Hal - Pinnacle Grill/free-style Dining

[GeriatricNurse]

Hi:

 

Could someone please tell me if the $30 surcharge each for dining in the Pinnacle Grill on HAL cruises also includes the gratuity? If not, what would be the recommended gratuity per person for dinner?

 

Also, does anyone know which two HAL ships will be starting the "Free-Style" dining in 2007? Will this be the only type of dining on these ?two ships?

 

Thank you.

[capnjoe]

I just booked another trip on the Noordam 10-20-07, they will be doing the "freestyle" dinning, meaning you can come to the dinning room anytime between 6-9:30 and be seated for dinner. You will not have an assigned seat,nor the same waiters. If you come at a peek time you may have to wait to be seated according to HAL. To me it seems like a dumb idea, but who knows, it may be very popular, just not with me.

capn

[capnjoe]

sorry WSOD!

[RevNeal]

I'm sorry, but in my opinion this "Free-style" Dining sounds like a recipe for disaster. LONG waits. Pagers. And ... for the singer cruiser ... LONELY, frustrating, dinners seated by oneself. :( I might as well eat in my cabin, all by myself, if that's what it's going to be like for us Solo cruisers under the new system.

 

Oh, well ... there goes another lovely tradition.

[kryos]

ITo me it seems like a dumb idea, but who knows, it may be very popular, just not with me.

I hate to say it, but I think it's gonna be very popular considering the type of cruiser who would generally sail the Vista ship ... younger, families with kids, etc. They don't want to be boxed in for a set seating time ... they don't want to get stuck dining with strangers if they can't get a table sized strictly for the number of people in their party. I think the freestyle dining will go over very well on those two ships, especially when you consider the itineraries they do ... shorter, family-oriented. Just look at how popular "Personal choice dining" is on Princess, and, of course, "Freestyle" on NCL. We stauch HAL cruisers may turn our noses up at NCL's Freestyle, but there sure are a lot of people who absolutely love it.

 

I just hope HAL restricts the Freestyle to their larger ships and leaves things alone on the smaller ones doing longer itineraries.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[serendipity1499]

The $30.00 is a service charge & is not meant to be or include the gratuity..No one will tell you what exactly what to do in the Pinnacle including the Gals at the Front Desk..When we asked them, we were told it is neither asked for nor expected, as HAL prides themselves on their service & was up to us to do what we want..

 

Some CC's will state they leave nothing, others will say they leave anywhere from $10.00 to $20.00 per couple, & others will say they leave more than $20.00 per couple...You really have to do what you are comfortable with..It's the same way with your Cabin & Dining Room Stewards..

 

Now that they have increased the charge from $20.00 to $30.00 we might dine less often in the Pinnacle unless it was for a special occasion..It also depends on the service which can be excellent, good, not so good & downright poor.. The service in the Dining Room on the Prinsendam, was much better than the service in the Pinnacle..But we dined in the Pinnacle, while on the Ryndam, in November & told them it was a TA gift..Yet the food & service was exceptional & we did left a nice tip..

 

Enjoy your cruise..Betty

[kryos]

I'm sorry, but in my opinion this "Free-style" Dining sounds like a recipe for disaster. LONG waits. Pagers. And ... for the singer cruiser ... LONELY, frustrating, dinners seated by oneself. :( I might as well eat in my cabin, all by myself, if that's what it's going to be like for us Solo cruisers under the new system.

Rev, that's exactly what scares the heck out of me with Freestyle. I've heard from people who sail NCL that it can be very difficult to find people to eat with because most people come to the dining room requesting a specific table size strictly for their group. The matri 'd is somewhat reluctant to ask them if they'd mind having a solo dine with them. After all ... they trumpet the big draw of freestyle cruising as being able to dine when and WITH WHOM you want.

 

So, unless there happen to be other solos waiting for tables, I can imagine dinners for the solo cruiser are gonna be very lonely affairs under this Freestyle concept, and the only way to make it work is to find other solos onboard ... and you'd better do it quick, either via these boards or by hanging out in common areas specifically looking for people who are alone, and then hoping they truly are alone on the ship. Then you can see if they would be interested in pairing up for dinner. They may be, and then again they may not be. Maybe they've got other friends onboard.

 

If HAL goes 100% Freestyle dining at some point in the future, then I guess I won't be cruising HAL any longer. If the entire industry goes in the Freestyle direction over the next ten to 20 years, then I guess I won't be cruising at all any longer ... because, to me, meeting new people and sharing the evening meal with them is one of the specific reasons I cruise. Take that away and I've really got little reason to anymore.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

The $30.00 is a service charge & is not meant to be or include the gratuity..No one will tell you what exactly what to do in the Pinnacle including the Gals at the Front Desk..When we asked them, we were told it is neither asked for nor expected, as HAL prides themselves on their service & was up to us to do what we want..

LOL ... trust me ... at least on every cruise I've been on so far, I've rarely if ever seen anyone tip in the Pinnacle Grill. People assume the service charge includes the gratuity and I've rarely seen anyone slip the waiter something additional. After all, few people even carry money around onboard ship ... so they've got a ready-made excuse at the end of the meal ... "gee, I don't have a dime on me."

 

The one Pinnacle dinner I enjoyed on the Amsterdam last January ... with a single and solos group ... I made mention to the people at my table ... "what do you all think is an appropriate tip?" I made sure to bring money with me that night and assumed we'd all agree on an amount and then pool it. Well, my lord ... everyone looked at me like I had grown a second head. "Tip? That's added to our onboard accounts each day ... you don't tip him anything additional." I'd bet it's a rare thing that any of those Pinnacle waiters are left a tip ... probably about 95% of the people dining there leave nothing.

 

So ... personally, I'd be willing to bet that the waiters in the Pinnacle are included in the auto-tip pool ... and if they truly are not, then the fact that they are getting "stiffed" so much is the reason for the $10 pp increase in the Pinnacle service charge ... to carve out something extra for the Pinnacle's wait staff with that extra $10 bucks.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[jtl513]

Last week we were docked next to the NCL Norwegian Sun in Guatemala and I asked some passengers coming off that ship how long the dining room wait lines were. Their answer: NONE! Unfortunately, I didn't ask if they were early diners.

 

Greg: unless you ask for a certain size table, wouldn't they "fill in" tables as they do now for breakfast and lunch in the d.r.?

 

OP: I think many people ... including us .. tip about $10 pp in the Pinnacle IF the service is good ... which isn't always the case. The waiters there do get a part of the $3/day/person not allocated to your cabin or d.r. stewards, so in a sense everyone on board is tipping them whether they they eat there or not.

 

BTW: HAL now refers to the auto-tip as a "Hotel Service Charge" rather than a "Gratuity" as they did or our June cruise. I think this is to discourage people from "opting out" or altering it.

[mick70]

As for me if HAL goes freestyle I will go else where. Since the Pinnacle Grill as seen fit to increase the charge from $20 to $30, I will not be going there either. I did not find my last visit to the Grill to be that great anyhow, very poor service.

[Navy_Chief]

That's interesting; I just met with Hotel Manager Henk Mensink and Cruise Director Drew Murdock at the end of our Noordam cruise (having set up our CC Group meeting) for a Q&A session. The Dining question came up asking the group leaders there what we thought of the leisure dining experiment being used on Noordam. All the group leaders agreed that the experiment seemed to be working. Some comments were that it seemed to favor the early seating but I don’t see how. Henk mentioned that metrics show that most diners are showing up at their usually scheduled time. There was talk that on Oosterdam the upper level was doing leisure dining and the lower level was the standard fixed dining hours; Henk stated that this was proving to be a logistics nightmare though an alternative to Noordam’s current experiment. At no time was it indicated that HAL was going “Freestyle” like NCL; in fact just the opposite. I’m wondering if people are substituting or getting “Leisure” dining mixed up with “Freestyle”. Here is a reprint of what has been sent in the document packages:

Holland America Line

IMPORTANT DINING NOTICE

Dear Guest,

We are excited to advise you of a new dining concept - Leisure Dining Service - that will be featured during this sailing. We have designed Leisure Dining Service to provide our guests with that extra flexibility that we all want on our vacations.

Simply stated, Leisure Dining Service means you do not have to arrive at the Vista Dining Room at a specific time. Instead, we have created two dining time windows which you can use as you please.

For those guests who had confirmed dining times of either 5:45 p.m. or 6:15 p.m., you may now come to the Vista Dining Room at any time between 5:30 p.m. and 6:00 p.m. We do request that you arrive no later than 6:00 p.m.

For those guests who had confirmed dining times of either 8:00 p.m. or 8:30 p.m., you may now come to the Vista Dining Room at any time between 8:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. This is truly leisure at its finest.

No one has to make a special reservation for a certain time. Furthermore, the table previously reserved for you will still be your table.

If you have questions, our Dining Room Staff will be available during embarkation from 12.30 p.m. until 4:00 p.m. outside the Explorer's Lounge on Deck 2.

At Holland America Line, we are always looking for ways to make your vacation just a little more luxurious. It is with that goal in mind that we are proud to present our new Leisure Dining Service.

BON VOYAGE!

[kryos]

Greg: unless you ask for a certain size table, wouldn't they "fill in" tables as they do now for breakfast and lunch in the d.r.?

That's what I would have thought ... but apparently that's not how NCL does it. You (the single) may be more than happy to dine with others, but you won't be forced down anyone's throat. Unless you make arrangements ahead of time ... I read one post where the woman stationed herself outside the dining room and then asked some folks if she could join their table ... the matri 'd will seat you by yourself. He will apparently assume that parties arriving in the dining room together want to eat together and he won't try to foist the solo off on them.

 

At least that's how it was explained to me. I was asking about it only because I was considering an NCL cruise from my home city port and had concerns about the dining arrangements. The conclusion I came to was that NCL might be a great line ... ONLY if you are traveling with others. But they are not at all single and solo friendly ... either in their dining arrangements or their single supplements ... which are 200%.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[hammybee]

LOL ... trust me ... at least on every cruise I've been on so far, I've rarely if ever seen anyone tip in the Pinnacle Grill. People assume the service charge includes the gratuity and I've rarely seen anyone slip the waiter something additional. After all, few people even carry money around onboard ship ... so they've got a ready-made excuse at the end of the meal ... "gee, I don't have a dime on me."

 

The one Pinnacle dinner I enjoyed on the Amsterdam last January ... with a single and solos group ... I made mention to the people at my table ... "what do you all think is an appropriate tip?" I made sure to bring money with me that night and assumed we'd all agree on an amount and then pool it. Well, my lord ... everyone looked at me like I had grown a second head. "Tip? That's added to our onboard accounts each day ... you don't tip him anything additional." I'd bet it's a rare thing that any of those Pinnacle waiters are left a tip ... probably about 95% of the people dining there leave nothing.

 

So ... personally, I'd be willing to bet that the waiters in the Pinnacle are included in the auto-tip pool ... and if they truly are not, then the fact that they are getting "stiffed" so much is the reason for the $10 pp increase in the Pinnacle service charge ... to carve out something extra for the Pinnacle's wait staff with that extra $10 bucks.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

My intent is not to start another tipping controversy as I really believe it is up to each individual to decide what to do. I do however, want to point out that everytime I have eaten in the PG, it appeared that everyone did leave a tip. In fact, I saw several people come back with cash because it may not have dawned on them when they were departing their cabin.

 

As for me, I consider cruising to be such a value that I feel better when I do tip for good service. But as I said, what the next guy does is not my concern.

[hammybee]

I choose to sail NCL on very port intensive cruises because I like the idea of dining whenever I want to do so. This also means that I may be dining in formal wear while the couple at the next table has not managed to change out of their bathrobes which is interesting.

 

I think the demographic that HAL is being marketed to, generally prefers freestyle dining as opposed to traditional seating and I am also seeing a trend away from larger tables and of course a movement to a less formal enviornment.

 

If consumers did not want it, HAL would not be doing it and as we all know, HAL and all the others have to do whatever they need to do to fill those cabins.

 

I really hope they find a way to let the two forms of dining coexist, either by upper/lower dining room or by class of ship.

[marti2282]

I an not a fan of the freestyle/anytime/whatever they choose to call it dining! On our last (and I do mean LAST) NCL (Spirit 2005) cruise dining waits were 45 minutes to an hour AND they didn't have pagers. Guests clogged the stairways--it was like the Outback on payday. Fairly barbaric--at least at Outback the is a little girl who comes around and sells drinks. I have also done anytime dining on Princess and it was a little better, but the ship was not full.

 

I really think that dining is part of the cruise experience and I hate to think that HAL will go this direction.

[sail7seas]

My intent is not to start another tipping controversy as I really believe it is up to each individual to decide what to do. I do however, want to point out that everytime I have eaten in the PG, it appeared that everyone did leave a tip. In fact, I saw several people come back with cash because it may not have dawned on them when they were departing their cabin.

 

As for me, I consider cruising to be such a value that I feel better when I do tip for good service. But as I said, what the next guy does is not my concern.

 

Thank you, Hammybee. The same applies to us. We have never left Pinnacle without tipping our stewards and most often the Maitre d' as well.

 

Just because some people don't SEE others tipping does not mean they are not leaving tips. My husband makes no flash and dash about shaking the stewards hand and thanking them for a lovely evening. You would have no way of knowing what denomination bill was in that handshake.

[PRINSENDAM]

 

Holland America Line

 

IMPORTANT DINING NOTICE

 

For those guests who had confirmed dining times of either 5:45 p.m. or 6:15 p.m., you may now come to the Vista Dining Room at any time between 5:30 p.m. and 6:00 p.m. We do request that you arrive no later than 6:00 p.m.

 

For those guests who had confirmed dining times of either 8:00 p.m. or 8:30 p.m., you may now come to the Vista Dining Room at any time between 8:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. This is truly leisure at its finest.

 

No one has to make a special reservation for a certain time. Furthermore, the table previously reserved for you will still be your table.

 

 

BON VOYAGE!

 

 

 

Now, to me this makes perfect sense and is the best of all worlds!

 

In effect they have gone back to the traditional system of two sittings... main sitting and late sitting, but with the flexibility of being able to arrive within a 30 minute or 60 minute window instead of the old ten or fifteen minute window. You keep the same table etc etc. This is a win win situation.

 

The only concern might be arriving at say just before 9 pm and being 'rushed' to finish so the guys can go home. I think the majority of paaz will still come in betwen 8 and 8.15... if they want to finsh dinner and get out to see the show.

 

Overall, this system makes perfcet sense... for everyone.

 

I hope it turns out to be popular and the and hopefully the LAST time the system will be changed!!!!

 

Stephen

[PRINSENDAM]

The conclusion I came to was that NCL might be a great line ... ONLY if you are traveling with others. But they are not at all single and solo friendly ... either in their dining arrangements or their single supplements ... which are 200%.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

 

Hi Rita,

 

RCI does the same nonsense with their 200% for single occuppancy. This past summer my sister book on a cruise with RCI and I was shocked at the rate she was charged for a standard INSIDE cabin as a single. She could have cruised as a single on HAL in an outside for the same price!

 

Stephen

[7continentKaren]

Since the drinks have a built in tip, I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that the $30 at Pinnacle also had a built in tip. We had dinner there on Prinsendam recently and the service was much worse than in the dining room. We waited an hour and a half for our main course. At our dining room table, even though almost everyone ordered soup, appetizer, and salad first, our main course was served in an hour from seating. The steak at Pinnacle arrived medium, not medium rare, and was the small cut, not the large one ordered. I could not see complaining since we did not want to wait another hour and a half. The maitre d' apologized but did not explain the delay. Even the volcano dessert was not special. We would certainly never eat there again. Our travel agent bought the dinner or we would have skipped it. The dining room had excellent food, every bit as good as Pinnacle. We missed beautiful medium rare, juice prime rib the night we "upgraded."

 

Prior to this sailing, we had dinner on Westerdam in May at Pinnacle and were very happy with our meal. Again our travel agent paid. I don't think I would have booked it though if she had not bought dinner.

 

We sailed on NCL and HATED freestyle dining. Since we were traveling just as a couple, we were looking forward to meeting people at dinner. We met no one. Most of the nights, we were seated at a table for two. The waiters were surly and claimed to be overworked. More than half the ship showed up at 7 pm and many were turned away. What part of eat when you want was that? They had a stupid dress code that forbid denim. One woman showed up in a very fashionable, dressy denim pants suit and was turned away.

[amusea]

That's interesting; I just met with Hotel Manager Henk Mensink and Cruise Director Drew Murdock at the end of our Noordam cruise (having set up our CC Group meeting) for a Q&A session. The Dining question came up asking the group leaders there what we thought of the leisure dining experiment being used on Noordam. All the group leaders agreed that the experiment seemed to be working. Some comments were that it seemed to favor the early seating but I don’t see how. Henk mentioned that metrics show that most diners are showing up at their usually scheduled time. There was talk that on Oosterdam the upper level was doing leisure dining and the lower level was the standard fixed dining hours; Henk stated that this was proving to be a logistics nightmare though an alternative to Noordam’s current experiment. At no time was it indicated that HAL was going “Freestyle” like NCL; in fact just the opposite. I’m wondering if people are substituting or getting “Leisure” dining mixed up with “Freestyle”. Here is a reprint of what has been sent in the document packages:

 

Holland America Line

 

IMPORTANT DINING NOTICE

Dear Guest,

 

We are excited to advise you of a new dining concept - Leisure Dining Service - that will be featured during this sailing. We have designed Leisure Dining Service to provide our guests with that extra flexibility that we all want on our vacations.

 

Simply stated, Leisure Dining Service means you do not have to arrive at the Vista Dining Room at a specific time. Instead, we have created two dining time windows which you can use as you please.

 

For those guests who had confirmed dining times of either 5:45 p.m. or 6:15 p.m., you may now come to the Vista Dining Room at any time between 5:30 p.m. and 6:00 p.m. We do request that you arrive no later than 6:00 p.m.

 

For those guests who had confirmed dining times of either 8:00 p.m. or 8:30 p.m., you may now come to the Vista Dining Room at any time between 8:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. This is truly leisure at its finest.

 

No one has to make a special reservation for a certain time. Furthermore, the table previously reserved for you will still be your table.

 

If you have questions, our Dining Room Staff will be available during embarkation from 12.30 p.m. until 4:00 p.m. outside the Explorer's Lounge on Deck 2.

 

At Holland America Line, we are always looking for ways to make your vacation just a little more luxurious. It is with that goal in mind that we are proud to present our new Leisure Dining Service.

 

BON VOYAGE!

 

 

I take exception to HAL's new slant on time "windows". For a long cruise on the Amsterdam next year I requested the early seating on the main floor. The time quoted was 6:15. This means I would get to the dining room somewhere in the 6:20 to 6:25 period. If I am now asked to change the "window" to 5:30 - 6:00 I will have to arrive at the dining room about 5:55. For me, this is too early by one half hour and is the reason I did not opt for the upper level early seating. I thought HAL was very clever to use the dual level dining room to give us four different dining times - something which I thought was totally unique to HAL. Now it seems they are already deciding to scrap the idea. Furthermore, I don't think I could change my dining time now if I wanted to.

 

As far as singles are concerned, I think Oceania has the best configuration.

Since there is one seating, you can dine whenever you desire. There are many tables next to windows that are configured in three sets of two but close together. Even if you, as a single, are seated at one of the tables for two you are more than likely to strike up a conversation with the diners on one or both sides of your table ( if you are in the middle table). You never feel isolated or out of place. Because the ship is small, passengers tend to

seem more friendly and open to conversation with strangers. Just my personal observation. I do think Oceania is one of the greatest values at sea. But the ships are a little small for crossing major oceans if the seas get rough.

[gooselace]

Rev, that's exactly what scares the heck out of me with Freestyle. I've heard from people who sail NCL that it can be very difficult to find people to eat with because most people come to the dining room requesting a specific table size strictly for their group. The matri 'd is somewhat reluctant to ask them if they'd mind having a solo dine with them. After all ... they trumpet the big draw of freestyle cruising as being able to dine when and WITH WHOM you want.

 

So, unless there happen to be other solos waiting for tables, I can imagine dinners for the solo cruiser are gonna be very lonely affairs under this Freestyle concept, and the only way to make it work is to find other solos onboard ... and you'd better do it quick, either via these boards or by hanging out in common areas specifically looking for people who are alone, and then hoping they truly are alone on the ship. Then you can see if they would be interested in pairing up for dinner. They may be, and then again they may not be. Maybe they've got other friends onboard.

 

If HAL goes 100% Freestyle dining at some point in the future, then I guess I won't be cruising HAL any longer. If the entire industry goes in the Freestyle direction over the next ten to 20 years, then I guess I won't be cruising at all any longer ... because, to me, meeting new people and sharing the evening meal with them is one of the specific reasons I cruise. Take that away and I've really got little reason to anymore.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Haven't been on NCL, but the way it worked on Princess was that singles and twosomes and even threes that had personal choice dining but hadn't reserved a specific table were seated together until a table was basically filled (sometimes one or more open seats). It worked well for us and we met more people than we did on the Westerdam, when we were at a table for eight. We were two single ladies and only the one couple conversed with us. The other four, a family (mother, 2 daughters and one son-in-law), rarely spoke even to each other. The personal choice dining was the only thing on Princess that I liked better than HAL.

[DMRick]

That's what I would have thought ... but apparently that's not how NCL does it. You (the single) may be more than happy to dine with others, but you won't be forced down anyone's throat. Unless you make arrangements ahead of time

When we cruised NCL in September, just before they sat us, they asked if we minded if anyone else joined us. I happened to mind, because perfume gives me a migraine, and I didn't want to take a chance, but my daughter dined with others when we didn't join them in the dining room.

I liked the concept of free styling dining..I just hated the poor service once we were in the dining room.

[calm_seas]

RCI does the same nonsense with their 200% for single occuppancy. This past summer my sister book on a cruise with RCI and I was shocked at the rate she was charged for a standard INSIDE cabin as a single. She could have cruised as a single on HAL in an outside for the same price!

 

Stephen

 

Hi Stephen...... I got quite a surprise with my current bookings on the Noordam. Evidently, HAL has gone to the 200% for some of the cabin categories:rolleyes: . (I can't speak for all categories, because I did not price any except my preferred category).

 

TO OTHERS: Tipping in the Pinnacle is quite usual, based on my experience and observations. Also, if I feel uncomfortable shaking hands as I exit, an envenlope left descretly on the table with an indication that it is for the wait staff is usually acknowledged and appreciated.

[PRINSENDAM]

Hi Stephen...... I got quite a surprise with my current bookings on the Noordam. Evidently, HAL has gone to the 200% for some of the cabin categories:rolleyes: . (I can't speak for all categories, because I did not price any except my preferred category).

 

TO OTHERS: Tipping in the Pinnacle is quite usual, based on my experience and observations. Also, if I feel uncomfortable shaking hands as I exit, an envenlope left descretly on the table with an indication that it is for the wait staff is usually acknowledged and appreciated.

 

 

Calm Seas.

 

I should have been more specific. The surcharge for singles in the lower grades is 135%... or it used to be. Some middle grades are 150% but the top grades.... suites etc have always been 200%. I think it is quite fair the way it is done. RCI's across the board 200% is not nice at all!

 

Yes I also do as you in the Pinnacle. If you leave it on the table as you are finishing your coffee the waiters soon know what you are doing.

 

Stephen

[barbon2]

Booked the Noordam on Friday with confirmed upper dining 7:45. Was informed by TA today that this is not available, booked by a group but we could have freestyle in lower dining room. (Alaska 8/26/07) Am NOT happy at all, in fact we are looking into other cruising options. Am waiting to hear what my TA finds out tomorrow. We were on the Oosterdam 12/2. and they had the window dining times which was fine. There was a large group of 600 card players and some areas of the ship were off limits to other guests. This is especially why I am concerned about the Noordam in Aug. If there is another large group on board, am not intersted. Nor am I interested in freestyle dining. I too think there will be long waits for particular table sizes. We are going with another couple and DO NOT wish to be seated with others, but I think they will try and fill the tables as the people come along. Was not thrilled with HAL (our 3rd cruise with them on the Oosterdam on 12/2 but decided because of itinerary to give them another try.) HOWEVER, now with the group and dining style change, I think I will have to cross HAL off of my list.

Barbara