Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[MMDown Under]

Bon voyage and bon chance for your ship and rail journey - it sounds loverly. By the time you get to Vancouver, your train trip will have revealed the glorious scenery extant in Canada and the "dark and deep blue ocean." My face is red - I thought you and Barry were doing this trip in late November (our Thanksgiving) - whoops!

 

Query: What port stops does Poesia make from Germany to NYC? Or is it a crossing that goes straightaway to New York?

 

Enjoy!

 

Ruby

 

Thank you all for your good wishes.

 

Oh no, Ruby, it was the ports of call which attracted me to this cruise, as well as the price. I'm not so sure about the size of the ship, nor some of the clientelle (as pointed out by Ships Cat), but we shouldn't be in the minority this TA.

 

Departing 4th September from Kiel, Copenhagen, Southhampton, Le Havre, Vigo, Lisbon, Azores Islands (Portugese), overnight Bermuda and overnight Manhattan, disembarking 22nd September. I love cruising to islands, in particular. Hoping for warmer weather and smoother seas on the southern route, although the Bay of Biscay can be a problem!

[Host Sharon]

Wow - what a lovely itinerary. I love Copenhagen !! When will you be in Southampton ?

Edited August 17, 2010 by ships cat

[MMDown Under]

We're scheduled to be in Southampton on Tuesday, 7th September 9am - 8 pm, although the wharf booking is earlier.

 

Do you live near Southampton? I've passed through a couple of time - in 1969, on my first overseas cruise and en route to the Isle of Wight. This time, we're thinking of visiting the New Forest area.

 

I love Copenhagen also, so much so I've used it as a day stopover en route to London. I love Danish design. As we'll be there on a Sunday, I'd like to hire bikes, if the weather is kind.

 

BTW Princess Mary is visiting Australia at present to see her sister and family in Hobart and to attend her friend's 40th birthday party in Adelaide.

Edited August 17, 2010 by MMDown Under

[Kapricorn]

Departing 4th September from Kiel, Copenhagen, Southhampton, Le Havre, Vigo, Lisbon, Azores Islands (Portugese), overnight Bermuda and overnight Manhattan, disembarking 22nd September. I love cruising to islands, in particular. Hoping for warmer weather and smoother seas on the southern route, although the Bay of Biscay can be a problem!

 

Marion and Barry, that is a great itinerary! I am looking forward to hearing about your cruise afterwards.

 

Donald.

[Saga Ruby]

BTW Princess Mary is visiting Australia at present to see her sister and family in Hobart and to attend her friend's 40th birthday party in Adelaide.

 

I went completely blank about "Princess Mary" in your note, thinking she was of the house of Windsor but, after running her name on the Web, I see she is a member of the Denmark royal family. So she traveled all the way from Copenhagen to Hobart to drop in on a family birthday? That is such a long distance from her family - did she marry a prince of Denmark?

 

ships cat - Where do you stand on your book? Still writing furiously or off to the publishers? Are you getting excited about your upcoming voyage or just weary for the moment?

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Last night I watched on Turner Movie Classics the 1960 film The Last Voyage, starring Robert Stack, Dorothy Malone and George Sanders. When I was a young teen I had gone with my father to see it in the theatre. The Ile de France was used as the prop just before she went to the ship breakers. It was a treat to see in colour some of the interiors: first-class main staircase, lounge and dining room, cocktail lounge, movie theatre, corridors, bridge, promenade and boat decks.

The transatlantic story was set in mid-afternoon, but all of the passengers were nicely dressed, with men in suits and ties and ladies in dresses. Not a baseball cap, blue jeans or t-shirt was to be seen anywhere.

This brings up another subject, about air travel. I had been reading online about the flight attendant who recently screamed at the passengers and then exited by an emergency chute. His lawyer said: Then, of course, there's the whole airline experience today. Steven said to me, "I used to supply Chateaubriand for people going to Europe on TWA, and now I throw a bag of Cheetos at someone who can't be bothered to take a shower before they get on an airplane."

How fortunate we were to have experienced ocean and air travel at their most glamourous several decades ago.

Donald.

[MMDown Under]

I went completely blank about "Princess Mary" in your note, thinking she was of the house of Windsor but, after running her name on the Web, I see she is a member of the Denmark royal family. So she traveled all the way from Copenhagen to Hobart to drop in on a family birthday? That is such a long distance from her family - did she marry a prince of Denmark?

 

Ruby

 

Sorry, it was such huge news here and in Denmark an Australian commoner marrying into the Danish Royal Family. Yes, he met her here in a pub at the Olympic Games (he is a yachtsman). She learnt fluent Danish before they married. They have a son (heir to the throne) and a daughter and are now expecting twins. She came home for her girlfriend's 40th birthday (one of her bridesmaids) and to see her family. Her father has a job in Denmark, so she gets to see him and his second wife, but is a long way from other members of her family.

[Saga Ruby]

The Ile de France was used as the prop just before she went to the ship breakers.

 

. . . all of the passengers were nicely dressed . . .

 

How fortunate we were to have experienced ocean and air travel at their most glamourous several decades ago. Donald.

Ah, yes, the Good Aulde Days. I'm not much of one to look in the rearview mirror but I miss the sophistication and defined social etiquette in my early days of ocean travel. I still haven't figured out when Gen X or the Millenials decide to "dress up." Although they have certainly taken their morals and our traditions for weddings, multiplied the ceremony to a linear exponential of 10, and made a wedding a bit of a short-film Hollywood presentation. Harumph!

 

In The Last Voyage, did the moviemakers pretend to blow up the ship or set fire to it? I have a vague memory of the movie but don't remember the scripted end of Ile de France.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Ah, yes, the Good Aulde Days. I'm not much of one to look in the rearview mirror but I miss the sophistication and defined social etiquette in my early days of ocean travel. I still haven't figured out when Gen X or the Millenials decide to "dress up." Although they have certainly taken their morals and our traditions for weddings, multiplied the ceremony to a linear exponential of 10, and made a wedding a bit of a short-film Hollywood presentation. Harumph!

 

In The Last Voyage, did the moviemakers pretend to blow up the ship or set fire to it? I have a vague memory of the movie but don't remember the scripted end of Ile de France.

 

Ruby

 

It is the same thing with school proms. In my day, we had the event in the school auditorium, then my date and I, and a few other couples, went to another student's home where we stayed up all night talking and playing games, and then had a nice breakfast at the dining room table when the sun rose. We then went home. Nowadays, school proms seem to be super-fancy and expensive, with limousines and fancy hotels involved.

 

In The Last Voyage, the story involved a boiler room fire which caused the steam gauge to be locked at a dangerous level, soon resulting in a boiler explosion. Water filled the boiler room, causing the ship to tilt forward. The weight of the water against the forward bulkhead eventually caused that bulkhead to collapse, and the ship sank even further at the bow. That caused a build-up of gases in the forward hatch, which exploded and blasted out the hatch cover. Water poured into the hatch and hastened the sinking.

 

I hope that I have not caused Marion and Barry to cancel their cruise! :D

 

The film-makers were allowed to cause damage to the Ile de France (named Claridon in the movie) because she was headed to the scrap yard afterwards anyway.

 

Donald.

[Saga Ruby]

That caused a build-up of gases in the forward hatch, which exploded and blasted out the hatch cover. Water poured into the hatch and hastened the sinking. The film-makers were allowed to cause damage to the Ile de France (named Claridon in the movie) because she was headed to the scrap yard afterwards anyway. Donald.

 

To what extent did the "Claridon" sink onscreen? Do we know where the sinking of the ship was filmed? Maybe offshore from the breakers beach?

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

To what extent did the "Claridon" sink onscreen? Do we know where the sinking of the ship was filmed? Maybe offshore from the breakers beach?

 

Ruby

 

Ile de France was sold to a Japanese scrapyard, and the film was almost entirely done in the Sea of Japan off the coast of Osaka. The ship was towed to shallow waters, where the forward compartments were flooded to make it appear as if she was sinking by the bow. The stern rose, but did not show the propellers above the water.

 

In later scenes, through trick photography, the ship appeared to sink to its boat deck. Because there were too many poisonous jellyfish in the Sea of Japan, the final lifeboat scene was filmed in Santa Monica, California.

 

French Line did not want the scrapyard to rent the ship to MGM for use in the film, but relented when the studio agreed not to identify the ship by its original name in any publicity release.

 

Donald.

[Conte Di Savoia]

You Tube has several scenes from the movie on line.

Here is one with the credits. I like it because it features some interior shots of the ship. What a magnificent dining room!!

 

I heard that the French Line was furious that the breaker used their ship for this movie and when Liberte went to the breakers in La Spezia in 1962 that they wrote into the contract that the ship could not be used in a similar way.

 

On our recent voyage to the North Cape I had the good fortune of meeting a lady whose father had been the Director General for the French Line in North America. She had crossed the Atlantic on Ile De France (her personal favorite) as well as Normandie and Liberte. It is very rare indeed to meet people who have sailed on those great ships.

[Host Sharon]

ships cat - Where do you stand on your book? Still writing furiously or off to the publishers? Are you getting excited about your upcoming voyage or just weary for the moment?

 

Ruby

 

 

Fran I would love to have come to see you but although close by Australian standards I am sure (and prob. US standards too) I am three hours away by car and sadly Tuesdays I am at work! I hope you have a wonderful trip.

 

Ruby - we are down to our last week and furiously scribbling captions - but the main text and all the photos are done. The crew have been wonderful every time I email with yet another query to go on a caption! Last evening I had the Chief Engineer emailing the bridge officers to answer one query while the executive purser had the Deputy Captain have the ship's bell polished and someone take another photo as when we were on board for photography it looked very unloved and I think they were a bit embarrassed. Although it has been stressful and rushed I will be sad to complete it.

 

However - then I will be able to start thinking about Queen Elizabeth I hope. Just been told I need more knee surgery and said well it will have to be after the cruise!!

Edited August 20, 2010 by ships cat

[Saga Ruby]

Ile de France was sold to a Japanese scrapyard, and the film was almost entirely done in the Sea of Japan off the coast of Osaka. Because there were too many poisonous jellyfish in the Sea of Japan, the final lifeboat scene was filmed in Santa Monica, California.

Donald.

 

Thanks to both of you for the comments and the research. I keep coming back to the "too many poisonous jellyfish" factoid. I'll bet the actors were relieved to do the final scene in CA.

 

I heard that the French Line was furious that the breaker used their ship for this movie and when Liberte went to the breakers in La Spezia in 1962 that they wrote into the contract that the ship could not be used in a similar way.

 

It didn't occur to me that ownership of a liner would be handed over to the breakers company before the final voyage to the scrapyard. Which brings up an earlier question - why did Saga Rose do a timestep in place off the coast of Gibraltar for so long? Did Saga Cruises park her there while negotiations to scrap her were ongoing? Was she being stripped of anything of value before a transfer of ownership or waiting for bids to be accepted?

 

Ruby

[Conte Di Savoia]

Which brings up an earlier question - why did Saga Rose do a timestep in place off the coast of Gibraltar for so long? Did Saga Cruises park her there while negotiations to scrap her were ongoing? Was she being stripped of anything of value before a transfer of ownership or waiting for bids to be accepted?

 

Ruby

Well, we don't really know what happened all those months off the Spanish coast punctuated with occasional docking in Gibraltar. The rumor was that Saga was in negotiations to sell her to Classic Cruises International, a company which sails some classic older ships. Apparently those talks, if they ever existed, failed sealing her fate. I think it unlikely that anything else was taken off her. Hopefully the line removed the Stephen Card paintings which were aboard. On one of her stops in Gibraltar they reportedly replaced an anchor....a strange expense for a ship headed for the breakers.

[Saga Ruby]

On one of her stops in Gibraltar they reportedly replaced an anchor....a strange expense for a ship headed for the breakers.

 

My mind is running amuck about replacing the anchor. Was it bought by a sentimental Saga Rose devotee, did a Saga Captain want it as a yard decoration, was the anchor missing a "tooth" and needed to be replaced at that late date? We'll never know but it certainly is fun to speculate.

 

Does anybody know what you call the teeth on an anchor? I'm sure there's a maritime vocabulary word for them.

 

Ruby

[Druke I]

You stumped me with your anchor "teeth" question, Saga Ruby.

 

I "googled" it, but did not come up with the answer. Different anchors have different designs, and some have a component called a "spade", which digs into the ocean floor to hold the anchor, but I don't think that is what you were asking about.

[Conte Di Savoia]

My mind is running amuck about replacing the anchor. Was it bought by a sentimental Saga Rose devotee, did a Saga Captain want it as a yard decoration, was the anchor missing a "tooth" and needed to be replaced at that late date? We'll never know but it certainly is fun to speculate.

 

Does anybody know what you call the teeth on an anchor? I'm sure there's a maritime vocabulary word for them.

 

Ruby

 

Here is a site which dissects the anatomy of an anchor. There are eyes, shanks, crowns, arms and palms, but no teeth!

[Saga Ruby]

Thanks for the information. I was intrigued with the diagram of the various parts of an anchor whose vocabulary seems to include many body parts such as eye, palm, arm, and throat, amongst others. My thanks to the Trustees of Indiana University for making that diagram available on the Web; however, with Indiana being a landlocked state, one wonders why or how that happened. But we won't go there.

 

I like the stock which joins together with the spade to help effect the "digging in" of an anchor's fluke. So, of course, I have questions:

 

What do the apartment barges do for actual anchorage? I assume the anchors on their bows are merely decorative as I cannot imagine trying to keep a megaship in place with arms and flukes.

 

Does the "of the seas" tonnage simply use their engines to remain in place when they are tendering off shore? Is there an anchor big enough to put in place for a safe braking effect for these monstrosities? Or do the current megaships never tender off shore?

 

I don't understand where Oasis and Epic and others of their ilk find a place at various ports to put off passengers for a day of perceived fun. Do these ships wind up being bullies at various ports or are they parked "around the block" like Celebrity's Solstice in Piraeus?

 

Ruby

[Host Sharon]

Interesting question Ruby. I would think Oasis for example will mostly have to tender? Not many berths big enough for that monstrosity, except container terminals maybe, but then they don't really want people to get off do they - they want them on board spending money! I see in May the Westerdam lost her anchor and chain in Alaska when the brakes failed :eek:

[Host Sharon]

Another solution ??

 

http://www.workingwaterfront.com/articles/While-Bar-Harbor-solves-its-mega-ship-problem-mega-berth-becomes-embroiled-in-Portlands-waterfront-debate/11886/

[Druke I]

I'm sure that those are real anchors on the megaships, and not decorations. What is not as common today is stern anchors. They seem to have pretty much disappeared.

 

As far as holding position, I'm told that ships with the azipod system do it fairly easily. I don't know the details.

 

And just look at the counts for Views - over 110,000!!!

[Saga Ruby]

Interesting question Ruby. I would think Oasis for example will mostly have to tender? Not many berths big enough for that monstrosity, except container terminals maybe, but then they don't really want people to get off do they - they want them on board spending money! I see in May the Westerdam lost her anchor and chain in Alaska when the brakes failed :eek:

 

That article about apartment barges calling at Bar Harbor with no off-loading facilities from the ship was quite interesting.

Royal Caribbean would have had to cancel because they had no lifeboats or tenders of their own," says Siemion

. "Mega-ships carrying more than 3,000 passengers would need to carry 15 to 20 tender ships. They also need a stable platform."

What does that mean about no tenders and lifeboats? Obviously the megaships have tenders and lifeboats - don't they? Colour me confused.

 

And remind me to never visit Portland ME or Bar Harbor during high tourist season. I'm dreading Alaska in September.

 

Ruby

[Host Sharon]

Perhaps they rely solely on inflatable life rafts - you know - those cylindrical containers that burst open on contact with sea water? and then shore tenders at ports? I hadn't given it much thought.

 

YEEEE HA! The Royal Princess/Artemis book was sent to the publishers today!! Now we just have to wait...and hope they like it !! Off to open something cold, wet and bubbly!!:D

[Druke I]

Good luck with that. Have a couple of bubblies - you deserve it.