, and I'm still checking.

 

One thing that made me laugh is that when our TA finally got around to making the price change (it took four phone calls, but that's a different story), they sent both a snail an email note that said "We (meaing the TA) were able to lower your fare on your cruise by $400.00 today at no extra charge to you". Yeah, they lowered the fare. Hah. I wonder if they would have even checked to see if the fare was lower when we went in to pay off the balance.

 

Good for you. Your persistence paid off.

[hammybee]

From what I have read -- and certainly from what I have posted -- the concern is not about a "strong possibility" of a price increase. Rather' date=' what troubles me (and apparently many others) is HAL's response to the pricing errors that have already been made. My experience has been that with [i']any[/i] cruiseline, stuff happens -- it's a part of life. But the lines that I have previously sailed with have always acknowledged their share of the accountability, and acted accordingly.

 

As I stated in my original post, even if this sort of pricing error never does happen to me, it makes a bit leery of other similar situations that might arise, and leave me holding the bag. Mistakes are certainly not unique to HAL, they happen everywhere. But I'd rather know that my cruiseline will step up to the plate when they occur.

 

There was one massive pricing error effecting one HAL ship 4-5 months out. The error was caught relatively qucik, within days, I think. That it took some passengers' T/As weeks to communicate the situation is a different problem.

It's unfortunate and it sucked to be those passengers who were dissappointed.

 

I am not sure what bag it is that you do not want to get stuck holding. Those passengers that chose to not pay the difference were refunded their deposits. They were not out of pocket a dime. The end result is no different than booking a cruise, any cruise, with any cruise line and later finding the ship was chartered, or had to go into dry dock or the sailing cancelled for other reasons.These events happen on all cruise lines. Passengers get their money back. And life goes on.

 

As I previously said, HAL is not the only cruise line in the sea. If you persist in worrying about what happened to some passengers, you really might want to consider a fresh start and cancel your HAL cruise and sail with another carrier.

[dippy]

Hmmmm.

Well ... I guess I'm just not as trusting as some. I read ALL the fine print on the paperwork my TA sends me when I make my deposit, and that paperwork usually outlines the terms.

 

Interesting, do you get the docs earlier than the rest of us (ie: before the penalty free cancellation period has lapsed) so as to read the fine print before purchasing your vacations??

 

Are these listed in a brochure? Are those subject to change without notice??? You are right REV, I too do not trust anyone and that is why Trip Cancellation/Interruption Insurance is very important when the fine print is supposedly stacked against the vacationer as has been suggested in this thread by many???

[hammybee]

EKERR,

 

So i booked it ,then they called a few days later and said oops wrong price,

you owe us more.

 

I don't know where that other guy got his prices but i can tell you that the prices on HAL web site are way different then what they quoted me.

 

JIM

I noticed from the roll call of this sailing that you cancelled your cruise because of bad HAL. For the heck of it, I just checked 3 online T/A websites and the combined price for both legs is LESS than what you were originally quoted for an outside category. The second leg is well on its way to being sold out. I am sorry, but I am just not seeing your side of the story here.

 

You also previously said you will not change T/As so I guess you have made your decision. It's a shame you decided to cancel, as it sounds like a great intinerary. In the meantime, you have your Princess cruise to look forward to. I hope it and the intinerary meets your expectations. Have a good cruise.